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Dreams-Visions · Feb 28, 2012

Epix said:
I like Zeus but I hate how short his auto-attack range is. I can't count how many times I've gotten nuked trying to move him back out of harms way only for him to go running back into the fray to get within is 2ft auto-attack range.

EDIT: Fuck, I think i just found the auto-attack setting. Mind blown.

only thing I hate about Zeus is his regular attack animation. depending on who I'm laning against, it becomes impossible to deny or last-hit.

I had to lane mid against a Bloodseeker earlier this evening and I couldn't do a goddamn thing to stop him from getting all the farm he wanted. Zeus' animation was always a dollar short and a day late, and using skills against him was just a waste of my mana. He'd get all damage back with that passive regen of his on every kill. It was like I was simply being given a lesson on who NOT to lane against. A front-row seat on how to deny someone with him when I finally try him for the first time. It was the frst time I've ever had that issue. Next time I see it, i'll simply swap with someone.

...and for future reference, how DOES one lane 1v1 against bloodseeker at the beginning of a game if has his passive heal going? Will you inevitably fail unless you have a character with a faster attack to deny and last-hit like AM? Because all the spells in the world wouldn't have kept Zeus from letting Bloodseeker have all the farm he wanted.

1.09 · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
only thing I hate about Zeus is his regular attack animation. depending on who I'm laning against, it becomes impossible to deny or last-hit.

I had to lane mid against a Bloodseeker earlier this evening and I couldn't do a goddamn thing to stop him from getting all the farm he wanted. Zeus' animation was always a dollar short and a day late, and using skills against him was just a waste of my mana. He'd get all damage back with that passive regen of his on every kill. It was like I was simply being given a lesson on who NOT to lane against. A front-row seat on how to deny someone with him when I finally try him for the first time. It was the frst time I've ever had that issue. Next time I see it, i'll simply swap with someone.

...and for future reference, how DOES one lane 1v1 against bloodseeker at the beginning of a game if has his passive heal going? Will you inevitably fail unless you have a character with a faster attack to deny and last-hit like AM? Because all the spells in the world wouldn't have kept Zeus from letting Bloodseeker have all the farm he wanted.

Harass him out of the lane. EZ.

Rinku · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
...and for future reference, how DOES one lane 1v1 against bloodseeker at the beginning of a game if has his passive heal going? Will you inevitably fail unless you have a character with a faster attack to deny and last-hit like AM? Because all the spells in the world wouldn't have kept Zeus from letting Bloodseeker have all the farm he wanted.

As Zeus against BS, you will use your chain lightning to last hit for the most part. Denying will be harder but you SHOULD be able to last hit the enemy creeps with chain lightning. This makes sure you level properly against him, and just nuke him hard. He will be too afraid to get back into the creep wave.

In fact, nuking heroes like Zeus, QoP, SF, can fight against BS.

Dreams-Visions · Feb 28, 2012

1.09 said:
Harass him out of the lane. EZ.

Were it only so simple, my friend. Maybe you haven't laned mid with Zeus vs. BS who levels up his healing on kills first.

Rinku said:
As Zeus against BS, you will use your chain lightning to last hit for the most part. Denying will be harder but you SHOULD be able to last hit the enemy creeps with chain lightning. This makes sure you level properly against him, and just nuke him hard. He will be too afraid to get back into the creep wave.

In fact, nuking heroes like Zeus, QoP, SF, can fight against BS.

So here's the thing: I could chain lightning some of my last-hits, but not all. It's not a cheap spell and mana is at a premium at the beginning of the game with Zeus. You can do about 5 chain lightnings before you run out of mana initially and clarity takes forever to recharge mana. that'll get you though maybe 5 or 6 last hits in the first 4 waves. But all the rest of those last-hits you couldn't get? Bloodseeker is denying them and getting health for the denys AND xp. and he's getting his own last hits because you can't deny them with Zeus' regular attacks.

