[Jarmel]

My proper impression of episode 20 was eaten by GAF so Here's just my prediction on the next episode. I don't think Rider was really responsible for Maiya's death and Ilyasviel's kidnapping, at least not willingly. This is for 2 reasons. 1) They were planning to rest until sundown, he wouldn't have risked pulling that at this point unless he was forced. That point was explicitly stressed in the script trying to draw our attention to that fact. 2) He didn't know the whereabouts of the Emiya mansion. However, Kotomine had just found out its location in the previous episode and with his obsession with Kirtsugu and having acquired archer he'd be very likely to be behind the attack. Rider's appearance could in turn be due to waver being kidnapped and Kotomine blackmailing him into using one of his command spells to order the attack. This whole thing was done to draw out Kiritsugu and Saber.

Why though? Gilgamesh taking Iri would be just as effective in regards to their overall goals. My thought on the matter was that Rider is doing this as to not involve Waver in the matter. One of Rider's concerns, it seems, is getting Waver out of this alive.

[Basileus777]

Why though? Gilgamesh taking Iri would be just as effective in regards to their overall goals. My thought on the matter was that Rider is doing this as to not involve Waver in the matter. One of Rider's concerns, it seems, is getting Waver out of this alive.

This could be true, but Gilgamesh is obsessed with making Saber suffer, it could just be another way to troll and test her.

[duckroll]

My proper impression of episode 20 was eaten by GAF so Here's just my prediction on the next episode. I don't think Rider was really responsible for Maiya's death and Ilyasviel's kidnapping, at least not willingly. This is for 2 reasons. 1) They were planning to rest until sundown, he wouldn't have risked pulling that at this point unless he was forced. That point was explicitly stressed in the script trying to draw our attention to that fact. 2) He didn't know the whereabouts of the Emiya mansion. However, Kotomine had just found out its location in the previous episode and with his obsession with Kirtsugu and having acquired archer he'd be very likely to be behind the attack. Rider's appearance could in turn be due to waver being kidnapped and Kotomine blackmailing him into using one of his command spells to order the attack. This whole thing was done to draw out Kiritsugu and Saber.

[Fate/Zero] - 20 This really wasn't supposed to happen. Everything that we've been told in the episode really led us in the wrong direction. For starters, Rider and Waver are supposed to be resting and recovering, with Rider specifically saying that he will need till nightfall to recover completely. They don't appear to readying any kind of attack. In fact, we actually fear that they're going to be attacked while they're resting by Saber, who we know is looking for them at the behest of Kiritsugu. That's why it's even more amazing when the REVERSE happens and Iri is the one caught unawareness, our expectations have been completely turned on their head. I really like how Rider appears in this scene, or rather, how he doesn't. He attacks like some off-screen move monster and they make sure never to show him in shot fully to make his appearance and action more frightening to those who have been attacked. Also, this makes us question why Rider is operating on his own at this point because this doesn't seem like the kind of thing that Waver would plot. As has been mentioned above Rider's appearance and actions really aren't in line with what we've seen so far and so coercion makes a lot of sense.. Great stuff all round.

Having thought about it some more, I think there are some holes in this theory.

While the script does draw attention that Rider would only have recovered enough by nightfall, I wouldn't take it to mean literally that they had to wait until it is dark to attack. If Rider has a plan, he would be able to put it into action by evening. The point of the scene was that Waver was going to be resting in the middle of nowhere for most of the day, nothing more.

Furthermore, Rider had already made it clear that they should start with Saber, and while we don't know for certain if Rider knows the location of their hideout, I wouldn't rule it out either. Remember that out of all the Servants, Rider is the one who has been known to fly around the city on his own initiative, and being a conqueror he is very familiar with the need to determine where the enemy is in advance, and strike when you have the chance. The dialogue back in ep9 made it obvious that Rider is in favor of attacking head on, which isn't very different here.

But even with all these points, it is still possible that the attack was forced by a third party. What I feel doesn't make sense though, is how that is likely. Waver might not be an experienced mage, but he's not incompetent. Like all mages, he can sense the presence of other Servants, so it is unlikely that Gilgamesh would be able to get anywhere near the area without Rider materializing in defense. Kirei approaching on his own is possible, but Rider would also be able to materialize and stop him. It would be suicide for Kirei to make such a rash move against such a strong Servant.

