[Gravijah]

Because I'm not.

you are missed :(

[Snakey]

I think it would be cool to see how Sakurai could reflect the puzzle genre in Lip's moveset somehow, yet at the same time I'm kind of worried to see Lip redone in order to appeal to the modern Japanese gamer. Let's just say that I can see Travis Touchdown taking a liking to her.

And that is the reason why I think Lip will never be playable in Smash Bros.

The most likely retro character that I can see getting a modern revival in Smash Bros. 4 is probably Mach Rider. The design aesthetic for the trophy in Melee was very appealing.

On the topic of female newcomers though. The most likely additions will be Palutena and/or Medusa. There is also the possibility that Dixie Kong might be added since she was planned for Brawl, though K. Rool has more requests than her both in the West and Japan.

I think Sakurai should add both goddesses in. They are definitely both aesthetically appealing, and will surely be recognizable characters assuming Kid Icarus Uprising is a massive retail success.

Other female characters I believe is just wishful thinking.

[Emitan]

I wish I was allowed to change my avatar.

[Ezalc]

Oh Hey Ezalc, I guess we are going to through other smash together are we? I want Little Mac, Takamaru, Issac/Matthew, Magus and Tom Nook. Tom Nook is just for a dumb reason. My friends hate animal crossing and I would love to beat them with the character that they hate most. :)

Yeah fun times ahead, buddy. Fun, rage filled, times ahead.

Little Mac is certainly deserving for inclusion, and is among the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase. However, there are two possible obstacles to his inclusion. One is that the Punch-Out series is not popular in Japan and Little Mac is not requested at all by the Japanese Smash fanbase. The second obstacle is that Sakurai might deem Little Mac "too boring" to warrant being given a playable spot (since all of his moves would likely only be punches). Sakurai excluded the Urban Champion for similar reaons, one of several characters that Sakurai had considered for the retro spot in Melee that later went to the Ice Climbers. His reason for excluding the Urban Champion was that "he could not do much of anything with him". In the original game of Urban Champion, all the titular character could do was punch and throw a bomb. On the topic of Japan-exclusive retro characters (Takamaru, Lip, Sukapon), the most likely of them to be made playable in Smash 4 is Takamaru, the main protagonist of Nazo no Murasame. Nazo no Murasame has become a cult hit in Japan, and Takamaru is among the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 among the Japanese Smash fanbase. Takamaru also had a prominent cameo in the Wii version of Samurai Warriors 3 (as well as being a major NPC in Captain Rainbow, though that game bombed). Takamaru's main obstacle though is that he is basically unknown to Western Smash fans. However, Sakurai has said he has no qualms with including Japan-exclusive character if he believes that they would have international appeal.

He completely made up movesets for Captain Falcon and Fox. Lil' Mac is a boxer it should be considerably easier thinking up a moveset for him, hell he could use throwbacks to other characters in his moveset. Like say (yes this is a terrible example but bear with me) there are plenty of pokemon moves that are punches. He could take one of them and give it to Lil' Mac as a kind of easter egg or something. Take moves from other fighters from Punch-out and etc. It really isn't that hard to make a moveset for a boxer.

Also another thing is that Sakurai is only catering to Japanese fans, now that's great but fuck this will be an international game. How about appealing to other fans as well. This is why I hate Sakurai it isn't because of some bitch fit that he didn't put obscure character number 23 in it's because he's kind of a selfish dick. His roster choices for Brawl were pretty ass, and from the looks of things some of those polls he did barely mattered. Any crossover game is a game for the fans, it's basically one giant fanservice game. Now he shouldn't take everything the fans suggest into consideration but he should at least think with the fans in mind, not just the Japanese fans either. And for fucks sake no damn clones or useless modes this time around.

[Gravijah]

I wish I was allowed to change my avatar.

you can change it to that other toph pic.

[Chet Rippo]

I wish I was allowed to change my avatar.

You're not?

[Snakey]

Also another thing is that Sakurai is only catering to Japanese fans, now that's great but fuck this will be an international game.

Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he does pay attention to requests outside of Japan. This has been inferred by his statements regarding the inclusion of Pit and Sonic. Sakurai mentioned on including Pit that Pit was popular in both Japan and America. Regarding Sonic's inclusion, he said he found out after he had decided most of the roster that Sonic was the most requested newcomer among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase.

So yes, Sakurai does get a memo about what the Western Smash Bros. fanbase wants.

[Emitan]

You're not?

If I change my avatar to something that's not Toph I keep getting people asking me in threads and PMs to change it back.

[Ezalc]

Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he does pay attention to requests outside of Japan. This has been inferred by his statements regarding the inclusion of Pit and Sonic. Sakurai mentioned on including Pit that Pit was popular in both Japan and America. Regarding Sonic's inclusion, he said he found out after he had decided most of the roster that Sonic was the most requested newcomer among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase. So yes, Sakurai does get a memo about what the Western Smash Bros. fanbase wants.

I kind of doubt that before Brawl Pit was more requested to be in Smash than Lil' Mac. As for Sonic he's always been requested like everywhere.

[Javier]

Considering how many different unique characters the Fire Emblem series has, one thing I'd love to see is the series getting its own Assist Trophy/Pokeball item that summons an FE character to assist the summoner. I suppose the Rescue Staff would fit for that.

I'm sure tons of people would be pleased that way.

[Ezalc]

Considering how many different unique characters the Fire Emblem series has, one thing I'd love to see is the series getting its own Assist Trophy/Pokeball item that summons an FE character to assist the summoner. I suppose the Rescue Staff would fit for that. I'm sure tons of people would be pleased that way.

Lyn was already an assist trophy in Brawl.

[Watch Da Birdie]

Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he does pay attention to requests outside of Japan. This has been inferred by his statements regarding the inclusion of Pit and Sonic. Sakurai mentioned on including Pit that Pit was popular in both Japan and America. Regarding Sonic's inclusion, he said he found out after he had decided most of the roster that Sonic was the most requested newcomer among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase. So yes, Sakurai does get a memo about what the Western Smash Bros. fanbase wants.

Yeah, isn't Sonic far more popular in the west?

You also have to consider that Zelda and Metroid aren't that popular in Japan I've heard, and they were given a place in the first Smash and enjoy a lot of representation. Pretty sure F-Zero is more popular in the West as well.

I guess you could say he doesn't ignore western contributions to Nintendo either since Donkey Kong was based off what Rare did with him.

[Snakey]

I kind of doubt that before Brawl Pit was more requested to be in Smash than Lil' Mac. As for Sonic he's always been requested like everywhere.

I have been following the Smash Bros. fanbase extensively since 2001, and I can assure you that Pit was by far the most requested retro character prior to Brawl's unveil.

On the matter of Sonic, Sakurai specifically mentioned that much of Sonic's requests came from the United States. Sonic is not popular at all in Japan.
Sakurai said this:
"At the time we announced Snake, we actually put together a survey for our users, asking which characters they would like to see in the game. And a huge amount of people said Sonic, epsecially in the United States."

[Javier]

Lyn was already an assist trophy in Brawl.

Uhh... yes? How does that change anything?

[Black-Wind]

I have been following the Smash Bros. fanbase extensively since 2001, and I can assure you that Pit was by far the most requested retro character prior to Brawl's unveil. On the matter of Sonic, Sakurai specifically mentioned that much of Sonic's requests came from the United States. Sonic is not popular at all in Japan. Sakurai said this: "At the time we announced Snake, we actually put together a survey for our users, asking which characters they would like to see in the game. And a huge amount of people said Sonic, epsecially in the United States."

I wouldn't take that as "the West is why Sonic got in".

Sonic could be the winner on both list according to what that quote said and he likely was the clear winner on both surveys.

[Professor Beef]

I had to look up what in the world Sukapon was. That shit is worse than Ballz 3D, damn.

[Boss Doggie]

Give Wolf a better Up B and have his normal attacks have some weird high priority, Sakurai.

Oh and make him crawl. I find it odd that his crouch is an all-fours but he couldn't crawl.

[Snakey]

Give Wolf a better Up B and have his normal attacks have some weird high priority, Sakurai. Oh and make him crawl. I find it odd that his crouch is an all-fours but he couldn't crawl.

