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DmC developers at Ninja Theory inviting Top DMC players to test game

gunbo13

Member
subversus said:
The Hot Pursuit devs did the same. Physics and input were running at 60 fps while the game at 30 fps.
We are aware but the combat system of DMC makes it a different ballgame entirely.
Salih said:
So... Kamiya is also invited?
Nah, it's going to be the "Feel of Kamiya."
 

gunbo13

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
The morning after conversation?
Nah, I always eat breakfast with Kamiya and Mikami. I was the one who recommended to Mikami that he tell the RE5 team to make the title more action oriented. I also told Kamiya to add QTE based on GoW success. I think things have worked out well.
 

gunbo13

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I don't want to sound elitist but I feel that the majority of my enjoyment of the DMC combo scene is my elementary understanding how amazingly difficult it is to do these combos.
Which is why we will try to communicate this understanding with the OT. It will be tough but we'll do our best.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
But that said, I see nothing wrong with dumbing down the combat a little for people who couldn't dream to enter the DMC Scene before (I sheepishly include myself in this group) AS LONG AS, There is sufficent depth to the combat that there is a clear tangible disparity from what someone like brea can do and what I can do.
Bayonetta is a good reference for this. Everyone could pull off cool stuff from novice to experts. But IMO Bayo did not go far enough and yes I've seen all the combo videos. You can't have everything though and it is the only title to date that has covered such range despite its shortcomings.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Now I just can't see that happening at 30FPS. Its either or. Im glad that people will be able to perform Godlike combos now that they couldn't before but if you remove the reason they were god-like in the first place, It might as well just be another GOW clone.
True enough, though I like GoW. ;) You really do lose a lot when you tone down the combat system.
 
I'd imagine we'll see some PR and Developer interviews after this, saying that the Veterans 'loved' the game and that our doubts were completely unfounded.

It seems dodgy to me. Like when the Journos were invited by Konami to an elaborate MGS4 review event and were told what not to write about in their reviews.
 

Trojan X

Banned
Dahbomb said:
E-mails just got sent out to "top DMC players" especially based in the UK area. Here's the e-mail:



One of my known DMC contacts received one as well and he's based in the UK. This probably went out to DMC players especially UK based who are basically known DMC veterans (trust me on this the guy who got this was pretty big into the DMC3 scene).

This is HUGE NEWS for DmC as it shows that they actually want feedback from top DMC players and it shows that the game is actually being fine tuned for high level DMC play. Some of the people who may receive the e-mail might not be able to go for the test (like myself) but others might and that's why I posted this thread.

So yeah.... good job to Ninja Theory on this. This is exactly the type of feedback that made DMC3 godlike which was feedback from top players. LHK would be proud although I don't even think he can go because he isn't UK based either.

Also someone please translate this page as well as it contains new DmC information:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201111/04005054.html


Maybe we got the same friend? ;)
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Didn't Kamiya say that he doesn't care about dmc5 as well as 4, 3 and 2 Dante as he isn't the one that he envisioned in original?

So what are these Kamiya jabs? He doesn't give a fuck since dmc was taken from him.
 
RedSwirl said:
How many other games do this other than fighters?


As far as 3rd person action games go - I think DMC is probably the "street fighter" in that genre. In which you have a hardcore group of fans who put out high level content and technology that stems downward to majority of DMC fans - who are probably at the intermediate level.

If they have responsive inputs and deliver the promise of "60 fps" feel - than a lot of the combos that 95% of DMC fans pull off, should be repeatable in DmC. That is to say the intermediate stuff. The problem is the advanced stuff is going to be a lot harder, however I imagine they'll just artificially open up the viable frames to pull that stuff out, compensating for it being at 30 fps.

EDIT:

Also, DMC3 > Bayonetta. I could care to go and explain why, but maybe for another time.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
Dahbomb said:
They are willing to pay for train expenses. They seem eager about it.

When you consider that if this bombs or alienates the whole fan base, and a very poor reception, you can wish this studio bye bye! Spending some money to get a crowd on some of the best DMC players out there is a damn good thing to do, when you want to make sure that the combat and game lives up to expectations. Me personally, I think they are going to nail it and this will help a lot towards it. I'm very confident with them, especially this is their second outing on the unreal engine and their third game now.
 

AAK

Member
I don't really understand this 60fps input thing.

Let's take for example, we have Street Fighter. Let's say that a shoryuken is 8 frames to initiate the hitbox . And let's say your opponent hits you with a move and you are at -8 frames. So technically, the Shoryuken should be able to punish that opponent. But if there is a 60 fps input thing then it must be:

1st Frame: f
2nd Frame: d
3rd Frame: d/f
4rth Frame: Punch (animations Starts)
5th-12th Frame: Animation Hits.

So then the Shoryuken is really 12 frames rather than 8 or do all those frame data take the input into consideration?