One thing we should note is that the end of the scene with Waver concludes with him saying "do whatever you want." This is the act of consent indicates to me that he is giving Rider permission to formulate his own plan of action, and what follows is likely to be 100% Rider, and not something Waver cooked up. For all we know, Waver could still be sleeping.

Why though? Gilgamesh taking Iri would be just as effective in regards to their overall goals. My thought on the matter was that Rider is doing this as to not involve Waver in the matter. One of Rider's concerns, it seems, is getting Waver out of this alive.

This seems like a more likely possibility. Rider is playing dirty and doing things which he does not want to burden Waver with, but needs to be done. This is also a personal agenda for him because he wants to prove to Saber that she is wrong, and it is unlikely he has much respect or concern with the people she is affiliated with.

I also find it unlikely that Gilgamesh would go along with some contrived scheme to make Rider and Saber fight each other, when he already knows they will end up fighting anyway. It would also be unusual for there to be a sudden focus on drawing Saber out, when the immediate interest of Kirei seems to be Kariya. Why would he drop his new toy and go play with something else he has shown no interest in previously? He doesn't care about Saber, only Kiritsugu.

[Theonik]

I also find it unlikely that Gilgamesh would go along with some contrived scheme to make Rider and Saber fight each other, when he already knows they will end up fighting anyway. It would also be unusual for there to be a sudden focus on drawing Saber out, when the immediate interest of Kirei seems to be Kariya. Why would he drop his new toy and go play with something else he has shown no interest in previously? He doesn't care about Saber, only Kiritsugu.[/spoiler]

Gilgamesh likes to watch, he wants Saber and Rider to fight so he can fight the winner, Kirei wants to occupy Saber so he can deal with Kiritsugu himself. Another point I forgot to mention is that while Rider is a conqueror, he's not the type that would stoop to such cowardly tactics like kidnapping a defenseless person and using them as bait, his character seems to fit the kind of person that would find Saber and attack her outright. Last thing I forgot to mention is that the name of the episode was "the return of assassin" and Kirei while no longer the master of assassin (to our knowledge) is the only one linked to assassin so the name could mean "the return of Kirei"
Of course this is just a theory and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true I just think it's possible. We'll have to wait till Saturday.

[Cwarrior]

Fate zero ep20

Last minute character development a cheap tactic in try to get you to care about a character's death ,I dislike that, it's overused by anime, episode was decent thanks to the dialogue being interesting.

it's obvious that wasn't rider but someone pretending to be him, church guys behind it, most likely with the aid of assassin the next episode title being assassin

2D beserker the hero we deserve

[shintoki]

This really wasn't supposed to happen. Everything that we've been told in the episode really led us in the wrong direction. For starters, Rider and Waver are supposed to be resting and recovering, with Rider specifically saying that he will need till nightfall to recover completely. They don't appear to readying any kind of attack. In fact, we actually fear that they're going to be attacked while they're resting by Saber, who we know is looking for them at the behest of Kiritsugu. That's why it's even more amazing when the REVERSE happens and Iri is the one caught unawareness, our expectations have been completely turned on their head. I really like how Rider appears in this scene, or rather, how he doesn't. He attacks like some off-screen move monster and they make sure never to show him in shot fully to make his appearance and action more frightening to those who have been attacked. Also, this makes us question why Rider is operating on his own at this point because this doesn't seem like the kind of thing that Waver would plot. As has been mentioned above Rider's appearance and actions really aren't in line with what we've seen so far and so coercion makes a lot of sense.. Great stuff all round.

Are we honestly supposed to think its Rider at all? I never got the impression it was him at all. They show Kitsu finding out all that happened a few episodes ago, followed by "Rider" busting in. But never a clear shot, just enough to make it think that it is him. Not to mention it doesn't fit his personality at all. The bits about recovering. Etc. Honestly, I'm going be disappointed if Kitsu falls for it. He seems too smart to fall for this shit. Of both parties weakening each other, while the 3rd swoops in. Then again, he announced how he was shooting too many episodes ago. =[

The biggest thing point has been the build up towards the Archer vs Rider fight.

[darkside31337]

Just got around to watching 20 and its a great ep like usual.

