[cednym]

Zelda was added in the same game as Ganondorf.

Clones weren't planned from the get-go, and even then, Ganondorf was the last clone to be added. Sakurai specifically says on the Melee Dojo that Ganondorf was "lucky" and wouldn't have been in the game if his body structure didn't so closely resemble Captain Falcon's. Zelda and Sheik are two completely unique characters who were created much earlier than Ganondorf.

I could argue that Palutena is more likely than Medusa because there's a history of sidekicks getting in before villains. It's not a great argument either way.

[Boss Doggie]

F-Zero has a staggering amount of fabulous characters. An excerpt: Jack Levin, the teenage boy star. Baba, who, in F-Zero X, has the death scream of a woman, and of course his little video. Mr. EAD (reference to the EAD studio). Super Arrow (who is married to a female body builder). Phoenix (i.e. Captain Falcon from the future, more or less). And my personal favorite, Dr. Stewart, who is one of the 4 series veterans.

You forgot Octoman in speedos

[Nocturnowl]

You forgot Octoman in speedos

I just lost my shit

[Neiteio]

You forgot Octoman in speedos

Also forgot the twin aliens (one tall, one short) that share a psychic link and are depicted using the toilet together in GX.

But don't try and tell me you wouldn't bone Mrs. Arrow with the fury of a million raging boners.

[ScraftyDevil]

But don't try and tell me you wouldn't bone Mrs. Arrow with the fury of a million raging boners.

You worry me sometimes, Neiteio.

[BalrogTheMaster]

You forgot Octoman in speedos

See, we need THAT kind of character. Dayum.

[Boss Doggie]

But don't try and tell me you wouldn't bone Mrs. Arrow with the fury of a million raging boners.

I don't find any F-Zero characters appealing (yes even Kamen-I mean Captain Ripoff).

Though I guess Leon is there, because he reminds me of Wolf <_<

[Neiteio]

I don't find any F-Zero characters appealing (yes even Kamen-I mean Captain Ripoff). Though I guess Leon is there.

Isn't Leon a cat-man? But I guess judging from your avatar you're a furry, though I can't hate anymore because I saw this YouTube video of someone cosplaying Minerva Mink in a swimsuit by a pool and, well, it was kind of kinky! (I just hope it was a chick under there.)

Don't look at me like that, Scrafty. :-\

[BalrogTheMaster]

Don't look at me like that, Scrafty. :-\

[Boss Doggie]

Isn't Leon a cat-man?

Sorta? He looks like Wolf with a tail of a cat.

[Red Arremer]

Also forgot the twin aliens (one tall, one short) that share a psychic link and are depicted using the toilet together in GX.

Gomar and Shioh, but they are married.
Edit: Not with each other, but with a pair of women, who incidentally have exactly the same kind of relationship they do, as well.

But don't try and tell me you wouldn't bone Mrs. Arrow with the fury of a million raging boners.

I'd prefer other (male) characters, tbqh. Including Octoman. He does look kinda sexy. :3c

Sorta? He looks like Wolf with a tail of a cat.

Leon is indeed a kitty.

[Boss Doggie]

Leon is indeed a kitty.

He is? I always thought he's a wolf what with the muzzle (and Wolf reference). Hell, in the anime they made him werewolf.

[Bentendo]

You forgot Octoman in speedos

My God. What did I just watch?

[Red Arremer]

He is? I always thought he's a wolf what with the muzzle (and Wolf reference). Hell, in the anime they made him werewolf.

Dunno about the anime, but I've always understood him to be a feline; his tail, his face shape reminds me a lot of a lynx, and well, the name "Leon" means pretty much lion.
I mean, the uncanny similarity of his look with Wolf's as well as the name possibly referencing Leon from Star Fox is undeniable, as well.

Then again, he's an alien. He might as well be a hybrid or neither.

My God. What did I just watch?

The secret movie clip that the player is awarded for beating Master Class with Octoman in F-Zero GX.

