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DmC developers at Ninja Theory inviting Top DMC players to test game

scitek

Member
I think when Ninja Theory took the gig, they probably didn't realize just how much of a hardcore fanbase DMC had. There's no way I'd want to take it on if I were a developer because of how complex the mechanics are. It's not like God of War (or Heavenly Sword) where you just casually button-mash and win.

I'm glad they're doing this, but I hope they aren't caught off-guard by some of the feedback they may receive and are able to actually able to put it to good use.
 
Dahbomb said:
My friend is as versed in DMC knowledge as I am. If he plans to go that is. I am going to sit on this for like a day or two and then decide how I want to play this.

I already saw telegraphed attacks in the game play video so that's not really a cause of concern at this point.



I always wanted frame data in DMC but I have never seen it myself. It would really help out the high level community especially stuff like the just frames on Nero's charges.


Is there any video in which you can hear auditory telegraphs? There was one that was gameplay oriented, but it was at TGS and it was like, fan-recorded and I couldn't hear shit except for background noise.
 

Vomiaouaf

Member
scitek said:
I think when Ninja Theory took the gig, they probably didn't realize just how much of a hardcore fanbase DMC had. There's no way I'd want to take it on if I were a developer because of how complex the mechanics are. It's not like God of War (or Heavenly Sword) where you just casually button-mash and win.

I'm glad they're doing this, but I hope they aren't caught off-guard by some of the feedback they may receive and are able to actually able to put it to good use.

I actually am one of the few who think that the chemistry between NJ and Capcom Japan could end up being a really interesting recipe. Capcom monitoring how they approach the combat system is always reassuring, and the franchise can definitely use deeper narrative mechanics (I finished DMC4 last week and story/character development/dialogue was as bland and cliche as it could get - Nero's simplistic/childish persona didn't really help...).

Fake edit: holy fuck at those competitive DMC4 videos. The only time where I achieved triple S ranking was a celebration, but they're just in another world.
 

danmaku

Member
That's the best news since DmC was announced. Hopefully the combat system will be decent at least. I wish Team Ninja Dog would do the same.
 

Raonak

Banned
subversus said:

Yeah, wtf indeed.

I swear that guy must have 14 fingers to be able to do that. beating dmd berial, while never touching the ground AND no damage!?

and I didn't even realise/think about jump cancelling the lucifer air attack.
 

Despera

Banned
Honesty is key here. But I'm more worried about what the devs are planning to do with the feedback.

Interesting move by NT. Now we'll just have to wait and see.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Raonak said:
Yeah, wtf indeed.

I swear that girl must have 14 fingers to be able to do that. beating dmd berial, while never touching the ground AND no damage!?

and I didn't even realise/think about jump cancelling the lucifer air attack.
Fixed for accuracy.
 
Dahbomb said:
E-mails just got sent out to "top DMC players" especially based in the UK area. Here's the e-mail:



One of my known DMC contacts received one as well and he's based in the UK. This probably went out to DMC players especially UK based who are basically known DMC veterans (trust me on this the guy who got this was pretty big into the DMC3 scene).

This is HUGE NEWS for DmC as it shows that they actually want feedback from top DMC players and it shows that the game is actually being fine tuned for high level DMC play. Some of the people who may receive the e-mail might not be able to go for the test (like myself) but others might and that's why I posted this thread.

So yeah.... good job to Ninja Theory on this. This is exactly the type of feedback that made DMC3 godlike which was feedback from top players. LHK would be proud although I don't even think he can go because he isn't UK based either.

Also someone please translate this page as well as it contains new DmC information:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201111/04005054.html




megaton_bomb.jpg


This. Changes. Everything.



Well actually, no it doesn't.

it actually seems quite the Marketing cynical ploy to state this for 3 reasons.

1) The DMC scene is not like a fighting game scene, its just random screennames uploading videos online. I very much doubt capcom has a list of emails lying around of all the best players in the same way they do with MVC et la.

2) leading on from that, NDA or no NDA rather than say "top level players" they should be telling us who they have invited and examples of their work. What tanneem calls top level play and what I call top level play is probably be much different.

3) I very very much doubt that there are many true style level players in the UK and even if they are, I dont think they have made their skills public enough for capcom and NT to know about them. It seems like a empty gesture because anyone who could give some real feedback doesn't live anywhere nearby. This isn't a simple aiming issue al la Uncharted 3. You really have to be shit hot to be any use with this.