Back on topic, I'm happy about this news and I might give DmC a shot.
 

gunbo13

Member
lowhighkang_LHK said:
Also, DMC3 > Bayonetta. I could care to go and explain why, but maybe for another time.
Agreed but I've already beaten that one to death in other threads. ;)
AAK said:
I don't really understand this 60fps input thing.
If the engine polls inputs with the frame-rate, then there are simply less input opportunities per second. If you up the polling rate with a 30fps engine on 60fps animation, you can execute inputs "blindly." It's sort of like playing DMC4 @ 30fps but filling in the blanks. The problem is that hit confirms are visual and you need an engine capable of rendering the animations fast enough. Otherwise, you will get extremely janky frame-rates leading to blind inputs on combos and even dropped frames on hit confirms.

No DMC player can play blind on inputs. So you basically just have to slow everything down. This leaves larger input windows to slower animations with 60fps polling on 30fps animations. You can then see hit confirms but everything animates at half the speed.

EDIT:
It's hard to explain. The easiest way is to try to play a DMC game @ 30fps. ;)
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
AAK said:
I don't really understand this 60fps input thing.

Let's take for example, we have Street Fighter. Let's say that a shoryuken is 8 frames to initiate the hitbox . And let's say your opponent hits you with a move and you are at -8 frames. So technically, the Shoryuken should be able to punish that opponent. But if there is a 60 fps input thing then it must be:

1st Frame: f
2nd Frame: d
3rd Frame: d/f
4rth Frame: Punch (animations Starts)
5th-12th Frame: Animation Hits.

So then the Shoryuken is really 12 frames rather than 8 or do all those frame data take the input into consideration?

Back on topic, I'm happy about this news and I might give DmC a shot.


30fps vs 60fps doesn't change the properties of moves. It changes your ability to react or time button presses based on what you see. You're just missing half the frames of what you see, so it's visibly harder to do things. This is assuming that the game is locked at a perfect 30fps, of course.

I'd wait until getting some impressions before jumping on the bandwagon, myself.
 
Dahbomb said:
They are willing to pay for train expenses. They seem eager about it.

Or they're paying for train expenses to make a player feel guilty about trying to say the game sucks. Like I said, this entire gesture is made in good faith to try to restore faith in the game. DmC: They Live edition is going to bomba no matter how hard they try.

Ninja Theory :: We would like DmC top players to test this turd of a game.
Player :: (The game is a turd...completely turd...but...they paid all expenses for me to come here...and I got to test a game. Snap.) It could use a little work. Great game though
-6 months later-
Ninja Theory :: Top DmC players have confirmed this game is good. We are now safe to say this is a true DmC Title! The game has gone gold!
Capcom :: Wow! Ninja Theory now handles all future Devil may Cry titles!

If you get called to duty, don't be afraid to say the game sucks. Tell them how it sucks, why it sucks, and why they're too incompetent to fix it. "This game does not feel 60fps. It's unplayable compared to the NT engine. Make it 60fps" is a valid criticism. They'll ignore you, but at least they'll know they're too incompetent to fix a very valid issue, if even their most diehard fans are against it.
 

gunbo13

Member
GuardianE said:
30fps vs 60fps doesn't change the properties of moves. It changes your ability to react or time button presses based on what you see. You're just missing half the frames of what you see, so it's visibly harder to do things. This is assuming that the game is locked at a perfect 30fps, of course.

I'd wait until getting some impressions before jumping on the bandwagon, myself.
Yea, that's a bit more succinct. I'll just reaffirm that you can poll at a 60fps rate but at 30fps, you are polling more then the frame-rate. Therefore, that is what I would refer to as blind polling if you apply a 60fps animation and drop frames. So you don't do this and use animations built for 30fps. That only means however, that you can have better input recognition on slower animations. That's also known as larger input windows hence lower difficulty.
 

Dahbomb

Member
The people who are going to go aren't going to sugar coat even if they are given the red carpet treatment. Trust me, whoever goes I am going to give them a list of stuff to directly convey to NT before even approaching the game as well as what stuff to test.

Even if they place these people under NDA, their thoughts/impressions will get out and we'll know when NT puts out the PR bandwagon that they are lying or not (saying the DMC fans loved it when they didn't etc.).

I really don't see why people are twisting this into a bad thing, this is probably one of the best steps they have taken with this game. Now it's just hating for the sake of hating.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Dahbomb said:
The people who are going to go aren't going to sugar coat even if they are given the red carpet treatment. Trust me, whoever goes I am going to give them a list of stuff to directly convey to NT before even approaching the game as well as what stuff to test.

Even if they place these people under NDA, their thoughts/impressions will get out and we'll know when NT puts out the PR bandwagon that they are lying or not (saying the DMC fans loved it when they didn't etc.).

I really don't see why people are twisting this into a bad thing, this is probably one of the best steps they have taken with this game. Now it's just hating for the sake of hating.
No, Hating for just Hating would say would be impossible for them to improve.

The only thing that is happening are people are hestitant to believe this will do anything major, and frankly showing Ninja Theory the same amount of respect they showed us.