[Boss Doggie]

Dunno about the anime, but I've always understood him to be a feline; his tail, his face shape reminds me a lot of a lynx, and well, the name "Leon" means pretty much lion. I mean, the uncanny similarity of his look with Wolf's as well as the name possibly referencing Leon from Star Fox is undeniable, as well. Then again, he's an alien. He might as well be a hybrid or neither.

His muzzle is too long to be that of a cat =/

But yeah, could be an alien mishmash of a wolf cat.

[Red Arremer]

Always been more of a Bio-Rex fan, myself.

[XeroSauce]

Oh man, unpopular opinion incoming, I HATE Scrafty, the design just annoys me.

Would be an interesting choice but there are more popular picks out there for "fighting" types.

[cednym]

Why is Scrafty so popular? Is it because of the anime? (I haven't watched that since I was nine.) Is he actually popular, or is he just another meme like Mudkip and Bidoof?

[ScraftyDevil]

Oh man, unpopular opinion incoming, I HATE Scrafty, the design just annoys me. Would be an interesting choice but there are more popular picks out there for "fighting" types.

As much as people expect me to rant and rave; I respect your opinion. I have Pokemon I don't like either, and I know they have their fans, too.

Might I ask why you dislike it, though? When BW first came out I wasn't too fond of it either, but it grew on me after I saw it and motion and witnessed how much personality it had. I'd love to hear your opinion on it, as well as who your favourite Pokemon is.

[Red Arremer]

I don't care about Pokemon in the least, haven't played the games since the Gameboy ones. Honestly, I don't give a damn about which Pokemon are included. Although the chandelier one of the newest generation would be badass. Or the shark-torpedo one.

[ScraftyDevil]

Why is Scrafty so popular? Is it because of the anime? (I haven't watched that since I was nine.) Is he actually popular, or is he just another meme like Mudkip and Bidoof?

Aside from being one of the best Pokemon to use in-game in BW, people like myself are fond of him because of his design and mannerisms.

He's definitely not a joke meme like Mudkip or Bidoof, though, so I guess there's that.

[Nocturnowl]

Oh man, unpopular opinion incoming, I HATE Scrafty, the design just annoys me. Would be an interesting choice but there are more popular picks out there for "fighting" types.

Like Primeape, feel free to join my Primeape for SSB4 campaign everyone, being part of the original 150 gives it a greater chance since this series loves those guys so much more for playable reps.

Gotta say I've been surprised by the Scrafy love, I like it but never figured it would be so popular, the first form won me over with the pants dropping animation.

[TreIII]

This is Roy. He might go for that Elton John style, but he's deffo male, especially in comparison to female koopas

Yeah, this. He might be originally based on Orbison, but his actual "characterization" (what little that exists) seems to be more in line with a gangster of the West Side Story variety. :lol

If they wanted to, I could imagine him having a sort of play-style where he uses his wand mainly like a lead pipe, along with other "dirty" moves like headbutts, further fitting that yankii vibe and making sure he's not a mere "clone" of his Pops.

[Green Mamba]

I honestly still don't feel Palutena is that certain myself. Seems to me like if they were gonna put another Kid Icarus character in it would be Medusa to give Pit an adversary like they did with Bowser, Wolf and Ganondorf.

Well, outside of the fact that Palutena handily beats out every other Kid Icarus character in likelihood even without Uprising, I have a hard time even picturing Medusa being anything more than a collectible trophy after how poorly Sakurai treated her in Uprising, making her into a boring stereotype with next to no screen time who is retroactively demoted and then casually tossed under a bus so as to make room for his own characters.

[XeroSauce]

As much as people expect me to rant and rave; I respect your opinion. I have Pokemon I don't like either, and I know they have their fans, too. Might I ask why you dislike it, though? When BW first came out I wasn't too fond of it either, but it grew on me after I saw it and motion and witnessed how much personality it had. I'd love to hear your opinion on it, as well as who your favourite Pokemon is.