And again, harassing with chain lightning and the lightning strike are a waste of mana because he gets the health back in 3 or 4 last-hits, which are easy as pie against slow-animation Zeus.

I agree that eventually, he can be nuked. But in that laning situation, by the time Zeus hits level 6, BS is closing in on level 8 due to all the successful last-hits and denies. Oh, and Zeus basically got no meaningful farm out of the first 7 minutes of the game, so it's not like he's a threat to solo kill BS at that point either. Maybe you'd have to see it to get a really clear idea of what I'm talking about, that heal neutralizes any harass Zeus has between level 1-6. Zeus can't kill him before level 6 even if he wanted to. Only thing I can see slowing Bloodseeker farm against Zeus is a gank. A couple of them.

Loam · Feb 28, 2012

carbonbased said:
in what world is tiny good for beginners?

When I picked up Dota2 I found him to be the easiest character to play (more so than Skeleton King actually).

He has a stun that's capable of hitting multiple units that also deals a good chunk of damage, a passive that returns damage dealt to him, and an ult that improves his base damage/toss/movement speed. Its also incredibly easy to last hit with him once he levels a bit, and he becomes a farming machine once you get scepter (not that you should stealing farm with him).

The only difficult thing about playing Tiny in my opinion is not accidentally throwing your squishy teammates into a group of enemy heroes.

1.09 · Feb 28, 2012

Wren said:
When I picked up Dota2 I found him to be the easiest character to play (more so than Skeleton King actually).

He has a stun that's capable of hitting multiple units that also deals a good chunk of damage, a passive that returns damage dealt to him, and an ult that improves his base damage/toss/movement speed. Its also incredibly easy to last hit with him once he levels a bit, and he becomes a farming machine once you get scepter (not that you should stealing farm with him).

The only difficult thing about playing Tiny in my opinion is not accidentally throwing your squishy teammates into a group of enemy heroes.

positioning yourself so you can get a shot at the squishy supports
Being able to blink into the right places to get ganks off
Ganking during the laning phase (because solo mid or bust)
Being balling enough to buy scepter

Conceptor · Feb 28, 2012

/nominate Sanjay

Procarbine · Feb 28, 2012

http://www.twitch.tv/procarbine is live with hopefully no lag and high tier tryhard sadness matchmaking.

Tenck · Feb 28, 2012

Just played a game as sniper and went 1v4 rofl.

Here's the outcome

Artanisix · Feb 28, 2012

Why I hate doing anything other than full group MM: Inevitably, the solo queuer will choose a carry without talking to us at all, forcing us to babysit him. He will then proceed to get the most retarded possible items and throw the game.

And Tenck, KEEP ON TRUCKIN' WITH US SNIPER PLAYERS

Togglesworlh · Feb 28, 2012

Artanisix said:
Why I hate doing anything other than full group MM: Inevitably, the solo queuer will choose a carry without talking to us at all, forcing us to babysit him. He will then proceed to get the most retarded possible items and throw the game.

It's even better when you get that solo queuer who waits until everyone has already picked, and you really need another support, and he goes carry a minute into the game, and his excuse is "I had [insert carry] selected first, [insert derogatory epithet]."

dorkimoe · Feb 28, 2012

Nominate Sanjay and swag.

Sanjay is on the most at least from what I see. And he's not a douche.

Rinku · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
So here's the thing: I could chain lightning some of my last-hits, but not all. It's not a cheap spell and mana is at a premium at the beginning of the game with Zeus. You can do about 5 chain lightnings before you run out of mana initially and clarity takes forever to recharge mana. that'll get you though maybe 5 or 6 last hits in the first 4 waves. But all the rest of those last-hits you couldn't get? Bloodseeker is denying them and getting health for the denys AND xp. and he's getting his own last hits because you can't deny them with Zeus' regular attacks.

And again, harassing with chain lightning and the lightning strike are a waste of mana because he gets the health back in 3 or 4 last-hits, which are easy as pie against slow-animation Zeus.

