[CoachKevin]

For most of the year I have been playing NES, SNES, and Genesis games, and I only have a 46" Samsung LCD. And over the last few years I have amassed about 200 carts/game tapes.

Obviously the TV doesn't do a great job upscaling the image to 480 so the image is kind of muddy.

After seeing how nice the SNES games looked in the special that Giantbomb did, I decided to look into getting an upscaler.

It looks like my only option is an XRGB-3 from Micromsoft. And then I need to get a Scart cable for my SNES to go to the XRGB-3 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-UP...ht_1077wt_1270)

The XRGB-3 is costly at $500-600, but if it made games look great on an HD tv, I might be able to justify it.

Option 2 is to buy a 27" Sony Triniton TV that will take up a bunch of room. But I can get one with a matching stand for $40.

So my question is, have you had any experiance with upscaling old consoles to an HD tv WITHOUT emulation or a Wii?

[Tain]

I don't have one myself, but I've heard very good things from people that use it to hook up stuff like a Saturn and NeoGeo to their HDTV. The main appeal, IMO, is eliminating the lag that comes with upscaling and deinterlacing, but your TV might still have lag when accepting an image at its native resolution.

I don't really trust HDTVs anymore, but if I had to use one, I'd probably be in the market for an upscaler like this.

There's another one coming out/recently released called FRAME MEISTER that I've head people talking about.

[Nuclear Muffin]

I remember hearing good things about the XRGB-2. Not sure about the 3rd version though.

[Durante]

All the information on retro game scaling you ever wanted, and more:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[Gynoug79]

I have no experience myself but this site http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ has a lot of info...strg f : "Micomsoft Family of video deinterlacers"

edit: and beaten

[gar3]

I own an XRGB-2+. To be honest, it's at its best when paired with CRTs. Hooking it up to LCDs or RP-LCDs makes text-heavy RPGs and such too jittery for my liking (due to the inherent vertical synch issues), but on a CRT it's pure sex. The nice thing about the XRGB-3 is the whole "low pass filter" that was added which eliminates the problem.

You might want to wait though and see what the upcoming Frame Meister (Flame Master) from Micomsoft might bring, though. I certainly would at this stage:

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/ceatec2011.htm

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450

[gar3]

Also, I don't know if you are aware but there's a difference between EUR SCART RGB and JPN RGB. Don't go buying SCART RGB and plugging it directly into the JPN RGB on the XRGB. You'll literally fry the port. You need either an adapter or simply buy real JPN RGB cables for your Super Fami, MegaDrive, Saturn, PSX. There's a dude on eBay who re-wires SCART for JPN RGB. Bought a MegaDrive cable off him and it works perfectly with my XRGB-2+. For the others I simply bought 'em while visiting Japan one year.

[gar3]

Triple post. No ban, please.

Go with Solaris Japan for the XRGB-3 and save $150 or so:
http://www.solarisjapan.com/categori...etCurrencyId=1


And here's the homepage of that eBay cable makin' dude I posted about before:
http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/home

[CoachKevin]

Got it. So I should probably wait for the FRAME MEISTER. Any idea when it is coming out?

In the meantime, what do you guys think about picking this up? Would run me $40:

[xemumanic]

Triple post. No ban, please. Go with Solaris Japan for the XRGB-3 and save $150 or so: http://www.solarisjapan.com/categori...etCurrencyId=1 And here's the homepage of that eBay cable makin' dude I posted about before: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/home

Yes, this is the best place to get one.

And if you don't, and get one from eBay for example, make sure the front SCART port is working, its a common issue from those who plug in the wrong region SCART and blow out the port.