Firstly, I dislike the strange human-clothes-like skin he has, it looks so strange to me. Feels like it's straight out of a young boy's sketchbook of "super cool Pokemon". I don't know what exactly it is about it.

Secondly, I dislike that the Pokemon has become "humanized" by the fanbase because of it's design. I appreciate the fact that it is a parody of the cliche of street kids and urban pokemon, but the fanbase takes that and stretches it to weird extremes with some of the pictures I've seen. A weird comparison would be Gardevoir, you know how the fanbase comsiders Gardevoir to be some weird sexy waifu symbol? That's strange, man, it's a Pokemon, keep it within the designer's limits.

Now I'm kind of wrong on a few fronts because I love Samurai Samurott and Haxorus's design (blades coming out of it's mouth is straight up EDGY COOL but it makes sense in my head based on the hunting and feeding situations that the Axew line would be situated in) and so I'm contradicting myself, but I just dislike the design of Scrafty. :(

EDIT: I cannot deny that it is HELLA useful in B/W, especially on Nuzlocke runs, dude has saved me so many times. I did eventually lose him. :/

[cednym]

Well, outside of the fact that Palutena handily beats out every other Kid Icarus character in likelihood even without Uprising, I have a hard time even picturing Medusa being anything more than a collectible trophy after how poorly Sakurai treated her in Uprising, making her into a boring stereotype with next to no screen time who is retroactively demoted and then casually tossed under a bus so as to make room for his own characters.

Additionally, I think it's interesting that Palutena got her own non-playable model in Brawl, featuring in one (or some?) of the Subspace Emissary cutscenes. Combined with her prominence in Uprising, I think Sakurai really likes her.

[Kjellson]

If Silicon Knights makes another Eternal Darkness there should be an ED represantive. Nintendo owns that franchise right?

[Neoriceisgood]

More so than any specific characters I want a level editor that uses actual tiles and parts from games.

SM, SMB2, SMB3 and SMW tilesets with their proper gameplay features for customizable "classic" stages like Mushroom Kingdom from N64 and Melee? I'd buy a new smash just for that feature alone.

[Scribble]

Every time I see this thread I think of Tingle.

Another reason he should be in is that Sakurai could implement a gimmick where Tingle would be slightly different depending on the colour costume you pick (it could be an aesthetic difference so it doesn't interfere with team mode). It goes wonderfully with there being different coloured Tingles in Wind Waker. So each costume is actually one of Tingle's relatives.

AND there can be some Tingle Tuner-y gimmick between The Wii U version and 3DS version.

Tingle has 'thematic'/stylistic ties to Mario, Wario, Zelda AND the Balloon Fighter series (and maybe even Kirby. AND if you like, we can be meta about it and say -- with the Koji Kondo thing -- it'd be like having a Nintendo employee as a newcomer, which is the next step up from 3rd party characters or R.O.B), so as long as we're all rationalising character additions, Tingle is the best thing for Smash Bros U ever. Let's not be silly about this.

[Snakey]

I think Palutena is most likely the only newcomer that Kid Icarus is EVER going to get. Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he will most likely never make another Kid Icarus game, and that another developer probably not touch Kid Icarus until another 25 years.

[McNum]

I seriously hope Shulk makes it in... or at least is considered... hell, I'd take just about anything

At the very least, the generic Beam Sword could be switched out for the Moando sword if Shulk isn't in. Same properties as the Beam Sword we have, just in Monado red.

I'd rather have Shulk himself, though. And preferably a stage, but I'd be happy with just Shulk.

[BGBW]

With the introduction of more characters I hope they streamline some of the unlock methods. I certainly don't look forward to playing the same modes over and over again with every character.

[McNum]

Subspace Emissary was pretty clean. Beat that, find the couple of hidden characters, and your roster is full. An adventure mode style unlock in the next Smash would be fine with me. That and the usual "play X matches" redundancies.

