[Lanbeast]

Penn State paying AD's legal costs Good god, Spanier is a dumbass.

So, Pennsylvania tax dollars?

[Instigator]

I mean it was involuntary on part of the minor.

Makes little sense. Raped women are also involuntary. Why use an unnecessary long and nebulous description for something that can only be two things: rape of minors or statutory rape?

[JoeBoy101]

"Unfortunately," Scott Paterno said, "once that happened, there was really nothing more Joe felt he could do because he did not witness the event. You can't call the police and say, 'Somebody tells me they saw somebody else do something.' That's hearsay. Police don't take reports in that manner. Frankly, from the way he understood the process, he passed the information on to the appropriate university official and they said they were taking care of it. That's really all he could do."

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!?

You're not the goddamn prosecutor of this case, Scooter! Its not up to you to decide if there is enough evidence to prove something happened and whose at fault. You had a legitamite accusation with a DIRECT EYEWITNESS statement and your wrinkled decrepit father had an obligation to report it to more than just his boss.

Police take reports on everything. Why don't you let THEM decide whether to take it seriously or not.

[andycapps]

Made it to page 7, that is quite enough.

Same, day is ruined. :/

[blame space]

this is some grim shit

[Hari Seldon]

So, Pennsylvania tax dollars?

Penn State only gets a little funding from the state. Contrary to its name, it is not a state school.

[Hari Seldon]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!? You're not the goddamn prosecutor of this case, Scooter! Its not up to you to decide if there is enough evidence to prove something happened and whose at fault. You had a legitamite accusation with a DIRECT EYEWITNESS statement and your wrinkled decrepit father had an obligation to report it to more than just his boss. Police take reports on everything. Why don't you let THEM decide whether to take it seriously or not.

One thing that no one seems to be reporting is that the person Joe Paterno reported the incident to was the head of the campus HR and campus police. So Paterno reported it to the correct people.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/11311/1188148-298.stm

[Lonestar]

No Words

That pdf from the grand jury....

[JoeBoy101]

One thing that no one seems to be reporting is that the person Joe Paterno reported the incident to was the head of the campus HR and campus police. So Paterno reported it to the correct people. http://www.postgazette.com/pg/11311/1188148-298.stm

Is that link going to where its supposed to be going? That article doesn't mention much at all about Paterno.

EDIT: Hang on, reading fail. Lemme look at it again.

EDIT2: I dunno, Hari. I see your argument, but strikes me as a weak one. That's like seeing a rape and reporting it to the mayor because he oversees the police department of a city. Perhaps he had that in mind, but given it happened in 2002, Paterno would have to be blind to miss the inaction in the near 10 years between then and now.

[xavi42]

The best thing to do would be to burn the entire institution to the ground and just rebuild from there. Sickening.

[truly101]

If you want to have your day ruined, read the grand jury report in its entirety.

Yeah, just don't do that actually.

[samus i am]

Did Joe Paterno do what what required of him? Yes. For that reason I think he shouldn't be asked to retire. However, I personally think he could and should have done more.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Penn State only gets a little funding from the state. Contrary to its name, it is not a state school.

It is a land grant university.

Man, this is seriously making me relive my enitre childhood in State College.

[Ken Masters]

Did Joe Paterno do what what required of him? Yes. For that reason I think he shouldn't be asked to retire. However, I personally think he could and should have done more.

But he knew what was going on, to say "hey, he reported something so he's clean" is bullshit, but that's what the sport media will say

[Dude Abides]

Well, like I stated earlier, I was friends with Sandusky's son. Its been decades since I was last in contact with him, but I keep wondering what he and the rest of family are going through.

Any ideas about why his wife seems to have been completely clueless?

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Any ideas about why his wife seems to have been completely clueless?

I dunno man, growing up in State College in the 80's was very...idyllic. It was a university town, relatively diverse for where it was located in Pennsyltucky. I can only guess that Mrs. Sandusky was raising the kids and letting her husband go to work, and being happy she had a spouse of prominence in town? I have no clue to be honest.

For me, Mrs Sandusky was the nice woman who washed my pants after I took a spill all over some dog crap in the back yard. Despite there being a pantsless young Asian boy in the house, wasn't like Mr. Sandusky was putting the moves on me. I'm flabbergastedm confused and horrifed to be honest.

[harSon]

I still don't get how Paterno is at fault. He reported the information given to him to the proper people within the College, and as far as I know, we don't really know what happened after that. For all we know, he could have been told that a proper investigation had taken place and nothing of the sort was found. How is he supposed to know that his superiors are shitty enough people to cover up child molestation? He certainly could have followed up intensely, but it's easy to make those types of judgements after the fact...