Now, all that said, Hat's off to Ninja theory. The reason being that by pullling what may amount only to a simple marketing stunt, they have both raised awareness and interest for their game and forced Capcom to face the elephant in the room : The High level players of DMC. There is now no way Capcom can ever ignore them again and while I very much doubt they will get consideration the way tournament players do in fighting games there will have to be some kind of design descions in future DMC games just for this.

Not only that, but this game has just come back on alot of peoples radars, myself included, just to see how it will play out.

I really wish I was Good enough and able to go. Im only in london. I could be there within 2hours.


Dahbomb, I know you are the authority on this kind of shyt so If you vouch for your friend then I beleive in him too. But please please please please. Do one of your amazing anaylsises, write it down in a format he can edit and present and give it to him.

whats important about this, if it isn't just BS is that its not just about getting the feedback, its about communicating that feedback in a way that NT understands. As you have a background in game development ( I think you mentioned it before) you must know how easy your feedback can get lost in the ether because people didnt quite get what you were saying)


EDIT: HOLY FUCK...Brea Is going??????

And shame on anyone who doesn't know brea is a girl by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-EnJ2X0-2E

Sidenote: I still stand by this as one of the best, if not the best edited Dante DMC4 videos out there.

There are ones with better skills, but the way this one flows together is amazing.
 

sublimit

Banned
Doesn't NT has their own testing teams?I'm sure the handful of people who'll get to test the game won't be allowed to say anything publicly while NT will be using this as a PR stunt saying how "all the hardcore players loved the game and that they thought it's the best DMC ever. "
But regardless this is very clever PR i'll give that to them.


Seriously if they really want to hear what players think of their game they should just release a public demo.But judging from the demos of their previous games they might be too much afraid to do it again.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Dahbomb said:
E-mails just got sent out to "top DMC players" especially based in the UK area. Here's the e-mail:



One of my known DMC contacts received one as well and he's based in the UK. This probably went out to DMC players especially UK based who are basically known DMC veterans (trust me on this the guy who got this was pretty big into the DMC3 scene).

Saur?
 
Has anyone posted this on phantom babies yet?

danmaku said:
I mean asking top players their opinion about the combat engine.


Based On what I played, I't wouldn't be worth it unless they are willing to scrap almost everything they have done and start from scratch.

And I'm someone that struggled with Master Ninja in the sigma games.

actually scratch that:- Combat in NG3 is fine, outside of SOB and more lenient inputs. Its everything else which is a problem.
 

V_Arnold

Member
sublimit said:
Doesn't NT has their own testing teams?I'm sure the handful of people who'll get to test the game won't be allowed to say anything publicly while NT will be using this as a PR stunt saying how "all the hardcore players loved the game and that they thought it's the best DMC ever. "
But regardless this is very clever PR i'll give that to them.


Seriously if they really want to hear what players think of their game they should just release a public demo.But judging from the demos of their previous games they might be too much afraid to do it again.

...uhm, no, as that would be a very easily refutable claim to make.
This is for feedback purposes, I think. They will not lie about how all players loved it, but they will be able to say "we got their invaluable feedback and are now adjusting the combat system based on those remarks". Even if the changes are slight and will not change the bigger picture in that people will still be able to pile up on this game cause of UE3, 30fps, "meth addict (lol) Dante", etc.

If only Amir0x were invited, he could tell these bastards face to face to get off his lawn and stop making bullcrap games forever! That would teach them a lesson! :D
 

Amir0x

Banned
I'm not a top DMC player though, even though I'm quite good at the games I'd never even touch Brea or even Dahbomb most likely. Plus I don't live in the UK.

They wouldn't want my feedback, though. I'd be stuck from the get go on the embarrassing 30fps, which automatically restricts the combat system from true greatness. They'd never get past that fact with me. "But what about the combo cancel--" "60fps?" "No." "Welp fuck it then."

I hope they genuinely take the feedback of these players to heart, but I hope this isn't one of the "woo the fanbase so they start saying positive things about the game" ploys, and I hope these fans who go aren't gullible enough to fall for it.
 

Tizoc

Member
Well if this doesn't end up being a good DMC game, it may end up being a good/decent action game right?
 
Wow I had no idea Ben Judd was involved in helping tweak the final product of DMC3.

Definitely going to have to talk to him about it next time I see him!

