[bigdaddygamebot]

They don't need to stay out of multiplayer, developers just need to be mindful that anything that can be farmed will be farmed, and mindful that most of their games, no matter how hard they worked on them, will be dead multiplayer-wise within a few months. Gears demonstrated how you can implement achievements across multiple game modes. The real problem is that if the achievement is "get 1000 kills", a majority of matches after a few months will be people standing a circle taking turns shooting each other.

True. I should have been more clear.

Achievements such as...

"Be the MVP for three games in a row!"

"Be in the top five of the leaderboards!"

Achievements that can be obtained through multiple game modes, Multi included I'm fine with.

[hayguyz]

No trophies, no buy.

They have ruined me....

I'm no longer playing a game the way I want to. I'm playing the game following a checklist made by someone else.

[bigdaddygamebot]

No trophies, no buy. They have ruined me.... I'm no longer playing a game the way I want to. I'm playing the game following a checklist made by someone else.

/secret shame

I would have played through Valkyria Chronicles multiple times if it had trophies.

/secret shame

[LiK]

/secret shame I would have played through Valkyria Chronicles multiple times if it had trophies. /secret shame

MGS4 would apply as well.

[tci]

I dislike the fact that you can't get 100% of the trophies without playing games on hard. playing games on hard difficulty, trying to get past infuriating parts over and over again, isn't something I'd call entertaining. I play games for entertainment, not to be frustrated. Leave the platinum trophy for those who want to play on hard, and let everyone else have a chance of getting 100%.

So you are saying that achievements shouldn't be achievements? If they aren't hard, they shouldn't put them in. That is what annoys me the most.

Played Gears 3 two days ago... getting achievements for finishing a level is laughable! Not the sole reason for stopping playing the game, but one of them.

[bigdaddygamebot]

MGS4 would apply as well.

Yep.

SO many different ways to play through games like those two, so many options in the game mechanics and some creative trophies would have encouraged some people to try playing in a different style than they are used to.

And Monster Hunter games...fuck...the fact that they don't have achievements/trophies is a fucking tragedy.

Along that line...but different.

Then there's games like Demon Souls / Dark Souls. SO many creative trophies they could have done in order to get the players to invest some time in the multitude of options in both games and they went super straight forward and grindy.

[hikarutilmitt]

I remember back in the day when I would speedrun a game or try to get through without dying (this inevitably evolved into going through without getting hit) or without using a specific ability, etc.

Remember when it was possible to do this just to impress friends or talk with them about doing it? Remember getting a perfect 000 file on Zelda LTTP meant that you sat your ass down and completed it in one sitting (on the cart!) and didn't die?

These days I'm hard pressed to play a game multiple times through unless its exceptionally fun, to me. It seems like the only games I play multiple times are games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Batman AC where they've got fun combat and there is actual challenge to playing a harder difficulty rather than just throwing things at you mercilessly.

[bigdaddygamebot]

I remember back in the day when I would speedrun a game or try to get through without dying (this inevitably evolved into going through without getting hit) or without using a specific ability, etc. Remember when it was possible to do this just to impress friends or talk with them about doing it? Remember getting a perfect 000 file on Zelda LTTP meant that you sat your ass down and completed it in one sitting (on the cart!) and didn't die? These days I'm hard pressed to play a game multiple times through unless its exceptionally fun, to me. It seems like the only games I play multiple times are games like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Batman AC where they've got fun combat and there is actual challenge to playing a harder difficulty rather than just throwing things at you mercilessly.

I imagine life is pretty fucking awesome for boys between the ages of 12 to 16. (It's not that bad for boys between 30 and 100 either)

I have a couple nephews that 1000 or Platinum games that I can't even begin to imagine what the time investment was. I'm envious...I think.

[GekigangerV]

MGS4 would apply as well.

I am curious, other than getting an arbitrary game score that chances are a few people other than you will see what is the difference between trophies and



Since Valkyria Chronicles and MGS4 don't have trophies its not like they will mess up your game score or anything. You can sit down and enjoy the game for a weekend or two.

