[Foliorum Viridum]

A word of caution for people on WMD: you can seemingly be kicked out of the project for not being perfectly in agreement with SMS. :(

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthrea...ll=1#post49950

For those who were wondering.

Seems fair enough to me TBH.

[mclaren777]

I can't access that so could you please screencap it for me?

I don't know what happened after I responded to Ian.

[R1CHO]

Have you been talking about rfactor2 a lot outside the other racing games forums?

I dont know, this looks crazy to me, but i dont follow the wmd forum a lot, a shame.

[Foliorum Viridum]

Just been browsing the forum a bit and there has been a lot of changes since I last played. Nice to see multiplayer discussion going on.

I think I'll have a long session with the latest build tomorrow. I've not updated in ages!

[op_ivy]

so, you are banned from the forum, or the project entirely? pretty shitty if its the latter, though you do tend to rub people the wrong way :P



unrelated, i see rally in the flow chart from the opening post. is this still being planned? havent heard or seen anything on it other than that flowchart

[Metalmurphy]

McLaren was basically running PR for rFactor on the WMD forums lol. It's one thing to do it on GAF, doesn't make alot of sense to do it in a forum dedicated to another company/game.

so, you are banned from the forum, or the project entirely? pretty shitty if its the latter, though you do tend to rub people the wrong way :P

He's been downgraded to Free Member

[Shaneus]

McLaren was basically running PR for rFactor on the WMD forums lol. It's one thing to do it on GAF, doesn't make alot of sense to do it in a forum dedicated to another company/game. He's been downgraded to Free Member

Metalmurphy to bring up GT5 in this thread in 5... 4... 3...


;)

Edit: But it is a bit shit though, essentially donating to a cause, talking about other causes then being blacklisted. At least, that's what I've gathered from reading a few posts and this thread.

[Foliorum Viridum]

McLaren was basically running PR for rFactor on the WMD forums lol. It's one thing to do it on GAF, doesn't make alot of sense to do it in a forum dedicated to another company/game.

When I posted about multiplayer in the last page he tried to sell me on rFactor, a post which has now since been edited.

He clearly doesn't like the direction of the game which is fair enough, but being PR for rFactor in a forum dedicated to CARS is clearly in poor taste and was done in such a way it seemed like trolling from the posts I read in his post history.

He has a horrible elitist attitude and he can't be surprised that the CARS team don't want him involved. He got his money back, so there's no controversy. They don't want him at their party and I applaud them taking that stance personally.

[StuKen]

Mercenary shills active on gaf you say? I for one am shocked an/or appalled.

[Metalmurphy]

Metalmurphy to bring up GT5 in this thread in 5... 4... 3... ;)

2 , 1, Never?

I've been racing in CARS since build 73 and never mentioned it either here or on the WMD forums, I enjoy any sim racer and been doing for ages so stop pretending you know me. Don't hate on me because I don't own a 360...

[1-D_FTW]

I was going to ask about Cars in the rfactor 2 thread. Guess I won't have to. I didn't think it was in rfactor's league, but now that I see this page, I can close the book. I don't care how much/little impact EA had on SMS, they'll forever soil my opinion of them after Shift. Any temptation I had to check them out is now gone.

67 Spa/Monaco with a wheel and all aides off is greater than any racing game ever IMO.

[Sethos]

Metalmurphy to bring up GT5 in this thread in 5... 4... 3... ;)

No need to, you just did :P

[Blizzard]

A word of caution for people on WMD: you can seemingly be kicked out of the project for not being perfectly in agreement with SMS. :(

Please don't post this sort of thing without links and more detailed information. :(

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthrea...ll=1#post49950 For those who were wondering. Seems fair enough to me TBH.

Thanks for the info. I don't like the idea of people getting $35 member status downgraded, but they have given a lot of leeway on the forums for people to discuss other racing games at length. I don't know what the right answer is.

[mclaren777]

Have you been talking about rfactor2 a lot outside the other racing games forums?

Nope. I respected pCARS enough to keep the rF2 stuff in the rF2 area.

I'm quite bummed that Ian pulled the plug on my account. I joined this project because I was really excited about the tracks that SMS was planning to make. Imola is my favorite track in the world so I joined as a Junior Member when the project first when live. I then upgraded to Team Member shortly after SMS announced that it would be bringing Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Snetterton and Cadwell Park to the game. But then they started working on eight tracks that I don't care about so I gradually lost interest in the project.

I was very clear with them that I joined to help give feedback about the tracks and the physics, but SMS didn't seem interested in either. My first 160+ posts on WMD were fully dedicated to pCARS and I even spent two hours making an "SMS Appreciation Thread" where I cataloged all 53 employees to thank them for their hard work.

Being kicked out of the project for being temporarily dissatisfied with pCARS hardly seems reasonable, though I respect SMS' authority to do whatever they want.

