[Wowbagger]

You can only co-op with people who are within 10% of your level range (more if you're in the sunlight covenant), so some people stay low leveled so they can get the most out of co-op. You'll be summoned a lot more at level 40 or 50 in Anor Londo than if you were level 200 for example, because of the average levels of players in that area. If you invade, you can only invade people at your level or higher, so that's another reason to stay low. Also people just stay low level for the challenge or to try out different character builds.

This isn't accurate. It's within 10 levels plus 10% of your own level for co-op (80-120 if you're level 100, for example), and whether you're a sunbro or not doesn't matter.

And darkwraiths can invade players ten levels below their own.

[Zertez]

Just finished helping out a few guys with Smough and Ornstein. If some of you read that - I don't mind finishing them off by myself but please use the Estus flask sometimes to at least help me out a little.

If you plan on helping with Co-Op especially tougher bosses, it is a good idea to bump faith to least 12, if it isnt already. That way you can have several usages of heal without worrying about the host. Sometimes the tougher boss fights get hectic and you arent paying attention to phantoms hp. You can duck out of the fight for a second and heal. Once I started using my own heal in Co-Op, I rarely died.

[H_Prestige]

This isn't accurate. It's within 10 levels plus 10% of your own level for co-op (80-120 if you're level 100, for example), and whether you're a sunbro or not doesn't matter. And darkwraiths can invade players ten levels below their own.

No, it's +/-10% of your level. 20% if you are sunbro.

[Mxrz]

Ricard's + CMW has me winning most every fight at the Kiln. I want to make a devoted CMW character now.

Does the Leo ring do much? I'd have to give up the wolf ring for it since I'm using F&P. Which means 0 poise since I won't use armor on this character.

So many games I'm not finishing. Guh. I popped over into Demon's, and couldn't find an invasion even on 4-1. Sad days.

[Wowbagger]

No, it's +/-10% of your level. 20% if you are sunbro.

No, I'm right. Really. :)


Here's one test I did:

Level 43 forest hunter (+/-14) visible to level 29 sunbro.

Level 29 sunbro (+/-12) not visible to level 43 forest hunter.

Level 30 sunbro (+/-13) visible to level 43 forest hunter.


In other words, exactly 10 levels + 10%, whether you're a sunbro or not.

[Sullichin]

No, I'm right. Really. :) Here's one test I did: Level 43 forest hunter (+/-14) visible to level 29 sunbro. Level 29 sunbro (+/-12) not visible to level 43 forest hunter. Level 30 sunbro (+/-13) visible to level 43 forest hunter. In other words, exactly 10 levels + 10%, whether you're a sunbro or not.

Shrug,

The client’s level must fall within 10% (above or below) of the host’s level (this is more strict in the earlier soul levels).

I wouldn't be surprised if it were actually 10+ 10%. But I don't think I've ever invaded anyone at a lower level than me.

[Wowbagger]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were actually 10+ 10%. But I don't think I've ever invaded anyone at a lower level than me.

That support site is definitely wrong. The wikis are muddy on this subject as well. I've played this game for more hours than I'd care to admit, and done a ton of co-op with specific people. 10+10% has always held true, so I'm pretty confident that's correct.

As for invading below your own level: For what it's worth, I once checked the soul level of around 50 invaders while hosting in the Burg at level 100 and found they ranged from 6-110. I did the same later on at level 120. The highest invader that time was level 129. Of course, no telling what the levels of the players I failed to defeat were. :)

[2AdEPT]

While watching some TV it finally hit me how to take on that boss which I believe is what you are referring too; Hit him with the falling slash thing 3 times a few sword swings, can't believe it didn't hit me sooner :). Already finding out the multiple paths too after a few failed attempts at confronting that big hog, I decided to sprint past the dragon instead, we'll see where that takes me.. I spoke with an NPC who mentioned covenants but I didn't join. Next one I run across I'll accept and see what that's all about.

the dragon and boar both lead to the same place...try searching around Firelink for more paths in the opposite direction to Taurus, but if you find a " basement" keyit will open up more area near Taurus. a Mystery key is also found near the boar.

i've been noticing people say this a lot. what are the reasons to want to stay at a lower level?