[gblues]

For most of the year I have been playing NES, SNES, and Genesis games, and I only have a 46" Samsung LCD. And over the last few years I have amassed about 200 carts/game tapes. Obviously the TV doesn't do a great job upscaling the image to 480 so the image is kind of muddy. After seeing how nice the SNES games looked in the special that Giantbomb did, I decided to look into getting an upscaler. It looks like my only option is an XRGB-3 from Micromsoft. And then I need to get a Scart cable for my SNES to go to the XRGB-3 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-UP...ht_1077wt_1270) The XRGB-3 is costly at $500-600, but if it made games look great on an HD tv, I might be able to justify it. Option 2 is to buy a 27" Sony Triniton TV that will take up a bunch of room. But I can get one with a matching stand for $40. So my question is, have you had any experiance with upscaling old consoles to an HD tv WITHOUT emulation or a Wii?

If you get a CRT, make sure you get one that's EnergyStar rated. I had an old RCA CRT for about a year, and when we replaced it with an LCD HDTV our power bill seriously dropped $20/mo. Point being, a CRT will probably be more expensive in the long run due to increased power consumption compared to the scaler.

[CoachKevin]

Triple post. No ban, please. Go with Solaris Japan for the XRGB-3 and save $150 or so: http://www.solarisjapan.com/categori...etCurrencyId=1 And here's the homepage of that eBay cable makin' dude I posted about before: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/home

Ok so all I would need is the xrgb-3 and an NTSC SCART cable for my snes?

[gar3]

Well, you said you mainly play NES, SNES, and Genesis, right? If you wanted all three hooked up to the XRGB-3 at the same time I'd run composite for the NES, s-video for the SNES and then a modified RGB SCART cable for the Genny. This will be the easiest and cheapest route for you. Later on if you don't mind switching cables I'd go for a modified RGB SCART cable for the SNES.

[Mlatador]

Just get a CRT. It doesn't get any better than that - jesus!

Seriously the cheapest and best solution.

[gar3]

Seriously, no.

The question was whether anyone here had any experience with XRGBs. Dude enjoys classic gaming and is interested in taking that love to the next level, visually, while still enjoying the original experience via the individual consoles themselves. The best bang for the buck that he rightfully researched and discovered was one of Micomsoft's family of products. With one of these machines and the right cable classic gaming really comes alive. I'll put an SNES running s-video through an XRGB and VGA against just a straight s-video signal straight to a TV (any TV) any day of the week. Move further up the ladder like a Saturn or PSone via JPN RGB and the results are simply breathtaking. Not into classic gaming via the original hardware looking and playing its best? Move along. Nothing wrong in playing a game system on a TV via any signal. It's just that if you want the best way to go about doing that (and that's what his entire topic was based on), XRGB is the item to do that. Don't know or care about proper deinterlacing? Again, plug the system into any TV and have fun.

[CoachKevin]

Seriously, no. The question was whether anyone here had any experience with XRGBs. Dude enjoys classic gaming and is interested in taking that love to the next level, visually, while still enjoying the original experience via the individual consoles themselves. The best bang for the buck that he rightfully researched and discovered was one of Micomsoft's family of products. With one of these machines and the right cable classic gaming really comes alive. I'll put an SNES running s-video through an XRGB and VGA against just a straight s-video signal straight to a TV (any TV) any day of the week. Move further up the ladder like a Saturn or PSone via JPN RGB and the results are simply breathtaking. Not into classic gaming via the original hardware looking and playing its best? Move along. Nothing wrong in playing a game system on a TV via any signal. It's just that if you want the best way to go about doing that (and that's what his entire topic was based on), XRGB is the item to do that. Don't know or care about proper deinterlacing? Again, plug the system into any TV and have fun.

I am ready to order the XRGB 3, I just need to know where to get a SNES Scart cable that will be compatible with NTSC. (I figure the XRGB is already NTSC compatible?)