[larvi]

What was so hard about Blue Dragon's achievements? Granted the button mashing ones sucked and didn't have any place in a rpg in my opinion but a turbo controller knocks them right out.

[Conciliator]

I'm not into achievement whoring at all, so they're just a nice little bonus to me. It is frustrating when all the achievements for a game are either for just playing and finishing the game normally or doing completely bonkers things that wouldn't be fun for anybody. Doesn't really add anything in those cases.

I definitely have some buddies that get hard into achievement whoring, and they have my legitimate sympathy. It sucks that people feel obligated to do something that they don't find entertaining and that has no productive effect on reality. John Lennon said that time enjoyed is never time wasted, but if you're wasting your time in a way that isn't even enjoyable...well, you see where I'm going. To that extent, I think we could live without them, but they ain't going nowhere.

[GraveRobberX]

Achievements/Trophies that really get under my skin are 2 types:

1. Glitched/Broken, no clue how they made it through QA, then through the certification process, then when told by gamers, trophies/cheevs are glitched as fuck, unobtainable by anyone on the fucking planet, either it's we're looking into it, sorry too late we've moved onto another project, or the classic new one devs out of business yo'.

2. Trophies/Cheevs that devs think will keep the player-base playing their title. Putting in ridiculous requirements, rather than reward you for enjoying the experience they compund it by forcing you to go out of your way to get it.

Examples:

Lead & Gold: Gangs of the Wild West - 1 Gold trophy requiring you to win 100 games, if you went over 100 games and it didn't unlock, the dev said tough shit, but people bitched and moaned and Sony came to the rescue by asking the dev to get this situated/fixed, it finally did

Homefront, you can get all the trophies, but the hurdle is the "Expert of War" trophy, asking you to get 300 wins + ridiculous amount of kills and level each weapon/vehicle/accessories, it's the only thing that holds you back from a platinum

Same goes for James Bond 007 Bloodstone, it has 2 fucking Bronze trophies which require at least 40+ hours each if YOU ARE BOOSTING!, so think how long it would take without, fucking Bizarre Creations, on one side you miss them, and on one side they left a final troll for gamers lol

[Zeliard]

3) For games with optional content, well designed achievements can reward alternate playstyles. I firmly believe that the companion achievements in Mass Effect 1 encouraged people to do multiple playthroughs and to use all possible squad members.

If you're going to play through Mass Effect 1 multiple times, then presumably you (the generic you) are enjoying the experience that much. Why the need for achievements to push you into doing something that you'd enjoy?

It carries with it the implication that if it wasn't for that type of achievement, you wouldn't bother playing a game again and doing some things differently even though it's something you'd have fun with. The inherent fun you'd have with that experience would be its own reward.

There's also the possibility that you wouldn't bother playing through a game in a certain way that you would otherwise enjoy if there wasn't an achievement for it. This was seen a lot in the Deus Ex: HR thread due to things like the pacifist achievement. People just killing themselves over not killing anyone, and saying they're doing so more for the achievement/trophy than any real impetus to play that way. It's one thing to want to go non-lethal, and another to get frustrated because you're not sure if a certain thing might have triggered as a kill and locked out the achievement.

Achievements have no effect on my personal enjoyment of a game but I do tend to see them negatively affect others', and for whatever good they may bring to some, it's unfortunate that they seem to be detrimental at times to the experiences some players have.

[Bliddo]

Good developers don't need them, good players don't need them. Harmless.

Good developers come up with great achievements, and good players might enjoy the extra challenge.
I would have never took the gnome to the end of HL2:EP2 if it wasn't for that achievement, and it was a blast(off).

[MjFrancis]

I couldn't give two shits about trophies.

I don't care what Steam says I earned in a game.

I do pay heed to my achievement points on the 360.