[Lord_Byron28]

With the introduction of more characters I hope they streamline some of the unlock methods. I certainly don't look forward to playing the same modes over and over again with every character.

In terms of character unlocks, I hope differently. I didn't like how almost every character was unlocked through SSE in Brawl. I prefered Melee's more random aproach and surprises.

[SmithnCo]

Subspace Emissary was pretty clean. Beat that, find the couple of hidden characters, and your roster is full. An adventure mode style unlock in the next Smash would be fine with me. That and the usual "play X matches" redundancies.

SSE wasn't that fun but I agree, it was a pretty streamlined way to unlock most characters ASAP. I kinda prefer the unique ways of unlocking though, that are tailored to every character and make you play every mode. They still had that though, which was nice.

[darkpaladinmfc]

With the introduction of more characters I hope they streamline some of the unlock methods. I certainly don't look forward to playing the same modes over and over again with every character.

Ideally everything will be unlocked from the beginning, but there's no chance that will ever happen.

[BGBW]

Well I wasn't referring to just characters, I include stages and music and so on. Beating Classic mode with every character is a pain in the arse.

[Thores]

With the introduction of more characters I hope they streamline some of the unlock methods. I certainly don't look forward to playing the same modes over and over again with every character.

This is a really good point. The few trophies I don't have are due to stuff like me not wanting to beat every level of Hit The Targets, 35 times each. Or was it 39? I forget whether you had to beat them with each transformation as well.

Edit: Since some people are discussing character unlocks specifically, I thought Brawl did it perfectly. Each character having three different unlock methods (Subspace Emissary, # of versus matches, and a unique character-specific method) meant you could have the whole roster relatively quickly, while still feeling the accomplishment of "earning" all of them. Plus in my unlocking spree I became familiar with pretty much every mode in the game. I hope they more or less keep that aspect in 4. I'm guessing I don't have much to worry about, seeing as it's kind of Sakurai's MO.

[SmithnCo]

Ideally everything will be unlocked from the beginning, but there's no chance that will ever happen.

Eh... I still think Smash is one game that could still benefit from unlocks. With games like UMVC3 you just want to go in and start learning the new characters... But with Smash I think it's less necessary to not split players like that and to keep some of the discovery that comes from unlocks.

Of course, you'd have to have a strong will to keep yourself unspoiled.

[Black-Wind]

I think Palutena is most likely the only newcomer that Kid Icarus is EVER going to get. Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he will most likely never make another Kid Icarus game, and that another developer probably not touch Kid Icarus until another 25 years.

If anything that makes me think it will either get no newcomers or 2-3.
Either to put it to rest (as in, no new comers cause it's not gonna get any new games from him apparently) or get as many of his babies in while the irons hot and they're still relevant. Gotta go hard or go home!

[cednym]

I'm bored, so I made a quick little move set for my most wanted (albeit unlikely) newcomer: Balloon Fighter. It's regarded as the sister game to Ice Climber, and it's had quite a few references in Melee and Brawl, so hopefully the character is somewhat possible…

I tried giving him the special moves that I see as the most plausible, using the other retro characters like Ice Climbers and Pit as points of reference. All the Ice Climbers do in their game is jump and swing their hammers vertically, but Sakurai condensed the essence of the Ice Climber game into a playable character, and that's what I tried to do here with things like the flipper.



His normal attacks would be a combination of things like headbutts, double kicks, and double stomps. These attacks are not affected by whether or not he has any balloons.

With one balloon, Balloon Fighter will quickly coast down at an angle following a jump. With two balloons, the coast will be a bit slower.

Standard Special Move: Balloon Pop

Balloon Fighter deliberately pops a balloon by reaching back and pricking it with a needle. This stuns any enemies in the immediate vicinity and deals a tiny bit of damage. If an opponent pops his balloons while he's airborne he'll be vulnerable and unable to attack on his way down, but if he uses this move to pop his own balloons in the air, he can follow up with other attacks.

