[LOCK]

NC resident and I will vote against this.

NC is a great state though. It's politics is weird however, locally most people are democratic but nationally most people vote Republican. Very odd.

[Angelus Errare]

I thought South Carolina was the crazy Carolina? Let me guess. S.C. already has a ban.

Man the Carolinas in general are crazy as hell.

South Carolina has Confederate Day as a state holiday ffs....and that day brings out the crazies like fuck. I don't even leave my place on that day, ugh can't wait to leave. Only a few more months until I'm back in modern society.

[RobotChant]

Waste of time and money. When Perry or Romney become president, we won't even have to worry about this state constitution bullshit anymore.

[Atramental]

I thought South Carolina was the crazy Carolina? Let me guess. S.C. already has a ban.

Welcome to Jesus land. Can't wait to get the fuck out.

[Lead Based Paint]

Welcome to Jesus land. Can't wait to get the fuck out.

I see I am not the only with this sentiment.

This makes me happy.

[Nairume]

What makes this even worse is that they are wasting time and money on shit like this and banning flavored tobacco when the state is in a fucking dire state financially and the education system is taking a gigantic hit because of it.

When I graduated and moved back out of the state, they had already completely cut the entire travel budget for the entire university system. I shudder to think what other cutbacks were made while these idiots have been attacking their rainbow colored windmills.

[Koomaster]

“If people reject it and say, ‘no, we don’t want this in the constitution,’ then I’ll live with it,” Forrester said, adding he would campaign at the state’s churches for its passage. He said the bill wasn’t designed to single out gays and lesbians. “This wasn’t a slap in the face at them,” he added. “It was just something I thought we needed to do to continue to have a strong family structure here in North Carolina.”

Isn't the bill specifically designed to single out gays and lesbians? Also how does this somehow help 'strong family structure'. Families aren't only your 1950's era media perpetrated bullshit. Families come in all shapes/sizes/genders/colors; your heaping of definitions on what a family and marriage should be are only hurting those that don't fit your narrow viewpoint.

Do these ignorant people even understand what they are saying? They should choke on their own words.

[Dragon]

Living in Charlotte, I was proud of the state when they voted for Obama. But slowly I've realized over the past few years that that's been an aberration. There are plenty of minorities in Charlotte but as you get further out it becomes a total white-wash. Compared to NYC where I moved from, Charlotte has almost no gays. And as such, people here don't have experience interacting with gay people. Which causes them to completely take what the Bible says literally. It's truly unfortunate because I love the city otherwise.

I'll be voting against banning gay marriage. It's unconstitutional and just plain dumb.

[Gaborn]

I'm going to choose to believe that there are enough decent people in North Carolina to defeat this.

And you may be right.

[Nairume]

Living in Charlotte, I was proud of the state when they voted for Obama. But slowly I've realized over the past few years that that's been an aberration. There are plenty of minorities in Charlotte but as you get further out it becomes a total white-wash. Compared to NYC where I moved from, Charlotte has almost no gays. And as such, people here don't have experience interacting with gay people. Which causes them to completely take what the Bible says literally. It's truly unfortunate because I love the city otherwise. I'll be voting against banning gay marriage. It's unconstitutional and just plain dumb.

At least Charlotte is entirely alone in the state. Essentially, the cities in the Triangle and any of the ones with a UNC associated campus will be super cool and relatively progressive places to live. It's just when you get far enough from these places where you will get small towns that will be host to crazy people like the group that hosted a book burning for any bible that wasn't the KJV.

[Conciliator]

And you may be right.

Wow! That's good news...I was about to post that if California wouldn't pass it, NC sure ain't...but you never know.

It sucks for the people who want to get married now, but I'm not that worried about it in the long run. Republicans in office are basically only opposing gay marriage on technicalities now, and most of them avoid talking about it whenever possible. Even in my SC downtown office, where gay jokes are common, actual talk about the politics of gay marriage is basically taboo. We are on the right track without a doubt.