[gar3]

If you are really hardcore about SNES gaming on the XRGB via a pure RGB signal, you are going to have to invest in a Super Famicom console and a cart converter in order to do it unless you feel like modding. Super Famicom and Super Nintendo are two very different beasts internally for this particular signal:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav

The only other way to do it is to find someone who will modify a cable for you (either EUR or JPN). You can find generic JPN Super Fami RGB cables on the 'Net but they won't work without capacitor mods on a US SNES. Perhaps one of the boys over at GameSX would take up the project for you for a price. That's why I suggested sticking with s-video for the time being. Again, after a while if you feel you still want the "full experience" you can either try the mod yourself or find someone to do it for you. I don't know of anyone at the moment selling JPN Super Fami RGB cables that will work with a US SNES. Maybe you should e-mail the Retro Gaming Cable guys to see if they'll work one up for you. As for me, I just bought a Super Famicom and was done with it, heh.

[CoachKevin]

OK so it sounds like I should just go with S-Video?

[gar3]

Sadly, yeah. You picked a console to go RGB that Nintendo purposely gimped for the US marketplace, heh. But picking up that cheap MegaDrive RGB cable for use with the XRGB from those UK guys will give you the best for your Genesis at least. Like I said, down the road if you like what you are seeing from the Genny go ahead and invest in either a Super Famicom console or seek out someone to do a mod for you. The mod itself isn't that difficult if you know what you are doing. I thought I did know what I was doing but I had to admit defeat after a while and just buy a Super Fami, heh. But s-video from my US SNES via the XRGB-2+ served me well for most of last decade.

[Slermy]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but the XRGB successor is out:

NCSX starts shipping theirs early next month.
http://www.shopncsx.com/xrgb-minifra...rupscaler.aspx

[Sho Nuff]

I used an XRGB2 to do upscaling to a VGA monitor from the late 90s to the mid-2000s. Comboed with SCART cables for each system, it was absolutely the best game-related purchase I ever made. Just drop-dead gorgeous running on a 17-inch VGA tube monitor.

[sixteen-bit]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but the XRGB successor is out: NCSX starts shipping theirs early next month. http://www.shopncsx.com/xrgb-minifra...rupscaler.aspx

When Micomsoft announced a smaller upscaler box, I was expecting a smaller price tag along with it.

JAY-SUS CHRIST.

Plus I'd need different SCART cables as it doesn't have the same input as the previous XRGBs.

I'm out.

[Sho Nuff]

I will second the JAYSUS CHRIST, what the hell is that connector!? Also, that pricetag is a fistful of NO

[sixteen-bit]

I will second the JAYSUS CHRIST, what the hell is that connector!? Also, that pricetag is a fistful of NO

The connector is Mini-DIN, I think. You'll need a converter of some sort to get traditional SCART to work with it.

[metsallica]

Frame Meisters seem to be arriving, anyone have impressions?

[CoachKevin]

Frame Meisters seem to be arriving, anyone have impressions?

Anyone pick one of these up yet?

[Kenka]

Was wondering what this exciting apocrypha would turn out to be :-(

[CoachKevin]

I ended up not buying the XRGB-3.

Was seconds away from buying one when I was in Akihabara this past November. Now I am playing a ton of NES and SNES games again and they look like shit on my 60" LG (obviously).

Might just pick up a 27" Sony tube this weekend for <$50

[dark10x]

I ended up not buying the XRGB-3. Was seconds away from buying one when I was in Akihabara this past November. Now I am playing a ton of NES and SNES games again and they look like shit on my 60" LG (obviously). Might just pick up a 27" Sony tube this weekend for <$50

Pick up the Sony. That's precisely what I did. Add in a transcoder and some SCART cables and you'll have image quality that rivals the best arcade machines. It looks that damn good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-SCART-t...item3362ac07c8

That's what I'm using for my retro systems. It doesn't handle audio, however, so I had to go a bit further.

I picked up a cheap SCART switcher, ran all of my SCART devices through that, plug the switcher into the transcoder and then run the component cables to the TV. You can then pull the audio directly from the switcher using standard RCA cables (make sure the switcher has the proper outputs for this) and you'll be all set.

I actually spent some time with an XRGB-3 and I did like the results, but I found that it just can't compare with a proper CRT display when it comes to creating an accurate picture. 240p on a CRT just has such a specific look.