I agree that eventually, he can be nuked. But in that laning situation, by the time Zeus hits level 6, BS is closing in on level 8 due to all the successful last-hits and denies. Oh, and Zeus basically got no meaningful farm out of the first 7 minutes of the game, so it's not like he's a threat to solo kill BS at that point either. Maybe you'd have to see it to get a really clear idea of what I'm talking about, that heal neutralizes any harass Zeus has between level 1-6. Zeus can't kill him before level 6 even if he wanted to. Only thing I can see slowing Bloodseeker farm against Zeus is a gank. A couple of them.

I can understand your frustration, but I still stand on my argument. Use a clarity as soon as you use one or two chain lightning, that way you will not have to wait to use it again. Grab a bottle, arcane, whatever necessary to keep spamming. Make him pay for having to come and try to get that last creep kill. And if he does, you can always right click on him to drag the creeps to you, make the ranged creep attack you, and have him miscalculate the last hit, from there which you can deny.

Dreams-Visions · Feb 28, 2012

welp, another pub match another loss.

Razor + QoP went 1/26/14 combined.

<3 going solo in pub.

Rinku said:
I can understand your frustration, but I still stand on my argument. Use a clarity as soon as you use one or two chain lightning, that way you will not have to wait to use it again. Grab a bottle, arcane, whatever necessary to keep spamming. Make him pay for having to come and try to get that last creep kill. And if he does, you can always right click on him to drag the creeps to you, make the ranged creep attack you, and have him miscalculate the last hit, from there which you can deny.

I don't think it'll work at all, having witnessed it. But I'll give it a try, should I ever encounter the matchup again.

Tenck · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
welp, another pub match another loss.

Razor + QoP went 1/26/14 combined.

<3 going solo in pub.

I don't think it'll work at all, having witnessed it. But I'll give it a try, should I ever encounter the matchup again.

Dude, Rinku is awesome. Listen to him. He's a good player.

The_Player · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
welp, another pub match another loss.

Razor + QoP went 1/26/14 combined.

<3 going solo in pub.

What timezone are you in?

Gowans · Feb 28, 2012

I wish in friends games it had an option for community members.

I've only played public matches so far.

Tenck · Feb 28, 2012

Gowans007 said:
I wish in friends games it had an option for community members.

I've only played public matches so far.

Could be nice, but for now we have settle for the Gaf channel.

n0b · Feb 28, 2012

Dagon Doom Bringer is now officially my favorite carry. Didn't get to my refresher orb, but had level 5 dagon, radiance, all the normal health items, and I was just blowing fools the fuck up.

Togglesworlh · Feb 28, 2012

Phase boots, drum of endurance, Eul's scepter is a fun Lich build. SUPAFAST. Can't kill me if you can't catch me, assholes.

Dreams-Visions · Feb 28, 2012

Tenck said:
Dude, Rinku is awesome. Listen to him. He's a good player.

okaaaaayyyy....

chances are I won't see the matchup again anytime soon. but if I do, I'll definitely give it a try.

The_Player said:
What timezone are you in?

EST. Miami. and well past my bedtime! Conference calls in the am.

zombieshavebrains · Feb 28, 2012

n0b said:
Dagon Doom Bringer is now officially my favorite carry. Didn't get to my refresher orb, but had level 5 dagon, radiance, all the normal health items, and I was just blowing fools the fuck up.

Well i would hope so.

Trasher · Feb 28, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
only thing I hate about Zeus is his regular attack animation. depending on who I'm laning against, it becomes impossible to deny or last-hit.

I had to lane mid against a Bloodseeker earlier this evening and I couldn't do a goddamn thing to stop him from getting all the farm he wanted. Zeus' animation was always a dollar short and a day late, and using skills against him was just a waste of my mana. He'd get all damage back with that passive regen of his on every kill. It was like I was simply being given a lesson on who NOT to lane against. A front-row seat on how to deny someone with him when I finally try him for the first time. It was the frst time I've ever had that issue. Next time I see it, i'll simply swap with someone.