Wolf is only five moves away from being a completely unique character. Same with Lucas. They only need different specials and a different Final Smash and then they are completely unique characters.

The only veteran series that need newcomers are Mario (Toad, Paper Mario, or Bowser Jr.), Metroid (Ridley), Donkey Kong (K. Rool or Dixie Kong), and Kid Icarus (Palutena and/or Medusa). Pokemon (and maybe Fire Emblem) will get their "flavors of the month". Also, bring back Mewtwo and Roy (perhaps even re-incorporate Dr. Mario as a costume).

Aside from that, I think Smash 4 should focus on Nintendo series that currently lack a playable character in Smash Bros. Miis from the "Wii" series, Little Mac from the Punch-Out series, Starfy from the Legendary Starfy series, Isaac/Matthew from the Golden Sun series, Saki from Sin & Punishment.

We are basically tapped out now for characters from Nintendo's veteran franchises (series that already have a playable character in Smash Bros.).

[IntelliHeath]

Wolf is only five moves away from being a completely unique character. Same with Lucas. They only need different specials and a different Final Smash and then they are completely unique characters. The only veteran series that need newcomers are Mario (Toad, Paper Mario, or Bowser Jr.), Metroid (Ridley), Donkey Kong (K. Rool or Dixie Kong), and Kid Icarus (Palutena and/or Medusa). Pokemon (and maybe Fire Emblem) will get their "flavors of the month". Also, bring back Mewtwo and Roy (perhaps even re-incorporate Dr. Mario as a costume). Aside from that, I think Smash 4 should focus on Nintendo series that currently lack a playable character in Smash Bros. Miis from the "Wii" series, Little Mac from the Punch-Out series, Starfy from the Legendary Starfy series, Isaac/Matthew from the Golden Sun series, Saki from Sin & Punishment. We are basically tapped out now for characters from Nintendo's veteran franchises (series that already have a playable character in Smash Bros.).

Well, we could see Magus for Kid Icarus. Also We should see Tom Nook for Animal Crossing serie, and Takamaru from mysterious castle.

[GamerSoul]

Little Mac is certainly deserving for inclusion, and is among the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 among the Western Smash Bros. fanbase. However, there are two possible obstacles to his inclusion. One is that the Punch-Out series is not popular in Japan and Little Mac is not requested at all by the Japanese Smash fanbase. The second obstacle is that Sakurai might deem Little Mac "too boring" to warrant being given a playable spot (since all of his moves would likely only be punches). Sakurai excluded the Urban Champion for similar reaons, one of several characters that Sakurai had considered for the retro spot in Melee that later went to the Ice Climbers. His reason for excluding the Urban Champion was that "he could not do much of anything with him". In the original game of Urban Champion, all the titular character could do was punch and throw a bomb. On the topic of Japan-exclusive retro characters (Takamaru, Lip, Sukapon), the most likely of them to be made playable in Smash 4 is Takamaru, the main protagonist of Nazo no Murasame. Nazo no Murasame has become a cult hit in Japan, and Takamaru is among the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 among the Japanese Smash fanbase. Takamaru also had a prominent cameo in the Wii version of Samurai Warriors 3 (as well as being a major NPC in Captain Rainbow, though that game bombed). Takamaru's main obstacle though is that he is basically unknown to Western Smash fans. However, Sakurai has said he has no qualms with including Japan-exclusive character if he believes that they would have international appeal.

Again with the nice info.
The simple solution would be to add Takamaru for the Japanese fanbase and add Mac for the Western fanbase. Everybady wins and it would make alot of sense. I for one would love to use and to learn about more Nintendo characters through smash. It seems like the right place and the best Nintendo compilation game to expose more people to more characters outside of the old Mario cast that's been featured in so many sport and party games.

And that is the reason why I think Lip will never be playable in Smash Bros. The most likely retro character that I can see getting a modern revival in Smash Bros. 4 is probably Mach Rider. The design aesthetic for the trophy in Melee was very appealing. On the topic of female newcomers though. The most likely additions will be Palutena and/or Medusa. There is also the possibility that Dixie Kong might be added since she was planned for Brawl, though K. Rool has more requests than her both in the West and Japan. I think Sakurai should add both goddesses in. They are definitely both aesthetically appealing, and will surely be recognizable characters assuming Kid Icarus Uprising is a massive retail success. Other female characters I believe is just wishful thinking.