[CoachKevin]

Pick up the Sony. That's precisely what I did. Add in a transcoder and some SCART cables and you'll have image quality that rivals the best arcade machines. It looks that damn good. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-SCART-t...item3362ac07c8 That's what I'm using for my retro systems. It doesn't handle audio, however, so I had to go a bit further. I picked up a cheap SCART switcher, ran all of my SCART devices through that, plug the switcher into the transcoder and then run the component cables to the TV. You can then pull the audio directly from the switcher using standard RCA cables (make sure the switcher has the proper outputs for this) and you'll be all set. I actually spent some time with an XRGB-3 and I did like the results, but I found that it just can't compare with a proper CRT display when it comes to creating an accurate picture. 240p on a CRT just has such a specific look.

So if money wasn't a big deal you would go with the XRGB?

[Tain]

Going by dark10x's past posts here and elsewhere, I think he'd stick with the CRT.

I'd take a great CRT over one of these, myself.

[honeymustardn]

RGB + CRT = all you need. And so cheap!

[Chacranajxy]

Pick up the Sony. That's precisely what I did. Add in a transcoder and some SCART cables and you'll have image quality that rivals the best arcade machines. It looks that damn good. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-SCART-t...item3362ac07c8 That's what I'm using for my retro systems. It doesn't handle audio, however, so I had to go a bit further. I picked up a cheap SCART switcher, ran all of my SCART devices through that, plug the switcher into the transcoder and then run the component cables to the TV. You can then pull the audio directly from the switcher using standard RCA cables (make sure the switcher has the proper outputs for this) and you'll be all set. I actually spent some time with an XRGB-3 and I did like the results, but I found that it just can't compare with a proper CRT display when it comes to creating an accurate picture. 240p on a CRT just has such a specific look.

Yeah, an honest to God CRT is the best solution. I do love my XRGB3, but as long as your CRT supports SCART, I'd go with that.

[M3d10n]

Even with the best hardware, playing retro consoles on HDTVs kinda feels like playing emulators. Nothing beats having a CRT dedicated for that.

[Reclaimer]

My Trinitron CRT died early this year. :(. The wifey and I decided it was time to get rid of that monster once and for all; it was just taking up too much space in our small house.

But I picked up a Framemeister maybe 3 months ago, and it's fantastic. And believe it or not, worth the price if you are into this sort of thing. I've never seen SNES look so glorious on a 55" screen, with just about zero lag. Yoshi's Island totally blew me away the first time I popped it in. Working on Chrono Trigger now.

The extensive review at http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html is the truth.

[CoachKevin]

My Trinitron CRT died early this year. :(. The wifey and I decided it was time to get rid of that monster once and for all; it was just taking up too much space in our small house. But I picked up a Framemeister maybe 3 months ago, and it's fantastic. And believe it or not, worth the price if you are into this sort of thing. I've never seen SNES look so glorious on a 55" screen, with just about zero lag. Yoshi's Island totally blew me away the first time I popped it in. Working on Chrono Trigger now. The extensive review at http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html is the truth.

I think you just sold me. I already have 6 arcade machines in the house, adding a 27-32" sony tube might tap me out of room.

$550 video upscaler for a 60" HD tv, or putting a $20-40 27-32" Sony tube with my arcade machines...

[CrunchinJelly]

What was that site that sells little boxes to add scanlines? I think it was a .de address.

[CoachKevin]

Oh, and has anyone tried hooking up their NES/SNES/Genesis to a HD tube tv like this one:

[meppi]

What was that site that sells little boxes to add scanlines? I think it was a .de address.

I have one of those. One for the Dreamcast that uses VGA and works fine.
And the second one that uses RGB input and looks like absolute crap.
On a big screen you end up with scan lines that are about a half centimeter in height and never look like they should.

I have an X-RGB-2+ but I'm not fully satisfied with it either.
My Neo Geo AES is terrible on it with all the screen tearing going on. And other systems have problems as well. Like misalignment of the screen and such. :-/

I would consider picking up a framemeister, but I'd have to know if all the old systems from the PC-Engine up to the PS2 work perfectly on it before doing so.

