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Trickster
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(04-18-2012, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

How its not working? Link or You just dont see the difference? Both arent amazing [like those from Dragon Dogma for example], but without a doubt PoE one got more detailed animation.


I havent started this discussion, but i dont like BS and false information.

Not working as in it's a static image, tried in both chrome and IE, doesn't work currently.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 03:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by VGChampion

As annoying as it is, it would make sense to talk about it in the game thread.

No, it would make sense to talk about the actual gameplay - which there will be a lot of. I still think someone should ask a mod if a RPG/HnS-comparison-thread can be made when we're nearing the D3 launch.
Moaradin
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(04-18-2012, 03:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by kvn

I was somehow meaning to defend you.

Sorry, read it as "Why does one need to express his opinion in every Diablo thread". I'm tired and I had a lot of people jump at my throat the moment I said I didn't think the Diablo 3 graphics are good.

I don't hate the game. Like I said, I liked most things about it. The graphics and art style are just not very good in my opinion.
Boken
Banned
(04-18-2012, 03:33 PM)
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I think it's pointless to look at animations in isolation. Animation is just part of the bigger question - how good does it feel to play?

That's things like, animation, feedback, sound, impact etc. Personally to me, PoE felt very unsatisfying to play. The spells had terrible sound effects, had little feedback, little impact on the enemy. Killing stuff with ice lance felt terrible. It would just travel at a consistent speed through enemies and they would barely stagger.

EDIT: @Moaradin - I don't get how someone can like the streetfighter 4 art style but dislike the diablo 3 art style. rofl
V_Arnold
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(04-18-2012, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Sorry, read it as "Why does one need to express his opinion in every Diablo thread". I'm tired and I had a lot of people jump at my throat the moment I said I didn't think the Diablo 3 graphics are good.

I don't hate the game. Like I said, I liked most things about it. The graphics and art style are just not very good in my opinion.


Please, do yourself a favor! You started the discussion with this piece:

Originally Posted by Moaradin

Was fun while it lasted. Game seemed polished and gameplay was fun but boy is this game ugly as sin lol.

Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

Please, do yourself a favor! You started the discussion with this piece:

He was just saying what he thought though... there was no reason for everyone to jump on his opinion. That's what started it all.
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Sorry, read it as "Why does one need to express his opinion in every Diablo thread". I'm tired and I had a lot of people jump at my throat the moment I said I didn't think the Diablo 3 graphics are good.

I don't hate the game. Like I said, I liked most things about it. The graphics and art style are just not very good in my opinion.

That's the point man. It's okay if you don't think it looks good. Everyone has their own tastes and opinions right? It's a completely different thing, to act like one's personal tastes and opinions are facts. That's all. I'm not saying you have or are doing this, but the thread has had a penchant for just that sort of thing since it was created.
Moaradin
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(04-18-2012, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by V_Arnold

Please, do yourself a favor! You started the discussion with this piece:

Well if I don't think the game looks good, then I guess it means it looks ugly? If I knew people were so sensitive to the topic I might have just said it was ugly in a nicer way.

Originally Posted by nacire

That's the point man. It's okay if you don't think it looks good. Everyone has their own tastes and opinions right? It's a completely different thing, to act like one's personal tastes and opinions are facts. That's all. I'm not saying you have or are doing this, but the thread has had a penchant for just that sort of thing since it was created.

I did say the art style is debatable, but the texture quality is not good. They are extremely low res and there isn't really any other way to say it.
Orgun
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(04-18-2012, 03:38 PM)
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Wow, my download speed is going at 2kb/s :(
ToD_
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(04-18-2012, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boken

I think it's pointless to look at animations in isolation. Animation is just part of the bigger question - how good does it feel to play?

That's things like, animation, feedback, sound, impact etc. Personally to me, PoE felt very unsatisfying to play. The spells had terrible sound effects, had little feedback, little impact on the enemy. Killing stuff with ice lance felt terrible. It would just travel at a consistent speed through enemies and they would barely stagger.

After playing an equal amount of Diablo 3 and PoE, this is how I feel. There are things PoE does which look very nice, and technically you may not notice such things in D3 much. But the big picture is where D3 shines - it feels so satisfying.
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

He was just saying what he thought though... there was no reason for everyone to jump on his opinion. That's what started it all.

bad opinions must be shouted down! that's what crabby said at least (or sth like it lol...)

internet justice!

(im joking)
FrontalMonk
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(04-18-2012, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

No, it would make sense to talk about the actual gameplay - which there will be a lot of. I still think someone should ask a mod if a RPG/HnS-comparison-thread can be made when we're nearing the D3 launch.