It doesn't affect me in a completely OCD fashion, thankfully. Usually I'll try to get as many as I can, and for the small amount of games I've played I've completed about half of them 100% or something like that. At the same time, I don't care that games like Blacklight: Tango Down have zero achievements on my part or that I earned one 20 point achievement in Kane & Lynch. They are statements on the value I gave those titles. A 1000/1000 on Civilization Revolution or even the gamerscore I have on Gears 1 are public record of my validation of those games.

I'd be ashamed to have 1000/1000 for Avatar on my profile; it would be a monument to the gaming world proclaiming my disdain for my own time and willingness to play crap for the sake of arbitrary numbers at the end of my gaming tag.

That said, I've used achievement points as a barometer to play less games more frequently and to play them to completion if I truly enjoy them. They are a deciding factor on what system I'll buy a game on, albeit a minuscule one.

[ihearthawthats]

The real problem is that if the achievement is "get 1000 kills", a majority of matches after a few months will be people standing a circle taking turns shooting each other.

this exists in a lot of places. sure trophies can theoretically be harmless, but in many cases they aren't. i don't feel that the positive benefits of trophies outweigh the negatives, so i'd rather just not have the system at all.

[RooMHM]

Gamers need motivation to play games. *sadface*

[Tobor]

I have no problems with achievements. When done well, they lead to a better experience and more fun. When done poorly, I ignore them. It's a win/win scenario.

That said, anyone saying "Cheevo" is a tool.

[bigdaddygamebot]

I am curious, other than getting an arbitrary game score that chances are a few people other than you will see what is the difference between trophies and Since Valkyria Chronicles and MGS4 don't have trophies its not like they will mess up your game score or anything. You can sit down and enjoy the game for a weekend or two.

It's not about a "game score" and it's definitely not about what people will see it.

It's about having a record of what I played somewhere and looking over the achievements/trophies, I remember those experiences. I also like to compare what some people have gotten to what I have gotten. This isn't about boasting. It's about how I am curious regarding how other people are playing the same game that I am.

The system in MGS4 was nice but it falls outside of the universal trophy system so in the end...I can only view it by putting the game in. I'm not saying it's wrong or unwanted. I'm just saying that for me...the MGS4 system didn't work.

You don't just sit down with a game like Valkyria Chronicles and play it for a weekend or two...

I played it and beat it.

I know the story.

So if I go back, it's to challenge myself and try some different things. Yes...yes, I know. The purists will call me a savage for not playing the game a second and third time simply because it's great.

With the limited time I have and the high number of games there are to play, having the incentive of earning some trophies for it would encourage me to play it again and most likely in an entirely different fashion than I did the previous time.

Achievements/Trophies that really get under my skin are 2 types: 1. Glitched/Broken, no clue how they made it through QA, then through the certification process, then when told by gamers, trophies/cheevs are glitched as fuck, unobtainable by anyone on the fucking planet, either it's we're looking into it, sorry too late we've moved onto another project, or the classic new one devs out of business yo'. 2. Trophies/Cheevs that devs think will keep the player-base playing their title. Putting in ridiculous requirements, rather than reward you for enjoying the experience they compund it by forcing you to go out of your way to get it. Examples: Lead & Gold: Gangs of the Wild West - 1 Gold trophy requiring you to win 100 games, if you went over 100 games and it didn't unlock, the dev said tough shit, but people bitched and moaned and Sony came to the rescue by asking the dev to get this situated/fixed, it finally did Homefront, you can get all the trophies, but the hurdle is the "Expert of War" trophy, asking you to get 300 wins + ridiculous amount of kills and level each weapon/vehicle/accessories, it's the only thing that holds you back from a platinum Same goes for James Bond 007 Bloodstone, it has 2 fucking Bronze trophies which require at least 40+ hours each if YOU ARE BOOSTING!, so think how long it would take without, fucking Bizarre Creations, on one side you miss them, and on one side they left a final troll for gamers lol

See...and this just adds fuel to the fire for the folks that are against achievements.