And nothing could possibly go wrong.

[truly101]

I thought rural NC was inundated with porcine excrement.

only the eastern part.

[alstein]

And you may be right.

They didn't try iit before cause they were afraid of trying it during a general election. Thank the Tea Party for making it during a primary (Tea Party ain't stupid, they know if they did it in November, a lot of folks who hate gay marriage bans are gonna come out , and they'd be voting against the Tea Party)

If you think NC is crazy, you haven't live in SC or Mississippi. I preferred Cali, but NC is probably the best of the Southern States.

[truly101]

They didn't try iit before cause they were afraid of trying it during a general election. Thank the Tea Party for making it during a primary (Tea Party ain't stupid, they know if they did it in November, a lot of folks who hate gay marriage bans are gonna come out , and they'd be voting against the Tea Party) If you think NC is crazy, you haven't live in SC or Mississippi. I preferred Cali, but NC is probably the best of the Southern States.

NC's problem is not that there are a ton of fundie crazies dictating the agenda. Its that there are few fundie crazies trying to dictate the agenda and a ton of people who don't give enough of a shit to stop them. You do have a lot of the general population that will go whatever the current political wind blows, but I'd imagine thats a problem for all 50 states.

I personally don't want any rules or amendments based on superfluous religious policy. In the old testement, divorce was far more frowned upon than homosexuality. In fact next time one of these jowly tea party fundies say they're raising this issue to create a more stable family environment, simply ask them why they don't ban divorce, particularly the no fault divorce? We have way more stats on the negative effects of divorce on a family vs a gay or lesbian family. Kids need stability, that means having the same parents for their childhood, whether thats mom & dad, or two moms or two dads.

[cajunator]

I used to be against same-sex marriage, however I changed my mind. I firmly believe that ALL persons have an equal right to be miserable.

[FnordChan]

I love North Carolina and it pains me to see her legislators doing stupid, useless shit like this when we have so many serious problems to cope with right now. And, as mentioned earlier, putting the issue on the ballot during the primaries makes it even more likely this nonsense is going to pass. Argh.

FnordChan

[megashock5]

"Hey, why should he get to marry a dude? I didn't get to marry a dude!"

[magicstop]

NC resident here, and I will be voting against this, as will all of my acquaintances.

[Talamius]

NC Resident voting against. I think you guys are going to be surprised at how hard this gets crushed. Both businesses and the general population are pissed and there's already been some backtracking.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/...amendment.html

[alstein]

NC Resident voting against. I think you guys are going to be surprised at how hard this gets crushed. Both businesses and the general population are pissed and there's already been some backtracking. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/...amendment.html

Honestly, I think it passes because it's being done in the primary. This means that all of your right-wing loons will be out in force.

the best thing that could happen is for the Republican nomination to be a lock by May, so Republicans don't feel a need to show up.

Then again, the question is would Independent liberals (there's no reason not to be registered ind in NC with open primaries) want to vote against Perry in May if Romney is still alive. There were Republicans in 2008 who registered Independent and voted in the Dem primary (usually for Obama, who they felt was the weaker candidate, admittedly I did that also)*

Honestly, I expect this to win, but there's a chance it won't, and I sure as hell will also be voting against it.


*I ended up voting for Obama in the general election due to Palin, and haven't voted for Republican since due to the Tea Party.

[lawblob]

It boggle my mind there are still any attorneys who can in good conscious believe that this is at all Constitutional. Even under rational basis scrutiny, how is this Constitutional!?!?

[DiscoShark]

Some of the city areas like Greensboro, Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham/Chapel Hill, Asheville and Wilmington tend to be a little more liberal in their politics but its unlikely they will be able to overturn the ignorant majority. This is just another in a long line of useless distractions that crop up in upcoming election years, so people won't pay attention to shit the government really needs to fix, and to get overly emotional about an issue that should be viewed with logic.

