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Samus4145
(11-03-2011, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Raonak

Did she say that the ring actually belonged to her? I remember her saying "I merely want what's mine" which looking back, sounded like she was talking about the jar thing.

I think she is referring to the treasure (Iram of the Pillars) that only with the ring can be found. She wants the treasures that Sir Francis Drake denied the Queen and that entire cult when he hid all evidence about it.
Appollowexx
Member
(11-03-2011, 03:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Raonak

Did she say that the ring actually belonged to her? I remember her saying "I merely want what's mine" which looking back, sounded like she was talking about the jar thing.

I interpreted that as meaning that she felt the ring was intended for her as she had gone to great lengths to secure it originally when Drake first snatched it as a kid.
LeadProtagonist
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(11-03-2011, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

Exactly. Which brings up the one question that was never really answered for me: Why is Drake really doing all of this? Whats his true motvation? Is it just really a pride factor? I got the impression he is just a straight up adrenaline junkie. Marlowe even calls him out on it in Chapter 1 stating that he "gets off on all of that". With all of the added character complexities and depth, one thing Im surprised about that wasnt included in the storyline is what exactly Drake does with these riches that he plunders. Granted, we never saw him leave with anything in the first two games, but how the hell does he live? I really wanted a glimpse into what his life was like outside of stealing.

Well, to add to my previous comment, it just seems that his true motivation is to not live a boring life and be a nobody. They basically painted his backstory as "a lonely abandoned kid decides to use his knowledge from a Catholic boarding school to go on adventures and escape having to grow up under the care of nuns". It's not about the riches, it's about the excitement and the discoveries for him.
OneMoreQuestion
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(11-03-2011, 03:27 PM)
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To be honest, I was actually hoping that the final boss would be a giant spider (as the source of the hallucinogens). What a shame it didn't come to be...
DangerousDave
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(11-03-2011, 03:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by OneMoreQuestion

To be honest, I was actually hoping that the final boss would be a giant spider (as the source of the hallucinogens). What a shame it didn't come to be...

After the first chapter, I already was 90% sure that the end boss was going to be a melee battle. The other 10% is because a melee battle with Marlowe it would be quite weird. When Marlowe died, I have it clear that it was going to be a melee battle with Talbot.
JumpingTheGun
Banned
(11-03-2011, 03:33 PM)
I thought the final fight was perfect in context to the series. They didnt go overboard like they did in UC2 and they didnt go at it minimally like they did in UC1. To me, it was a real solid ending. Fighting Talbot was great and plugging him with 5 or 6 bullets as he was about to smash Sully with a rock was awesome. ND really went all out with the hanging and shooting in this one.
RDreamer
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(11-03-2011, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by InsertNameHere

You have to look at the subtext. When Drake sees Elena he's surprised that she still wears her ring. Then she says to him "And you still wear yours." pointing out Drake's ring around his neck. It seems that they had a rift due to him dangerously pursuing treasure and perhaps putting it ahead of her. Her saying that is basically "you're still married to your work". At the end though he loses that ring and Sully gives him his wedding band back, showing that he's changed.


As far as the whole fake name thing you get it in the context of his childhood. We find out there's a sore spot about his parents and it turns out he's been shuffled off to a boarding school at an early age. Later we find out his mother committed suicide and that his father basically abandoned him. So it's not hard to imagine from there that he comes across the figure of Francis Drake, a treasure hunter with the motto "greatness from small beginnings" which is probably exactly how he feels. So he puts on a front as a child and comes up with a new identity for himself so he's not just an abandoned kid at a boarding school, but has his own purpose for his life and can pretend his life is something much bigger, which he ends up doing.


I mean, I'm actually glad they really didn't spell all of this stuff out and went about it in a clever way. Having Elena and Drake argue about their relationship and his work wouldn't be nearly as interesting. Nor would Marlowe saying "Your real name is John Smith and you're just a nobody abandoned child who tried to make himself feel important". That is lazy storytelling and has little impact, what they actually did in the game takes a bit of a leap of faith as it's smart storytelling and you risk upsetting a lot of people by asking them to fill in the gaps themselves.