Speculation here is interesting, Rider and Waver's sudden change of plans is pretty crazy and the choreography of the last fight was pretty awesome, assuming it was done intentionally for those reasons and that seems like a given with this show.

But I think people are making a bit of a false assumption here. It seems like everybody is narrowing the developments of this episode down to Kotomine / Waver / Kerrytugu and just intentionally forgetting about Kariya. Heck they brought him back this episode just to remind you he's still bugging around!

Kotomine has always been crushing on Kariya throughout the show, and he really is easy pray, just look at how badly he's been owned by Zouken the whole show.

[RyougaSaotome]

But I think people are making a bit of a false assumption here. It seems like everybody is narrowing the developments of this episode down to Kotomine / Waver / Kerrytugu and just intentionally forgetting about Kariya. Heck they brought him back this episode just to remind you he's still bugging around! Kotomine has always been crushing on Kariya throughout the show, and he really is easy pray, just look at how badly he's been owned by Zouken the whole show.

This.

I felt like the reminder they gave us this episode concerning Kariya is a big hint toward who 'Rider' actually is. He got that new bug from Zouken, right? If Berserker is who I think it is, this would be a perfect set up to make Saber suffer; imitate Rider and force them into a battle, only to reveal in the end that Rider wasn't even the one who murdered Maiya and kidnapped Iris in the first place. That'd deal a major psychological blow to Saber.

That's just my take on it though.

[Basileus777]

Berserker is insane so that sort of scheming is probably beyond him, but I suppose Kariya could think of a plan like that. Kidnap Iri and trigger a battle between two of your remaining opponents in the hope that one of them dies and you can ambush the survivor.

[RyougaSaotome]

Berserker is insane so that sort of scheming is probably beyond him, but I suppose Kariya could think of a plan like that. Kidnap Iri and trigger a battle between two of your remaining opponents in the hope that one of them dies and you can ambush the survivor.

Maybe, but it's also clear he has it out for Saber and it's already been implied that he can sort of maybe communicate with Kariya in a way that isn't 'KILL EVERYTHING NAO'. He did have that brief, unpleasant conversation with him in his mind last episode.

[duckroll]

Ep21 preview screens (ep20 spoilers!): http://moca-news.net/article/20120523/201205232337a/01/

"Knight on Two Wheels"
Episode Director: Akihiko Uda
Storyboard: Ei Aoki
Animation Directors: Takuro Takahashi, Toshiyuki Shirai

[/XX/]

Hey, duckroll... no mention of Katsushi Ōta's message from his twitter account (http://twitter.com/FAUST_editor_J/st...08475645644800)? It probably will be something related to TYPE-MOON and ufotable, right? As this editor has revealed scoops from both as editor of Kodansha Ltd., close to the two entities.

And the guy acts surprised that he got so much 're-tweets'...

[duckroll]

Hey, duckroll... no mention of Katsushi Ōta's message from his twitter account (http://twitter.com/FAUST_editor_J/st...08475645644800)? It probably will be something related to TYPE-MOON and ufotable, right? As this editor has revealed scoops from both as editor of Kodansha Ltd., close to the two entities. And the guy acts surprised that he got so much 're-tweets'...

No, it doesn't have to be related to Type-Moon or Ufotable. In fact, it is very unlikely to have anything to do with animation at all, so I didn't see the point in mentioning it. Pretty much no one on NeoGAF would care about the stuff that Seikaisha mainly does. The last time they ran a big TVCM during Fate/Zero, they were promoting their Red Dragon project.

[/XX/]

No, it doesn't have to be related to Type-Moon or Ufotable. In fact, it is very unlikely to have anything to do with animation at all, so I didn't see the point in mentioning it. Pretty much no one on NeoGAF would care about the stuff that Seikaisha mainly does. The last time they ran a big TVCM during Fate/Zero, they were promoting their Red Dragon project.

Well... as he used that same twitter account to hint at things not strictly related to their editorial (see own publication) works, like what he said about what would end up being the Minori Scramble! adaptation (http://twitter.com/FAUST_editor_J/status/24212483068), I thought maybe it would be related in that way. Anyway, yeah... what you say is the most probable answer, that is why I asked instead of posting the information directly... thanks!