I'm gonna say this every page till I lose all hope: Lyn and Capt. Syrup. lol. I think their inclusion, along with others that have a glimmer of hope, depends on how long they brainstorm and search for ideas. Also, hopefully the main storyline does not take away from the inclusion of more characters. I'd hate to see a good character idea get turned down because he/she won't fit in the story. If they don't fit, have them be unlockable later like wolf/Toon Link.

[Boss Doggie]

Wolf is only five moves away from being a completely unique character. Same with Lucas. They only need different specials and a different Final Smash and then they are completely unique characters.

They're already unique. Similar but different special attacks don't make them clones.

[Throavium]

Chrono Trigger characters, give them up Square.

[Snakey]

Well, we could see Magus for Kid Icarus. Also We should see Tom Nook for Animal Crossing serie, and Takamaru from mysterious castle.

Magnus:
Sakurai has stated that he is a relatively minor character in the story to Kid Icarus Uprising, and that his purpose is to contrast the strength of mankind with that of the goddesses' soldiers. Besides, he is not going to be featured in any of the OVAs that are being made for Kid Icarus Uprising. Pit will be the main subject of three OVAs, Palutena will the main character of two OVAs, while one will center around Medusa. It has become very clear that the main characters of Kid Icarus are Pit, Palutena, and Medusa. Magnus is very likely to become Kid Icarus's Assist Trophy though.

Tom Nook:
Sakurai has stated that the reason he did not give Animal Crossing a playable character was because that he felt the series did not lend itself to fighting and was pacifist in nature. However, Sakurai mentioned in an interview with Famitsu that at one point he was considering a playable Animal Crossing character, the main character you play as. He said that some possible ideas for its moveset included a fishing rod and a shovel. This idea was scrapped though very early on when he decided that fighting did not fit Animal Crossing's nature.

Takamaru:
I did not mention Takamaru in the above examples of "Nintendo series without a playable character" because technically Nazo no Murasame is not a series but rather a stand alone game. Nevertheless, Takamaru is BY FAR the most likely of the characters that you mentioned in your post. He is easily the most requested retro character by the Japanese Smash fanbase.

[Professor Beef]

They're already unique. Similar but different special attacks don't make them clones.

Pretty much this. Hell, I barely consider Fox and Falco clones because their move properties differ so much.

[PokéKong]

They're already unique. Similar but different special attacks don't make them clones.

In what sense are they not clones? All of their specials are modified versions of the exact same attacks, and they're not even in different weight classes.

A fact which I found very disappointing. The amount of effort put into Lucas seemed downright disrespectful, from a fan of the Mother series' perspective. I mean there's such a wide variety of PSI abilities, the functions and appearances of which are almost completely open to whatever interpretation the makers of Smash choose, yet they just take all of Ness' and tweak them a bit and call it good. And then of course PK Flash is the only one of their specials which either of them actually have in the games, if I wanna get extra nitpicky here.

[GamerSoul]

Lucas is pretty awesome so I can't complain. Idk wtf happened to Falcon and Ganondorf. yeesh.

[Snakey]

Lucas is pretty awesome so I can't complain. Idk wtf happened to Falcon and Ganondorf. yeesh.

Sakurai made Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon because he was aware of how requested he was and the only other character on the roster that had a similar body shape to him was Captain Falcon. Sakurai said if it were not for this, Ganondorf would not even have been playable in Melee.

Also, keep in mind that it was originally planned that Melee would only have 20 playable characters. However, with some development time left over to implement more characters, Sakurai decided to implement six "model swaps" (clones) before the game's release. Clone were not a sign that Melee was rushed, but rather an attempt to add even more content onto the game.

[PigSpeakers]

If I change my avatar to something that's not Toph I keep getting people asking me in threads and PMs to change it back.

That's strange. I have people publicly asking me to change my avatar.

[Mista Koo]

If I change my avatar to something that's not Toph I keep getting people asking me in threads and PMs to change it back.