Yep, this right here is what I was thinking and feeling. I think games tend to fill in the blanks way too much and put things bluntly, so it was incredibly refreshing to have a more realistic and just better written story when it came to some of these things.
WebScud
Junior Member
(11-03-2011, 03:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by RDreamer

How is Drake washing up on shore really that unbelievable? I mean they were in town when Marlowe presumably told the pirate to get rid of him, so his ship had to be close, and I doubt Nathan was knocked out for that long to have got that far away. And I just assumed the boat graveyard wasn't that far offshore. I mean if it's modeled even remotely after the world's largest ship graveyard, then yeah it'd be pretty close.

That's how I felt about it. Not real-life plausible, but certainly story-telling plausible.


Originally Posted by InsertNameHere

As far as the whole fake name thing you get it in the context of his childhood. We find out there's a sore spot about his parents and it turns out he's been shuffled off to a boarding school at an early age. Later we find out his mother committed suicide and that his father basically abandoned him. So it's not hard to imagine from there that he comes across the figure of Francis Drake, a treasure hunter with the motto "greatness from small beginnings" which is probably exactly how he feels. So he puts on a front as a child and comes up with a new identity for himself so he's not just an abandoned kid at a boarding school, but has his own purpose for his life and can pretend his life is something much bigger, which he ends up doing.

I get that's what they were going for and it works. Still, on some level, it feels like the Armin Tamzarian thing to me.


The couple of things eating at the back of my mind:
What's the deal with the spiders? Why were they in different locations? Their supernatural element was never explained, right?

Like everyone else, I want to know how Talbot survived getting shot.

In reveal trailer, which was also used in-game, Drake grabs an AK-47 from a body in the cargo plane wreckage. He carries it for a bit through Chapter 18, then suddenly looses it. Just so you can get the treasure at the well? It would play better if never grabbed the weapon.

I think tacking Choloe and Cutter on at the ending, whether through a line of dialogue or them actually being there, would feel forced. I still want to know what happened to them.
JumpingTheGun
Banned
(11-03-2011, 03:43 PM)
So Drake does what he does in order to maintain a strong sense of self-worth due to his childhood abandonment issues...
Jarmel
place a shoe on my head
to reduce lag compensation
(11-03-2011, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by InsertNameHere

As far as the whole fake name thing you get it in the context of his childhood. We find out there's a sore spot about his parents and it turns out he's been shuffled off to a boarding school at an early age. Later we find out his mother committed suicide and that his father basically abandoned him. So it's not hard to imagine from there that he comes across the figure of Francis Drake, a treasure hunter with the motto "greatness from small beginnings" which is probably exactly how he feels. So he puts on a front as a child and comes up with a new identity for himself so he's not just an abandoned kid at a boarding school, but has his own purpose for his life and can pretend his life is something much bigger, which he ends up doing.


I mean, I'm actually glad they really didn't spell all of this stuff out and went about it in a clever way. Having Elena and Drake argue about their relationship and his work wouldn't be nearly as interesting. Nor would Marlowe saying "Your real name is John Smith and you're just a nobody abandoned child who tried to make himself feel important". That is lazy storytelling and has little impact, what they actually did in the game takes a bit of a leap of faith as it's smart storytelling and you risk upsetting a lot of people by asking them to fill in the gaps themselves.

The way they did the name and background thing was great. However they didn't follow through at all in the game. We never hear Marlowe or Talbot mention it, which would have been a great taut line. It could have helped fleshed out Sully's character by the two having a conversation where Sully doesn't care. They could have done alot with it and they didn't.
LeadProtagonist
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(11-03-2011, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

The way they did the name and background thing was great. However they didn't follow through at all in the game. We never hear Marlowe or Talbot mention it, which would have been a great taut line. It could have helped fleshed out Sully's character by the two having a conversation where Sully doesn't care. They could have done alot with it and they didn't.

Marlowe does pretty much use it to taunt him when she captures him. And Sully's conversation with Drake at the end where he's trying to say he feels like a father to him without outright saying it was plenty enough interaction to give the plot of their relationship closure.

Sure I guess there's some missed opportunities but, I dunno, I think it'd feel forced to shove it into some character arcs that already finished off quite well like the Sully/Drake relationship.

Edit: Oh, you could also look at when Marlowe is stuck in the sand and is holding out the ring saying "Earn it like Francis Drake did" being a sort of "I know you're not his descendent, but will you still try to live up to his name?" reference. Though that could be easily missed.
RDreamer
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(11-03-2011, 03:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by WebScud

That's how I felt about it. Not real-life plausible, but certainly story-telling plausible.