[duckroll]

Well... as he used that same twitter account to hint at things not strictly related to their editorial (see own publication) works, like what he said about what would end up being the Minori Scramble! adaptation (http://twitter.com/FAUST_editor_J/status/24212483068), I thought maybe it would be related to that. Anyway, yeah... what you say is the most probable answer, that is why I asked instead of posting the information directly... thanks!

Well in his recent tweet, he specifically says that during the final episode of Fate/Zero there is a Seikaisha TVCM announcing something they have been planning for a while. That's why I don't really think there would be much point in getting people potentially excited. I'm sorry I can't get more excited about this, but I certainly hope it is something interesting instead.

[/XX/]

Well in his recent tweet, he specifically says that during the final episode of Fate/Zero there is a Seikaisha TVCM announcing something they have been planning for a while. That's why I don't really think there would be much point in getting people potentially excited. I'm sorry I can't get more excited about this, but I certainly hope it is something interesting instead.

Oh, did he said that? Nevermind then... forget what I've said. Sorry! This is what I get for not knowing the language...

[kayos90]

That's an interesting name for Episode 21. Hmm...

[Ultimadrago]

Fate/Zero 20

Anyways, very, very late on these. Therefore, super short impressions today.

As to speaking with the heavens.

Seriously, the extra input on the thoughts of Rider and a few of his headstrong actions was a real treat. As my favorite, it's great that the show went back and made sure the investment in the character was reassured and stable after a couple of episodes with no sign of their presence.

Could one of you "scholarly types" aid me in contrasting this scene with the previous one posted?

Question for duckroll/Jex/etc:

So the camera faces towards the sky during the conversation between Rider and Waver. Rider is speaking about his concern with Waver losing his life if his mana was expended.

However, he then states that if the location of the Grail was certain, he would have little problem sacrificing Waver. Which falls into the bottom screen where the same shot is made, but with an flying vehicle (even the audible included) intercepting the shot.

Now, my though upon the first shot was Rider speaking down upon Waver almost as a deity, protecting spirit, God, etc. Seeing the second shot, where Waver exclaiming that he is Rider's Master. My mind shifted to a jet or plane being man-made and cutting a clear stream through the cloud shot. Taking away or distracting from the full view of the sky, turning the mindset from an "all-powerful, all-seeing" being, to one that can be used to fulfill man's own desires. Taking the view of pure power away from the deity and focusing on the power of mortals in tandem instead.

Any better interpretations? I feel that there was some meaning in those two somewhere and I enjoyed this interaction so I'd like to understand the cinematography and storyboard better.

Now that I got that out of my system...Great follow-up episode. Though Maya talking of her past and expecting to die not long before she's taken out didn't flow well with me. I was fond of some of her last words toward Kiritsugu however, "You are weak." It seems the human we saw in Kiritsugu those past episodes isn't completely gone.

Anyhow, I am ready for the action that is bound to go down in the next episode!

[duckroll]

My interpretation of the shot is pretty simple. First and foremost, I think it's a visual homage to Lost. I think there's a thematic homage too, but I don't really want to randomly spoil Lost for those who haven't seen it.

But in terms of what it means for Fate/Zero specifically: I don't think there's a particularly deep meaning to it other than Waver lying down relaxed and looking into the clear sky representing how he is clearing the air with Rider. They both tell each other exactly how they feel and once again they are at peace with themselves and each other. When Rider provides a chance for Waver to step away from the Grail War entirely by telling him the Grail might not be real, Waver rejects it and puts his foot down - the plane flying across the sky is a reminder that at any time Waver could just fly back home and walk away from all this, but Waver watching it go by in this moment hammers home the point that he's determined to stay and fight instead. He is accepting his place in the conflict, and after this he loses interest in further discussion and starts falling asleep.

That's how I see it.

[Ultimadrago]

Alright, thanks. That definitely sounds more "down-to-Earth", hah.

[Jexhius]

Having thought about it some more, I think there are some holes in this theory. While the script does draw attention that Rider would only have recovered enough by nightfall, I wouldn't take it to mean literally that they had to wait until it is dark to attack. If Rider has a plan, he would be able to put it into action by evening. The point of the scene was that Waver was going to be resting in the middle of nowhere for most of the day, nothing more.

Oh, I wasn't trying to indicate that I backed the coercion theory. I was mainly talking about how carefully crafted all the scenes where to make the audience think that Saber would be attacking Waver, when in the end something completely different happened. I was largely commending the craftsmanship in the direction.