Charlotte, NC resident here. From my experience having gone through my senior year in highschool and my second semester of college in this state, liberal leaning or not, it seems that a fairly large fraction of young people are still very much against the legalization of gay marriage. The heart of the problem is that this is undoubtedly a bible belt state and teachings such as gay marriage is against the bible influences a large sector of political leanings on the issue.

As a person who will be voting very much in opposition of this measure, I'd be very surprised if this didn't end up passing regardless.

[Count Dookkake]

You guys have to beat this, not only for freedom, but also for the tears this will generate in the "Bible Belt." Every time the gays win, it's so much fun to crow about the good news here in Tulsa. Do t for the lols.

[JGS]

I'm confused on this:

“If people reject it and say, ‘no, we don’t want this in the constitution,’ then I’ll live with it,” Forrester said, adding he would campaign at the state’s churches for its passage. He said the bill wasn’t designed to single out gays and lesbians.

I'm supposed to be confused right?

Also, would a national challenge invalidate the state laws that ban it? After all, if most if the US bans gay marriage as it is, it barely matters what NC does until the country is on the same page- especially since gay people can't get married in the state already by the definition they have for marriage.

[gutter_trash]

so the majority will pronounce their say on the rights of a minority

[Stumpokapow]

Also, would a national challenge invalidate the state laws that ban it? After all, if most if the US bans gay marriage as it is, it barely matters what NC does until the country is on the same page- especially since gay people can't get married in the state already by the definition they have for marriage.

The three ways in which the feds could override states:
1) Amend the US federal constitution to explicitly require legal recognition of same-sex marriage

2) Amend the US federal constitution to explicitly forbid same-sex marriage

3) A court finds that some existing clause in the US federal constitution explicitly requires legal recognition of same-sex marriage.

[Wilsongt]

STOP TAXING US SO MUCH! SMALLER GOVERNMENT! DON'T TELL US WE HAVE TO VACCINATE! DON'T TELL US HOW TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN! GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY!

...PROTECT OUR MARRIAGE!

I need to get the FUCK out of the South. Like... yesterday.

[richiek]

NC resident and I will vote against this. NC is a great state though. It's politics is weird however, locally most people are democratic but nationally most people vote Republican. Very odd.

Yeah, I thought NC was becoming more liberal due to more educated folks moving into the Research Triangle.

[JGS]

The three ways in which the feds could override states: 1) Amend the US federal constitution to explicitly require legal recognition of same-sex marriage 2) Amend the US federal constitution to explicitly forbid same-sex marriage 3) A court finds that some existing clause in the US federal constitution explicitly requires legal recognition of same-sex marriage.

So really 3 would be the only option at this point since neither party is gung-ho on acknowledging same sex marriage and 1 party isn't keen on forbidding it altogether.

[Gaborn]

so the majority will pronounce their say on the rights of a minority

And that MIGHT be a good thing in this case, as I pointed out earlier

A majority of North Carolinians oppose same-sex marriage but would also vote down a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman, a new Public Policy Polling (PPP) survey finds. Fifty-five percent of respondents said they would reject changing the constitution to prohibit gays and lesbians from marrying, which could come to a vote in the House as early as next week, including 63 percent of Democrats, 52 percent of independents, and even a plurality — 47 percent — of Republicans. PPP explains that North Carolinians oppose the measure because they generally “favor of gay couples receiving the same legal rights as married couples do”: When given the option of civil unions, 29% want them, and a quarter still favor full marriage rights, for 54% in support of legal equality, similar to the 55% who oppose the amendment. That includes 63% of independents and 68% of Democrats. “It’s pretty simple: North Carolinians don’t support gay marriage but they also don’t think this constitutional amendment is necessary,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling. “And they also think this particular proposal goes too far by targeting civil unions, which many voters in the state support.”