Yeah, it works. It especially works because by now washing up on shore from a shipwreck in a storm is kind of a cliche at this point. It doesn't actually happen in real life, but it happens so much in movies or books that it should be plausible, especially when the theme of what you're writing is borrowing heavily from those sorts of movies/books.


Originally Posted by WebScud

I think tacking Chloe and Cutter on at the ending, whether through a line of dialogue or them actually being there, would feel forced. I still want to know what happened to them.

Well Cutter was injured, so he was probably recovering from that. He wouldn't have been able to get around so easily. And Chloe bowed out because she knew what the outcome of the whole thing would be from last time they all did it. Yeah they did kind of drop off the face of the earth in the game, but it does kind of make sense.



Originally Posted by WebScud


Like everyone else, I want to know how Talbot survived getting shot.

I have to re watch this scene, because I don't remember it in huge detail. Could have been a bullet proof vest. And the reason Cutter is ranting and raving is because his brain is still fuzzed from being drugged, so he can't really think of another explanation.

Really, I think that scene went along with the whole deception theme. To me this game was thematically kind of similar to what Metal Gear Solid 2 did, except a whole lot less on the brainfucking. Both games wanted to kind of play on expectations and subvert them as they went along. Uncharted 3 tried to make you believe that things were going to happen the same way as 1 and 2. There was something supernatural going on. There was something more to the cult. They wanted you to think any number of things could have happened at the end to make it like the first two, but then it wasn't.
brandonh83
(11-03-2011, 03:56 PM)
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The last sequence and final boss was fucking awesome!! It alone made me like the game more than Uncharted 2, which just got really lame there at the end. But that fight with Talbot was both fun and cinematic. Setting was awesome too, and I loved all the wide shots.

Game had so many good wide shots. Like Drake slogging through the desert as the music came. So awesome.
Jarmel
place a shoe on my head
to reduce lag compensation
(11-03-2011, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by InsertNameHere

Marlowe does pretty much use it to taunt him when she captures him. And Sully's conversation with Drake at the end where he's trying to say he feels like a father to him without outright saying it was plenty enough interaction to give the plot of their relationship closure.

Sure I guess there's some missed opportunities but, I dunno, I think it'd feel forced to shove it into some character arcs that already finished off quite well like the Sully/Drake relationship.

Well she also very very subtly hinted at it at the end. Talbot never mentions it which is very surprising. I expected some taunts to come in the final boss battle. Drake never really opened up to Sully at the end either which would have been a great time. We could have gotten more insight into Drake himself other than a scowl.

Oh and Talbot isn't wearing any vest or anything. You actually see the blood coming out when he's shot.
DoctorWho
BOSS
(11-03-2011, 04:08 PM)
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Hated the gameplay, thought the story was brilliant.

Love reading up on some of the "real life" characters after a game like this:

John Dee

we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 04:09 PM)
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Why did Cutter have a tarot card in his jacket?

Why didn't Talbot use his skills/resources to preemptively assess Cutter's loyalty/motives?

Why didn't Marlowe just hire engineers to figure out how the decoder worked?

Why didn't Marlowe use her resources to brute force all of the hidden tombs?

Why not do arial topographical/scan to discover Ubar? The sand storm can't be perpetual unless it's magical or some shit.

Why did the pirates bother with a straw man Sully?

Why are the villains so fucking stupid and fumble every chance to kill Drake and company? Marlowe is a fucking moron too, she didn't have anything to help her she would have been better off just letting Drake do it all and trail him which happened accidentally anyway.

What an illogical mess.
RDreamer
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(11-03-2011, 04:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

The way they did the name and background thing was great. However they didn't follow through at all in the game. We never hear Marlowe or Talbot mention it, which would have been a great taut line. It could have helped fleshed out Sully's character by the two having a conversation where Sully doesn't care. They could have done alot with it and they didn't.

Do people really need this stuff spelled out? I mean do you really think Sully actually believes that Nathan's a descendant of Francis Drake? He let Nathan cling to his dream of greatness from small beginnings by never questioning it. He doesn't care by virtue of him still sticking around with Nate, and by him admitting to basically being a father figure at the end. They didn't need to make Sully come out and say this. That's silly.


