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AzureNightmare
Banned
(09-25-2011, 02:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kiiji

You realize that TP shows Zelda surrendering her entire kingdom to Zant in order to save her own life, right? She's also kept as a prisoner for the majority of the game. Not to mention that many of the characters in the game (especially Midna, and Zelda herself included IIRC) constantly remind you that she is completely detached from the average citizen and can't understand suffering (especially the Twili's). The only heroic things she does are at the very end of the game.

WRONG.
IdreamofHIME
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:29 AM)
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My Dragon Age heroine...though she did sleep with everyone in the party and then dump them like a hot potato when achievement was unlocked. Oops.
PumpkinPie
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by blitzcloud



Big mama?

Ziggy Stardust?
TeK-DeLorean
Junior Member
(09-25-2011, 02:38 AM)
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People find lightning sexualized?? really??
anyways my list
Seth from Lost Odyssey, easily my favorite character in the game

Lightning
Nariko
Kat
Faith
Flemmith

Morrigan

I think people who disagree with Nariko have probably not played the fucking game. Are we just going by outfits or the character?
Kalnos
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by BigJiantRobut

Character-wise, absolutely, but let's be real here:

Their visual design was totally designed to be sexy (terrible old official art as it may be) in a dom kind of way. This kind of character design pops up in male-oriented fiction a lot, and video games are no exception. It ain't a bad thing, but let's not pretend they wear black metal boots for no reason.

If your definition of highly sexualized stops at physical appearance and is calculated as the sum total of attractive feminine traits, then yes, I can see your point. Not all Sisters of Battle wear black boots (depends on Order IIRC) and not all of them are attractive, especially if you look at some of the tabletop models.

They're zealous space nuns, their isn't much to not like about them. Also, lots of artwork in 40k seems to be propaganda and exaggerated (like much of universe), just look at some of the artwork of the Emperor.
Last edited by Kalnos; 09-25-2011 at 02:46 AM.
Sneaky Gato
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by BigJiantRobut

Character-wise, absolutely, but let's be real here:

Their visual design was totally designed to be sexy (terrible old official art as it may be) in a dom kind of way. This kind of character design pops up in male-oriented fiction a lot, and video games are no exception. It ain't a bad thing, but let's not pretend they wear black metal boots for no reason.

Completely agreed on that. Out of universe their designs were heavily sexualized. Thankfully the decisions that led to those designs were very much a product of their time and enviorment and the new ones look to better reflect the sisters character.
airmangataosenai
Banned
(09-25-2011, 02:45 AM)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmhz3...yer_detailpage

Where the hell is this "Lightning runs like a model" thing coming from? Her run animation looks like normal jogging to me. I never really thought of her as that serialized either, and it's worth noting she's one of very few female leads in a game who aren't paired off with a love interest.
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(09-25-2011, 02:50 AM)
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I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.
SapientWolf
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs

I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.

Bayonetta is basically the female version of Dante.
Kalnos
Member
(09-25-2011, 02:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs

I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.

Yeah, you said it better than I did. I think it's a person to person interpretation with some of the characters.
BlazingDarkness
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:36 AM)
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[IMG]http://i55.************/xqgha8.png[/IMG]



Harder to think than I thought
Last edited by BlazingDarkness; 09-25-2011 at 03:41 AM.
Bentendo
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:37 AM)
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What's with all the spinoff threads?
Mush
6.0
(09-25-2011, 03:37 AM)
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I can only honestly think of Faith from Mirrors Edge.
XANDER CAGE
WELCOME TO THE XANDER ZONE
(09-25-2011, 03:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bentendo

What's with all the spinoff threads?

Everyone's a comedian
kokujin
Banned
(09-25-2011, 03:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

Hells yeah!

Also, best fight scene.

Loved the fight.Up until she died.
Jive Turkey
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by BigJiantRobut

Everyone's a comedian

Best comedic (not sexualized) female characters in this generation?
XANDER CAGE
WELCOME TO THE XANDER ZONE
(09-25-2011, 03:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Best comedic (not sexualized) female characters in this generation?

kazooie
Inanna
Not pure anymore!
(09-25-2011, 03:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by fernoca

Basically. XD

OMG, she's wearing a tank top..that slut!!!
OMG, she moans when she's in pain..so she's having multiple orgasms!!!