[Lance Bone Path]

As much as I don't like or care for achievements/trophies, I am curious about the brave new world of social networking sites after they get full integrated with achievements/trophies.

After all, there needs to be a quantitative way to keep track of the score for the people who are winning at "life".

[IoCaster]

Thinking back on my history of playing I've always created my own challenges in my favorite games. I played certain DOOM levels obsessively just to complete them without taking any damage. Same thing with Quake or FEAR or any number of other games. Trying to clear a level in Splinter Cell, Thief, Hitman or whatever without being detected was always a self created/motivated goal.

Having said that, I don't give a crap about achievements in most of the games I play because they present a challenge that holds no interest for me. A recent example would be DX:HR and the 'Pacifist' achievement. I have no intention of ever going for it because there's no internal logic in the story/plot for me to play the game that way. Instead I opt to create my own objectives that provide a better experience. I recently replayed the game with the goal of getting Ghost+Smooth Operator on every level with the restriction that I had to kill all enemies, zero takedowns and not use any non-lethal weapon. So basically I needed to take everyone out with silenced pistol, sniper rifle or crossbow without ever being seen and no hostile notifications or alarms. That was intense and loads of fun. Much better than any of the actual 'achievements' included in the base game for me.

The other problem that I have with achievements is shit like this...



I played a bunch of hours, beat the end boss (Nene) and finished the game. Why have a bunch of achievements that are not tied into or relevant to the base game? What's the point?

[StevePharma]

They don't need to stay out of multiplayer, developers just need to be mindful that anything that can be farmed will be farmed, and mindful that most of their games, no matter how hard they worked on them, will be dead multiplayer-wise within a few months. Gears demonstrated how you can implement achievements across multiple game modes. The real problem is that if the achievement is "get 1000 kills", a majority of matches after a few months will be people standing a circle taking turns shooting each other.

This is true. On another sad note, a lot of MP-modes in AA-games are usually pretty much abandoned for 2-3 months after release. Space Marine on console (and PC?) seems like a good recent example to me, just like Bioshock 2 and Dead Space 2 when they came out. I just can't bear myself to play that shitty Bioshock 2 MP to lvl 50 even though I have all the SP-trophies. Boosting is something I would never ever do to 1000/1000 or Platinum a game, that is some serious OCD (which I do suffer from a bit, but not on that level).

Also, since the achievement/trophy system I noticed that I am completing a lot more games on harder difficulties, when in previous generations I usually couldn't be bothered for most of the games. While there are some frustratingly difficult games out there, it made me appreciate the game design of certain games more when playing on harder difficulties. The fact that an achievement system contributed to that mindset turned out pretty positive for me.

[bigdaddygamebot]

This is true. On another sad note, a lot of MP-modes in AA-games are usually pretty much abandoned for 2-3 months after release. Space Marine on console (and PC?) seems like a good recent example to me...

Space Marine multi is still alive and kicking.

[Struct09]

I have no problems with achievements. When done well, they lead to a better experience and more fun. When done poorly, I ignore them. It's a win/win scenario.

Was just about to type out pretty much exactly this. When a developer creates an awesome set of achievements it can be a lot of fun to hunt them down. When a developer half-asses the achievements I just don't even bother.

I do think that care needs to go into designing multiplayer achievements. It's frustrating when you're playing a team-based game and some players are so focused on getting their achievements that they bring your team down.

[Bomber Bob]

usually dont give a crap


but I always look at the trophy list just in case

[StevePharma]

Space Marine multi is still alive and kicking.

Ok, I stand corrected.

[Stumpokapow]

If you're going to play through Mass Effect 1 multiple times, then presumably you (the generic you) are enjoying the experience that much. Why the need for achievements to push you into doing something that you'd enjoy?

It's not a need, it's an in-game reminder that you have alternative options you may not be considering, and it's a permanent record if you do choose to use them, and in Mass Effect's case, it's also tied to in-game unlocks anyway.