Originally Posted by Jarmel

Well she also very very subtly hinted at it at the end. Talbot never mentions it which is very surprising. I expected some taunts to come in the final boss battle. Drake never really opened up to Sully at the end either which would have been a great time. We could have gotten more insight into Drake himself other than a scowl.

Drake's reaction, no matter what it is, is your insight into him. His scowl has indications. He's not someone that just opens up like that. You can piece together from his background, and from his problems with Elena that he probably has some abandonment issues and trouble opening up to people. The only thing he clings to is his adventurous life, because it gets him his goal of greatness by being the hero. Deep down you find out that he does absolutely care about Sully, but he's not going to out and admit that and get all personal with things. That goes against the persona he's created for himself. He dances around issues. You never hear him say "I love you" in Uc2 when Chloe tells him to. He doesn't tell Elena how much it pained him to see her nearly die. He jokes about clowns for god's sake! That's who he is!


Originally Posted by we.are.the.armada

Why did Cutter have a tarot card in his jacket?

Why didn't Talbot use his skills/resources to preemptively assess Cutter's loyalty/motives?

Why didn't Marlowe just hire engineers to figure out how the decoder worked?

Why didn't Marlowe use her resources to brute force all of the hidden tombs?

Why not do arial topographical/scan to discover Ubar? The sand storm can't be perpetual unless it's magical or some shit.

Why did the pirates bother with a straw man Sully?

Why are the villains so fucking stupid and fumble every chance to kill Drake and company? Marlowe is a fucking moron too, she didn't have anything to help her she would have been better off just letting Drake do it all and trail him which happened accidentally anyway.

What an illogical mess.

Ok, now you're just getting freaking silly. There's no way you have all of these complaints unless you actually hated Uncharted 1 and 2, and hate the serial adventure genre.
RedSwirl
Junior Member
(11-03-2011, 04:34 PM)
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I'm kinda disappointed that I never got anything out of why Talbot looks so much like Drake. I guess that was just a coincidence, or they wanted to cast him as sort of an anti-Drake. When I originally read about the story I thought it was going to occur that Drake was originally from this cult and broke off from it, and/or maybe Talbot was his brother or perhaps the real Nathan Drake and our Drake just stole his identity. Huh.

The ending did feel a tad rushed though. I was surprised that this time Drake managed to stop the ancient supernatural evil before it got unleashed instead of after like the previous two games. A bit of a lack of payoff if you ask me.
Last edited by RedSwirl; 11-03-2011 at 04:41 PM.
PowderedToast
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(11-03-2011, 04:38 PM)
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the stories in uncharted games are always a mess, U2 certainly wasn't any better. U3 excels in isolated character moments, it's easily the best of the three in that regard. i prefer the overall tone, too. that makes it my favourite of the three.
Carl
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(11-03-2011, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by we.are.the.armada

Why did Cutter have a tarot card in his jacket?

Forgot about that. "You were supposed to end up here all along" * tarot card in pocket* - NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. Seemed as if they had a great idea, threw it in, then forgot about it.


Originally Posted by Heshinsi

Why do they always end up destroying these ancient cities? They withstand the test of time for thousands of years, only to have pretty boy Nate show up and wreak shit. I find it interesting that the water in Aram works in a similar fashion to the hallucinogenic agent Talbot has. Where the hell did Marlow and co get it? I want more Chloe, hell a side story with Chloe and Cutter would be nice.


Also, the whole city got destroyed because Nate shot one tower, lol. How does that work?
JumpingTheGun
Banned
(11-03-2011, 05:03 PM)
Were Drakes eyes so bright and blue in UC2?
we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 05:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by RDreamer


Ok, now you're just getting freaking silly. There's no way you have all of these complaints unless you actually hated Uncharted 1 and 2, and hate the serial adventure genre.

Haha, I know right! Yeah I loved the games, even through all of the silly illogical stuff but in UC3 it seems as if they took a more serious and deliberate approach so why not clean up the logic holes and the red herrings?

Also, Talbots stupid theatrics where pointless and caused a lot of unnecessary grief to Marlowe & company. I hate that crap, Marlowe should have hired someone else.
Radec
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(11-03-2011, 05:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Carl

Forgot about that. "You were supposed to end up here all along" * tarot card in pocket* - NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN. Seemed as if they had a great idea, threw it in, then forgot about it.

