NeoGAF

kyubajin · (10-26-2011, 02:21 PM)

I'm fairly new to GAF so I was just wondering if all this is Dark Souls' doing? Getting to OT3 in less than a month is just incredible.

duckroll · 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Wallach

Can we clarify a bit how expansions and DLC is supposed to work as far as OTs go? Should they have their own OTs like we've been doing? I feel like only DLC/expansions that are standalone and don't require a base game to play should have their own OT.

We'll generally continue to do what we've been doing at the moment. All major post-release DLCs which contain either a substantial single player campaign (NV, DXHR, DA2, ME2, etc) or extensive game revisions (for fighting game expansions for example) can get a new OT. I don't feel that requiring or not requiring the base game really matters.

The point is that after a period of time post-release, we can definitely assume that there are a number of people who are fans of a certain game, and have played it, but will naturally no longer continue to check the OT for the game and to keep reading it. Some might return to the game OT to post about the new DLC they're playing, sure, but it would definitely also be nice to have a new thread to indicate that such a product is coming out, and for people who would not want to post in a huge on-going thread to have a place to start anew with the new release.

Originally Posted by kyubajin

I'm fairly new to GAF so I was just wondering if all this is Dark Souls' doing? Getting to OT3 in less than a month is just incredible.

No. This has been an on-going policy which we have been working on, but we have never really detailed it in specifics since the original announcement about the Community forum. We've tried to be fair in general regarding moving threads to Community, but it became increasingly obvious that we should highlight the objectives and specifics sooner rather than later, especially since at the tail end of this year we're looking at many, many OTs for major games, and it would be better if everyone felt that there's a clear purpose for what is going on rather than some arbitrary thing.

The Technomancer · (10-26-2011, 02:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Jintor

Why would it? They get their 30 days of fame in the primary forum, same as everyone else. It might discourage discovery of those OT threads, but we still get a fair amount of recommendation/nostalgia/LTTP threads all the time.

Yes, but from my experience seeing a thread for a small niche game get bumped to the front page three months later can cause a couple new people to take a look.

duckroll · (10-26-2011, 02:58 PM)

Originally Posted by The_Technomancer

Yes, but from my experience seeing a thread for a small niche game get bumped to the front page three months later can cause a couple new people to take a look.

This is covered:

"Threads that die out quickly or are rarely bumped after the one month mark may or may not be moved to Community at the administration's discretion."

Don't worry too much about a 2 page OT for some XSEED game being moved to Community automatically.

MomoPufflet · (10-26-2011, 03:28 PM)

While I'm sure it'll be unpopular with some people, I actually really like the idea of moving OTs to community after a month. I think it will make community more active and clean up Gaming while balancing activity in heavy-traffic threads like Dark Souls (I guess I'm one of the people that doesn't like the breakneck speed-- I think a lot of interesting posts get overlooked).

Wallach · (10-26-2011, 03:31 PM)

Originally Posted by duckroll

We'll generally continue to do what we've been doing at the moment. All major post-release DLCs which contain either a substantial single player campaign (NV, DXHR, DA2, ME2, etc) or extensive game revisions (for fighting game expansions for example) can get a new OT. I don't feel that requiring or not requiring the base game really matters.

The point is that after a period of time post-release, we can definitely assume that there are a number of people who are fans of a certain game, and have played it, but will naturally no longer continue to check the OT for the game and to keep reading it. Some might return to the game OT to post about the new DLC they're playing, sure, but it would definitely also be nice to have a new thread to indicate that such a product is coming out, and for people who would not want to post in a huge on-going thread to have a place to start anew with the new release.

The reason I say that is because they feel kind of like disposable threads that have an expiration date that normal OTs don't really have. I understand having the thread to announce the release of new DLC, but that feels like it should just be a normal news thread. I mean what is the point really of moving the OT of one of the DLC threads over to Community after a month when the OT for the base game will likely not only already be there, but discussion has moved back to that OT as well?

duckroll · (10-26-2011, 03:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Wallach

The reason I say that is because they feel kind of like disposable threads that have an expiration date that normal OTs don't really have. I understand having the thread to announce the release of new DLC, but that feels like it should just be a normal news thread. I mean what is the point really of moving the OT of one of the DLC threads over to Community after a month when the OT for the base game will likely not only already be there, but discussion has moved back to that OT as well?

Like I mentioned above in regards to niche games, not every single OT will get moved to Community. We are basically dealing with OTs which continue to get a constant stream of discussion and posts. The nature of such threads is that they have pretty much built up a sub-community within the thread, with constant back and forth discussions between regular posters in the thread.

It is unlikely to happen with a DLC OT, so such OTs generally die a natural death well before any time limit we set for active OT threads. If it does happen though, then I would imagine such a game is so popular on NeoGAF that it can support multiple threads in the Community forum.