I finished ME1 7 times, the last three or four of which did not involve achievements at all.

There's also the possibility that you wouldn't bother playing through a game in a certain way that you would otherwise enjoy if there wasn't an achievement for it. This was seen a lot in the Deus Ex: HR thread due to things like the pacifist achievement. People just killing themselves over not killing anyone, and saying they're doing so more for the achievement/trophy than any real impetus to play that way. It's one thing to want to go non-lethal, and another to get frustrated because you're not sure if a certain thing might have triggered as a kill and locked out the achievement.

The prototypical achievement brought up for this is with Mirror's Edge's no-guns achievement. I did the no guns achievement for Mirror's Edge on my first and only playthrough and did not find it frustrating. If not for the achievement, I still could have gone no guns, but I probably would not have thought to, since you only get the guns rarely. If it was an in-game title or something instead of an achievement, I would have done it, but I like the fact that it's recorded for posterity and comparable with other people. Ditto HL2EP1 no-guns.

Another example here is something like difficulty achievements. I play significantly more games on hard these days because achievements encourage me to. I could have anyway, obviously. But now that I actually talk to my friends about the difficulties that we play on, there's a competition element, and so I often play on Hard. It can occasionally be frustrating, but I keep the frustration to a good minimum--I wouldn't play something like Red Faction Guerrilla on hard because it's obnoxious, but I like getting the shit kicked out of me by a game for a few minutes before I can overcome it.

If someone is ruining the game by going after an unenjoyable achievement, well, that's their prerogative. I don't. I might start to go after that achievement, but if it gets to the point where it's more insane than challenging, I'm not going to go for it.

this exists in a lot of places. sure trophies can theoretically be harmless, but in many cases they aren't. i don't feel that the positive benefits of trophies outweigh the negatives, so i'd rather just not have the system at all.

If trophies and achievements didn't exist, people would still be gaming multiplayer unlock / equipment / loadout systems. The entire game design of multiplayer in 2011 rewards time investment and farming over brief but skilled play. There's nothing inherent in trophies or achievements that disrupts the normal rhythm of the game, but when they are designed in a way that someone is rewarded for farming instead of playing, people will.

[Bomber Bob]

BTW I totally prefer time tracking (a la Steam) rather than Achievements

[bigdaddygamebot]

Ok, I stand corrected.

Sorry man. I'm neurotic and I couldn't let that go.

[Stumpokapow]

BTW I totally prefer time tracking (a la Steam) rather than Achievements

They shouldn't be mutually exclusive even if they currently are. The Wii has a ghetto time tracking program that doesn't aggregate or share well with no achievements or presence data, the 3DS has a ghetto time tracking program that properly aggregates but doesn't share with no achievements or presence data, Steam has a time tracking program that aggregates and shares well in list form but iffy achievements or weak presence data, 360 has achievements and presence data but no time tracking.

And achievements, presence data, and time tracking are all trivially easy to implement :p

The other problem that I have with achievements is shit like this... I played a bunch of hours, beat the end boss (Nene) and finished the game. Why have a bunch of achievements that are not tied into or relevant to the base game? What's the point?

Blue Dragon's achievements reward:
1) Doing each scenario well (IE mashed the button to close the doors in the flying fortress an hour in)
2) Trying each class and each character
3) Collecting rare items and defeating rare monsters.

Those are basically everything an RPG has in the way of optional content. I like those achievements. I think some people would have liked a few more related to the main plot (both for tracking / comparison purposes and because a lot of people like "easy" achievements hahaha), but I actually like the focus on forcing you to try out everything the game has to offer.

Insofar as an RPG can have thoughtful or innovative achievements, the only thing missing in Blue Dragon was rewarding low level or speedruns.

[LiquidMetal14]

BTW I totally prefer time tracking (a la Steam) rather than Achievements

Why the name change? Unless someone else stole your av :P

[Dipswitch]

If I enjoy a single player game, and the achievements are all SP based, I'll go for 1000/1000. If the SP game is generally frustrating or the achievements span SP and MP, I'm done when I finish the SP game - BF3 is a good example of this. Finished it on hard and got 255/1000 gamer points with no desire to get anymore.