Side Special Move: Flipper Throw

Balloon Fighter throws a flipper forward, which will stay on the screen for about 10 seconds. There can be 2 flippers on the screen at any given time.

Up Special Move: Flutter

Balloon Fighter flaps his arms like wings. This can be used up to 8 times in conjunction with his 2 regular jumps. Without any balloons, he'll just jump up a bit, flap his arms pathetically, and fall on his ass.

Down Special Move: Balloon Pump

Balloon Fighter quickly inflates a balloon; he can have up to 2 at once. (If used with 2 balloons, one of them will fill up with a bunch of air and then quickly go back to normal.)

Final Smash: Big Fish

Balloon Fighter flies up out of view and the big orange fish from Balloon Fight swoops past the stage, killing anyone caught in its mouth.

By replacing the flipper throw with a rupee or bomb, making his animations a bit more comical, and reducing the amount of flutter jumps, among other things, you'd get a fairly decent Tingle semi-clone joke character out of him.

[JJConrad]

I honestly still don't feel Palutena is that certain myself. Seems to me like if they were gonna put another Kid Icarus character in it would be Medusa to give Pit an adversary like they did with Bowser, Wolf and Ganondorf.

I can't see Palutena being a fighter, either. I can see Medusa, I can see Magnus, I can even see Pandora, Gaol, or Thantos. But I can't see any of Uprising's three main gods being playable without some serious downgrading and compromises to their characters.

By the way, for those who don't know who Shulk is: He'd be awesome as a character in this game, though I don't know how Sakurai would handle his extremely long range with the Monado (the red sword sitting beside him) when drawn; for those unaware the center of the "blade" of the sword opens up and a huge blue laser blade comes out of the center.

Shulk is my most wanted new character. I don't think the size of the Monado is a huge concern. Shulk strikes as being a bit on the small side to start, and they can always fudge the scale of the character and weapon to balance him out. The Monado normal range would still be less than what the beam sword can get up to.

F-Zero has a staggering amount of fabulous characters. An excerpt: Jack Levin, the teenage boy star. Baba, who, in F-Zero X, has the death scream of a woman, and of course his little video. Mr. EAD (reference to the EAD studio). Super Arrow (who is married to a female body builder). Phoenix (i.e. Captain Falcon from the future, more or less). And my personal favorite, Dr. Stewart, who is one of the 4 series veterans.

My personal favorite (although more for my amusement) would be James McCloud. His Final Smash would change him from a Captain Falcon clone to a Fox clone and back.

[cednym]

I can't see Palutena being a fighter, either. I can see Medusa, I can see Magnus, I can even see Pandora, Gaol, or Thantos. But I can't see any of Uprising's three main gods being playable without some serious downgrading and compromises to their characters.

This is literally the equivalent of saying "I can't see Zelda, but I can see Skull Kid and a bunch of other B-characters" during the pre-Melee days.

And I don't even know what you mean when you say "downgrading and compromises," but I'm hoping it has nothing to do with canonical power. This is the same series where a toy robot can hold its own against Ganondorf on an Electroplankton stage. Nothing matters.

[SmithnCo]

Palutena doesn't even seem THAT powerful. Nothing matters in fighting games anyway, when you can have Hulk fighting Phoenix Wright.

[TreIII]

Eh... I still think Smash is one game that could still benefit from unlocks. With games like UMVC3 you just want to go in and start learning the new characters... But with Smash I think it's less necessary to not split players like that and to keep some of the discovery that comes from unlocks. Of course, you'd have to have a strong will to keep yourself unspoiled.

Sure, you can have your unlocks. But why not dictate those unlocks to be things like stages, extra play modes, parts for stage creator and etc., instead of characters, who are easily the most poignant part of the gameplay for a game such as this?