This is a great idea, just like the Battlefield/Modern Warfare thread we had a few months back. Just a general garbage thread, like "Bitch about your pretty colors here".
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 03:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Well if I don't think the game looks good, then I guess it means it looks ugly? If I knew people were so sensitive to the topic I might have just said it was ugly in a nicer way.



I did say the art style is debatable, but the texture quality is not good. They are extremely low res and there isn't really any other way to say it.


So because a texture is low res it's bad? The same artist paints those textures that paints larger textures. Texture resolution was chosen based on viewer distance. While I'll agree on this point, I too would have liked the character textures to be one step up in resolution, I don't think that qualifies them as "bad".
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:43 PM)
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beta maintenance is delayed till 11am pdt :(
Moaradin
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(04-18-2012, 03:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by nacire

So because a texture is low res it's bad?

Yes. When they are extremely low res like the Diablo3 character models, they get very blurry and it's a very visually unappealing.
Last edited by Moaradin; 04-18-2012 at 03:47 PM.
FrontalMonk
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(04-18-2012, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Well if I don't think the game looks good, then I guess it means it looks ugly? If I knew people were so sensitive to the topic I might have just said it was ugly in a nicer way.



I did say the art style is debatable, but the texture quality is not good. They are extremely low res and there isn't really any other way to say it.

This kinda reminds me of the image that spread around the net of a scene in MGS4 where the wall texture (or maybe the sandbags?) was pretty low res, and everyone mocked it, saying "omg MGS4 looks like crap now lol"
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 03:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

WoW got new renderer and overhauled assets for every region, Diablo 2 got new resolution support and upscaling in window mode, great comparison indeed ...
What about Warcraft 3 upgrades? You know, there werent any.


How its not working? Link or You just dont see the difference? Both arent amazing [like those from Dragon Dogma for example], but without a doubt PoE one got more detailed animation. Calling animation shit when one has detailed hand animation that reach quicker and other dont, its simple bs.


I havent started this discussion, but i dont like BS and false informations.


--edit--
Link is fixed.

You are the king of BS and false information man. Your opinions are not fact. I'm fine with your opinion of PoE and Diablo III, but man, seriously. Quit preaching your drivel down everyone's throat in every PoE/D3 thread like you know something they don't. Just stop already. Please?
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:47 PM)
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again, i haven't noticed any low res textures at 1080p.

there's plenty of stylized/painted-look textures, but no, they don't look low-res
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Yes.

I see.
KKRT00
Member
(04-18-2012, 03:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by nacire

I'll just share this again for anyone who may have missed it. It's the entire GDC presentation "The Art of Diablo III" in its entirety including slides.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1015306/The-Art-of-Diablo

What I find hilarious, is that many of the arguments made regarding the look of Diablo 3, especially when compared to PoE, is that Blizzard is some how incapable of producing what people are considering technically superior graphical techniques. In fact, there isn't one decision regarding Diablo 3's graphical approach that wasn't an extremely calculated decision be it technical or artistic.

Have you ever looked at the list of those employed at Blizzard? It's a veritable who's who of the industry's best artists, programmers, animators, etc. Still think Blizzard is incapable of creating what you think is superior art or graphical techniques? If so, I think you may be thinking a little naively.

So the archer in PoE pulls an arrow and notches it while in D3 the demon hunter does not. Wow, Blizzard's art department must be full of a bunch of inadequate animators. Seriously? Do you think this is a huge priority for Blizzard in the bigger scope of things right now? Never mind that the Ranger in PoE has a static quiver that never moves while the demon hunter has a huge array of quivers located in different positions based on the armor worn. Never mind that in the second GIF of the PoE animation examples the Ranger actually has the arrow backwards in her hand and it instantly flips in the right direction. Think priority and scope here. I mean PoE isn't going to have both genders for each class. Is it because they are incapable? No, they just don't have the resources for it at the moment. Again, priority and scope.

Do you really think Blizzard is incapable of producing excessively noisy textures with an overblown specular map so that the normal maps look more pronounced? While you may see technical achievement, I see poor decisions and rookie mistakes. Visually, while the lighting in the caves with spec and normal maps make look cool, there is a lot of immaturity in regards to screen readability when everything is equally high detailed and viewed from a distance.

In the end I could really give two fucks which game your going to play, but jesus christ can we just end with all of the idiocy being stated as if it were some fact?

And yes, at this point...I'm mad bro!