I thought my earlier mentions were going to be "lame"; but turns out that:
Chell: lol tanktop = boobs
Elena: Short pants in #1 and shows belly in #2 = slut
Lara: Tank top and moans in the demo = Sexual intentions
Zelda: lol animu = panties = sex

When I say sexual moans and groans, I mean Gloria or Trish from DMC or Bayonetta, definitely not talking about Lara from the recent Tomb Raider game, you could tell that she was in pain.
SolidSnakex
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by SapientWolf

Bayonetta is basically the female version of Dante.

That's really not true. Kamiya said being "cool" was the theme for Dante while "sexiness" was the theme for Bayonetta. You can see that in the marketing and movesets for each character. Dante's moves were all there to make him look cool. Bayonetta's moves are there to make her look sexy. She's almost naked during her strongest attacks. And the marketing differences are very clear. Sega even did a promotion with Playboy for Bayonetta.
Last edited by SolidSnakex; 09-25-2011 at 04:24 AM.
Cow Mengde
Junior Member
(09-25-2011, 03:49 AM)
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Ivy from Soul Calibur 5. She managed to put on MORE cloths!
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
(09-25-2011, 03:50 AM)
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strong, intelligent, ironic, sensitive woman. And she's a sniper
Sharla from Xenoblade


Flying_Phoenix
Banned
(09-25-2011, 03:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by IoCaster


Emma Honeywell


One of the best female characters ever.

This. The Last Remnant had some awesome characters. Truly showed that Japaense tropes could be done right.
Tylahedras
Banned
(09-25-2011, 03:56 AM)
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She is strong but... it's a trap. So is she still sexualized if you're cock blocked by her back story? literally?

Really I just want an excuse to mention her since I think she's one of the better "strong female" characters this gen, other issues aside.
BlazingDarkness
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tylahedras



She is strong but... it's a trap. So is she still sexualized if you're cock blocked by her back story? literally?

Really I just want an excuse to mention her since I think she's one of the better "strong female" characters this gen, other issues aside.

She's definitely strong, but also very sexualized, much like Bayonetta.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(09-25-2011, 03:57 AM)
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What's "sexualized"?

Seems to be:

1. Female body parts exaggerated
2. Less clothing
3. Sexually alluring facial expressions and poses

The funny thing is that no one would ever read a male character as "sexualized" even if he had ripped biceps, wore nothing but a speedo, and had a "rape time" look on his face.

There are tons of unrealistic portrayals of masculinity in videogames. They're nearly ALL unrealistic fantasy portrayals that most real men can not live up to. But only when it's fantasy femininity do people equate it with sex and exploitation.

I can appreciate the desire for a variety of diverse characters across the board... and so I do appreciate this thread. But I think the implicit assumption that beautiful fantasy women are "wrong/disgusting/laughable/pandering" is silly. These are video games... a realm of pure fantasy. It's ok to see fantasy men with amazing masculine features, just as it is ok to see fantasy women with amazing feminine features.
Jive Turkey
Member
(09-25-2011, 03:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by BigJiantRobut

kazooie

...But Kazooie isn't funy. At all.

And I'm sure there are some furries (featheries?) who would probably disagree with you.
XANDER CAGE
WELCOME TO THE XANDER ZONE
(09-25-2011, 03:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tylahedras

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo9yolx8fR1qisbe6o1_400.jpg

She is strong but... it's a trap.

Come on.
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(09-25-2011, 04:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

What's "sexualized"?

*snip*

I think it's a lot less complicated than all of that. To me there is a degree of objectification which goes along with sexualisation which isn't necessary when creating a sexy character. If a character merely exists to be an object of sexual fantasy then they become sexualised, while a character who possesses many traits one of which happens to be a strong sexuality does not.
Tylahedras
Banned
(09-25-2011, 04:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by BlazingDarkness

She's definitely strong, but also very sexualized, much like Bayonetta.

While I certainly wouldn't argue with you. I brought her up simply because while her design certainly is sexualized (the game even jokes about it). She does not exist in the context of the game as a sexual item, attainment or object of affection for the player. And her characterization, personality and speech are not sexualized.

So she looks the part but certainly doesn't play it. Bayoneta definitely does.

*Edit: Hell one could argue the Alex Vance is more sexualized since even though she wears plain clothes she's actually the romantic object of the player character. And she's meant to be viewed with that type of protective affection by the person playing.
Last edited by Tylahedras; 09-25-2011 at 04:15 AM.
Finaika
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:15 AM)
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Selvaria from Valkyria Chronicles.

Despite having big, juicy boobs & a huge sword that looks like a penis, she's not sexualised at all.
WrenchNinja
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gravijah

Ghost Trick spoilers. Do not cross this black line unless you have beaten the game.

Sissel the Cat, of course.