The fastest way to actually unlock characters in Brawl takes about 2 hours, but it's a mind-numbing exercise that exploits the game's manual unlocking system to its limit. (That said, it's still an improvement over SSE, at least in my opinion! 8D)

But anyway, the fact that people wanted a means to unlock characters as fast as possible and/or didn't feel like going through Subspace (or again, in some cases) should be saying something. It also doesn't help that you can't even share memory card saves like with Melee years ago.

Speaking as a guy who had to go through the unlocking process for Brawl at least 4 times over to my memory (one being when my Wii died, the other helping friends along with their game saves), it's tedious. And I'd rather not have to do it all over again, just for characters alone.

[SmithnCo]

That's a good point, playing with friends who don't have everyone unlocked is a pain. It would kinda suck to lose the whole "Challenger Approaching" thing with the silhouette and the fight that follows though. Maybe they could have a quick unlock, or have your progress stored in a profile that you can import to unlock characters on another WiiU (but "lol nintendo online").

[cednym]

I like hidden characters, and after having had the Brawl ones spoiled to me, I'm going to steer clear of the forums after all of the starters have been announced. I want the hidden characters to surprise me as I play through the game.

[Thores]

I like hidden characters, and after having had the Brawl ones spoiled to me, I'm going to steer clear of the forums after all of the starters have been announced. I want the hidden characters to surprise me as I play through the game.

I want to do this too, since half the fun is the discovery. On the other hand, I don't have much faith in my self-control, depending on how far apart the JP and US releases are. Especially since I'll potentially have stakes in IntelliHeath's prediction thread, if that's still happening. I probably won't want to wait to see who had the best guesses after all this debate.

[TreIII]

That's a good point, playing with friends who don't have everyone unlocked is a pain. It would kinda suck to lose the whole "Challenger Approaching" thing with the silhouette and the fight that follows though. Maybe they could have a quick unlock, or have your progress stored in a profile that you can import to unlock characters on another WiiU (but "lol nintendo online").

OR...! WE CAN HAVE OPTIONAL MEMORY CARDS AND (more importantly) NO CONSOLE LOCKED SAVES AGAIN! 8D

Imagine it! Removable save media that you can take with you over to friends' places! Or to social gatherings on your college campus!

I mean, seriously. I don't get why Sakurai gimped what was such a perfect "party game" in the first entrants, but made things needlessly more complicated by Brawl. If I can't just bring the game and/or memory card over my bud's place and let the good times roll there unabated? That should have set off an alarm right there.

[Boss Doggie]

Firstly, I dislike the strange human-clothes-like skin he has, it looks so strange to me. Feels like it's straight out of a young boy's sketchbook of "super cool Pokemon". I don't know what exactly it is about it. Secondly, I dislike that the Pokemon has become "humanized" by the fanbase because of it's design. I appreciate the fact that it is a parody of the cliche of street kids and urban pokemon, but the fanbase takes that and stretches it to weird extremes with some of the pictures I've seen. A weird comparison would be Gardevoir, you know how the fanbase comsiders Gardevoir to be some weird sexy waifu symbol? That's strange, man, it's a Pokemon, keep it within the designer's limits. Now I'm kind of wrong on a few fronts because I love Samurai Samurott and Haxorus's design (blades coming out of it's mouth is straight up EDGY COOL but it makes sense in my head based on the hunting and feeding situations that the Axew line would be situated in) and so I'm contradicting myself, but I just dislike the design of Scrafty. :( EDIT: I cannot deny that it is HELLA useful in B/W, especially on Nuzlocke runs, dude has saved me so many times. I did eventually lose him. :/

I thought it was creative. They used the concept of lizard shedding and turned into a unique take by making it resemble pants. He's not human-shaped - it's just more like Pikachu or Piplup standing on their toes.

And bipedal Pokemon isn't unique this generation. Lots of original have bipedal evolutions.

As for Gardevoir... it has existed even during 150's. Fandom, yeah.