For me its helping noobs go through Queelag, Gaping, Capra, and Golem...too high a level means you won't get action on these, there are always people staying low, even on Orn and Smu, there are fewer out there actually getting into the 120 range which was the target for demon's. 30-35 for prelim equipment gathering, 70-80 for final PVP strength and dex specialty....90-110 for a magic specialty to add on.

No, I'm right. Really. :) Here's one test I did: Level 43 forest hunter (+/-14) visible to level 29 sunbro. Level 29 sunbro (+/-12) not visible to level 43 forest hunter. Level 30 sunbro (+/-13) visible to level 43 forest hunter. In other words, exactly 10 levels + 10%, whether you're a sunbro or not.

I don't know what the "right" answer is, but you are not guaranteed to find a souls sign visible at amy level as there are multiple servers and the posssibility exists that you are on separate servers while testing. This happens all the time when trying to collaborate with certain individuals you knw are teh smae soul level as you....sometimes they drop and just do not show up. Ages ago this was explained by FROM themsleves somewhere...has the re-drop in order to cycle through servers strategy changed?

[Wowbagger]

I don't know what the "right" answer is, but you are not guaranteed to find a souls sign visible at amy level as there are multiple servers and the posssibility exists that you are on separate servers while testing. This happens all the time when trying to collaborate with certain individuals you knw are teh smae soul level as you....sometimes they drop and just do not show up. Ages ago this was explained by FROM themsleves somewhere...has the re-drop in order to cycle through servers strategy changed?

No, the strategy remains the same. However, if (and I think it's unlikely, as we tried for quite some time, and you do tend to stay together once you've been put in the same player pool) matchmaking broke us up and kept us apart, that just means the level range may be even larger. One of the wikis claim it's 10+15% around level 80, iirc, but I could never make sense of the wording.

[2AdEPT]

No, the strategy remains the same. However, if (and I think it's unlikely, as we tried for quite some time, and you do tend to stay together once you've been put in the same player pool) matchmaking broke us up and kept us apart, that just means the level range may be even larger. One of the wikis claim it's 10+15% around level 80, iirc, but I could never make sense of the wording.

from seems to like to keep it complex....rarely an easy formula for calculating things.

[krakov]

My experience is fits well with what wowbagger is saying. Invading lower is really common, though it's usually just a few levels of difference.

Anyone know how the darkmoon invade? is it just anyone guilty at any level, and what makes you guilty? There is a lot of misinformation being spread about a lot of aspects in this game. I'm pretty sure once you are guilty you can't get rid of it via absolution.

[Ratrat]

I'm in some crystal cave right after the Dukes Archives. Am I near the end?

[The Xtortionist]

I'm in some crystal cave right after the Dukes Archives. Am I near the end?

How many lord souls do you have?

[Ratrat]

How many lord souls do you have?

5 not including the ones offered to the lord vessel(I think 2).

[Mxrz]

My experience is fits well with what wowbagger is saying. Invading lower is really common, though it's usually just a few levels of difference. Anyone know how the darkmoon invade? is it just anyone guilty at any level, and what makes you guilty? There is a lot of misinformation being spread about a lot of aspects in this game. I'm pretty sure once you are guilty you can't get rid of it via absolution.

In my experience the only guilt you can't buy off is if you kill Gywndolin. Some of my characters have never seen a Darkmoon phantom despite staying in the Kiln/Burg.

I failed rather hard at invading Sens. Most of the time i'd die before finding the host. Probably time to level that character up into the 80s. Maybe go with Chaos blade, but 16 strenght is a bit much when it looks weakter than a chaos uni +5.