The one douche said he didn't give a shit what we thought, sorry Dahbomb but I'm not suddenly going to give them the benefit of the doubt just for something that could easily be a PR grab.
 
Nora Kisaragi said:
Or they're paying for train expenses to make a player feel guilty about trying to say the game sucks. Like I said, this entire gesture is made in good faith to try to restore faith in the game. DmC: They Live edition is going to bomba no matter how hard they try.

Ninja Theory :: We would like DmC top players to test this turd of a game.
Player :: (The game is a turd...completely turd...but...they paid all expenses for me to come here...and I got to test a game. Snap.) It could use a little work. Great game though
-6 months later-
Ninja Theory :: Top DmC players have confirmed this game is good. We are now safe to say this is a true DmC Title! The game has gone gold!
Capcom :: Wow! Ninja Theory now handles all future Devil may Cry titles!

If you get called to duty, don't be afraid to say the game sucks. Tell them how it sucks, why it sucks, and why they're too incompetent to fix it. "This game does not feel 60fps. It's unplayable compared to the NT engine. Make it 60fps" is a valid criticism. They'll ignore you, but at least they'll know they're too incompetent to fix a very valid issue, if even their most diehard fans are against it.

train expenses aren't that expensive. Its hardly life or death.

Besides British people are far less polite than the common perception. I personally think a British guy is more likely to tell a Dev thats something is shit to his face than an American.

That said, anyone who does go should go with open eyes and not expect the world to be changed. If they can at least tweak it based on the feedback then their will at least something salvageable from the game.
 
I still need to get around to replaying the earlier DMC's since I didn't start really 'getting' the genre until Bayonetta, but I'm not really sure just how much can be changed if it's still at 30fps. I'm incredibly casual but I couldn't imagine being able to really register what was happening on screen for something as fastpaced as those action-fighting games at even a small drop like 50fps, let alone 30, unless they slow it down to the point where it may as well be considered a different kind of game.

Kudos to NT for making changes to the product over time instead of standing by their "I don't care~" *blows smoke from a ciggeratte* stance they had earlier, I guess. Still not conovinced giving a franchise like this to a western dev is the answer to making it more 'accessible' (that was the reasoning Capcom gave, right?) to a wider audience.

Has to at least turn out better than Sonic 4's developer/fan feedback thing where it was just a room of 20/30 year old somethings making snide comments to each other for an hour.
 
yurinka said:
Where do they find "top DMC players"? It isn't a fighter, there aren't tournaments to play it.

http://devils-lair.org/tourney.php


http://www.phantombabies.net/TST4/

The "host" Of the original TST is Dahbombs contact and will be one of the people going.......

narcosis219 said:
What are these mvc3 combo videos doing in this thread

Dante is actually netured in MVC3


If you want to see what vergil, Dante and nero should be able to do in a fighting game

watch this...

Dante & Vergil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvK_E1HKvfQ

Vergil & nero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R046GdV8opM

MVC3 is getting off easy.
 

mandas

Neo Member
Is this for real? Ninja Theory has not confirmed or tweeted about it have they and Capcom employees on CU are not sure it is real. Could it be someone playing a hoax on the well known players and just trying to rile the community?

People on the Ninja Theory forums are asking about this but so far no response.

Can the major problems really be fixed at this point? Ninja Theory tweeted this game is coming out in 2012 and they are looking to start a new game in a couple of months and they don't like to work on more than one at at time.
 

Dahbomb

Member
yurinka said:
Where do they find "top DMC players"? It isn't a fighter, it isn't played in tournaments.
Just a quick search on youtube and you will find the top DMC players. Contact is through e-mail as of now. There are sites dedicated to the True Style Tournament where one can get in touch.

Also DMC4 leaderboards would be a place to check as well although that's not really a gauge of skill.


Is this for real? Ninja Theory has not confirmed or tweeted about it have they and Capcom employees on CU are not sure it is real. Could it be someone playing a hoax on the well known players and just trying to rile the community?
NT mods debunk stuff REALLY fast if they need to.

And if this is a hoax... it's a damn elaborate one. You see the OT? Look closely I have actually X'd out the name of the guy who sent the e-mail. In the real e-mail he put his actual name in and I know who at NT it is.

WOW that Mugen Vergil was beastly.
 
Dahbomb said:
WOW that Mugen Nero was pretty good.

I think all three are amazing, so so far removed of the billions of pallete swap evil ryus of 5 years ago.

shame some of these guys can't come together and an create a unified release around a central theme.

stilll Card saga wars will be released......one day.
 

Riposte

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I think all three are amazing, so so far removed of the billions of pallete swap evil ryus of 5 years ago.

shame some of these guys can't come together and an create a unified release around a central theme.

stilll Card saga wars will be released......one day.

The chances of this game being any good is extremely low.
 
that's what i'm hoping doesn't happen.

the wine and dine (with british women!).

i think a gamer who is that hardcore can still make effective judgement without being too harsh.

i'd love to be a gameplay consultant for action games, but i'm a shitter onner.
 
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