The cat is male, it's the fiancee that's female. Sissel is a gender neutral name based off of Cecil and Cecille.
RyL
Banned
(09-25-2011, 04:20 AM)
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this gen: none, nada, nichts, zero

previous gens:

Meche from Grim Fandango



and maybe Sam from The Getaway Black Monday



I think sexualizing starts when the main character or NPC is expected/has to be (overly) beautiful to be considered strong and noteworthy. Back in the days technology was the limiting factor but what's wrong with adding some "imperfections" with today's tech? You know like giving them "normal" sized breasts, don't make them ass monster for once or more face specific, add some dark circles under the eyes or how about eye bags, lines, beauty spots (birthmarks, sunspots, brown dots or whatever you call them) etc. you name it.

Even people who are considered pretty (in real life) have to deal with their fair share of blemishes. That's why most female videogame character still look like lifeless barbie dolls to me. Videogame artists don't seem to have any problems making their male counterparts all rough and wrinkly, so it's definitely not a hardware-limitation issue.

And don't get me started about the actual persona and characteristics of female characters in videogames. Pretty much all of them seem to have the mindset of a 12 year old girl or worse.

It's so sad that you really have to think hard to come up with something. Well, some will argue that videogames are still a new medium... but to be honest, gaming really isn't anymore.



// also, I had a good laugh at all the guys who posted the uncharted bubble butt monster Chloe
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(09-25-2011, 04:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs

I think it's a lot less complicated than all of that. To me there is a degree of objectification which goes along with sexualisation which isn't necessary when creating a sexy character. If a character merely exists to be an object of sexual fantasy then they become sexualised, while a character who possesses many traits one of which happens to be a strong sexuality does not.

You have a point. The "you know it when you see it" doctrine.

Is it wrong though? It's just appealing to a fantasy.

I don't think you could make a male character "sexualized" because there isn't the same perception of masculinity (or might I add, the same desire on the part of both men and women to cover female bodies and "keep them modest").

But with male characters, the fantasy fufillment angle might be something else.... the super-tough, alpha male 'man-in-uniform' is itself a pandering fantasy which can appeal to both men and women... but no one seems to worry about that fantasy characteristic as much. Maybe because that fantasy isn't defined by sexuality, a touchy subject? Maybe because the masculine ideal is traditionally represented by possessing great skills, and not for possessing great looks, so it can be legitimized as serving a purpose beyond just the fantasy?

The point is, I don't think sexy female characters are at all wrong in the context of fantasy wish-fulfillment media, such as gaming. As I said, if people want to seek less-sexualized female characters, I can appreciate that as well. I would just hope people don't see fantastic femininity as a "wrong" which should be eliminated... it's quite natural. And, there is just as much fantastic masculinity in gaming, even if "sexuality" is not perceived to be as much of a component in that trait.
a Master Ninja
for whom the Bell trolls
(09-25-2011, 04:25 AM)
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EatChildren's posts are making me view Commander Shepard in a different way.

Originally Posted by Typographenia


Emily Wyatt in Deadly Premonition.

This is a pretty good pick. One of the best female characters Japan has produced.
jsnepo
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:26 AM)
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The Boss and Alyx Vance.
Typographenia
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by RyL

this gen: none, nada, nichts, zero

You keep thinking that!


Thanks, a Master Ninja. I felt as though my picks have been completely lost in the thread arguing over characters that are just kind of meh, but I know better, now.
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(09-25-2011, 04:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

You have a point. The "you know it when you see it" doctrine.

Is it wrong though? It's just appealing to a fantasy.

I don't think you could make a male character "sexualized" because there isn't the same perception of masculinity (or might I add, the same desire on the part of both men and women to cover female bodies and "keep them modest").

But with male characters, the fantasy fufillment angle might be something else.... the super-tough, alpha male 'man-in-uniform' is itself a pandering fantasy which can appeal to both men and women... but no one seems to worry about that fantasy characteristic as much. Maybe because that fantasy isn't defined by sexuality, a touchy subject? Maybe because the masculine ideal is traditionally represented by possessing great skills, and not for possessing great looks, so it can be legitimized as serving a purpose beyond just the fantasy?

The point is, I don't think sexy female characters are at all wrong in the context of fantasy wish-fulfillment media, such as gaming. As I said, if people want to seek less-sexualized female characters, I can appreciate that as well. I would just hope people don't see fantastic femininity as a "wrong" which should be eliminated... it's quite natural. And, there is just as much fantastic masculinity in gaming, even if "sexuality" is not perceived to be as much of a component in that trait.