[samus i am]

But he knew what was going on, to say "hey, he reported something so he's clean" is bullshit, but that's what the sport media will say

But he did report it. He just didn't follow up on it, which he isn't really required to do.

[Alcibiades]

Paterno really should have followed up a bit more, but I wouldn't say he is at particular fault for not resolving this. He didn't see a crime take place, but rather heard something second-hand. He wasn't there and doesn't know what did or didn't happen or whether this is some false accusation, so he reported what he heard to people in charge of handling these things.

It is the graduate assistant who should have been more vigilant IMO. He should have found out who the boy was, gone to talk the mother, and gotten the police involved (though I can see even being witness to something like that being pretty traumatizing). That said, neither of them are at fault compared to the higher ups who tried to cover things up and then lied about it.

Makes me sad for humanity when I read about this :(

[Ninja Scooter]

Paterno should be gone because he doesn't do shit and is nothing but a figure head. Penn St. should be itching to use this as a reason to run him out of town.

[Dude Abides]

But he did report it. He just didn't follow up on it, which he isn't really required to do.

I think the notion is that when one of your assistants tells you he saw your former DC, who is still closely associated with the athletic department, butt-fucking a ten year old in the shower of your athletic facility, there may be a moral obligation to do something more than the absolute bare minimum.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

The thing that makes me stop is this:

Joe Paterno is a football coach, and not a criminal investigator. If he kept pressing for investigation or inquiring about it, at what point does it become interference? At what point would law enforcement usually say, "Chill, joe. We got this."

I will admit that having been raised from ages 6 - 13 in State College during the 80's, I have had a very healthy dose of the JoePa Kool-Aid.

[Schmitty]

It's been reported in The Daily Collegian (student newspaper) that Penn State administration is using insurance money set aside for lawsuits to cover the costs of the legal fees they are paying. There was uproar from alumni and students alike when we heard the uni was paying those fees so now they are on damage control with that.

The Daily Collegian is filled with letters to the editors of disgust from the situation. It is almost unanimous that everyone involved needs to go, including some who want the president, Spanier to go as well. It is a grim day on campus.

I'd rather the AD be caught paying players.

[Schmitty]

I think the notion is that when one of your assistants tells you he saw your former DC, who is still closely associated with the athletic department, butt-fucking a ten year old in the shower of your athletic facility, there may be a moral obligation to do something more than the absolute bare minimum.

According to Paterno, he wasn't given the gritty details that are described in the grand jury proceedings.

Sorry for the double

[AndyD]

According to Paterno, he wasn't given the gritty details that are described in the grand jury proceedings. Sorry for the double

Yea, supposedly he was only told of something inappropriate but not details. So simply based on that you report it and let other take care of it.

My question is who is the graduate that witnessed it, and why did he/she not say anything to the police when nothing happened internally after weeks or months or even years?

[Dude Abides]

According to Paterno, he wasn't given the gritty details that are described in the grand jury proceedings. Sorry for the double

Paterno was the second person that McQueary told, after telling his dad. I find it difficult to believe that McQueary was all vague about it. Paterno testified that after the McQueary spoke to him, he told Curley that McQueary said he had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature." I think, if McQueary is to be believed, that what JoePa was told was enough to know something serious had occurred.

Edit:

My question is who is the graduate that witnessed it, and why did he/she not say anything to the police when nothing happened internally after weeks or months or even years?

Mike McQueary, current WRs coach. Maybe he didn't want to make waves and jeopardize his future with the program. Nobody involved in this story comported themselves well.

[Alcibiades]

Paterno should be gone because he doesn't do shit and is nothing but a figure head. Penn St. should be itching to use this as a reason to run him out of town.

disagree completely... paterno could go 0-12 and I don't think he should be fired (and I thought the same for bowden)... when a person contributes that much to your university (and hey it's not like Penn St. hasn't been competitive the last decade) you humor that person in a figurehead position until they are in their grave...

but all of that is football, not really related here... i don't think he should be fired, but if he was better for this than for his football record...

What I don't understand is how creepy adults are given so much alone time with kids. I also think the wife must have at least had some suspicions if not outright known about her husband. Supposing she is in the house, isn't is suspicious her husband is sneaking out of bed anytime the kids are sleeping in the basement?

I don't like to prejudge people and consider myself really, really open-minded, but when an adult man wants to spend a lot of time alone with little kids there is no way that isn't gonna raise a red flag for me. Although I probably would publicly raise suspicions I'm at least going to keep more alert and look for any other signs. And I wouldn't be hesitant to keep and eye out even if the person I suspected was a friend or family member.