You can dress up Toph as other characters, or other character as Toph.

No one cared when I changed my avatar :(

[GamerSoul]

Sakurai made Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon because he was aware of how requested he was and the only other character on the roster that had a similar body shape to him was Captain Falcon. Sakurai said if it were not for this, Ganondorf would not even have been playable in Melee. Also, keep in mind that it was originally planned that Melee would only have 20 playable characters. However, with some development time left over to implement more characters, Sakurai decided to implement six "model swaps" (clones) before the game's release. Clone were not a sign that Melee was rushed, but rather an attempt to add even more content onto the game.

I read your post before about Falcon and Ganon clone reason before so I kinda got the idea. I was actually talking more about their horrible transformation from Melee to Brawl.

20 characters would've suck so bad. I'm all up for more characters clones or not just atleast make them interesting and fun. Like I wouldn't mind if they used Samus for Megaman or ZSS for Lyn as long as they gave them each a move or two that would define how they are played. For example the Knee for Falcon or the Tipper for Marth.

My two cents one Fox, Falco, wolf. They all play differently but I think it the fct that they all 3 come from the same series that makes them feel dull over time to people who are not so into them. 2 is ok but 3...eh.

[Snakey]

Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all Star Fox needs. Especially considering how the most recent game in the series is a remake of Star Fox 64 (aka, the only good game of the series). Star Fox is basically the Lufia of Nintendo series (as in a mediocre series that has an amazing second game in its series).

Krystal is a horrible choice. The character is practically synonymous with the downfall of the Star Fox series. Also most people find the idea of an anthro-fox in a bikini to be squick. Besides, there is now Palutena and Medusa for staff based movesets.

[Black-Wind]

The only veteran series that need newcomers are Mario (Toad, Paper Mario, or Bowser Jr.), Metroid (Ridley), Donkey Kong (K. Rool or Dixie Kong), and Kid Icarus (Palutena and/or Medusa). Pokemon (and maybe Fire Emblem) will get their "flavors of the month". Also, bring back Mewtwo and Roy (perhaps even re-incorporate Dr. Mario as a costume). Aside from that, I think Smash 4 should focus on Nintendo series that currently lack a playable character in Smash Bros. Miis from the "Wii" series, Little Mac from the Punch-Out series, Starfy from the Legendary Starfy series, Isaac/Matthew from the Golden Sun series, Saki from Sin & Punishment. We are basically tapped out now for characters from Nintendo's veteran franchises (series that already have a playable character in Smash Bros.).

I'm sure Pokemon will get more than one new character. Melee got 2 and brawl got 4 (with the tragic loss of Mew2 ... I guess Pichu just evolved into Brawl Pikachu).

I would say that Lucario gets the boot in favor of Zoroark (or not, I don't care ... But I just Zoroark would be able to transform into the last player it hit or something which seems pretty meh for a gimmick. Would prefer Mew2 just replace Lucario), Mew2 comes back and some other Pokemon are added (Maybe P&M, Sakurai might still feel the need to go that route and they were pretty much the 3rd gen mascots so it makes sense he tried to put them in there. Along with that, maybe the 5th gen starters to contrast the 1st gen starters with a "Pokemon Rival" trainer. Or maybe they could take an elite 4 member/ Gym Leader/ Bad Guy and give them a team of Popular Pokemon).

Logically LoZ should get some other characters but it seems Sakurai only cares about focusing on the OoT part of LoZ. Would love to get a new LoZ enemy if only to make it so that the series had a bad guy that wasn't a clone ... and when it comes to a 2nd bad guy there's a ton of options.

Wario feels like it SHOULD get a 2nd character ... it has some options but ehh, IDK if any are important as I don't follow it closely.

And SF ... just put in Krystal using Dino-Staff skills. It would be nice to have a SF character that fights completely different to the others.

So no, I think all the vet series have valid reasons to get new Characters (Ridley is a no-go I'm sure. Sakurai made up some BS about him being to big but I'm sure it's because he is a big, lanky fuck who would be hell making hit boxes for as pointed out earlier in this thread).