And yeah the DMC scene is insane. You guys pull of some absolutely amazing stuff and I really do hope that NT takes any feedback to heart.
 

Shtof

Member
scitek said:
I think when Ninja Theory took the gig, they probably didn't realize just how much of a hardcore fanbase DMC had. There's no way I'd want to take it on if I were a developer because of how complex the mechanics are. It's not like God of War (or Heavenly Sword) where you just casually button-mash and win.

I'm glad they're doing this, but I hope they aren't caught off-guard by some of the feedback they may receive and are able to actually able to put it to good use.
Hey, God of War may not be up there with DMC, NG and Bayonetta, but it's certainly next on the list and can't really be compared to Heavenly Sword. It actually has a small 'scene' of players doing NUR(no upgrade runs).
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
after watching these videos I know why people were pissed off. Imagine playing Quake 1 at 20 fps and aiming made for gamepad.
 
Dahbomb said:
E-mails just got sent out to "top DMC players" especially based in the UK area. Here's the e-mail:



One of my known DMC contacts received one as well and he's based in the UK. This probably went out to DMC players especially UK based who are basically known DMC veterans (trust me on this the guy who got this was pretty big into the DMC3 scene).

This is HUGE NEWS for DmC as it shows that they actually want feedback from top DMC players and it shows that the game is actually being fine tuned for high level DMC play. Some of the people who may receive the e-mail might not be able to go for the test (like myself) but others might and that's why I posted this thread.

So yeah.... good job to Ninja Theory on this. This is exactly the type of feedback that made DMC3 godlike which was feedback from top players. LHK would be proud although I don't even think he can go because he isn't UK based either.

Also someone please translate this page as well as it contains new DmC information:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201111/04005054.html

Chances of DmC not totally sucking and destroying NG3: 90%.

I'm still sceptical though about the real impact of this, but it's a good step in the right direction.

scitek said:
I think when Ninja Theory took the gig, they probably didn't realize just how much of a hardcore fanbase DMC had. There's no way I'd want to take it on if I were a developer because of how complex the mechanics are. It's not like God of War (or Heavenly Sword) where you just casually button-mash and win.

I'm glad they're doing this, but I hope they aren't caught off-guard by some of the feedback they may receive and are able to actually able to put it to good use.

I think brought NT into this not because their combat system knowledge (actually that's what they said), they want to catter the GOW (God of War) crowd, and you don't need the same expertise that DMC team or Kamiya team has, but probably because of all the backslash they have to go back and start teaching NT some of the basic stuff so they can at least somehow no dissapoint to hardcore fans.

Or maybe NT were guillible enough to think they could re-create a DMC combat system making it both to cater larger crowds and fans.
 

gunbo13

Member
subversus said:
after watching these videos I know why people were pissed off. Imagine playing Quake 1 at 20 fps and aiming made for gamepad.
It's pretty much impossible at 25-30fps. I would say DMC4 is a bit more forgiving with some of its input windows leaving the speed more up to the player; resulting in such bad-assery tempo. It also has more of a free-flow feel and JC windows feel meatier. But DMC3 is absolutely merciless when it comes to input windows. You either finish the input in that fraction of a second or look like a complete ass.
 
It's going to be a blood bath.

I hope this players go with a non biased opinion of the game, if it's good then say it, if it's shit, say it. Shame that the will be under NDA.
 
gunbo13 said:
But DMC3 is absolutely merciless when it comes to input windows. You either finish the input in that fraction of a second or look like a complete ass.
Ultimate Tempest, Stinger->Wildstomp or even Rainstorm... oh god the pain

IMHO though, JCing in DMC3 felt more satisfying for me. Vergil Raves felt so great in DMC3 but they didn't feel like anything in DMC4.
 
gunbo13 said:
It's pretty much impossible at 25-30fps. I would say DMC4 is a bit more forgiving with some of its input windows leaving the speed more up to the player; resulting in such bad-assery tempo. It also has more of a free-flow feel and JC windows feel meatier. But DMC3 is absolutely merciless when it comes to input windows. You either finish the input in that fraction of a second or look like a complete ass.
Yes and no. Some DMC4 moves are definitely easier to pull off, but it also has a lot more just-frame stuff than DMC3's got, IMO.
 

Dahbomb

Member
2) leading on from that, NDA or no NDA rather than say "top level players" they should be telling us who they have invited and examples of their work. What tanneem calls top level play and what I call top level play is probably be much different.