[Schmitty]

Yea, supposedly he was only told of something inappropriate but not details. So simply based on that you report it and let other take care of it. My question is who is the graduate that witnessed it, and why did he/she not say anything to the police when nothing happened internally after weeks or months or even years?

I think it has been found that the unnamed grad assistant is current WR coach McQueary who also told his father what he saw. I'm not too certain that is 100% true.

[diffusionx]

Paterno needs to be run out of town. Yea, he only heard the info second hand, but he allowed this predator on campus until 2009. He let the guy coach kids until 2009. That's unconscionable. I can see him not wanting to call the cops on his friend of 3 decades, but he heard the guy was violating young boys. And he continued to give him access to young boys.

I respected Paterno a lot, and it does not make me happy to say this.

[W Hudson]

Was able to read through the grand jury report. Hard to read to say the least. So much for Penn State's "Success with Honor" bullshit. Covering up and enabling a pederast pretty much shuts the door on that one.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Or, from State College to State Penitentiary.

Rockview State Penintentiary is actually right outside State College.

[hoos30]

According to Paterno, he wasn't given the gritty details that are described in the grand jury proceedings. Sorry for the double

Yeah, and Paterno (I mean the PR hack who actually wrote that statement) is lying through his teeth. The "I didn't know" tact is just him trying to cover his ass after the fact.

Remember, the first public accusations against Sandusky came out in 1998. Then, surprise!, he resigns the next year. When the 2002 accusations arose, you mean the God of Happy Valley couldn't put 2 + 2 together?

Sandusky was a potential candidate for my alma mater's (Virginia) open head coaching job in the late 90s and word on the street is that it was Paterno himself who warned us off.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I bet they wish he would stop wearing Penn State apparel.

[GoldenEye 007]

The Pennsylvania attorney general is laying into the university at his press conference. Says Joe Paterno has been cooperative.

[Novid]

Im looking at the press confrence.

This shit is FOUL, SON.

Foul in the sense of how the fuck nobody sent this dude away after the issue in 98?

[krameriffic]

Needs more Herman Cain gif.

[lush]

Dear God this shit is disturbing. Paterno's career is now completely tarnished, heads need to start rolling and fast.

[GoldenEye 007]

Penn St. PD first "handled" this issue in 1998? And didn't do anything? WOW

[sajj316]

No Words That pdf from the grand jury....

Just read it and can't stop shaking my head .. disgusting. At least 8 victims.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Dear God this shit is disturbing. Paterno's career is now completely tarnished, heads need to start rolling and fast.

Whoa whoa whoa.

Just because this happened doesn't mean Paterno all of the sudden ripped off his rubber mask and turned into a monster. Joe Paterno is still a good person, he's just not the paragon of coaching perfection everyone else made him out to be. At worst, he's self interested.

Jerry Sandusky was his friend for I'm assuming 30 or so years. So when he heard about the first allegations back in 98 he reported to the police and the University authorities. Why didn't he get more into it? Would you want to fully delve into what sort of monster your friend/colleague of 30 years is? By knowing less, and completing due diligence of reporting, Joe gets to play both sides, which is totally human. He reports a crime, and he also protects himself. That's completely understandable. And from what is coming out, he pretty much kept other schools from hiring Snadusky, which explains the bitterness from Sandusky.

Yeah, I wished he woulda done more. But, I can't say I wouldn't have had the same conflict.

[bigtroyjon]

Whoa whoa whoa. Just because this happened doesn't mean Paterno all of the sudden ripped off his rubber mask and turned into a monster. Joe Paterno is still a good person, he's just not the paragon of coaching perfection everyone else made him out to be. At worst, he's self interested. Jerry Sandusky was his friend for I'm assuming 30 or so years. So when he heard about the first allegations back in 98 he reported to the police and the University authorities. Why didn't he get more into it? Would you want to fully delve into what sort of monster your friend/colleague of 30 years is? By knowing less, and completing due diligence of reporting, Joe gets to play both sides, which is totally human. He reports a crime, and he also protects himself. That's completely understandable.

Are you kidding me? He knew he was a fucking pedophile and still let the guy bring a kid along on a bowl trip and didn't say a word when the guy would bring kids to practice.

Paterno may have covered his ass criminally but morally he is just as fucked up as the rest of the people covering this up.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Are you kidding me? He knew he was a fucking pedophile and still let the guy bring a kid along on a bowl trip and didn't say a word when the guy would bring kids to practice. Paterno may have covered his ass criminally but morally he is just as fucked up as the rest of the people covering this up.