-ps- This is the gif I was referring to. It came from the other D3 bashing thread.

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/illGQ6swNPpKl.gif[IMG]

This arrow thing is a bug, as You can see it happened after Rain of Arrow animation ended and i recorded it day after they put this skill into the beta.

About programmers they still havent fixef stuttering and performance isnt great, so i dont know how its world class team.
I watched this Art Panel, nothing amazing i would add.
I understand why they went with this tech for art route, but its not like its great, its low res, low poly and have bad lighting and lighting interaction with characters, so everything that can be easily fixed or put for as high setting. There isnt much details there either, except for details on background art that is mostly sprite based.

Originally Posted by nacire

You are the king of BS and false information man. Your opinions are not fact. I'm fine with your opinion of PoE and Diablo III, but man, seriously. Quit preaching your drivel down everyone's throat in every PoE/D3 thread like you know something they don't. Just stop already. Please?

If someone calls animation shit in one game and great in other game and its not true [You cant deny that there is more keyframe information in PoE animation in comparison to D3] i call it BS. You can dislike animation for visual style or w/e, but its not shit by any means.
Last edited by KKRT00; 04-18-2012 at 03:55 PM.
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:49 PM)
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is this thread now about how some random arpg or the diablo 3 fucking beta?
FrontalMonk
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(04-18-2012, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

This arrow thing is a bug, as You can see it happened after Rain of Arrow animation ended and i recorded it day after they put this skill into the beta.

About programmers they still havent fixes stuttering and performance isnt great, so i dont know how its world class team.
I watched this Art Panel, nothing amazing i would add.
I understand why they went with this tech for art route, but its not like it great, its low res, low poly and have bad lighting and lighting interaction with characters, everything that can be easily fixed or put for as high setting. There isnt much details there either, except for details on background art that is mostly sprite based.

can I just say "No, you're wrong", put IMO before or after it, and call it a day?
Trickster
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(04-18-2012, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by sazzy

again, i haven't noticed any low res textures at 1080p.

there's plenty of stylized/painted-look textures, but no, they don't look low-res

To be fair, the character models in D3 are actually quite ugly. The thing is though, when I play the beta, I never notice it due to the distance the game is played at + the various effects going on all the time. Yes you will notice the low res character models if you zoom in and actively look for it. But I've never thought the game looked bad while just playing it like I'm supposed to.
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

This arrow thing is a bug, as You can see it happened after Rain of Arrow animation ended and i recorded it day after they put this skill into the beta.

About programmers they still havent fixes stuttering and performance isnt great, so i dont know how its world class team.
I watched this Art Panel, nothing amazing i would add.
I understand why they went with this tech for art route, but its not like it great, its low res, low poly and have bad lighting and lighting interaction with characters, everything that can be easily fixed or put for as high setting. There isnt much details there either, except for details on background art that is mostly sprite based.

/killitwithfire.jpg
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 03:54 PM)
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Calm down everyone, seriously.

Let's just completely ignore that this shit was brought up.


Who wants to play with me, right this instant? PM me your Battle.tag, let's fucking slay some demons.

edit: are you shitting me? Maintenance... great job ruining my time to shine, Blizzard!
Boken
Banned
(04-18-2012, 03:54 PM)
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Christ, just watch that gif. You can't actually tell that Ice lance is hitting the monster at all.
sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 03:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Trickster

To be fair, the character models in D3 are actually quite ugly. The thing is though, when I play the beta, I never notice it due to the distance the game is played at + the various effects going on all the time. Yes you will notice the low res character models if you zoom in and actively look for it. But I've never thought the game looked bad while just playing it like I'm supposed to.

i said this before:

they have to make sure the models are optimal for a wide range of machines, unlike the other graphics effects which can be turned on/off/etc.

they could've made several models for a range of machines, in increasing poly count, but would have to tune the gear to fit all those models. massive amount of time and work.

instead they used that time to make the art/sound/presentation/AND MOST IMPORTANTLY GAMEPLAY fantastic.
Raide
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(04-18-2012, 03:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

Calm down everyone, seriously.

Let's just completely ignore that this shit was brought up.


Who wants to play with me, right this instant? PM me your Battle.tag, let's fucking slay some demons.

edit: are you shitting me? Maintenance... great job ruining my time to shine, Blizzard!

If I get it installed and can access it, I will be Monk-punch Healing you.
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 03:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

If someone calls animation shit in one game and great in other game and its not true [You cant deny that there is more keyframe information in PoE animation in comparison to D3] i call it BS. You can dislike animation for visual style or w/e, but its not shit by any means.