I think SSB4 will be more focused on making a comeback for clones but using them in the correct way (as part of the customization of characters feature we know about) well also doing the same addiction of newcomers that we have come to expect (Big fat vet series get new characters, smaller series get one or 2 new characters and a few new series are added with 1-2 characters from their games)

[Snakey]

I'm sure Pokemon will get more than one new character. And SF ... just put in Krystal using Dino-Staff skills. It would be nice to have a SF character that fights completely different to the others. .

I wrote in that post that Pokemon's newcomer would likely consist of a "flavor of the month" and Mewtwo returning. Zoroark is pretty reduntant to add, especially coming off of Lucario. If a Black/White Pokemon were to be added, I think Victini would prove to be a better addition.

Also, Krystal has no point in being add (in addition to be a character that probably has more people hating her than actually has fans). If it is a staff-based moveset is all you want from her (and not a scantly clad anthro-fox), then Palutena and Medusa both offer staffs. Just look at the images I provided in my previous post.

Your comment on Ridley is also pretty ill-informed, however, I am sure that others in this thread have already commented on the foolishness of the size issue. With so few big name characters not yet playable, I am sure that Sakurai will be much more willing to take the time and patience to implement Ridley as a playable character this time (fyi, Sakurai said Ridley could be made into a playable character, but speed would be greatly compromised).

[Chet Rippo]

If you make an Amarant one I'm calling dibs man. Love me some Flaming Salamander.

I tried.

Also, Krystal has no point in being add (in addition to be a character that probably has more people hating her than actually has fans).

You'd be surprised.

[Snakey]

You'd be surprised.

I am well aware of how Krystal is the video game postergirl for the furries. I was talking about non-furries in my post.

[spanks]

Since most people just want Krystal for her staff-based moves, why not just give the staff to Fox? Traditional Fox players can still use Falco and Wolf, and three clones is too much anyway.
I realise it would seem crazy to most super-serious Smash players, but it's better than having Krystal, who pretty much represents everything that is wrong with Starfox since its descent into outsourced shit.

[GamerSoul]

Alright the KI Trio makes sense. Pit is already there and the other 2 can be a clone of the other making it a rather efficient addition. 4 Star Fox character is a bit too much. Other series will most likely have more precedent yet idk what to expect at this point honestly. we might get Daisy or some shit. It's Too early to get hyped at this point and make crazy demands for 6 unheard of characters. heh.

[Snakey]

Since most people just want Krystal for her staff-based moves, why not just give the staff to Fox? Traditional Fox players can still use Falco and Wolf, and three clones is too much anyway. I realise it would seem crazy to most super-serious Smash players, but it's better than having Krystal, who pretty much represents everything that is wrong with Starfox since its descent into outsourced shit.

Again, we now have not one but TWO characters that utilize staffs that are going to likely become very well known (and popular) in the next few months. And what is even grander about them is that Sakurai himself is very familiar with the characters (being the director for Kid Icarus Uprising) and can thus exploit most of their in-game abilities into their prospective movesets.

See one of my previous posts on this page to see what Palutena and Medusa look like.

[Black-Wind]

Krystal is a horrible choice. The character is practically synonymous with the downfall of the Star Fox series. Also most people find the idea of an anthro-fox in a bikini to be squick. Besides, there is now Palutena and Medusa for staff based movesets.

Krystal would have to get a redesign to fit in with the other SF members, much like Wolf was designed to fit in with Fox.

And I'm sure at least one of those 2 will be a mage. Palutena just reeks of "Zelda Treatment" as-in using cool stuff Pit gets because she doesn't directly fight in the game ... but who knows, maybe she has her own weapons in KI or the animes. If I had to guess I would say both are mages. Both of their staffs look like magical staffs, not combat staffs.

At the end of the day, I would like to see a damn SF character that doesn't fight anything like Fox.
(And for the record I loved the Dino game ... it was a great LoZ rip-off)

I wrote in that post that Pokemon's newcomer would likely consist of a "flavor of the month" and Mewtwo returning. Zoroark is pretty reduntant to add, especially coming off of Lucario. If a Black/White Pokemon were to be added, I think Victini would prove to be a better addition.