3) I very very much doubt that there are many true style level players in the UK and even if they are, I dont think they have made their skills public enough for capcom and NT to know about them. It seems like a empty gesture because anyone who could give some real feedback doesn't live anywhere nearby. This isn't a simple aiming issue al la Uncharted 3. You really have to be shit hot to be any use with this.
The ones that I know who are going are definitely "top" or known players. So yeah NT is picking them right at the very least. And they are from UK too so yeah... quesion #2 and #3 are sort of invalid.

Top DMC players are all over ranging from US, UK, Europe, Singapore, Japan, China even South Asia where I am from.
 
Godamnnit. These people are going to ruin this game. I thought NT was going to be able to revamp this series, not make another "for hardcore only" mega frame counting ultra combo game. I was actually looking forward to this game before this story.

Now I know we are just going to get another game that plays like the others. I enjoyed DMC 4 but I already finished it. I don't want to play another"
 
EternalGamer said:
Godamnnit. These people are going to ruin this game. I thought NT was going to be able to revamp this series, not make another "for hardcore only" mega frame counting ultra combo game. I was actually looking forward to this game before this story.

Now I know we are just going to get another game that plays like the others. I enjoyed DMC 4 but I already finished it. I don't want to play another"
I rate this troll 4/10.
 

Dahbomb

Member
But DmC already IS a poor mimicry of DMC4.

And DMC was never for hardcore only. You could play through DMC4 with below average skills and even beat DMD mode. The difference is that the skill cap is insanely high for how far you can go in the game execution wise. NT just wants to reach that skill cap or get as close as they can.

I guess some people really WANT QTE/button masher easy mode action games.
 
badcrumble said:
I rate this troll 4/10.
It is not a trol. I am 100% serious. I know many of you want that style of game again. I was looking forward to a game more like what Ninja Theory does--a more Naughty Dog like cinematic presentation, not a fighting game in disguise.
 
EternalGamer said:
Now I know we are just going to get another game that plays like the others. I enjoyed DMC 4 but I already finished it. I don't want to play another"

This won't play like the others. This gesture is most likely made in good faith, I very much doubt Ninja Theory will drastically change anything if the fans find it's not to their liking.
 

Chiave

Member
EternalGamer said:
Godamnnit. These people are going to ruin this game. I thought NT was going to be able to revamp this series, not make another "for hardcore only" mega frame counting ultra combo game. I was actually looking forward to this game before this story.

Now I know we are just going to get another game that plays like the others. I enjoyed DMC 4 but I already finished it. I don't want to play another"
I can't believe you admitted to wanting a shittier game.
 
Dahbomb said:
But DmC already IS a poor mimicry of DMC4.

And DMC was never for hardcore only. You could play through DMC4 with below average skills and even beat DMD mode. The difference is that the skill cap is insanely high for how far you can go in the game execution wise. NT just wants to reach that skill cap or get as close as they can.

I guess some people really WANT QTE/button masher easy mode action games.
Dark Souls is probably my favorite game this generation.

But what I don't like is caffeine induced twitch gaming. I hate the whole idea of infinite juggles and combo counters. Give me combat and scenarios that are interesting, not just something that is fun because "my numbers I' racking up are awesome!"
 

Carbonox

Member
Any updates on the translation of that Famitsu information?

Also, how does Ninja Theory even determine what a top DMC player is and how did they know of them? :lol
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
This won't play like the others. This gesture is most likely made in good faith, I very much doubt Ninja Theory will drastically change anything if the fans find it's not to their liking.
I hope so. I actually like their style of games. I liked the interesting mix of long range and short range combat in Enslaved. To me it was way more interesting than "get a BIG combo!!!". Did it require as much skill? No, but it was unique enough and challenging enough to engage me. I don't play competitive games. I don't really care whether a game lets me show off "mad skills."

I understand I am not a hardcore DMC player. I played the series casually, beat DMC 1 and DMC 4. I like the world and characters and enjoyed the juggle system alright. I just don't need another game that does that exact thing.

And before anyone says anything about other sequels, I feel the same way about many of them. I played through every Halo sequel waiting for them to actually do something interesting again. I like sequels that change up the formula like Metal Gear 4, Final Fantasy 12, Resident Evil 4, Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Metriod Prime, etc.