[Metalmurphy]

No offense mclaren, but it wasn't just Ian upset with your posts. It was pretty much everyone on the forum. That tends to happen when you feel the need to constantly show you're displeased with something that is not supposed to be catered just to you. You know... other people need to play it as well.

[op_ivy]

I was very clear with them that I joined to help give feedback about the tracks and the physics, but SMS didn't seem interested in either.

you and everyone else. sounds like you wanted things your way while they are trying to satisfy the demands of many more.

[Blizzard]

It looks like Ian at least offered him his money back too, so that makes me feel a little better. :/

http://www.abload.de/img/mck8p8g.png

[Foliorum Viridum]

you and everyone else. sounds like you wanted things your way while they are trying to satisfy the demands of many more.

He was never unreasonable and bitched about content that the majority of CARS customers wanted. What are you on about?

The vast majority of that thread love Spa being in the game. SMS should cater to what people want most IMO. He has a horrible attitude on the forum, even outside of the rFactor shilling.

[mclaren777]

No offense mclaren, but it wasn't just Ian upset with your posts. It was pretty much everyone on the forum. That tends to happen when you feel the need to constantly show you're displeased with something that is not supposed to be catered just to you. You know... other people need to play it as well.

I'm aware of that, but I feel like fresquito described the situation perfectly.

SMS seems more interested in getting us to help fund the project (by my calculations they've raised about $180k from WMD members) than they are in listening to our feedback. If anything, they seem to be charging us to be QA testers for pCARS.

Food for thought: has SMS ever made an official poll to ask what kind of vehicles people want in pCARS?

[op_ivy]

He was never unreasonable and bitched about content that the majority of CARS customers wanted. What are you on about? The vast majority of that thread love Spa being in the game. SMS should cater to what people want most IMO. He has a horrible attitude on the forum, even outside of the rFactor shilling.

cant visit your link, but i'm well aware of mclaren's posting "style". i dont think he means to come off as a troll, but he always seems to in any racing community he takes part in. see the forza threads. or gt threads (or so i've heard), and now the project cars ones.

[Shaneus]

2 , 1, Never? I've been racing in CARS since build 73 and never mentioned it either here or on the WMD forums, I enjoy any sim racer and been doing for ages so stop pretending you know me. Don't hate on me because I don't own a 360...

The wink was clearly not big enough, sir. I shall try to be more *nudge nudge, wink wink*-ey next time. Playful dig and all that, just roll with it. No need to justify or explain a thing :)

[Foliorum Viridum]

cant visit your link, but i'm well aware of mclaren's posting "style". i dont think he means to come off as a troll, but he always seems to in any racing community he takes part in. see the forza threads. or gt threads (or so i've heard), and now the project cars ones.

His post:

I don't care if this version is the best one every made. I never want to see Spa in another racing game ever again (apart from F1 games)! It's far too over-exposed. I invested in pCARS because it held the promise of interesting tracks (Watkins Glen, Cadwell Park, etc). I don't want it to turn into every other racing game that feels mandated to include tracks like Tsukuba, Laguna Seca, Silverstone, etc. I'm tired of it!

I agree that his posting style is horrible and in a project that is so focused on a good community it's understandable why they'd get bored of his (apparent or real) trolling, as well as taking any chance to shill rFactor.

Anyway, I'm not gonna post about this more because this thread should be about the great game.

[R1CHO]

He wants new and different tracks, and so he express his disappointment for the team working on a track we have seen in a million games.

I love spa, i want it on the game, but i think he can differ.

[mclaren777]

It looks like Ian at least offered him his money back too, so that makes me feel a little better. :/ http://www.abload.de/img/mck8p8g.png

Yes, I got my money back, though I wish they would have kept it.

I really want pCARS to succeed and I hope they get enough funding to keep the console dream alive. It's true that I spent the last week of my membership in the rF2 thread, but that's because the previous pCARS build (129) was really buggy so I steered clear of it. Plus, there are some great lessons that SMS could learn from rF2 (like proper FFB) so I didn't see any reason not to post about rF2 (why else would they have a dedicated 'Other Racing Game' forum?).

[fresquito]

I'm sorry mclaren. Since I started taking part in the project, I've thought Ian was too arrogant. He's given responses to hard questions I've asked with answers close to "shut up". Once I asked him what would receive Team Members after the game was done, and pointing at how the promo promised a free copy of the game when the game is supposed to be free to play, he told me we would get our money on DLC, probably. Then I told him he should never lie to people, promising things that aren't set in stone. I told him this because I believe in fair bussiness, but he seems to don't care. He complains about EA, but his real complain is that he's not running EA, because his policy is very close to EA's. Of course he was upset at me saying this, but in all honesty, he was mad at someone telling the hard truth.