"Flavor of the month" basically means Zoroark seeing as it's supposed to serve the same purpose as Lucario for the 5th gen of Pokemon.
I was basically just saying "Mew2+Lucario or Zoroark + some other(s)". Much like with PT I'm sure he will pull another shocker.

Your comment on Ridley is also pretty ill-informed, however, I am sure that others in this thread have already commented on the foolishness of the size issue. With so few big name characters not yet playable, I am sure that Sakurai will be much more willing to take the time and patience to implement Ridley as a playable character this time (fyi, Sakurai said Ridley could be made into a playable character, but speed would be greatly compromised).

I would need a citation for that last bit.
I myself don't think Ridley is too big, that's simply my understanding of what Sakurai said some years ago (along with how he wouldn't be able to think of a move-set for Tom Nook and how Brawl's online isn't ranked because he doesn't want players to feel bad) after brawl came out that added to people being pissed at him.
I'm just saying, if he decided to make ZSS before an enemy character like Ridley then I wouldn't hold out much hope for it happening now.

I am well aware of how Krystal is the video game postergirl for the furries. I was talking about non-furries in my post.

"Furries" are a perfectly valid party in a fanbase. Not going into the details of how the term has been bastardized into giving the sexual impression you get when talking about it on the web but yeah, it's a common demo companies tap.

Even GF decided to market to "furries" (before I go too far the term just means "people who like anthropomorphic characters", doesn't have to be sexual) when they stopped making Pikachu knock-offs the mascots for new gens and used Lucario (an anthro jackal) and after seeing his success they made Zoroark (an anthro Fox).

People just like anthropomorphic characters, always have and always will. From Mickey Mouse to Bugs Bunny to the ThunderCats and Gargoyles.

[SuperAngelo64]

Are we talking about Geno yet?

[spanks]

Again, we now have not one but TWO characters that utilize staffs that are going to likely become very well known (and popular) in the next few months. And what is even grander about them is that Sakurai himself is very familiar with the characters (being the director for Kid Icarus Uprising) and can thus exploit most of their in-game abilities into their prospective movesets. See one of my previous posts on this page to see what Palutena and Medusa look like.

Part of the reason Krystal's staff would be cool is all the powers it has, like shooting fire/ice, making forcefields, creating quakes, rocket boost, etc.

I don't think the onslaught of Uprising characters is set in stone. Where is the precedent? Sakurai didn't add Metaknight or Dedede until a decade after he started on Smash. And that is for a fairly popular and long-running Nintendo series. Kid Icarus has had two games in nigh-on 30 years! People think that Roy was added for advertising reasons, but your FE post says otherwise. I mean, there is a good chance of one of them getting in, but going from one KI character to three, when classic Nintendo series like F-Zero or Mother only have one or two... Sakurai's not that egotistical, imo.

[Snakey]

Sakurai mentioned Ridley being possibly made into a playable character in an interview with Nintendo Power in the May 2008 issue.

"If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it (make Ridley playable). But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right?

Also, the Star Fox series has not had a truly new installment since 2006. Keep also in mind how sales to the series have nose-dived, with even 64 3D being the worst selling game to the series in Japan.

Star Fox does not need the same number of playable characters as the Zelda series (since Mario and Pokemon will likely have five slots in Smash 4). I think there are other series that deserve more attention for newcomers than something that has been stagnating since the Nintendo 64 (notably Donkey Kong and Metroid).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a better direction for Smash 4 would be if it derived more newcomers from lesser known Nintendo series (Punch-Out, Golden Sun, Starfy, etc.)

[Snakey]

I don't think the onslaught of Uprising characters is set in stone. Where is the precedent? Sakurai didn't add Metaknight or Dedede until a decade after he started on Smash. And that is for a fairly popular and long-running Nintendo series. Kid Icarus has had two games in nigh-on 30 years! People think that Roy was added for advertising reasons, but your FE post says otherwise. I mean, there is a good chance of one of them getting in, but going from one KI character to three, when classic Nintendo series like F-Zero or Mother only have one or two... Sakurai's not that egotistical, imo.

There are several aspects to your post that are either incorrect or need elaboration. The below points will describe what I objections or notes I felt are worth adding to the topic matter.