...and for future reference, how DOES one lane 1v1 against bloodseeker at the beginning of a game if has his passive heal going? Will you inevitably fail unless you have a character with a faster attack to deny and last-hit like AM? Because all the spells in the world wouldn't have kept Zeus from letting Bloodseeker have all the farm he wanted.

Axe mid vs Bloodseeker works quite nicely I must admit.

Drkirby · Feb 28, 2012

Troll Tactic Idea: Kill Roshan, destroy aegis, wait for enemy to come into pit to see why no on picked it up, kill them.

Finalow · Feb 28, 2012

Drkirby said:
Troll Tactic Idea: Kill Roshan, destroy aegis, wait for enemy to come into pit to see why no on picked it up, kill them.

well usually they have wards there.

ksan · Feb 28, 2012

Drkirby said:
Troll Tactic Idea: Kill Roshan, destroy aegis, wait for enemy to come into pit to see why no on picked it up, kill them.

Had a friend who always did that and then sold the cheese...

Balehead · Feb 28, 2012

Togglesworlh said:
It's even better when you get that solo queuer who waits until everyone has already picked, and you really need another support, and he goes carry a minute into the game, and his excuse is "I had [insert carry] selected first, [insert derogatory epithet]."

It's no easier being the solo queuer, he gets shit on what ever he does since the bros are a tight gang. They have their picks on lock before the game loads up and go with the buddies on their buddy lanes, sometimes creating completely idiotic lanes.

Meteorain · Feb 28, 2012

I too nominate Sanjay for his unfailing courage to do wrong builds in the light of better builds.

Sanjay · Feb 28, 2012

Rinku said:
So clans/teams are coming to Dota 2.

Where did you hear about this news?

Archie · Feb 28, 2012

Sanjay said:
Where did you hear about this news?

http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2012/02/dota-2-test-24th-feb/#string-updates

JustinBB7 · Feb 28, 2012

finalozzo said:
well usually they have wards there.

Can't see inside the pit though, if only Ursa does it the rest of your team could wait outside the usual ward view.

But this seems very risky either way haha.

Also Cyborgmatt also updated his prediction and added this:

Scared running animations confirmed! Along with chasing and injured animations. Man I can't wait for this game to be done..

Archie · Feb 28, 2012

I hope Valve does something about Sand King and Enigma's injured animations. They suuuuuucccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Rinku · Feb 28, 2012

Sanjay said:
Where did you hear about this news?

http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2012/02/dota-2-test-24th-feb/

There's a list of table strings that feature clan related content.

Finalow · Feb 28, 2012

this is bullshit now. I was 19 wins - 22 loss now 19 and 27 'cause people in pub are retards.
one leave the game before it even begins, someone else ingage 3 enemis alone like "I'm gonna feed them". bullshit.

and btw, it's me or SS k/d ratio sucks? I mean everytime I ingage a teamfight they always focus on me when I grab and of course someone will steal the kill from the grab.

Lirlond · Feb 28, 2012

Storm Spirit is hard to carry as, you normally get loads of assists(But this is a good thing, bloodstone!) and are really vulnerable. Good use of your ult is the way to survive with storm, you become invulnerable in it, so use it to disjoint stuns, and big nukes.

RadicalRad · Feb 28, 2012

How do yall build SB? I got stuck with him my last game, I know how to play him, but a tad fuzzy on the item build. I ended up going mask of madness and was working towards BKB, game didn't get too far though. :-(

Deadly · Feb 28, 2012

finalozzo said:
this is bullshit now. I was 19 wins - 22 loss now 19 and 27 'cause people in pub are retards.
one leave the game before it even begins, someone else ingage 3 enemis alone like "I'm gonna feed them". bullshit.

and btw, it's me or SS k/d ratio sucks? I mean everytime I ingage a teamfight they always focus on me when I grab and of course someone will steal the kill from the grab.