I've made a few exceptions to this rule of course. Getting the Mile High Club achievement on MW wasn't enjoyable in the least. Felt proud when I finally got it done, but it sure as shit wasn't worth the time or stress. Haven't been that fussed on achievements since.

[Tobor]

Stump is exactly right.

Just like any other aspect of game design, good developers should pay attention and design thoughtful achievements that reward the player properly.

It's all about execution. These conversations tend to focus on a binary "achievements or no achievements" when that ship has clearly sailed. They are here to stay long term. We should be focused on getting more developers to design them well.

[firehawk12]

What about odd numbered achievements? Those are the most evil thing developers have come up with and, I'm sad to say, I will not play a game with odd numbered achievements.

[Hitoribhoshi]

I found a system that works for me :
I play on 360, was into the whole "let's not put that game yet in the dvd tray not to fuck up my GS", since then got into a shoot them up (Cave) craze, and those aren't 1000/1000able if you're human, so I tend to care much less about my GS now.

Plus, when there's a game I just want to play ONCE no mater what (I play FPS for campaign only) I play it on another account.

Also, I got a ps3 last year, I own a handful of games (GT5, FFXIIIas, Heavy Rain, Demon Souls, GoW, Uncharteds etc), kept my ps3 in homebrew mode for region A blurays (I'm in europe) and emulators, since I never got on PSN I don not care for trophies either.

This helps a lot with enjoying the games and not looking at all at youtube or gamefaqs walk through.

also, MP achievements should be banned.

[strem]

I fucking love cheevos! I love getting them on xbox and Steam. Still trying to get in to collecting them on PS3. Maybe I'll start with Uncharted 3.

[mernst23]

Shrug, i have like a 65k ish gamerscore and played crap I normally wouldn't touch. 1500 in GTAIV, 1000 In Perfect Dark, 3000 in the First 2 Gears games, COD/COD2/COD3/COD4/W@W accounts for 4200. Yes I boosted CTFlag in COD3 like a moron.

I dunno, achievement whoring and grinding got old. The last game I 1500'd was Red Dead Redemption and that was almost a year ago now, and it was actually really fun to do with the exception of canyon running for level 50. Back when i was in college or unemployed looking for a job it was something to do, now I don't care anymore and will go for the full gamerscore in games I actually like playing.

In reality I just have less time to play videogames, so achievements are becoming less and less important. Granted I will get Seriously 3.0 in Gears 3 because it's my favorite gaming series of this generation but I'll definitely pack it away to play games like Skyward Sword, or UMVC3 and eventually the new Batman, MW3, etc.

[Arjen]

My take on Achievements for single player games.
Finish the game, and after that check out the achievement list.
If there's something that looks like fun or challenging to do i'll do it.
This way all the problems the writer in the op's article has goes away.

[May16]

The problemlies with mainly with the assumption that gamers will be able to ignore them if they wish to do so; whilst some have the ability to play without thinking too much about these evil little unlocks, many like myself find it impossible to ignore the lure of having a quick look at the achievement list.

The problemlies with mainly with...myself

I've never cared about trophies or even looked at my "collection." I laugh when people clamor for HD remakes of old games and beg for trophies. I laugh because I am superior to these people.

[CoffeeJanitor]

achievement/trophie chasing is completely optional, grow up people

Agreed. I'm not the biggest fan of achievements, but you know what? I just ignore them. Problem solved for me, and the crazy ones who speedrun Cars can keep doing their thing as well.

The only thing I would ask for to be is standard is the ability to turn off the notification for getting these, it can be really annoying.