[kayos90]

So I just resaw Episode 20 and I noticed that the shot doesn't really show Rider with a chariot. The shot is angled to show just Rider and Iri in the closeup and him as a dot for the faraway shot. So... for those saying it's not actually Rider, you're probably right.

[duckroll]

Anyone needs Fate/Zero twitter icons or avatars? :D

http://www.fate-zero.jp/present/icon.html

[kayos90]

Anyone needs Fate/Zero twitter icons or avatars? :D http://www.fate-zero.jp/present/icon.html

Why are they boxes? And why is gil on his side? Lol?

[InfiniteNine]

Fate/Zero 21 on Niconico right now~!

[duckroll]

Yup, it's time!!

Fate/Zero #21 Knight on Two Wheels: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1338043988

[Theonik]

Ep 21 stuff:
Ha! I knew it had to be some Kirei plotting going on, guess I should have gone with my alternative expectation of it not being Rider at all but some other servant. Matou working for Kirei though was bit unexpected given we were give the impression he was too busy being raped by worms. That's a neat skill Berserker has there. Also this episode once again proves why Saber is the best servant!
Great direction as always, I really loved how they handled the choking scene with the camera blacking out and blinking as Kariya was going mad. Sad end for Rin's mom. :(

[Dedication Through Light]

Ep 21

Alright, I guess. So glad that team Waver (and rider) makes it through one more week. Glorious visuals during the skirmish. Otherwise much of the rest was kind of dull. Though I did like the Kariya happenings.

Didnt understand the kirei kotomine and the older mage discussion nor what Gilgamesh was even planning with with him. The anime would be easier to follow and wrap my head around if it was more doing instead of talking so much.

[InsaneZero]

Fate/Zero Episode 21

KOTOMINE

KIREIIIIIIIIIIIII



Yeah, I'll put up more coherent thoughts later, but KOTOMINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[InfiniteNine]

Fate/Zero Episode 21:

There is nothing like the taste of a nicely aged wine eh?

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Cross posting from the anime thread:
Fate/Zero 21:
Geez, that was just insane. This show is just...wow.

Kirei is definitely one of the most fascinating characters I can think of in any anime, and his journey just continues to get better. Like his newfound partner in crime, I just find his journey of discovering entertaining to watch.

We also finally get to see more of Kariya, and I think he comes across in a very interesting way here. His breakdown in the church was just crazy, and him killing Aoi was...wow. Kirei is definitely a sadistic bastard arranging all of that. I couldn't help but feeling both shocked and sad watching Kariya strangle the life out of Aoi (although I kind of expected him to do something improper with her body after she died; what does that say about me?). And then we cut back to Kirei and Gilgamesh watching the whole thing while drinking wine. I love it. Their dialogue is always one of the real highlights of the show. In both what they say, and what they left unsaid. Kirei talking about how the taste is different than he remembers is one such great line, because it reveals information about how his outlook has changed, but it does so through the filter of Kirei's own way of speaking and thinking.

Fate/Zero Episode 21 KOTOMINE KIREIIIIIIIIIIIII Yeah, I'll put up more coherent thoughts later, but KOTOMINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Kirei...like a boss.

[duckroll]

I give up. I can't think of anything worthwhile to say today, other than...

Episode 21

I don't like Kirei when he smiles. I like him even less when he is enjoying himself. And next week's episode title just sounds all sorts of bad! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Okay, okay, I promise I'll have a good proper post up tomorrow!

[kayos90]

Ohhhh snap. This episode was so good. Maybe it's because last week's wasn't but man... Next week is going to be awesome with Rider vs ???? by the looks of it.

[InsaneZero]

Fate/Zero Episode 21

The bike scene was rather lacking at the finale, which had to do with the scene not really being portrayed properly from the novelization: Regarding the last scene with Excalibur, having Saber move first rather than Rider makes her appear to be the one initiating the showdown rather than Rider. By the time Saber made a stop after hitting Rider first, Rider has already turned around to face Saber head-on. However, in the anime Saber has already left the bike and readied herself into a fighting stance while Rider is still getting ready. A small change, but it changes the entire atmosphere. Saber is supposed to have attacked only because Rider was unwilling to let Saber get away from this confrontation to actually chase Irisviel. Instead, it appears that Saber was going to attack Rider, who is all too happy to oblige. Saber's absolute urgency to find Irisiviel is lost in the translation.