Does that make more sense?

Wallach · (10-26-2011, 03:38 PM)

Originally Posted by duckroll

Like I mentioned above in regards to niche games, not every single OT will get moved to Community. We are basically dealing with OTs which continue to get a constant stream of discussion and posts. The nature of such threads is that they have pretty much built up a sub-community within the thread, with constant back and forth discussions between regular posters in the thread.

It is unlikely to happen with a DLC OT, so such OTs generally die a natural death well before any time limit we set for active OT threads. If it does happen though, then I would imagine such a game is so popular on NeoGAF that it can support multiple threads in the Community forum.

Does that make more sense?

It's really late here (or early I guess) - for some reason I totally missed that this was not a blanket rule that applied to all OTs. So yeah, that definitely makes more sense as I mainly just didn't understand why we'd be moving threads that were likely to die young. Thanks for the patience.

Derrick01 · (10-26-2011, 04:04 PM)

What about a situation like Arkham City where the PC version is basically coming out 1 month late?

Do we keep the original OT in the gaming section longer? Do we make a new PC specific one? Or just do what we're planning on doing now which is moving the original OT over and not make a new one at all?

edit: Nevermind I just noticed that this was addressed already.

The Faceless Master · (10-26-2011, 04:47 PM)

Battlefield GAF welcomes you all to the Community forum with open arms!

Originally Posted by Seda

The worst is when the title doesn't even point to a post. Something like [Update: New Stuff!], and I have to find the post with the new stuff.

yeah, this is the only tiny complaint. seeing the updated title on new info, but it's not in the OP or listed as a post # and scrolling thru pages to find it.

AuthenticM · (10-26-2011, 04:54 PM)

I still can't create new threads. :(

Andrefpvs · (10-26-2011, 05:06 PM)

Originally Posted by AuthenticM

I still can't create new threads. :(

I think you need to be a full member to create threads. Just keep participating, I believe you're promoted after +- 300 posts in NeoGAF.

Nirolak · (10-26-2011, 05:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Andrefpvs

I think you need to be a full member to create threads. Just keep participating, I believe you're promoted after +- 300 posts in NeoGAF.

300 posts and two months of having your account active to be specific.

Bentendo · (10-26-2011, 05:13 PM)

When should people stop posting in threads? For example, this thread on Final Fantasy XII is inactive now, but I just started playing the game again and wanted to say why it was so great. Should I just wait for the next thread, bump that thread or just simply hold my tongue?

Nirolak · (10-26-2011, 05:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Seda

The worst is when the title doesn't even point to a post. Something like [Update: New Stuff!], and I have to find the post with the new stuff.

This should improve dramatically when we stop having ad hoc megathreads, since it's much easier to get an update into a post that isn't 5000+ words long without making it unreadable.

The Technomancer · (10-26-2011, 05:17 PM)

Originally Posted by duckroll

This is covered:

"Threads that die out quickly or are rarely bumped after the one month mark may or may not be moved to Community at the administration's discretion."

Don't worry too much about a 2 page OT for some XSEED game being moved to Community automatically.

Awesomesauce

charlequin · (10-26-2011, 05:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Wallach

The reason I say that is because they feel kind of like disposable threads that have an expiration date that normal OTs don't really have.

For small-scale content that's totally fine and natural, and for particularly large and enduring content we'll either, as duckroll mentioned, have two active Community threads or merge them together. (With WoW, for instance, we had a general-purpose WoW thread that continued to run in parallel to the Cataclysm |OT| where people discussed the specifics of the new expansion, then we folded both into one discussion as the new-expansion smell wore off.)

Originally Posted by Bentendo

When should people stop posting in threads? For example, this thread on Final Fantasy XII is inactive now, but I just started playing the game again and wanted to say why it was so great. Should I just wait for the next thread, bump that thread or just simply hold my tongue?

If you've got a substantive comment about the game and your experience with it, it's probably well suited to a "LTTP: Final Fantasy XII" thread.

Blizzard · (10-26-2011, 06:00 PM)

Yes, everyone can see community now. The only way to hide information from non-community members is to use the email tag, as far as I know.

I have a quick question, what if there are games that have a release date for one platform (say, Batman PC version) that's nearly a month after the release date for other platforms? Would the OT be moved to community before owners of that platform get their hands on the game and join the discussion?

Nirolak · 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Blizzard

Yes, everyone can see community now. The only way to hide information from non-community members is to use the email tag, as far as I know.

I have a quick question, what if there are games that have a release date for one platform (say, Batman PC version) that's nearly a month after the release date for other platforms? Would the OT be moved to community before owners of that platform get their hands on the game and join the discussion?