[The Xtortionist]

5 not including the ones offered to the lord vessel(I think 2).

You have to offer four lord souls to the lordvessel to access the final area so you're getting close.

[Soulhouf]

so i finally reached the giant blacksmith and now am able to upgrade my black knight sword further. the question is, i also found a giant's halberd so i'm wondering which one i should use? on the stast page, it says the giant's halberd is stronger, but in practice the black knight sword seems to do more damage, especially with criticals. is this due to the better strength scaler? or perhaps the mobs in this area have high lightning def? i do love the speed and reach of the halberd though, but its hard to ignore the damage of the black knight sword. theres also the option of crafting weapons with the boss souls i got. i haven't really looked too much into what they make yet though. any suggestions?

BK Sword is pure physical whereas the Giant Halberd is divided in 2 categories: physical and lightning which makes is weaker than it seems to be.

[Soulhouf]

No, I'm right. Really. :) Here's one test I did: Level 43 forest hunter (+/-14) visible to level 29 sunbro. Level 29 sunbro (+/-12) not visible to level 43 forest hunter. Level 30 sunbro (+/-13) visible to level 43 forest hunter. In other words, exactly 10 levels + 10%, whether you're a sunbro or not.

This man is correct. It was exactly like that in Demon's Souls and what saw in Dark Souls seems to confirm that as well.

[Ratrat]

You have to offer four lord souls to the lordvessel to access the final area so you're getting close.

Thanks.
Found out I forgot the one in New Londo Ruins so I think its just that and the ice dragon and im done.

[systemfehler]

Thanks. Found out I forgot the one in New Londo Ruins so I think its just that and the ice dragon and im done.

Do you want to finish the game quickly because otherwise you could do some optional stuff aswell. Like visiting the Painted World, defeating the Hydras, etc.

[Kiraly]

I just started playing this truly awesome game, but I do have some questions.

I accidentally killed the Undead Merchant in the Undead Burg, is this of any consequence? Plus, is there a way to sell off or something the acquired items (useless weapons etc.) you have looted or what should I do with them? I did buy some sort of box from that merchant.

[NaturalHigh]

I just started playing this truly awesome game, but I do have some questions. I accidentally killed the Undead Merchant in the Undead Burg, is this of any consequence? Plus, is there a way to sell off or something the acquired items (useless weapons etc.) you have looted or what should I do with them? I did buy some sort of box from that merchant.

He has some useful stuff but nothing that will hinder your playthrough too much. Hopefully you picked up the bottomless box as it is a useful tool for inventory management at a bonfire. You won't be able to get another one until fairly later if you missed it. The repair box you can get not too far ahead of where you are now.

Edit: Oh, and later in the story you will unlock a place to sell your unwanted items. But it is not available right away.

[ihearthawthats]

there are fewer out there actually getting into the 120 range which was the target for demon's. 30-35 for prelim equipment gathering, 70-80 for final PVP strength and dex specialty....90-110 for a magic specialty to add on.

interesting. i'll make sure to keep that in mind for my next character. ng+ doesn't reset your level does it? also, reading up on the wiki...level 700 something is the max? damn... has anyone even ever attempted that? lol

I just started playing this truly awesome game, but I do have some questions. I accidentally killed the Undead Merchant in the Undead Burg, is this of any consequence? Plus, is there a way to sell off or something the acquired items (useless weapons etc.) you have looted or what should I do with them? I did buy some sort of box from that merchant.

lol i did the same thing. the only consequence is that you can't buy anything from him anymore. some of the unique items he sells (iirc) are repair powder and lloyd's talisman. i seemed to have gone through the game so far just fine without either item.

in terms of selling stuff, i don't think you can yet (if at all). the inventory items don't count towards your weight, so its kinda harmless other than being disorganized. however, you can use the bottomless box to store items at a bonfire for better organization.