Here is your problem. You think just because it has more keyframes that it's a better animation. And I would in turn pose the second bolded statement back at you.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

If I get it installed and can access it, I will be Monk-punch Healing you.

XD You're still gonna be playing that punching class, aren't you? You've been saying this for (what seems to be) YEARS now :lol
Raide
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(04-18-2012, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

XD You're still gonna be playing that punching class, aren't you? You've been saying this for (what seems to be) YEARS now :lol

Even if it utterly sucks and I can be out DPS'd by a wooden plank. :D
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

Even if it utterly sucks and I can be out DPS'd by a wooden plank. :D

I love your dedication :3 Did you get the sigil of the week? It's monk this time around!

http://reveal.diablo3.com/en_US/mark_of_valor/#!/create
Raide
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(04-18-2012, 04:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

I love your dedication :3 Did you get the sigil of the week? It's monk this time around!

http://reveal.diablo3.com/en_US/mark_of_valor/#!/create

What other game lets you punch healing goodness into people? :D

Yeah, got mine yesterday I think. I missed the first one since the site was hammered but I will pick that up later on.
DTKT
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(04-18-2012, 04:03 PM)
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Soooo.

Does it still work? :D
Artanisix
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(04-18-2012, 04:03 PM)
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POE's animations are AWFUL. They have no weight to them.
Twinduct
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(04-18-2012, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

What other game lets you punch healing goodness into people? :D

Yeah, got mine yesterday I think. I missed the first one since the site was hammered but I will pick that up later on.

I did all three so far, but only got confirmation mails for the last two. They best not have taken away my barb sigil!
Mengy
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(04-18-2012, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

About programmers they still havent fixef stuttering and performance isnt great, so i dont know how its world class team.
I watched this Art Panel, nothing amazing i would add.
I understand why they went with this tech for art route, but its not like its great, its low res, low poly and have bad lighting and lighting interaction with characters, so everything that can be easily fixed or put for as high setting. There isnt much details there either, except for details on background art that is mostly sprite based.

If someone calls animation shit in one game and great in other game and its not true [You cant deny that there is more keyframe information in PoE animation in comparison to D3] i call it BS. You can dislike animation for visual style or w/e, but its not shit by any means.


I'm curious KKRT00, and this is a serious question, do you feel that graphics are more important than gameplay? Is the technical graphics design of a game engine more important to you than how the game actually plays? And do "bad" or outdated graphics engines detract from a gameplay experience for you?
Artadius
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(04-18-2012, 04:08 PM)
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And now for something completely different.

sazzy
pronounced "sassy"
(04-18-2012, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Artadius

And now for something completely different.

the resemblance is uncanny
Salz01
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(04-18-2012, 04:17 PM)
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I find myself looking more where the footprints are. Unless they were photoshopped out.
Tacitus_
Banned
(04-18-2012, 04:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Sorry, read it as "Why does one need to express his opinion in every Diablo thread". I'm tired and I had a lot of people jump at my throat the moment I said I didn't think the Diablo 3 graphics are good.

I don't hate the game. Like I said, I liked most things about it. The graphics and art style are just not very good in my opinion.

Really, brah?

Originally Posted by Moaradin

Torchlight 2 at least looks like it's predecessor. The artstyle of Diablo 3 is shit, but that's not even half of it's problems. Blizzard has dumbed down and removed so many features that were key to Diablo 2, and also introducing some very stupid ideas. To top it all off, you got to deal with the shit that is the new battle.net.

Torchlight 2 has offline, lan, modding and doesn't have a $60 pricetag.

Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Salz01

I find myself looking more where the footprints are. Unless they were photoshopped out.

She had to stand at that place during a sandstorm!
Artadius
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(04-18-2012, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshichan

She had to stand at that place during a sandstorm!

She made the sandstorm!
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(04-18-2012, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Artadius

She made the sandstorm!

Damn, is that how it acts with the Crimson-rune?!
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mengy

I'm curious KKRT00, and this is a serious question, do you feel that graphics are more important than gameplay? Is the technical graphics design of a game engine more important to you than how the game actually plays? And do "bad" or outdated graphics engines detract from a gameplay experience for you?