In this kind of situation, it doesn't really make sense to make a PC |OT| at the same time as moving the current thread to Community, so it would probably get a 2-3 week extension.

That said, Arkham is the type of game that is likely to run out of "almost always on the first page" steam by the time a month has passed, especially if there was no late PC version, so it might not even be a thread that would have to be moved to Community when we assess it 2-3 weeks after the PC version comes out.

It's worth noting that we were actually operating under stricter standards (3 week moves) earlier in the year, yet we still only had to move 4-5 threads this year so far as most just keeled over and died in a week or two.

October and November have a lot more games that are likely to move though, which is a notable part of why we decided it would be best to define our policy a lot more and put up this thread.

dallow_bg · (10-26-2011, 07:00 PM)

Awesome. Giant OTs constantly bumped on the main page was something I disliked.

Cheesemeister · (10-26-2011, 08:18 PM)

Originally Posted by dallow_bg

Awesome. Giant OTs constantly bumped on the main page was something I disliked.

Agreed. If this gets rid of the 3 or more Battlefield threads on the first page of gaming, it can only be a good thing. It'd be really cool, of course, if one could simply "ignore" threads and never have to see them again, but I'll take what I can get.

Drkirby · (10-26-2011, 08:25 PM)

So, is this to try and make it so Gaming is more about News, while Community are more for, well, community?

Maybe TF2 Gaf needs to be a bit better about news with TF2 updates. So many come that we just shrug off. "Oh, they added anther 50 hats and the ability to have multiple non-hat items on, along with giving everyone a cheap paper hat. New topic, why?"

Though we don't need to flood gaming with stuff like "Football Manager to have 3 Promotional Items!"

Nirolak · 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Drkirby

Maybe TF2 Gaf needs to be a bit better about news with TF2 updates. So many come that we just shrug off. "Oh, they added anther 50 hats and the ability to have multiple non-hat items on, along with giving everyone a cheap paper hat. New topic, why?"

Though we don't need to flood gaming with stuff like "Football Manager to have 3 Promotional Items!"

To help with this, here are a few examples of things that most likely are and are not worthy of new threads after the OT goes up.

Use discretion, but may be worthy:

-New hats added to TF2.
-Bugs fixed in TF2.
-DLC costumes added to FFXIII-2 post release.

Absolutely Worthy:

-New campaign DLC and/or multiplayer map pack announced.
-New maps and/or modes added to TF2.
-FFXIII-2 has a new DLC dungeon and/or a patch that adds an Easy mode.

Basically, is it something that someone who isn't playing the game regularly might be interested in.

Drkirby · (10-26-2011, 08:37 PM)

It just was something of pretty large scale:
http://www.tf2.com/manniversary/

But yeah, it was mostly just Cosmetic Items. But free hat! Actually, it did get a topic by Proxy, since the fact that TF2 Item makers had been paid $2,000,000 got a topic:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448442

The Halloween Update should hit in a day or two, that will likely get a topic.

DarkFlow · (10-26-2011, 08:49 PM)

Originally Posted by SuicidalSteve

Wouldn't this sort of punish any lurkers who are waiting to join? Sort of seeing their favorite game thread moved to the community section might make them look to other places?

Is there a lack of people wanting to join now? I don't get this.

Nirolak · (10-26-2011, 08:49 PM)

Originally Posted by Drkirby

It just was something of pretty large scale:
http://www.tf2.com/manniversary/

But yeah, it was mostly just Cosmetic Items. But free hat! Actually, it did get a topic by Proxy, since the fact that TF2 Item makers had been paid $2,000,000 got a topic:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448442

[img]http://i.imgur.com/AHuZi.png[img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/piI1b.png[img]

The Halloween Update should hit in a day or two, that will likely get a topic.

I edited my post a bit, since sometimes vanity items are definitely interesting to people.

It's more of a "Use discretion" stage than a "For sure don't make a new thread".

gdt · (10-26-2011, 09:07 PM)

I just took my first look into Community in a while....and Halo Reach has 7 OTs? Damn.

Plywood · (10-26-2011, 10:31 PM)

Originally Posted by gdt5016

I just took my first look into Community in a while....and Halo Reach has 7 OTs? Damn.

We ~~complain~~ give constructive criticism ~~a lot~~ often.

akilshohen · (10-26-2011, 10:32 PM)

I keep forgetting to check out community.

Drkirby · (10-26-2011, 10:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Plywood

We ~~complain~~ give constructive criticism ~~a lot~~ often.

The TF2 topic makes fun of the Halo Topic. True story.

Plywood · (10-26-2011, 10:39 PM)

Originally Posted by Drkirby

The TF2 topic makes fun of the Halo Topic. True story.