Yeah. Would have been great if Talbot has some kind of ability based on those cards. Seeing how Talbot survives alot of shit we've put him to.
Carl
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(11-03-2011, 05:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Radec

Yeah. Would have been great if Talbot has some kind of ability based on those cards. Seeing how Talbot survives alot of shit we've put him to.

He must have some kind of ability to survive bullets and disappear. He can also survive a hell of a lot of punches, and runs incredibly fast when you're chasing him.
we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

Were Drakes eyes so bright and blue in UC2?

Nope and his hair wasn't as light either. Everybody in UC3 looks better as if they got plastic surgery and botox shots. Elena is stunning man, that scene where she and Drake take a nap she took my breath away man. So beautiful.
shintoki
sparkle this bitch
(11-03-2011, 05:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by gdt5016

It doesn't matter what Drake's real name is, just that we know he's lying, and probably isn't Drake's descendant now. It doesn't even have to be brought up again, unless of course he's actually someone from an important family or something. But Marlowe ran through who her parents were, so I doubt we'll ever find out.

Its a clear set up to a sequel, both its back story and the fact he is a liar.
we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 05:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by shintoki

Its a clear set up to a sequel, both its back story and the fact he is a liar.

Drake lying about his name is so cool to me - I mean this poor kid just trying to keep himself together mentally and emotionally is amazing, and this sort of explained why he's at least a little balls mental.
Auron_Kale
Santalope
(11-03-2011, 05:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

I'm kinda disappointed that I never got anything out of why Talbot looks so much like Drake. I guess that was just a coincidence, or they wanted to cast him as sort of an anti-Drake. When I originally read about the story I thought it was going to occur that Drake was originally from this cult and broke off from it, and/or maybe Talbot was his brother or perhaps the real Nathan Drake and our Drake just stole his identity. Huh.

I was reading the CE guide last night after I beat the game and regarding Talbot, they simply wanted to create the 'anti-Drake'. In looks, skill, knowledge, etc. they wanted to just make a villain that was every bit as good as Nate, but in having say chosen the 'dark side' versus what happened with Nate in Sully finding him.

Aside from learning about Nate's past, I also really liked how it subtly implied that Nate and Elena did get married after U2. Really made the ending for me stand out, especially with Sully's speech about being a father. The fact that he'd been holding onto Nate's wedding ring - waiting for the right time to give it to him - that was a great touch that definitely emphasized the father/son dynamic between the two.
we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

I'm kinda disappointed that I never got anything out of why Talbot looks so much like Drake. I guess that was just a coincidence, or they wanted to cast him as sort of an anti-Drake. When I originally read about the story I thought it was going to occur that Drake was originally from this cult and broke off from it, and/or maybe Talbot was his brother or perhaps the real Nathan Drake and our Drake just stole his identity. Huh.

The ending did feel a tad rushed though. I was surprised that this time Drake managed to stop the ancient supernatural evil before it got unleashed instead of after like the previous two games. A bit of a lack of payoff if you ask me.

Oh my god, why didn't do that with Talbot and Drake - some sort of lost rivalry between bastard heirs of Francis Drake. Damn that would have been sweet - I like the game we got though, logically flawed but it worked out. I kinda wished they did do something interesting with Talbot that connected him to Drake nonetheless.
Furoba
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(11-03-2011, 05:55 PM)
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Oh man I so expected an evil drake mirror fight there. "Drake, where's your shadow?"
Crewnh
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(11-03-2011, 05:56 PM)
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They already pulled that anti-Drake thing with Flynn, so with Talbot it comes off hollow and impersonal.

Course Flynn wasn't as smart as Drake. But Talbot wasn't that much smarter either.
stupei
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(11-03-2011, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Patapwn

Ugh, don't get snippy with me, please. At the beginning of the game, if you paid attention, she was unsettled when cutter shot and 'killed' nate. So it was established that she didn't want to kill nate or at least didn't want to see it. So she just turned him off to her goons when she captured him. She probably hired ramses as oversight for the trip into yemen and being the dirty pirate that he is he saw an opprotunity and decided not to kill drake there and then.