[Kiraly]

Thanks to both, I did buy the bottomless box from him :) If disorganisation is the only downside of hoarding all stuff, I'm okay with that.

[Red Liquorice]

Went to the Dukes Archive to farm for a Channeller's Trident, 30 humanity+serpent ring, got a drop from the second Channeller I faced in there, couldn't believe it when I saw the bright blue item light on the body!

Going to try and get another, but I bet that one takes forever, if at all.

[Sullichin]

My experience is fits well with what wowbagger is saying. Invading lower is really common, though it's usually just a few levels of difference. Anyone know how the darkmoon invade? is it just anyone guilty at any level, and what makes you guilty? There is a lot of misinformation being spread about a lot of aspects in this game. I'm pretty sure once you are guilty you can't get rid of it via absolution.

Don't mean to spread any misinformation, i was just replying to someone asking why people stay low level. Should have just said 'you need to be around the same level to co-op with people' instead of giving what I thought was the formula. Looking around I see tons of different answers, +/-10%, 10 levels and 10%, some saying darkwraiths can invade down 10%, some saying they can invade down 10 levels, some saying they can't invade lower level at all. You'd think the Wiki's would have this figured out by now in an easily readable fashion. As for being guilty, I think you're right, I'm pretty sure I've been invaded by darkmoons in the beginning of a NG+ cycle and that's supposed to reset your sins.

[rCIZZLE]

Finally started playing this again after like a 4 month break. Got up to the painting sub-area and currently trying to work through that. Damn wheel guys are messing me up though.

[krakov]

Don't mean to spread any misinformation, i was just replying to someone asking why people stay low level. Should have just said 'you need to be around the same level to co-op with people' instead of giving what I thought was the formula. Looking around I see tons of different answers, +/-10%, 10 levels and 10%, some saying darkwraiths can invade down 10%, some saying they can invade down 10 levels, some saying they can't invade lower level at all. You'd think the Wiki's would have this figured out by now in an easily readable fashion. As for being guilty, I think you're right, I'm pretty sure I've been invaded by darkmoons in the beginning of a NG+ cycle and that's supposed to reset your sins.

I didn't mean to accuse anyone, just commenting on the fact that it's really hard to understand some of the inner workings without trying it out for yourself. I still really don't get how the guilt system works and you see a lot of random information spread around based on second hand information. As a darkmoon you get the experience that very few are guilty since the blue eye stone works once in a blue moon while the red one works almost every time.

[Keikoku]

I need a second blue titanite slab (already got the one past the invisible bridge), is the drop rate that bad ? Or has it been improved with patches ?

[NaturalHigh]

I need a second blue titanite slab (already got the one past the invisible bridge), is the drop rate that bad ? Or has it been improved with patches ?

Quote from Wiki. Don't know if this is post patch or what:

Confirmed drop from the butterflies inside the Crystal Caves, although absurdly rare

[AEGISX]

I spent 999 bolts with lightning avelyn +5 and didnt even get one blue stab. So I went to ng++ to get the platinum trophy
It was 1.05

[Keikoku]

I spent 999 bolts with lightning avelyn +5 and didnt even get one blue stab. So I went to ng++ to get the platinum trophy It was 1.05

Thanks.
NG++++ here I come. Or maybe I'll just wait for the DLC to be available on consoles.

[Shawn128]

Ugh. I keep trying to reverse hollow to become human so I can summon for help on Anor Londo's Boss. I keep getting invaded and killed. This is so frustrating, I wish I could turn off the PvP sometimes...

[MechaX]

Here's a vid of "Competitive" Dark Souls PvP from a tournament hosted recently.

[Robot Pants]

Finally started playing this again after like a 4 month break. Got up to the painting sub-area and currently trying to work through that. Damn wheel guys are messing me up though.

Upgraded Eagle shield does wonders. Any shield with high stability, just walk slow and lure them out one at a time and they are much easier. Also found it easier to approach them via the Well Ladder and pass through the illusary walls, rather than jump down and approach from the water end.