I was excited about this project because I thought NT would do something NEW with the series, not just try to make another game like all the others. Undoubtly, a game like the others is what the hardcore want.
 

Dahbomb

Member
EternalGamer said:
Dark Souls is probably my favorite game this generation.

But what I don't like is caffeine induced twitch gaming. I hate the whole idea of infinite juggles and combo counters. Give me combat and scenarios that are interesting, not just something that is fun because "my numbers I' racking up are awesome!"
Infinite juggles and combo counters have been the cornerstone of DMC since the FIRST game. It invented the "stylish hardcore action" genre in fact that was the PR line for DMC1. You take that away then it's basically not a DMC game anymore. The sub system of not just killing your opponents but doing so in style is basically what keeps people coming back to DMC.

Even in their demonstration of the game, it's functionally a DMC game. You have to kill enemies in style and you can juggle them pretty much indefinitely in the air with a lowered skill cap (like you just press buttons and float forever).
 
Dahbomb said:
Infinite juggles and combo counters have been the cornerstone of DMC since the FIRST game. It invented the "stylish hardcore action" genre in fact that was the PR line for DMC1. You take that away then it's basically not a DMC game anymore. The sub system of not just killing your opponents but doing so in style is basically what keeps people coming back to DMC.

Even in their demonstration of the game, it's functionally a DMC game. You have to kill enemies in style and you can juggle them pretty much indefinitely in the air with a lowered skill cap (like you just press buttons and float forever).
I know. And they did that for four games. I thought NT would be an opportunity to do something NEW the way those sequels I listed above did.

Juggling guys and doing air combos, throwing guys to the ground to boost further in the air and keep a combo going was fun.

I overstated when I said I totally don't like juggle/combo based gameplay. I should have just said I like it less than other gameplay styles. I may not have been great at DMC, but I played DMC 4 enough to SSS rank many of the stages and at least S rank most of them. But I already DID that. A new dev and a franchise reboot should be a chance to do something new, not do the same thing all over again.
 

Kayo-kun

Member
EternalGamer said:
It is not a trol. I am 100% serious. I know many of you want that style of game again. I was looking forward to a game more like what Ninja Theory does--a more Naughty Dog like cinematic presentation, not a fighting game in disguise.

You're definately trolling, atleast I hope so.

Still, I'll take the bait. Seems like you don't like the core of the DMC franchise which have been going on for 4 games now, which I assume from what you've expressed. It seems like you want a complete new title with the DMC name tacked on. If that is the case, you better off playing another game since DMC without the in-depth combat gameplay is like Uncharted without the cinematics. You make a very poor reasoning in my opinion.
 

Dahbomb

Member
All those games you listed still have the same basic core game play.

If you want a completely different game play from DMC... then play a different game.Some of the people that are still here are giving this game a chance is because it has the DMC name on it. Without it the game is meaningless to most. There are numerous other action/adventure games out there with different takes on combat (Godhand, NG, God of War, Darksiders, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Dante's Inferno, Castlevania etc.).
 

vg260

Member
Someone needs to accept the invite, go in, ask them to their face if it's still gonna run at 30fps. When they say yes, turn around and walk out.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
Well I'll give them my phone number then.
 
Dahbomb said:
All those games you listed still have the same basic core game play.
this is definitely not the case. Especially with games like Metriod Prime, RE4 and FF12.

If you want a completely different game play from DMC... then play a different game.Some of the people that are still here are giving this game a chance is because it has the DMC name on it. Without it the game is meaningless to most. There are numerous other action/adventure games out there with different takes on combat (Godhand, NG, God of War, Darksiders, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Dante's Inferno, Castlevania etc.).
Well, I probably will. Like I said, new dev and franchise reboot were the reasons I was interested. I was hoping it would just play exactly like the earlier games.

I don't really begrudge you guys your hardcore fighting game like mechanics (though I do wonder why you want the same thing again and again). It is isn't for me. I also fear it is no longer for a mainstream audience and by trying to stick too close to what you guys want, the series will shrink its audience, not expand it.

Incidentally, of the games you mentioned most of them are also heavily combo driven. There are few third person combat games that aren't. That is one of the reasons I love Dark Souls so much (90 hours in, at level 95). No other game (except Demon Souls) plays like it. I would say the same of Enslaved. I liked it because the mix of long and short range (often in the same battle) and the color coded fights made it unique. Most action games are just trying to be God of War.
 
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