Nope, I am not kidding you.

I am saying that in situations like this, with the length and history of the type of relationship Paterno and Sandusky had, it wouldn't be as black/white as people on the outside see it or want it to be.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Whoa whoa whoa. Just because this happened doesn't mean Paterno all of the sudden ripped off his rubber mask and turned into a monster. Joe Paterno is still a good person, he's just not the paragon of coaching perfection everyone else made him out to be. At worst, he's self interested. Jerry Sandusky was his friend for I'm assuming 30 or so years. So when he heard about the first allegations back in 98 he reported to the police and the University authorities. Why didn't he get more into it? Would you want to fully delve into what sort of monster your friend/colleague of 30 years is? By knowing less, and completing due diligence of reporting, Joe gets to play both sides, which is totally human. He reports a crime, and he also protects himself. That's completely understandable. And from what is coming out, he pretty much kept other schools from hiring Snadusky, which explains the bitterness from Sandusky. Yeah, I wished he woulda done more. But, I can't say I wouldn't have had the same conflict.

The "understandably conflicted" argument, while probably relevant for things like fraud, is pretty much thrown out the window when you strongly suspect your friend of 30 years is raping little boys. Honestly, if Paterno warned other schools off from Sandusky that just makes it even worse.

[bigtroyjon]

Nope, I am not kidding you. I am saying that in situations like this, with the length and history of the type of relationship Paterno and Sandusky had, it wouldn't be as black/white as people on the outside see it or want it to be.

I guess all I can say is that if you think that a 30 year old friendship is worth allowing someone to rape 10 year olds, then I think you've got some serious mental problems.

[diffusionx]

Nope, I am not kidding you. I am saying that in situations like this, with the length and history of the type of relationship Paterno and Sandusky had, it wouldn't be as black/white as people on the outside see it or want it to be.

Paterno might have covered his own ass, he was probably crushed that his friend of 30 years was a deviant (who wouldn't be shocked, if this came out about your friend?) but it still makes him an enabler.

We're not talking about Sandusky giving players bundles of cash. We're not talking about Sandusky doing lines of coke with the QB or whatever. That would make Paterno an asshole, but all these coaches are.

We're talking about Paterno continuing to give Sandusky access to young boys years after it was obvious that he was a predator. If JoePa wanted to stop Sandusky's BS foundation work that was really a front for molestation, he could have. He didn't, so Paterno deserves the criticism he is getting. Paterno is a very, very bad person.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I guess all I can say is that if you think that a 30 year old friendship is worth allowing someone to rape 10 year olds, then I think you've got some serious mental problems.

Either my writing sucks or your comprehension sucks.

All I said, was that JoePa's action or inaction, was colored by his relationship with Sandusky. I didn't say it was OK, but I'm also saying that it doesn't make JoePa a monster on Sandusky's level.

[blame space]

Needs more Herman Cain gif. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JVeGL.gif

ok

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Either my writing sucks or your comprehension sucks. All I said, was that JoePa's action or inaction, was colored by his relationship with Sandusky. I didn't say it was OK, but I'm also saying that it doesn't make JoePa a monster.

Your reaction is colored by your relationship with the family. Which in your case, is perfectly understandable! You spent a lot of time with a seemingly idyllic family which apparently held an unspeakably dark secret, which is very difficult for you to reconcile many years later.

And it's not about something as binary as Paterno being a "monster" or not, or even a "bad person" or not. I don't really know what the official criteria is for "bad people". But ignoring compelling evidence that your old friend is a child rapist is BAD. Really bad, and not in a particularly "understandable" sense. If it's not a black and white issue, then it's a very very very very dark gray, at least.

[MaddenNFL64]

I don't think JoePa should be hurt at all by this. He told someone directly related to Campus police. He's not a hero by any means, but he's not a villain.

Get everyone else the fuck outta there though.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Your reaction is colored by your relationship with the family. Which in your case, is perfectly understandable! You spent a lot of time with a seemingly idyllic family which apparently held an unspeakably dark secret, which is very difficult for you to reconcile many years later. And it's not about something as binary as Paterno being a "monster" or not, or even a "bad person" or not. I don't really know what the official criteria is for "bad people". But ignoring compelling evidence that your old friend is a child rapist is BAD. Really bad, and not in a particularly "understandable" sense. If it's not a black and white issue, then it's a very very very very dark gray, at least.

Ok, I will admit that. My interactions with the Sandusky's have never been anything but positive. And as I stated before, given when I was a resident of State College, I left there is a very slanted image of who Joe Paterno is.