[Red Liquorice]

Trying out invading with the Darkmoon covenant today for the first time and admit it's been puzzling. Almost everyone I've invaded has just been stood waiting for me, often with a couple of white phantoms, all with uber gear. Even my best weapons can't compete, the only wins I had were 2 in Sen's Fortress and both times the host died before I even saw them!

Does anyone have tips for playing as invader? I admit I just don't get it - when I invade, the host has overpowered gear, and when I co-op phantoms have overpowered gear, how the heck do I compete?!

[Robot Pants]

Trying out invading with the Darkmoon covenant today for the first time and admit it's been puzzling. Almost everyone I've invaded has just been stood waiting for me, often with a couple of white phantoms, all with uber gear. Even my best weapons can't compete, the only wins I had were 2 in Sen's Fortress and both times the host died before I even saw them! Does anyone have tips for playing as invader? I admit I just don't get it - when I invade, the host has overpowered gear, and when I co-op phantoms have overpowered gear, how the heck do I compete?!

I want to know this too. When I was in Darkmoon, they were waiting for me also.
Maybe because they are indicted? They know someone will be coming for them?

[SiegfriedFM]

They just need to kill Gwyndolin to then be served an unlimited stream of hopeful Darkmoon invaders just ready to be slaughtered.

Unless you're specifically looking for a fight, go to Painted World and farm the items you need off harpies and then move on.

[CountAntonius]

I want to know this too. When I was in Darkmoon, they were waiting for me also. Maybe because they are indicted? They know someone will be coming for them?

you are invading mostly darkwraiths(like myself) who thrive off pvp. The places where I can be invaded I left open for the sole purpose of being invaded. So if you invade me odds are I am waiting for you and looking for a fight.

[systemfehler]

If you plan on helping with Co-Op especially tougher bosses, it is a good idea to bump faith to least 12, if it isnt already. That way you can have several usages of heal without worrying about the host. Sometimes the tougher boss fights get hectic and you arent paying attention to phantoms hp. You can duck out of the fight for a second and heal. Once I started using my own heal in Co-Op, I rarely died.

Thanks - I already started leveling up faith for that purpose and so I can use the Artorias Sword properly. I just was annoyed by some guys who did not tell me what they want and just waited so I clear the whole "level" for them while they wait behind. Neither healing nor fighting.

But the majority of players is really great and helpfull. I had a guy help me with the tail of Seath and I don't know how I would have done it without him.

[weekend_warrior]

Trying out invading with the Darkmoon covenant today for the first time and admit it's been puzzling. Almost everyone I've invaded has just been stood waiting for me, often with a couple of white phantoms, all with uber gear. Even my best weapons can't compete, the only wins I had were 2 in Sen's Fortress and both times the host died before I even saw them! Does anyone have tips for playing as invader? I admit I just don't get it - when I invade, the host has overpowered gear, and when I co-op phantoms have overpowered gear, how the heck do I compete?!

Had the same experience invading with the Forrest Covenant. I think it's because the invasion system is borked and people know that they'll only get invaded by a lower level character (sometimes significantly lower), so they use it as an easy way to farm.

That's why my next character build is designed for jolly-cooperation instead of PvP invasion stuff.

[CountAntonius]

Had the same experience invading with the Forrest Covenant. I think it's because the invasion system is borked and people know that they'll only get invaded by a lower level character (sometimes significantly lower), so they use it as an easy way to farm. That's why my next character build is designed for jolly-cooperation instead of PvP invasion stuff.

When I invade as darkwraith I find a good mix of higher and lower people. The Forrest is where people farm often with phantoms so stay away from pvp there. Good pvp is at the kiln or Undead Burg, For invading I found the depths, New londom catacombs as good places where people aren't really expecting it.