And yes, the answer to uncharted 1 was magic.

No. That's the impression the game gives you in Chapter 1 but later she says that it isn't that she's upset, it's that it's sloppy to shoot two guys in an alley. She doesn't give a damn if Nate dies or not, she just doesn't want bodies dumped behind a bar that could be traced back to her. Also, I never got the impression from that scene that it was Nate's life she was concerned with. It's established she had a relationship with Sully and that this ended because of Nate. If anything I'd buy that she keeps him around to make him suffer for that.

Also in the bonus features Amy Hennig flat out says that they came up with the set pieces first and wrote the story around it, so I'm pretty sure that's why the ship yard seems to have nothing to do with anything else that's going on: because it doesn't.
we.are.the.armada
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(11-03-2011, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Furoba

Oh man I so expected an evil drake mirror fight there. "Drake, where's your shadow?"

Persona 5: Drake's Shadow

Yeah a shadow fight would have been cool especially if shadow Drake said hurtful dialogue to Drake about his weaknesses and his past.
SolidSnakex
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(11-03-2011, 06:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

No. They never explained why Marlowe thought the ring belonged to her.

The reason behind this was mentioned in an interview when Marlowe was originally unveiled.

Marlowe is the head of an order whose history reaches back 400 years to the reign of Queen Elizabeth the First. Of course, there is a connection there for us in the world of Uncharted to Sir Francis Drake, who Drake claims is his distant ancestor. And the order is connected to Queen Elizabeth's court of advisers, who include the famous occultist John Dee, who is really Britain's first spy master. He used to sign his letters to the queen 007.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...es-deception/1

Evan also talks about it in this interview

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gd...arted-3/711404

She feels that the ring belongs to that group because of their connections to Queen Elizabeth.
JumpingTheGun
Banned
(11-03-2011, 06:53 PM)

Originally Posted by we.are.the.armada

Drake lying about his name is so cool to me - I mean this poor kid just trying to keep himself together mentally and emotionally is amazing, and this sort of explained why he's at least a little balls mental.

I really want to replay the first two games now just to see him convincingly bullshit everyone about his ancestry.

Now it just occured to me that even Elena thinks his real name is Nathan Drake...and theyre fucking married. Yeah hes a pretty personable and likable guy, but he really isnt a good person whatsoever. I guess if another sequel is made, they cant use the "Drake" name in the title.

UC4 should simply just be called "Uncharted". Nothing more.
Last edited by JumpingTheGun; 11-03-2011 at 06:58 PM.
ThisWreckage
Banned
(11-03-2011, 07:01 PM)
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Talbot looks like Alan Rickman's character in Die Hard.
SolidSnakex
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(11-03-2011, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

I really want to replay the first two games now just to see him convincingly bullshit everyone about his ancestry.

I'm pretty sure that there were some indications in the first two games that he's been bullshitting about being a descendant of Sir Francis Drake.

Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

Now it just occured to me that even Elena thinks his real name is Nathan Drake...and theyre fucking married. Yeah hes a pretty personable and likable guy, but he really isnt a good person whatsoever. I guess if another sequel is made, they cant use the "Drake" name in the title.

I disagree with the idea that he's not a good person. Sure he's a liar, but it doesn't really seem like he's lying to be an asshole. He seems to be lying about who he is because he's ashamed of the fact that he was basically abandoned by his parents (father gave him up at 5 after his mom committed suicide). It's not too surprising that he'd try to create a much cooler life/backstory for himself. He goes from being a "castoff" (as Marlowe calls him) to being a descendant of Drake. He also never had to grow out of that because he met Sully at such a young age.
Auron_Kale
Santalope
(11-03-2011, 07:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

Now it just occured to me that even Elena thinks his real name is Nathan Drake...and theyre fucking married. Yeah hes a pretty personable and likable guy, but he really isnt a good person whatsoever. I guess if another sequel is made, they cant use the "Drake" name in the title.

Nate's still a good person. Sure he fibbed about his life story - it's definitely far from glamorous, more like the atypical shitty childhood trope - but it helped him cope with his life. If anything, it gave him confidence to continue on. Plus with Sully, he probably figured that Nate's had a shitty past and was lying about certain things, but he did provide an outlet for him - fostering Nate's natural talents as it were.
linzin
Junior Member
(11-03-2011, 07:52 PM)
There's a difference between good storytelling that leaves some gaps to the imagination and lazy storytelling full of plotholes. Elena and Nate's relationship or Nate and Sully's relationship is the former. The actual plot of UC3 is mostly the latter.