[Stumpokapow]

And that MIGHT be a good thing in this case, as I pointed out earlier

Well, the outcome might be acceptable, but his point was that Democracy doesn't extend to voting for or against basic human rights regardless of the outcome, and I agree. The whole reason why countries have constitutional documents and supermajority-to-overrule rights charters is because 50%+1 is not good enough to take away rights.

[blackwatchplad]

Alot of people here are really against this, I don't see how they could go through with this.
I'm just scared the sensible people wont be able to outweigh the moronic masses.

It's really hard to find decent people here, but some people are quite nice here.
Not everyone that is against it is a dirty hillbilly (a lot are though) Many are just really dumb and hateful people that do kind if shit like this out of spite. I've seen several anti-same sex marriage rallies near the small place where i live. It's nothing but dumbasses spouting shit. ..If i wanted that i would follow a septic tank cleaner around all day.

I've decided to stay here long enough to vote against this and then get the hell out of here.
But I still can't believe that they are wasting time on this, just legalize it and get on to more important things.

[Gaborn]

Well, the outcome might be acceptable, but his point was that Democracy doesn't extend to voting for or against basic human rights regardless of the outcome, and I agree. The whole reason why countries have constitutional documents and supermajority-to-overrule rights charters is because 50%+1 is not good enough to take away rights.

Sure, and I agree with you and him entirely. I'm just saying that usually when you hear that phrase it's not just because the notion of the majority voting on whether or not to further restrict a minority's basic rights is detestable, it's that usually this has already occurred or seems to not be in any doubt that it will happen - which is detestable. This is notable because this is one of the relatively few times proposed discrimination that will make it as far as the ballot has a realistic (though obviously still uncertain given how early it is) chance of being REJECTED by the people. That's a HUGE sea change.

You're right though, in all honesty I should have replied to a different post because of the connotation.

[plasticpassion]

I moved out of NC mostly because of the conservatism and its being so religious. I have no doubt this will pass. There will be campaigns rallying votes all over in support of it from every fucking church on every corner in NC.

[charsace]

All these people are against gay marriage, but no one has yet to give a logical reason why? The only reason I think of is that they just hate gay people. Do so many people just hate gay people?

[Clevinger]

I'm confused on this: I'm supposed to be confused right?

Yes. It's just a stupid, blatant lie. I'm sure if he punched you in the face he'd go, "Oh, I wasn't trying to hit you. I was just extending my fist into the air and it happened to go into your face."

[LosDaddie]

There's nothing that gets out the Christian vote in America like hating the gays. Not providing healthcare for the young & old, or feeding and caring for them. Nope. That's socialism, and Supply Side Jesus hated that.

Yes, this legislation is meant to get out the conservative Christian vote in 2012.

[JoeBoy101]

So glad my legislature is working on what's important.

Sarcasm, obviously.

[Count Dookkake]

All these people are against gay marriage, but no one has yet to give a logical reason why? The only reason I think of is that they just hate gay people. Do so many people just hate gay people?

I have never seen a secular reason to be against gay marriage. Nor can I conceive of one. There are many secular reasons to allow it, though.

And yes, they do hate gay people, no matter how much they try to pretty it up with that "love the sinner, hate the sin" crap.

[Gaborn]

All these people are against gay marriage, but no one has yet to give a logical reason why? The only reason I think of is that they just hate gay people. Do so many people just hate gay people?

It really depends on how you define logical. Religious reasons are not logical by their nature because they start from an assumption that you cannot be prove or disprove (that god exist and your religion is the correct choice). HOWEVER if someone is a follower of a particular religious code I don't find it necessarily illogical that they would disapprove of gay marriage, I just think they're simply wrong.

As Count says though there isn't really a secular reason to oppose marriage equality it's all religious and a large dollop of bigotry. Although I think he's wrong that they hate gay people - at least they wouldn't think they do. For them they think they're separating the "sin" as they see it from the sinner. It's sort of a "they know not what they do" scenario for some of them. Many of them ARE just haters though, but that isn't true of all.