What's funny is that I'm very susceptible to this very thing and I find it often hard to muster my way through older games. But not once while playing the Diablo 3 beta since Sept. have I felt like anything graphically or artistically was "bad" or outdated. Again, I agree the character textures could be a bit higher, but that's mainly due to the ability to zoom in and inspect the art at a closer distance and the character selection menu where your characters are also presented at a closer viewing distance. The textures aren't bad, they just don't hold up at that distance.
Boken
Banned
(04-18-2012, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tacitus_

Really, brah?

The guy says he hates the D3 art style and yet he likes Streetfigher 4
Mengy
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(04-18-2012, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by nacire

What's funny is that I'm very susceptible to this very thing and I find it often hard to muster my way through older games. But not once while playing the Diablo 3 beta since Sept. have I felt like anything graphically or artistically was "bad" or outdated. Again, I agree the character textures could be a bit higher, but that's mainly due to the ability to zoom in and inspect the art at a closer distance and the character selection menu where your characters are also presented at a closer viewing distance. The textures aren't bad, they just don't hold up at that distance.

As a rule I'm not susceptible to it. I play games like Minecraft, Master of Magic, Longbow 2.0, and Stone Soup (tiled) and don't care about how "inferior" they are graphically. I still play lots of older games that most would consider hard to look at today. I find them fun and entertaining. And yet I admit that when I first got into the Diablo III beta I was let down by the graphics. It's not that the blurry textures or low res models bothered me, it's that the art style detour from Diablo II let me down a bit. But then Nvidia updated their drivers and the game suddenly looked much better to me. It's still low res in places and I still disagree with the art style somewhat, but the game plays so incredibly well that I simply don't really care that much. It's fun and satisfying.

But KKRT00 seems to genuinely hate D3 simply because it's not up to 2012 video game graphics standards. It's not DX11 feature rich and doesn't require the highest end PC to play, and because of that he seems to be content to dismiss the entire game. He is almost on a crusade to single handily make D3 be a commercial flop. I can't understand that narrow view of gaming, it's like without superior graphics everything else in D3 is worthless. Maybe he is on the PoE development team?
forrest
formerly nacire
(04-18-2012, 04:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mengy

As a rule I'm not susceptible to it. I play games like Minecraft, Master of Magic, Longbow 2.0, and Stone Soup (tiled) and don't care about how "inferior" they are graphically. I still play lots of older games that most would consider hard to look at today. I find them fun and entertaining. And yet I admit that when I first got into the Diablo III beta I was let down by the graphics. It's not that the blurry textures or low res models bothered me, it's that the art style detour from Diablo II let me down a bit. But then Nvidia updated their drivers and the game suddenly looked much better to me. It's still low res in places and I still disagree with the art style somewhat, but the game plays so incredibly well that I simply don't really care that much. It's fun and satisfying.

But KKRT00 seems to genuinely hate D3 simply because it's not up to 2012 video game graphics standards. It's not DX11 feature rich and doesn't require the highest end PC to play, and because of that he seems to be content to dismiss the entire game. He is almost on a crusade to single handily make D3 be a commercial flop. I can't understand that narrow view of gaming, it's like without superior graphics everything else in D3 is worthless. Maybe he is on the PoE development team?

Well Minecraft doesn't bother me as it's an intentional decision and works well for the aesthetics of the game. Something like 3d Dot Heroes, is another example of something that doesn't bother me, but could be considered outdated in presentation. Diablo 2 does bother me though, as it just feels so dated to me. I still have fun playing it, but it definitely is distracting for me.

As far as the Diablo 3 art discussion I really do just try to keep my mouth shut and I've avoided the thead about D2 like the plague, but sometimes I just get fed up with the ridiculousness of some of the opinions stated as fact. This morning was one of those times.
Fallout-NL
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(04-18-2012, 05:36 PM)
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Yeah, well. Even the though the majority here seems to love the graphics. Dissidents should still be able to come here and voice their disappointment. I hate circle-jerk threads.


As for myself, I agree with Mengy on the look of the game:

Originally Posted by Mengy

It's not that the blurry textures or low res models bothered me, it's that the art style detour from Diablo II let me down a bit.

ToD_
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(04-18-2012, 05:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fallout-NL

Yeah, well. Even the though the majority here seems to love the graphics. Dissidents should still be able to come here and voice their disappointment. I hate circle-jerk threads.


As for myself, I agree with Mengy on the look of the game:

I agree. I was disappointed as well with the departure from the Diablo 2 look. After playing the beta for a while, though, I've come to appreciate the overall look and feel of Diablo 3. It doesn't make up for the art style change but I'm not so bothered by it anymore. Hopefully it will grow on those who aren't completely sold at the moment.

I think it's a valid concern and worth discussing.

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