There's also another change in the next scene in the bike battle, where Rider is hanging on a tree while also holding Waver. The original has him on the ground with his sword out, ready for a sword fight against Saber, who doesn't care and simply jets off. The former would make more sense for Saber to simply run away without doing anything, since he's still in a position to fight. In the anime he's just completely helpless and yet Saber doesn't bother to take advantage of the opportunity. It's a rather odd change that doesn't really have much point to it at all.

[Branduil]

Here's what I didn't get... who the heck was the guy Kiritsugu was torturing in the Matous' mansion? I don't think we've ever seen that character before.

[Theonik]

Here's what I didn't get... who the heck was the guy Kiritsugu was torturing in the Matous' mansion? I don't think we've ever seen that character before.

Probably some un-named henchman/bodyguard etc

[Branduil]

Probably some un-named henchman/bodyguard etc

Just seemed kind of weird the way they presented it... and here's Kiritsugu torturing a random dude! If they'd at least shown the guy hanging out in the Matou mansion before it wouldn't seem so odd.

[3Kaze]

Here's what I didn't get... who the heck was the guy Kiritsugu was torturing in the Matous' mansion? I don't think we've ever seen that character before.

It's Kariya's brother. Zouken said in ep 1 that Kariya left the house, and his other son was worthless iirc.

[InfiniteNine]

FSN Spoiler maybe:
Well since because of how his hair looked I'm guessing it's Shinji's father

[Branduil]

It's Kariya's brother. Zouken said in ep 1 that Kariya left the house, and his other son was worthless iirc.

LOL, really? That makes it an even sillier introduction.

[duckroll]

Episode 21

I've been looking forward to this episode for a LONG time, ever since Good Smile Company started pimping the Saber bike figure. The design was always very attractive to me, and I've really enjoyed the way Ufotable used CG in this series, so it's been a long wait to finally see it in action. I definitely wasn't disappointed by the bike action. The camera work was great, and the way the movement and speed was animated was really impressive. I have some issues with how the chase was resolved at the end, but I'll discuss that further in the spoiler zone.

As for the rest of the episode, there were some MAJOR developments here regarding character relations and power plays, and where things stood in relation to each other. I think that ultimately it's stuff like this that really makes the series what it is. The character dynamics, the thrill and intrigue, and how things play out. The action is always impressive, but it has always been a secondary part of the production.

Before I get into the spoiler zone, I'll like to mention some interesting stuff I noticed on the production side of things for this episode. While this week's episode was storyboarded by the director Ei Aoki, there were also five storyboard clean-up artists involved.

This was pretty odd, and I wondered if it was something like the case with ep8, where there were three storyboard clean-up artists who were senior Ufotable staff, and the episode was split in terms of animation production as well probably due to time. But further research told me that this was no the case.

This is when it gets really interesting. Our of the five clean-up artists, one of them is the unit director of the episode, while the remaining four are all junior staff from Ufotable. They are all key animators who have worked on the OP/EDs and many episodes of Fate/Zero, but before this they were mostly in-betweeners at the studio. This led me to the realization that this is probably similar to what Kondo spoke about with regards to how Takashi Suhara was given a chance to clean up storyboards for Garden of Sinners, to train him for storyboarding/directing later.

Ufotable is a studio where staff are all encouraged to learn multiple skills and be able to apply them across various disciplines instead of just a single task. This is why their production staff and their animators also get involved in other tasks like writing screenplays, storyboarding, art design, episode direction, photography, etc. Considering how F/Z is their major production right now, I believe this is just another way where they are giving chances for their junior staff to learn new things, and practice on a real major production.

Now, on to spoilers...

I really like how they got straight into the "action" this week, and for the audience they really cleared up the Rider thing very quickly. Once I saw "Rider" jumping from rooftops, it became immediately obvious that they were duped. Obviously only the dumbest Servant of them all would not realize this immediate. Saber probably has D- in Intelligence. Sucks 2 b her.

The entire race against the real Rider was really awesome though. GREAT camera work as always, and really solid effects and motion. I loved how kept most of the action framed in a very steady and subdued manner, because it really lends well to the overall "live action" feel of how the show is directed.