[krakov]

SL 140 Boss is alive. (Tomb of Giants) just on the ground right above the area that holds the large divine ember

Missed this earlier, but didn't you say you were in undead burg in your first post?
Either way, not being invaded for 2 hours standing around is nothing short of a miracle.

[rCIZZLE]

Here's a vid of "Competitive" Dark Souls PvP from a tournament hosted recently.

LOL for some reason this is hilarious.

Upgraded Eagle shield does wonders. Any shield with high stability, just walk slow and lure them out one at a time and they are much easier. Also found it easier to approach them via the Well Ladder and pass through the illusary walls, rather than jump down and approach from the water end.

Didn't know there was another way in. I went water way and killed like 8 before one snuck up on me. :\

[Red Liquorice]

Can invaders kill the blacksmiths?

I just had an invader in (Dark) Anor Londo and he ran in the complete opposite direction to me and then I saw a lifebar take a hit, it had to be the giant blacksmith. I switched the console off immediately. What a total dickhead.

Why is it all the trolls wear one of the Pinwheel masks :/

[Sullichin]

Lol I agree that competitive PVP video is funny, plenty of derp masks, giant's armor, and flip rings. Dark Souls PVP/co-op is my favorite multiplayer experience ever, it's fun as hell, but a tournament-ready competitive game it ain't. Silly gamefaqs people. I was browsing the wiki's forums and it made me realize there must be a lot of young people playing the game. There's people that make up their own covenants with their own 'rules' - http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/f13-covenants - "you have to drop x humanity in front of priscilla to level in this fake covenant" - stuff like that. I'm just assuming they're really young of course, I don't actually know. Don't mean to offend either, it just seems corny to me is all.

Can invaders kill the blacksmiths? I just had an invader in (Dark) Anor Londo and he ran in the complete opposite direction to me and then I saw a lifebar take a hit, it had to be the giant blacksmith. I switched the console off immediately. What a total dickhead. Why is it all the trolls wear one of the Pinwheel masks :/

No, they show up as phantoms in their world. Some assholes like to hide behind important NPCs like that to bait you into aggroing them.

[Red Liquorice]

No, they show up as phantoms in their world. Some assholes like to hide behind important NPCs like that to bait you into aggroing them.

Oh of course, phew! I knew that now you say it, I've seen the phantoms myself when in others' worlds - just panicked when I saw the lifebar drain. It must've been the firekeeper since I'd only just killed Gwynevere and taken out the two hostile NPCs in the main hall.

[CountAntonius]

Oh of course, phew! I knew that now you say it, I've seen the phantoms myself when in others' worlds - just panicked when I saw the lifebar drain. It must've been the firekeeper since I'd only just killed Gwynevere and taken out the two hostile NPCs in the main hall.

He probably just feel from somewhere high up.

[ihearthawthats]

so i just defeated the four kings, and darkstalker kaathe appeared asking to join the darkwraith covenant. is it worth joining? looking at a wiki, the dark hand doesn't sound very appealing.

[Mxrz]

you are invading mostly darkwraiths(like myself) who thrive off pvp. The places where I can be invaded I left open for the sole purpose of being invaded. So if you invade me odds are I am waiting for you and looking for a fight.

Yep. This is why my invaders are lower level. You can actually invade people who are trying to clear the level. Meanwhile, invading Dark Londo is mostly a complete waste of time. There is zero reason for a host to be there after killing the Princess, except to farm invaders.

Why is it all the trolls wear one of the Pinwheel masks :/

probably not trolls so much as the Giants / mask / DWGR derp setup.

so i just defeated the four kings, and darkstalker kaathe appeared asking to join the darkwraith covenant. is it worth joining? looking at a wiki, the dark hand doesn't sound very appealing.

If you want to invade, getting the red-eye orb for giving him 10 humanity is easier than buying cracked orbs. For 30 humanity you get the sword & armor from the dark wraiths. Can't recall if the sword is needed for the trophy or not.