Halo topic makes fun of gaming side. So I can't say I'm surprised. P:

Also Evilore, this is an idea/question I have: Would you consider making the community tab Orange? I think it would help get people's attention, I've read(anecdotal of course) other users complaints before saying that not many people visit Community, I think it could help get people to click on it's tab if it's a different color from the others.

Amir0x · (10-26-2011, 11:03 PM)

Sounds good to me. Seems to be a natural continuation of where things have been headed for a while with the community subforum. Now it'll definitely become a more valuable center on GAF.

BlazingDarkness · (10-26-2011, 11:21 PM)

Not really a fan of these changes

fisheyes · (10-27-2011, 03:02 AM)

This is all only relevant to gaming OTs, right? No Off Topic OTs?

Jtwo · (10-27-2011, 05:25 PM)

Originally Posted by Darklord

I was never able to view it when not logged in. Through I'm always logged in so it has been a while.

Yeah it changed a while ago. Community is viewable to everyone now. Oh, I see I'm way late with this reply!

BY2K · (10-28-2011, 05:12 AM)

New threads for new trailers are ok, right?

Nirolak · (10-28-2011, 05:14 AM)

Originally Posted by BY2K

New threads for new trailers are ok, right?

And encouraged.

Pyrokai · (10-28-2011, 09:19 AM)

Generally this all sounds nice, but I do share Clipper's concern about potentially missing out on replies by posting in an OT six months after release or something and no one sees it pretty much because it's in Community.

Not to all of GAF: Start going to Community as much as General and Off Topic. Please! :)

Blue Ninja · (10-28-2011, 09:39 AM)

Originally Posted by Pyrokai

Generally this all sounds nice, but I do share Clipper's concern about potentially missing out on replies by posting in an OT six months after release or something and no one sees it pretty much because it's in Community.

Not to all of GAF: Start going to Community as much as General and Off Topic. Please! :)

Subscribe to the thread. You won't mis a thing.

tokkun · (10-28-2011, 08:41 PM)

I hope that the OT moving policy extends beyond single game-related threads to include other persistent threads like the miscellaneous Giant Bomb thread which is 1.5 years old and has 15K+ replies. Not much reason for it to continue occupying a slot on the front page when we have a very functional subscription feature.

EviLore · (10-28-2011, 08:54 PM)

Originally Posted by tokkun

I hope that the OT moving policy extends beyond single game-related threads to include other persistent threads like the miscellaneous Giant Bomb thread which is 1.5 years old and has 15K+ replies. Not much reason for it to continue occupying a slot on the front page when we have a very functional subscription feature.

Yeah, will be addressed on a case by case basis for any "dead weight" sort of threads.

famousmortimer · (10-29-2011, 12:24 AM)

As a longtime lurker but recent poster I think this is a great idea if it can make it past the catch that exists currently... that the general gaf populace thinks of community as where threads go to die.

If that remains the case after these changes I humbly submit the idea of having OT's start in community, as that would definitely break that barrier, and then it would be one news/topics forum and then one forum built around the community for each game.

But if this works it wouldn't even have to come to that. Good luck!

Fuzzy · (10-30-2011, 01:18 AM)

I like these changes since I pretty much only check my subscriptions and the first page on the gaming side.

Chet Rippo · (10-30-2011, 10:58 AM)

Why aren't the MLB, NFL, ect threads not in the community section? Aren't they exactly what the community section is for?

gingerbeardman · (11-01-2011, 11:00 AM)

Originally Posted by EviLore

LTTP threads can work as before.

Can you please recap how that is? Thanks

Reveirg · (11-04-2011, 12:23 AM)

Originally Posted by gingerbeardman

Can you please recap how that is? Thanks

I second that request :) Is it okay to "bump" LTTP threads?

Let's say I'm late to the party for Tales of the Abyss (I am) and currently playing it for the first time (I am). Can I create a new LTTP or should I bump an old one?

EviLore · (11-04-2011, 12:24 AM)

Originally Posted by Reveirg

I second that request :) Is it okay to "bump" LTTP threads?

Let's say I'm late to the party for Tales of the Abyss (I am) and currently playing it for the first time (I am). Can I create a new LTTP or should I bump an old one?

Either works. If you have something substantial to say, at least. And since you have something substantial to say, you might feel that substance better served with a new thread for full exposure ;b

Giolon · (11-04-2011, 01:02 AM)

Are all game sale threads being relegated to Community too? I just saw one in there. Because that seems like new news to me.

Nirolak · (11-04-2011, 01:03 AM)

Originally Posted by Giolon

Are all game sale threads being relegated to Community too? I just saw one in there. Because that seems like new news to me.

Hmm, that seems to be someone accidentally posting in the wrong forum.

I'll go move that. Thanks.

enzo_gt · (11-08-2011, 02:46 AM)

What is the edit limit on any given post?