Unfortunately, the conclusion of the race is where the writing gets really puzzling for me. Saber seemed to have no issues with announcing her challenge after flying off the cliff, by shouting Rider's name, and right after that it seems before they even clashed she realized something was wrong and sort of hesitated. Yet when she lands on the ground, knowing that Irisviel is not at the scene, she doesn't seem to actually talk to Rider or try to clear anything up.

Instead the scene breaks off, and when we return, both sides are already ready to fight it out without saying anything to each other at all. This leads me to wonder if there is a scene missing on the broadcast version where Saber tries to reason with Rider, but he wants to defeat her so badly he won't let her leave even though she knows they're not involved. If there is such a scene, it would also explain why after failing to kill both Rider and Waver with the attack, she chooses to leave instead of attacking them further. But right now as it is, it just seems kinda odd and poorly set up.

That quirk aside though, the rest of the drama in this episode was really intense and really well engineered. The scenes with Kirei were great, especially with him showing more and more emotion as he realizes his sadistic plans are unfolding as he planned. There are really nice touches to the facial animation, which shows how much he has changed from his previous self. Details like these are totally visually, and can't be executed with dialogue alone. It's stuff like this which is really impressive about this show.

The scene where Kariya snaps and kills Aoi is probably one of the best directed scenes in the entire series so far. The timing and tone of the entire scene was really disturbing and harsh. As Kariya starts blacking out, there is a strong sense of unease, and it is clear he is going to do something really horrible, but even with an extended period of heavy lead-in, the act itself is still incredibly unpleasant to watch.

There is probably no coincidence that it had strong allusions to a rape scene, from the camera angles, to the positions of their bodies and the thrusting motions. Kariya's carnal desire for Aoi mixed with his despair at realizing that he will never have a place in her heart the way he wants created a raw monster more frightening than Berserker himself. The scene was extremely uncomfortable, but totally effective, and really hammered home the reality of what sort of person Kariya is deep inside.

After watching such a horrifying act, it's even more fitting that they would show how much pleasure something like this gives to both Gilgamesh and Kirei, further cementing that this amoral duo are the true face of evil in this conflict. Something that the preview serves to remind us again, when the title of next week's episode is revealed - All the Evil in this World.

[Instro]

Gilgamesh is the best. Sipping wine, watching snuff.

[Brazil]

Episode 21

Wooow, man. What the hell.

Kariya doesn't deserve this. Aoi did deserve to die, the bitch, that's for sure - but he didn't deserve this. After all that he's been through to save Sakura and give her back to her mother, he gets caught up in one of Kotomine's tricks... Like he hasn't suffered enough already. God damn it. I hope that he at least kills his father real good before meeting his inevitable demise. But there's absolutely no way he'll get a happy ending. I won't lie: I was smiling during the choking scene. Not because I was enjoying the outcome, but because it was brilliant in terms of direction.

Oh well. That was a fantastic episode. The initial scenes were absolutely fantastic. Even CG haters won't be able to criticize that sequence. Saber running among the cars, then dodging the debris from the mountain, and then that final jump... Wow, haha. It felt a bit weird that, though, that in the end, Rider said he wasn't willing to "waste" his Ionioi Hetairoi on Saber, because, well, what if she had decided to finish the job and kill them? They were completely vulnerable. Did he mean that he wasn't up to the task of sacrificing his army to save his Master? Or did he somehow already know she wouldn't attack them anymore?

But, back to Kariya... Hell, why must all the great characters in the Fate franchise suffer so much? There's Kariya, FZ's Lancer...

(FSN spoilers) ... UBW's Ilya and Lancer, and even that guy, with that depressing death besides Shirou. Ugh.

[Ultimadrago]

Gilgamesh is the best. Sipping wine, watching snuff.

You called it, man.

Ya know, minus all the children and Caster and stuff...

[Basileus777]

I'm echoing everyone else here, but that scene in the church was so well done. That could have easily been a melodramatic scene that came off as campy or silly, but there direction there made it very impactful.