[JGS]

All these people are against gay marriage, but no one has yet to give a logical reason why? The only reason I think of is that they just hate gay people. Do so many people just hate gay people?

Most don't hate gay people. There's no way to really explain that further without getting anecdotal ("Some of my best friends are..."), but they don't usually care one way or another about them.

They do think that marriage is a hetero endeavor since it's supposed purpose is to form a unit to have kids that are biologically your own. They get this view from their religious or cultural beliefs. Although that matters for their beliefs, from a legal standpoint, it doesn't since there are legal benefits to marriage that are not linked to kids or include adopted kids.

The only other option is to strip all rights given to married couples (Which they probably should do anyway). Otherwise, they should give legal recognition to couples in love as is the norm.

[charsace]

It really depends on how you define logical. Religious reasons are not logical by their nature because they start from an assumption that you cannot be prove or disprove (that god exist and your religion is the correct choice). HOWEVER if someone is a follower of a particular religious code I don't find it necessarily illogical that they would disapprove of gay marriage, I just think they're simply wrong. As Count says though there isn't really a secular reason to oppose marriage equality it's all religious and a large dollop of bigotry. Although I think he's wrong that they hate gay people - at least they wouldn't think they do. For them they think they're separating the "sin" as they see it from the sinner. It's sort of a "they know not what they do" scenario for some of them. Many of them ARE just haters though, but that isn't true of all.

Religion is not logical so it falls in with all other illogical answers. I wish these people would just come out and let the real reason as to why they are against gay marriage be known.

[Clevinger]

Most don't hate gay people. There's no way to really explain that further without getting anecdotal ("Some of my best friends are..."), but they don't usually care one way or another about them.

I don't agree. I think making this bigotry one of the biggest, most upfront aspects of Christianity in America could only stem from hate when there are so many other things in the Bible they could put a major focus on instead.

[neorej]

What I don't get, is how two guys getting married affects the marriage of another couple.

[JGS]

I don't agree. I think making this bigotry one of the biggest, most upfront aspects of Christianity in America could only stem from hate when there are so many other things in the Bible they could put a major focus on instead.

I said being against marriage is for religious and cultural reasons. It's not the same thing as hate imo. It's like saying Christians hate Jews because they don't believe in Jesus. Christians would still be hunting down gay people now rather than watching their talk shows if that were the case.

They don't like gay people getting married. If that defines hate to you, then you're right. I think hate is too strong of a word in that case. There's no where else to go from hate even though things could be far worse.

What I don't get, is how two guys getting married affects the marriage of another couple.

It doesn't so long as it doesn't intrude on their beliefs which no law can/should/will require.

Like most politics, the fear tactic is that if a law is passed, this requires acceptance of homosexuality which it doesn't. It just requires they get equal treatment which is totally different.

[Balphon]

What I don't get, is how two guys getting married affects the marriage of another couple.

The argument I've seen is that homosexual marriage would "erode" the significance of "traditional" marriage as a social institution.

It's an argument that makes no sense even under basic scrutiny, mind you, but there it is.

[Zekes!]

land of the free

[SmokyDave]

What I don't get, is how two guys getting married affects the marriage of another couple.

It will erode the institution of marriage!

*checks current divorce rate*

Oops, too late. Next excuse?

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It will erode the institution of marriage! *checks current divorce rate* Oops, too late. Next excuse?

Best part is for those who do family law, gay marriage means gay divorce, and gay money is just as good as straight money!


Come on North Carolina.

[neorej]

The argument I've seen is that homosexual marriage would "erode" the significance of "traditional" marriage as a social institution. It's an argument that makes no sense even under basic scrutiny, mind you, but there it is.

If that's the argument, they should ban divorce. Nothing erodes marriage, both an actual one as well as the institution, like a divorce.