The writing and acting with the three main characters conveys very well what it's supposed to. Yes, they got married after 2. Nate left to chase after more treasure, because his priority was always the adventure. The ring conversation. The nap conversation. It all says what it has to without being bloated exposition. It also helps that this is something that you see even in the gap between 1 and 2. They weren't looking like they were gonna get married or anything at the end of 1, but the romance interest was there. They meet again in 2, and you can tell they haven't seen each other in a long while and stuff is awkward between them. Then you see Chloe and Elena sizing each other up, etc. It's all a continuity, and it works. This is the one thing that ND handles for realz better than any other gaming franchise. The character interactions.

The tarot card? The shipyard? Why Marlowe wants this hallucinogen beyond "Oh, I'm part of a secret society and it's supposed to be ours"? Why Talbot can seemingly control minds? What's up with the spiders? This is not stuff where there's continuity helping us fill in the gaps. This isn't character interactions, where often leaving stuff unsaid says just as much as actually saying it. Yeah, you can fill in the gaps with any number of possible theories. You can brush it off as adventure tropes. (And to be fair, it usually doesn't bother me as much. There's just SO MUCH of it in this game that it actively works against my suspension of disbelief.) But it's so, so not the same kind of "gap." They're not conveying anything by implication. They're just being lazy in connecting the dots.
Trick_GSF
Member
(11-03-2011, 07:56 PM)
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Well just got done with Uncharted 3.

Really had me going near the end, Naughty Dog, really had me going.
BruceLeeRoy
(11-03-2011, 07:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

I thought the final fight was perfect in context to the series. They didnt go overboard like they did in UC2 and they didnt go at it minimally like they did in UC1. To me, it was a real solid ending. Fighting Talbot was great and plugging him with 5 or 6 bullets as he was about to smash Sully with a rock was awesome. ND really went all out with the hanging and shooting in this one.

Yeah I thought that the ending was handled really really well.
we.are.the.armada
Member
(11-03-2011, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Auron_Kale

Nate's still a good person. Sure he fibbed about his life story - it's definitely far from glamorous, more like the atypical shitty childhood trope - but it helped him cope with his life. If anything, it gave him confidence to continue on. Plus with Sully, he probably figured that Nate's had a shitty past and was lying about certain things, but he did provide an outlet for him - fostering Nate's natural talents as it were.

You know I think that Drake has lived up to the name as Marlowe asked in question - he made the name his own - in UC1 he finds Francis and believes that he died as a loser later to find out that Francis saved the world. Drake saves the world too. In UC2, Drake is sort of a hero (even though he kind of ruined that village) and finally in UC3, he tries to save Marlowe, the person that damaged him emotionally at that young age and gave him a reason to be obsessed with proving he's something he is not. I think that Drake has earned the name for himself.
LeadProtagonist
Member
(11-03-2011, 09:21 PM)
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Well yeah, I think the point is it doesn't matter who Nate was before, now he's Nathan Drake. He's not just going to go back to using his old name because of his realizations. He created the persona of Nathan Drake as a child but now he is Nathan Drake, if that makes any sense.
Auron_Kale
Santalope
(11-03-2011, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by we.are.the.armada

You know I think that Drake has lived up to the name as Marlowe asked in question - he made the name his own - in UC1 he finds Francis and believes that he died as a loser later to find out that Francis saved the world. Drake saves the world too. In UC2, Drake is sort of a hero (even though he kind of ruined that village) and finally in UC3, he tries to save Marlowe, the person that damaged him emotionally at that young age and gave him a reason to be obsessed with proving he's something he is not. I think that Drake has earned the name for himself.

Yep. If anything, he's told white lies to protect himself from others, but on the whole he puts himself completely out there to keep his friends/loved ones safe. He has more than lived up to Drake's name as well as made the name his own.
Gyrian
Member
(11-03-2011, 09:46 PM)
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On Nate's real name; my impression from the story is that it is only the last name that he picked up (giving himself a 'better' fresh start, bringing himself close to that he admired).