From then on, I started to ignore the forums and it's been two months since I last downloaded a build. I hope the game turns out great. I was really excited about WMD development and, in my eyes, it's been a big lie. As you said, we're paying to be QA testers and vote on what DLC we will be buying down the road.

BTW, people saying mclaren was trolling pCARS is out of their minds. I don't think anybody here wanted this project to work as much as him.

[Metalmurphy]

I'm sorry mclaren. Since I started taking part in the project, I've thought Ian was too arrogant. He's given responses to hard questions I've asked with answers close to "shut up". Once I asked him what would receive Team Members after the game was done, and pointing at how the promo promised a free copy of the game when the game is supposed to be free to play, he told me we would get our money on DLC, probably. Then I told him he should never lie to people, promising things that aren't set in stone. I told him this because I believe in fair bussiness, but he seems to don't care. He complains about EA, but his real complain is that he's not running EA, because his policy is very close to EA's. Of course he was upset at me saying this, but in all honesty, he was mad at someone telling the hard truth. From then on, I started to ignore the forums and it's been two months since I last downloaded a build. I hope the game turns out great. I was really excited about WMD development and, in my eyes, it's been a big lie. As you said, we're paying to be QA testers and vote on what DLC we will be buying down the road. BTW, people saying mclaren was trolling pCARS is out of their minds. I don't think anybody here wanted this project to work as much as him.

Do you have a link to that thread?

And define "work", he just wants it to "work" for him.

[mclaren777]

BTW, people saying mclaren was trolling pCARS is out of their minds. I don't think anybody here wanted this project to work as much as him.

I'm really not a pCARS-hater like some people seem to think. It's easily the best looking racing game ever made and I'm disappointed to not be part of it anymore. I just wasn't interested in the recent developments of the project so I was taking a step back. I'm tempted to re-join in the future when those four tracks become available, but this recent experience has left a sour taste in my mouth. :(

And most Gaffers might not realize this, but these posts were all copy/pasted from PMs I sent to fresquito...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31845123&postcount=178
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32197197&postcount=388
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32319867&postcount=416
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32792646&postcount=457

[fresquito]

Do you have a link to that thread? And define "work", he just wants it to "work" for him.

Work as in succeed. The early premise was that pCARS was the dream racing game no publisher wanted to publish but that people would make possible. It was a lie. It's the dream game SMS wanted to do but no publisher accepted.

Again, I'm not against the game itself, I'm not a big expert on racing sims (far from it), I'm just disappointed that WMD is far from what I was promised in the early days, and I'm pretty sure mclaren feels the same way.

About the link, I don't know. Look for my posts history in the WMD forums if you're interested. You'll see all my propositions end up the same way: it's not set in stone yet, but no.

[herod]

I think I'll upgrade my membership.

[blu]

Work as in succeed. The early premise was that pCARS was the dream racing game no publisher wanted to publish but that people would make possible. It was a lie. It's the dream game SMS wanted to do but no publisher accepted. Again, I'm not against the game itself, I'm not a big expert on racing sims (far from it), I'm just disappointed that WMD is far from what I was promised in the early days, and I'm pretty sure mclaren feels the same way. About the link, I don't know. Look for my posts history in the WMD forums if you're interested. You'll see all my propositions end up the same way: it's not set in stone yet, but no.

While I'm not a WMD member, I too have interest in seeing the game ship, and I'll comment on the things you expressed above.

A commercial game project, whether it's a car sim, an RTS, or a tetris, has to be done by the rules of commercial project development. That means that as good as the project's community might be in the given sphere of expertise, it cannot feasibly develop the game - a pool of specialized development resources can (as in: professional developers with expertise in the field), subject to commercial project management. The community can give feedback when asked, prioritize features open for voting, etc, and most of all beta-test, but that's about it.

Perhaps SMS have not been clear enough with those things when accepting new community members - i don't know and cannot comment, but if anybody there for a second assumed they'd somehow shape the product by their views and tastes without SMS deliberately asking about the person's opinion, they've been fooling themselves.

There are a hundred-and-one pitfalls that can tank a commercial game project (apparently the more complex the project is, the more and bigger the pitfalls are), and an order of magnitude more when the dev team expands to a large pool of loosely-involved individuals. I bet that the leading reason SMS have been answering with 'not set in stone, but probably no' once too often is that, low and behold, SMS want to ship the game, vis a vis create some social experiment where they let everybody in the kitchen, spend their initial investment and then bid everybody adieu with no finished product on the shelves.

Just my 2 cents.

[fresquito]

I understand that, but they simply lied. They told they were creating the game the community wanted, and that's not true. They say the business model is not set yet, but they are not willing to consider opinions coming from the community (maybe if DLC will be 1,5€ o 2€, you know). They say they want to create a true sim, but when people ask for true damage model, they say it's a no. When people ask about hardcore career conditions as an option, they say it's a no. In the end, it's not the community project at all. We are just beta testers giving feedback and money, while we were promised we would have real input. If you look at the polls they've made so far, they're only content based and control related (what control device everyone is using). They never ask what kind of simulation we want, what kind of career mode we want, if we want real cars or real simulation of the cars. They never ask anything, except what circuits we want.