[CoachKevin]

Wow, there are 10 32" sony tv's (the one they made in 2004ish) in my area for under $50, think I will just do that.

[MoxManiac]

I can't stand playing SNES (and I assume the other old 240p consoles) on my HDTV. Every time there's a screen transition (going to a new area in a game for example) there's this weird brief distortion blip, like changing a channel, every time. It's annoying as hell. Other than that SNES actually looked pretty good, through s-video.

[Chacranajxy]

I would consider picking up a framemeister, but I'd have to know if all the old systems from the PC-Engine up to the PS2 work perfectly on it before doing so.

I know the XRGB-3 improved compatibility with stuff over the 2, and from what I've heard, the Flamemeister was supposed to improve compatibility even more... point is, it actually might be the solution you're looking for.

[teiresias]

I run both my SNES and my Sega Genesis/CD through RGB SCART cables, then to SCART-to-Component converters, then to a component switcher, and then into my 50" Kuro Plasma, I then take the audio out from the TV and feed it into the receiver to get audio through my sound system (I run the Kuro without the speaker attached).

To my eyes, the upscaling isn't really bad through the TV, though the occasional game has the weird artifact show up during motion (mainly in Genesis/CD games for some reason, but I'm not sure whether that's the TV's scaler or the SCART-to-component converter). It certainly isn't bad enough to warrant the cost of an X-RGB3 for me at this point. If I had more room I'd definitely bring my 32" CRT from my dad's house and run my "retro" stuff through that, but I just don't have the room right now.

[CoachKevin]

OK I think I have narrowed it down to these factors:

• Sony Brand
• 4:3
• 32"
• HD or SD

Do the 16:9 HD Sony Tubes play NES and SNES games through composite natively?

[Stumpokapow]

What was that site that sells little boxes to add scanlines? I think it was a .de address.

The .de site you're thinking of is:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[Eusis]

Do the 16:9 HD Sony Tubes play NES and SNES games through composite natively?

If they're TVs I don't see why not, my Sony Bravia does and you'd think if that were an issue it wouldn't just be a blip where they stopped supporting THEN supported again. Hell, it supports 240p over component, something I don't see many people having luck with on their HDTVs.

Though I'd get S-Video cables for the SNES if possible instead, you'll appreciate it on an HD set even more.

[CrunchinJelly]

The .de site you're thinking of is: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

Correct me for being a dumbfuck, but why do all these solutions have VGA input/output when my old consoles have RGB SCART?

[CoachKevin]

So all things being equal price wise, would you get a 32" Sony Trinitron tube (2004ish) or a 34" Sony XBR HD TV.

I figured that I could as least make use of the HD tube outside of retro gaming as well...

[Chacranajxy]

Correct me for being a dumbfuck, but why do all these solutions have VGA input/output when my old consoles have RGB SCART?

They also have RGB-in and DVI-out. If you get an XRGB, which is the only thing you really should be getting.

[Souther]

So all things being equal price wise, would you get a 32" Sony Trinitron tube (2004ish) or a 34" Sony XBR HD TV. I figured that I could as least make use of the HD tube outside of retro gaming as well...

This is the TV that I have. Sony Trinitron Wega 4:3 HD 32" CRT. I have the following consoles hooked up to it via the RGB Scart to Component Transcoder that was listed earlier in the thread.

Megadrive 1, JVC X'Eye, Sega Saturn, Super Famicom all outputting scart, into a 4 way scart switch, which then goes into the transcoder and from there outputting component into the TV. And I have a PS2 going staight into the TV via component.

The games look awesome. And this is probably the best way to play them.

And your question about which to choose...Well if you're going to be using the set to watch widescreen movies as well, or anything widescreen based then i guess the XBR would be the best bet. But if you're buying the TV and using it strictly for 4:3 content like the consoles above then I'd go with the Trinitron.