I'm surprised that some felt that this was akin to having been lied to all along, and not knowing the character. It's not even the same as, say, a Don Draper; for all intents and purposes Nathan Drake was true to himself from the moment he went off on his own (leaving the 'boarding school'?) with his new name.

On Marlowe, I agree that she's wasted potential. All the ingredients were there for a more powerful villain than what we got. As we stand, Talbot could have carried the story much on his own without her.

One thing that isn't too clear to me is the hallucinogenic that Talbot uses through the game. I've played through the game once, so maybe I didn't catch all the details, but it seemed to me that it was exactly what the villains wanted to obtain from Iram. Yet, they already have this, or at least something nearly as good.

Another random bit: the dead suit in Chateau was clearly there to foreshadow the spider swarm. These don't have to be supernatural either, just clever movie-like traps like the Raiders snake room.
JumpingTheGun
Banned
(11-03-2011, 09:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Gyrian

On Nate's real name; my impression from the story is that it is only the last name that he picked up (giving himself a 'better' fresh start, bringing himself close to that he admired).

I'm surprised that some felt that this was akin to having been lied to all along, and not knowing the character. It's not even the same as, say, a Don Draper; for all intents and purposes Nathan Drake was true to himself from the moment he went off on his own (leaving the 'boarding school'?) with his new name.

On Marlowe, I agree that she's wasted potential. All the ingredients were there for a more powerful villain than what we got. As we stand, Talbot could have carried the story much on his own without her.

One thing that isn't too clear to me is the hallucinogenic that Talbot uses through the game. I've played through the game once, so maybe I didn't catch all the details, but it seemed to me that it was exactly what the villains wanted to obtain from Iram. Yet, they already have this, or at least something nearly as good.

Another random bit: the dead suit in Chateau was clearly there to foreshadow the spider swarm. These don't have to be supernatural either, just clever movie-like traps like the Raiders snake room.

exactly what I thought of everytime there was a scene with them.
stupei
Member
(11-03-2011, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

I'm pretty sure that there were some indications in the first two games that he's been bullshitting about being a descendant of Sir Francis Drake.

Pretty sure Elena very reasonably and logically points out that she thinks it's bullshit early on in Uncharted 1, but he convinces her as it goes on. I mean, how would he even know he's a bastard descendent of Drake's?

Personally I always thought it seemed suspect but that perhaps Drake actually was his last name which naturally drew him toward studying the other famous Drake and he thought it was a fine excuse for the particular brand of foolish bravery he wanted to partake in. I took it that he convinced himself of his own kinship because it provided a perfect example to model himself after. I guess his not really being a descendent of Francis Drake has always been a part of my own personal understanding of the character, but I didn't guess that he was actually lying about his name and sort of assumed the one he was really deluding was himself. To some extent, I think that's still true. (Or was. Presumably the ending implies he's more accepting now of who he really is, which - as some have already said in this thread - is now Nathan Drake.)
Auron_Kale
Santalope
(11-03-2011, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gyrian

One thing that isn't too clear to me is the hallucinogenic that Talbot uses through the game. I've played through the game once, so maybe I didn't catch all the details, but it seemed to me that it was exactly what the villains wanted to obtain from Iram. Yet, they already have this, or at least something nearly as good.

Another random bit: the dead suit in Chateau was clearly there to foreshadow the spider swarm. These don't have to be supernatural either, just clever movie-like traps like the Raiders snake room.

I think the drug in the dart that Talbot uses is a synthetic version of what they want. Notice that it was only the real deal in Iram that basically made you see Ghost Riders and see Sully get shot dead. Whereas when you're drugged initially, Nate was just loopy but everything was still 'realistic'.

And the bit with the dead suit - I was thinking of the The Mummy actually. Seeing the spiders start piling in from nowhere definitely reminded me of the scarabs.
Gyrian
Member
(11-03-2011, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by JumpingTheGun

exactly what I thought of everytime there was a scene with them.

Worth mentioning that they only appeared in places related to Francis Drake and his crew.
Like a security system designed to keep concealed what they discovered.
Angry Grimace
Member
(11-03-2011, 10:07 PM)
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Every time I heard Chloe talk I irresistibly heard Morrigan from Dragon Age. Maybe she could have altered the voice just a little because it was just distracting once I placed the voice.

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