And Managers were supposed to have access to meeting boards. And know what? Those meeting boards don't exist. It's been three months and no meeting board has happened. Let me ask you something: do you believe they haven't had any meeting? Of course they're deciding the direction of the project, but I don't think Managers are deciding anything at all. I was promised I could read the logs, but no log has ever appeared. Have they gone silent? Are they working without any direction at all? No, but they won't share it.

In the end, you talk about business and I don't buy on that. That's the reason XCOM was being brought back to life as a shooter. Strategy games are dead and sims are dead, aren't they? But I ask, if there're lots of voices asking for something, why don't they bring it to us? They don't want to create the game the community want. They want to create a game they can win a lot of money from, it doesn't matter if it's far from what the community wants. They just jumped over the usual publisher because they thought publishers earn money from their work and because publishers were restricting their creativity. In the end they are acting like publishers and ignoring the community.

So, yeah, I'm not saying anything against pCARS, but WMD is a big lie and I will never trust SMS and Ian Bell again. In my eyes, they're using people. That's what I think.

[Blizzard]

Ian told me something via PM about when meetings are starting, so I'll let people know if I attend one.

[Neuromancer]

Would it be foolish to sign up and pitch in, solely because I want a console version? How certain are we that'll ever happen?

[Dilly]

Ian told me something via PM about when meetings are starting, so I'll let people know if I attend one.

Did you pay the 1000 dollars yourself because we have enough members? I'm not really following here.

[Foliorum Viridum]

Would it be foolish to sign up and pitch in, solely because I want a console version? How certain are we that'll ever happen?

Well with the WiiU thing today it seems like they're going ahead full steam on consoles.

[Blizzard]

Did you pay the 1000 dollars yourself because we have enough members? I'm not really following here.

Yeah, I liked the idea of the project so I did what I said I would. It's basically a gamble, but I'm hoping it works out, and hoping they eventually have meetings like they said.

What's the Wii-U thing today? I didn't hear about that.

[fresquito]

Well with the WiiU thing today it seems like they're going ahead full steam on consoles.

What thing?

[scitek]

What's the Wii-U thing today? I didn't hear about that.

What thing?

http://www.vg247.com/2012/01/23/wii-...-project-cars/

[Foliorum Viridum]

It was announced for the console.

Edir: Beaten by a few seconds!

[Jamesways]

Would it be foolish to sign up and pitch in, solely because I want a console version? How certain are we that'll ever happen?

I did. I may not have a PC to play the builds, but at least that way I can follow along in the WMD forum.

[mclaren777]

It was announced for the console.

They announced these plans in October. This is hardly news.

[Foliorum Viridum]

Well it's on all the major news sites and there's a topic about it here.

Don't get grumpy because they kicked you out of the party mate. ;)

[Blizzard]

Maybe it was in the works previously, but it just got added to their website in a more obvious fashion and that's why news stories are popping up about it.

[mclaren777]

Maybe it was in the works previously, but it just got added to their website in a more obvious fashion and that's why news stories are popping up about it.

It's sad that updating two image files counts as "news" these days. :/

[Ravensmash]

Maybe it was in the works previously, but it just got added to their website in a more obvious fashion and that's why news stories are popping up about it.

Yeah, I thought it was a PC exclusive title in all honesty.

[Foliorum Viridum]

It's sad that updating two image files counts as "news" these days. :/

More sad that you continue to troll this project.

[mclaren777]

Yeah, I thought it was a PC exclusive title in all honesty.

I was afraid this might happen.

Back in early November I told markao to change the thread title to "Project CARS -- New racing sim for PC/PS3/360/WiiU" but he declined. I push the issue further and said "I strongly recommend a title change because it informs people that it's for the PS3/360/WiiU" but he still wasn't interested (though [multi] was added to the title).

But SMS listed multi-platform development as one of its goals back in October. Whether they actually follow through with that is anybody's guess.

[fresquito]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/01/23/wii-...-project-cars/

How that has anything to do with Steam?

[Metalmurphy]

How that has anything to do with Steam?

LOL. It was a figure of speach. You know... "full steam ahead"

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/full+steam+ahead

How did you pick the Steam platform in a "full steam on consoles" sentence? oO

[Foliorum Viridum]

Ha, yeah, nothing to do with Steam.

It does raise the interesting question of content delivery, though. MS and Sony are really behind the times, and one would assume Nintendo would remain even further behind, but with this project they have a chance to open their platform up a bit.

There's 0.001% chance of it being what it should be on WiiU, but hey, let's hope.