[JaseC]

The prototypical achievement brought up for this is with Mirror's Edge's no-guns achievement. I did the no guns achievement for Mirror's Edge on my first and only playthrough and did not find it frustrating. If not for the achievement, I still could have gone no guns, but I probably would not have thought to, since you only get the guns rarely. If it was an in-game title or something instead of an achievement, I would have done it, but I like the fact that it's recorded for posterity and comparable with other people. Ditto HL2EP1 no-guns.

But achievement requires that you fire precisely one bullet, hence the name: One Free Bullet. :p

[Stumpokapow]

But achievement requires that you fire precisely one bullet, hence its name: One Free Bullet. :p

Well, yes. Also you get to use the gravity gun, and shooting debris is still shooting, but the principle is still the same ;)

[OldJadedGamer]

My take on Achievements for single player games. Finish the game, and after that check out the achievement list. If there's something that looks like fun or challenging to do i'll do it. This way all the problems the writer in the op's article has goes away.

This is how I view them. Somestimes they will get me to finish tasks I started but would have given up on. For instance in Asscreed Brotherhood MP I was rank 40 and thought about quitting but figured I would just go on to 50 to get the achievement.

[mernst23]

Well, yes. Also you get to use the gravity gun, and shooting debris is still shooting, but the principle is still the same ;)

Combine this with the Gnome Chompsky achievement and Hl2 becomes a weird and annoying experience.

[GraveRobberX]

Well I set 3 Gaming goals for myself and want them achieved, this is when trophies were announced, way before the duck360's/Hakoom's of the world showed up and made it go from a wholesome thing to a competitive sport

1. Get to PSN level 25+, I'm @PSN lvl 27
2. Get over 5,000+ Trophies, I'm @ 5,400+
3. Get 100 Platinums, I'm @85, so only 15 more to go

Then I'm going cold turkey in the sense
No more buying them for trophy count sake
I also have a huge backlog of 40+ games that I need to play enjoy/complete
(These are all retail copies)

I may get up to 110+ platinums in the process, but I will not be buying much stuff new, just cause I need to have the latest "It" title GAF is raving about an I need to OCD it to 11 and get it done

It will be retirement in a sense, cause my backlog alone can keep me busy for 1.5+ years... easily

[jkoch]

More importantly, I no longer have the ability to share gamesaves with friends as a result. Screw that.

Ah, that's a good point. If it weren't for trophies, I probably would have been able to back up my Bayonetta and Demons Souls saves, rather than losing them when my first PS3 died.

[macuser1of5]

duck360's/Hakoom

I looked this up and it mentioned something about the hardest platinum being obtained? What game is responsible for that one? I assume it has to do with online play.

[scosher]

Achievements/trophies only suck for those with OCD. Otherwise, they're just optional challenges. But for those with OCD, optional becomes compulsory.

[guek]

they're harmless fun for the most part but I do wish I could disable achievements. They can occasionally be neat challenges, but I usually find myself just getting annoyed with them.

*Achievement Unlocked! You started the game!*

*Achievement Unlocked! You fired a gun!*

*Achievement unlocked! You played 30 minutes!*

ugh...

[Coxswain]

The other problem that I have with achievements is shit like this... [IMG]http://www.iocaster.com/images/bluedragon.png[IMG] I played a bunch of hours, beat the end boss (Nene) and finished the game. Why have a bunch of achievements that are not tied into or relevant to the base game? What's the point?

I think that's the model that games should be taking after. If none of the achievements (or at least a very small percentage) were tied into the game's critical path, then all of them would represent rewarding the player for going above and beyond the bare minimum required to beat the game, and taking on optional content and alternative playstyles. That's the ideal they should be aiming for; if beating the game leaves me with less than 50/1000G on a game, that's even more incentive to not only play it again, but to play it in a way that takes me out of the comfort zone of my ordinary playing style.

(Blue Dragon specifically kind of annoyed me because a huge chunk of the achievements were just "Grind the fuck out of the game long past the point where leveling up is useful to you so you can max out your levels" which isn't very interesting, but apart from those ones I thought they had a good achievement structure.)