1. King Dedede was planned for Smash 64 (meaning a second Kirby character was planned since the beginning of the Smash Bros. series).

2. The hiatus for the Kid Icarus series is 20 years, not 30.

3. Kid Icarus Uprising will have been out for several years by the time Smash 4 is release, so Palutena and Medusa would not serve any advertising purpose.

4. F-Zero has not had a new game since 2004 (and the last two games it did get bombed very hard in sales). As such its understandable as to why the series is continued to be represented with only one playable character in the Smash Bros. series.

5. Mother is a series with only three games (two of which are Japan-only), and Itoi (the creator to the Mother series) himself has said that he considers the series to be over. Mother fans should be grateful that the series even got two playable characters considering these circumstances.

6. Adding Palutena and Medusa would not be out of pride if these characters were genuinely requested by the fans.

[Boss Doggie]

First off, despite using Krystal with a staff, that really wouldn't change her much since all of the known staff attacks are known to be duplicates of Fox's specials.

Second, Krystal's fanbase... is a whole different level. They're those "we're not furries but we like Krystal!" obsessive level kind of creepy. Also I find it hilarious that somehow furries didn't exist prior to Krystal who didn't find their "pleasure" over Fox, Falco or Wolf.

Note that I support the anti-Krystal group. I think the Star Fox trio are enough.

In what sense are they not clones? All of their specials are modified versions of the exact same attacks, and they're not even in different weight classes. A fact which I found very disappointing. The amount of effort put into Lucas seemed downright disrespectful, from a fan of the Mother series' perspective. I mean there's such a wide variety of PSI abilities, the functions and appearances of which are almost completely open to whatever interpretation the makers of Smash choose, yet they just take all of Ness' and tweak them a bit and call it good. And then of course PK Flash is the only one of their specials which either of them actually have in the games, if I wanna get extra nitpicky here.

Except being modified pretty much makes them unique. That's what makes them special. We're not even talking about the basic attacks and the character attributes which are definitely unique among Lucas and Wolf (Falco still has some clone tendencies though).

If people follow this logic Morrigan and Ryu are clones.

[The Xtortionist]

4. F-Zero has not had a new game since 2004 (and the last two games it did get bombed very hard in sales). As such its understandable as to why the series is continued to be represented with only one playable character in the Smash Bros. series.

Not having F-Zero for WiiU in the launch window would be a huge mistake imo. It's pretty much the most hardcore franchise they have.

Then Samurai Goroh can be in the next Smash. He can't lose in his Fire Stingray!

[Snakey]

Not having F-Zero for WiiU in the launch window would be a huge mistake imo. It's pretty much the most hardcore franchise they have. Then Samurai Goroh can be in the next Smash. He can't lose in his Fire Stingray!

Its such a shame that Nintendo has decided to retire the F-Zero series (or at the very least put it on hiatus). F-Zero GX was definitely among the best games on the GameCube. I am very surprised that a remake of F-Zero X with the Expansion Kit content added in is not in the works for the 3DS.

[corporate cheerleader]

The last F-Zero games deserved to bomb because they were bumper car simulators. Yeah I know it started off that way but X-GX have way better gameplay.

[Nocturnowl]

Not having F-Zero for WiiU in the launch window would be a huge mistake imo. It's pretty much the most hardcore franchise they have. Then Samurai Goroh can be in the next Smash. He can't lose in his Fire Stingray!

And just like that i'm imagining Goroh using his surprising gymnastic flips to enter his car, damn those GX cutscenes!

[The Xtortionist]

And just like that i'm imagining Goroh using his surprising gymnastic flips to enter his car, damn those GX cutscenes!

Mood music

That's his final smash. After shouting "I CAN'T LOSE IN MY FIRE STINGRAY!", he ninja backflips into the machine and runs everyone else over. This shit writes itself.

[Metal B]

He should be included, just for reason to give Ganondorf a new moveset. Black Shadow would be a better and logic fit for an alternative Captain Falcon-Playstyle. In this way Ganondorf can finally become a sword or other more fitting moves, wihout people miss his old playstyle, and we have another F-Zero character.