Episode 21 Kariya doesn't deserve this. Aoi did deserve to die, the bitch, that's for sure - but he didn't deserve this. After all that he's been through to save Sakura and give her back to her mother, he gets caught up in one of Kotomine's tricks... Like he hasn't suffered enough already. God damn it. I hope that he at least kills his father real good before meeting his inevitable demise. But there's absolutely no way he'll get a happy ending. I won't lie: I was smiling during the choking scene. Not because I was enjoying the outcome, but because it was brilliant in terms of direction.

Aoi doesn't know anything, she has no idea that Kariya did all this for Sakura or even what Sakura is even going through. What she says is terribly cruel to Kariya given what we know he's endured, but she hardly deserves to die. Aoi is one of the few real innocent people in this show.

But, back to Kariya... Hell, why must all the great characters in the Fate franchise suffer so much? There's Kariya, FZ's Lancer...

Everyone suffers in Fate and the Nasuverse. Gilgamesh might be the happiest person in this show, and even there I'm surprised that haven't shown us some some tragic story about Enkidu for his background.

[Ultimadrago]

Fate/Zero 21

-_- Determination

Man, I have to admit, all those black bars made me prepare for the worst (narrative-wise, not quality).

It all went better than expected!

Kirei and Archer make for such an interesting team to watch. Puppet and puppeteer speaking to one another on very personal terms. Kirei wants to be a "real boy" and is growing through one of man's most primitive traits the search for pleasure, a rush of dopamine,.

As for Kariya , damn son, as if the man hasn't suffered enough. He strangles Aoi in his blind rage considering the events. The scene is quite something to hear and watch. It is a powerful one. The thrusting as Kariya knows that his ideal relationship with Aoi had been forever torn asunder. One man in the room loses what was one of his primary sources of happiness while another gains.

Kirei's development into the depth of his madness, Berserker playing with some clone jutsu, Rider making it to prepare for another day!

These were all good things, that as usual, set this up for my show of the season (is choosing a show that continued from the last, cheating?)

Oh well, nonetheless, great episode and I desire more!

Though one nagging thought, Why didn't Saber clear things up with Rider after seeing the absence of Iri? She wasted time and mana with a Noble Phantasm to do what? Make a message of her power? I don't think that could be it. Then why?

[Brazil]

Aoi doesn't know anything, she has no idea that Kariya did all this for Sakura or even what Sakura is even going through. What she says is terribly cruel to Kariya given what we know he's endured, but she hardly deserves to die. Aoi is one of the few real innocent people in this show.

But Kariya did explain his motivations to her in a previous episode. She did know what was going on with him. And saying "Wasn't it enough to take Sakura from me?", knowing full well that her husband was the one who did that, and not Kariya... She's just a bitch. Plain and simple. So much ungratefulness.

Everyone suffers in Fate and the Nasuverse. Gilgamesh might be the happiest person in this show, and even there I'm surprised that haven't shown us some some tragic story about Enkidu for his background.

You're absolutely right.

[Basileus777]

Saber's actions are a bit odd in this episode. Why did she keep fighting after she knew Rider didn't have Iri, why didn't she finish them off when she demonstrated the ability to sense them from a distance in this very episode? How did Saber transform her motorcycle Kamen Rider style? How did Fake Rider/Berserker fly?

I would have liked to see more Kotomine and Zouken, it felt like that scene could have been a bit longer.

But Kariya did explain his motivations to her in a previous episode. She did know what was going on with him. And saying "Wasn't it enough to take Sakura from me?", knowing full well that her husband was the one who did that, and not Kariya... She's just a bitch. Plain and simple. So much ungratefulness.

Kariya never told her how Sakura is suffering or what Kariya has personally endured with the worms. He said he wanted to reunite their family, but given their history and how he was standing over Tokiomi's corpse, her anger is expected. Jealousy and the grail war, Kariya had plenty of motivation to kill her husband, and we know that he actually intended to do it anyway. She's grieving and lashing out. Those are awful things to say to Kariya, but given the circumstances completely understandable. I don't see how she deserved to die.

[Brazil]

Kariya never told her how Sakura is suffering. He said he wanted to reunite their family, but given their history and how he was standing over Tokiomi's corpse, her anger is expected. She's grieving and lashing out. Those are awful things to say to Kariya, but given the circumstances completely understandable. I don't see how she deserved to die.

Well, I'm bitter, alright?

Hahaha.

[Branduil]

Fate/Zero is all about terrible things happening to people, just like real life.