I don't think that it's wrong to create a character for the purposes of some type of fantasy fulfilment but I think it takes away from the potential strength of the character most of the time. The problem is that you have this character who is supposed to be strong and independent but at their core is subject to the whims and desires of a creator, or controller in the case of the player, who sees them as a sexual ideal. This can be true for male or female characters if they exist for this purpose, Edward in the Twilight series will forever be a slave to his uncontrollable lust for Stephenie Mey- um, I mean Bella.

As for the difference between the genders, that's another prickly one. A big problem is that the traits which are idealised and exaggerated in the male power fantasy characters are more commonly considered to be desirable traits which define the very art of manliness. In contrast, even today the attitudes which a lot of people take towards female sexuality are dreadfully prudish, and that goes for the attitudes of both men and women. Women can actually be the meanest of slut-shamers.

Lastly, I agree with your final point completely. I think that the historical dominance of men within the games industry has led to a lot of the oversexualisation which makes people uncomfortable. As more women enter the industry I think this will improve, and there will be enough of a balance being provided by the existence of a broad range of genuinely strong, sexy female leads standing shoulder to shoulder with their strong, sexy male counterparts.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
(09-25-2011, 04:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by BlazingDarkness



Harder to think than I thought

Jiggling boobs on every cutscene shes in. Shes out.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(09-25-2011, 04:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs

I don't think that it's wrong to create a character for the purposes of some type of fantasy fulfilment but I think it takes away from the potential strength of the character most of the time. The problem is that you have this character who is supposed to be strong and independent but at their core is subject to the whims and desires of a creator, or controller in the case of the player, who sees them as a sexual ideal. This can be true for male or female characters if they exist for this purpose, Edward in the Twilight series will forever be a slave to his uncontrollable lust for Stephenie Mey- um, I mean Bella.

As for the difference between the genders, that's another prickly one. A big problem is that the traits which are idealised and exaggerated in the male power fantasy characters are more commonly considered to be desirable traits which define the very art of manliness. In contrast, even today the attitudes which a lot of people take towards female sexuality are dreadfully prudish, and that goes for the attitudes of both men and women. Women can actually be the meanest of slut-shamers.

Lastly, I agree with your final point completely. I think that the historical dominance of men within the games industry has led to a lot of the oversexualisation which makes people uncomfortable. As more women enter the industry I think this will improve, and there will be enough of a balance being provided by the existence of a broad range of genuinely strong, sexy female leads standing shoulder to shoulder with their strong, sexy male counterparts.

Yeah.. I guess the ideal would be a plurality of different male and female character styles. Obviously this industry is a bit skewed toward the adolescent male consumer, not unlike comic books, and it should branch out into creating characters with a wider appeal. It'll happen.
TekkenMaster
Banned
(09-25-2011, 04:45 AM)
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To a heterosexual male, every attractive female is "sexualized". It's how humans are biologically programmed.

The only way a female character wouldn't be "sexualized" would be to cover her from head to toe in a burka.
clemenx
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:50 AM)
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Only 1 Shanoa mention in the thread. GAF sucks.
Y2Kev
The Last Guardian is Dead. Sorry.
(09-25-2011, 04:50 AM)
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^^^ hooker boots
WrenchNinja
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Y2Kev

^^^ hooker boots

also dat back.
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(09-25-2011, 04:51 AM)
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wtf is wrong with hooker boots
bengraven
will fuck homely black hookers in the name of progress and tolerance
(09-25-2011, 04:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou



Should have been the first post. Imho the most believable strong female character created so far.

Fucking this.

I'll also add Leilana.
Varna
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by clemenx

Only 1 Shanoa mention in the thread. GAF sucks.

Can't think of a single thing she does or says that makes her a strong female lead. She is just female for the sake of eye candy.
WrenchNinja
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Varna

Can't think of a single thing she does or says that makes her a strong female lead. She is just female for the sake of eye candy.

Yeah, isn't she just an empty vessel with no personality or emotions for most of the game?
bhlaab
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by fernoca

  • Lara Croft (Tomb Raider -new one-...so far)

You joking?? It appears that she spends all of her time being either raped or beaten.

I mean she's probably going to become a badass in the last hour of the game because god forbid a woman be strong without passing a trial by fire
Kalnos
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:56 AM)
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Most video game characters are empty vessels.
Typographenia
Member
(09-25-2011, 04:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by jim-jam bongs

wtf is wrong with hooker boots

I know, right? I think they're pretty comfortable, all things considered.



I still stand firmly behind my choice for Rosa from Hotel Dusk.

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