When someone leaves before it even starts/before his hero moves the game doesn't count as a loss.

ksan · Feb 28, 2012

And BKB!!

Storm's strength comes from the fact that he can initiate anywhere on anyone amazingly well.
You can jump in first in the middle of the fight and initiate on a dangerous target and disable them, and that's why you want a bkb against teams that have a lot of disables/magic damage.

RadicalRad said:
How do yall build SB? I got stuck with him my last game, I know how to play him, but a tad fuzzy on the item build. I ended up going mask of madness and was working towards BKB, game didn't get too far though. :-(

Armlet/MoM/BKB I would think, with the order of the items depending on how it goes and what heroes I play against

Schweinehund · Feb 28, 2012

Looks like matt's prediction is lycan with a possible shadow demon.

Was hoping for syllabear instead :3.

Lycan is going to cause so much QQ (mine included).

ksan · Feb 28, 2012

JiveTurkey said:
Looks like matt's prediction is lycan with a possible shadow demon.

Was hoping for syllabear instead :3.

Lycan is going to cause so much QQ (mine included).

And Syllabear wouldn't?

...

RadicalRad · Feb 28, 2012

I want my roofy!

Artanisix · Feb 28, 2012

ksan said:
And Syllabear wouldn't?

...

ain't that the damn truth

Ikuu · Feb 28, 2012

Syllabear looks closer to release than Lycan based on the assets, not that it matters as you'll need to wait an extra week to play whoever they add to Test.

Lirlond · Feb 28, 2012

Syllabear doesn't bother me too much. He's really easy to be bad with, so I don't mind him. Lycan though? Suuuuper easy. Really stronk too.

Crub · Feb 28, 2012

This is the ulti of a hero that was added to Dota 1 recently:

Duel
======
(Active, enemy hero target)

Calls the targeted enemy for a duel. Both you and the enemy will be forced to attack each other and will both be unable to use items or abilities. The victor gains 10 permanent bonus damage.

Duration: 4/4.75/5.5 seconds

Duel winner bonus damage: 10 damage.

Cooldown: 50
Manacost: 75
Cast Range: 100

Notes: The loser of the duel is the hero that dies while under the buff. There is no victor if both heroes are alive at the end of the duration.

In a well-coordinated team this hero could become pretty damn OP. o_o

Lirlond · Feb 28, 2012

Crub said:
This is the ulti of a hero that was added to Dota 1 recently:

In a well-coordinated team this hero could become pretty damn OP. o_o

He's good at pub stomping. I don't think an organised team would allow him to make the most of his ult.

RadicalRad · Feb 28, 2012

So what kind of chops do I need to play with Gaf?

JustinBB7 · Feb 28, 2012

RadicalRad said:
So what kind of chops do I need to play with Gaf?

Fresh ones

HK-47 · Feb 28, 2012

Crub said:
This is the ulti of a hero that was added to Dota 1 recently:

In a well-coordinated team this hero could become pretty damn OP. o_o

Apparently Xin is the one you have to watch out for. I want to play Rizzrakk though.

Also if either Lycan or Sylla gets added they have to go 5 bans. SD alone isnt too big a deal but either of the pushing carries, they better.

Dreams-Visions · Feb 28, 2012

finalozzo said:
this is bullshit now. I was 19 wins - 22 loss now 19 and 27 'cause people in pub are retards.
one leave the game before it even begins, someone else ingage 3 enemis alone like "I'm gonna feed them". bullshit.

get used to it. no mater how well you're playing, it's impossible to counteract problems that arise from poor TEAM play. I can't count the number of times I had to go ward as THE HARD CARRY or buy a courier (or both in the same game) just because nobody else seemed willing or interested in doing so. And of course nobody ever buys tp scrolls. Why waste the money amirite? It'll delay mah Blink Dagger! Then distant towers fall and people wonder why the team is losing.

solo pub is for if you don't want to take your win/loss record seriously. and since it's a Beta, you probably should't. Wins and losses will be reset at launch.

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