[Brian Fellows]

I can't understand that one Spanish trainer at all.

[Sanjuro]

Will more horses or humans die in this show?

[Cornballer]

Solid pilot. It looked great and I like a lot of the cast. Think I'll rewatch it at some point to get a better idea of what's going on in some scenes/plotlines.

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm stunned it didn't look like a home video project from 1987, as per Mann's usual. Amazing looking show.

I'll need to watch it again to sort out exactly what the fuck was going on, but it certainly weren't no JFC.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

My experiences with horse tracks is generally me going and getting really drunk and occasionally winning on a long shot to win, place or show. As a result, I didn't really get a lot of what was going on. Still, it was really fucking good and I couldn't be more excited for the show at this point.

I teared up a bit when they put the horse to sleep. And I'm not much of a horse fan other than occasionally winning, but mostly losing, money off of them. Of course I probably would have done that for any animal, reminds me of my dog. Still it was really well done.

[BenjaminBirdie]

My experiences with horse tracks is generally me going and getting really drunk and occasionally winning on a long shot to win, place or show. As a result, I didn't really get a lot of what was going on. Still, it was really fucking good and I couldn't be more excited for the show at this point. I teared up a bit when they put the horse to sleep. And I'm not much of a horse fan other than occasionally winning, but mostly losing, money off of them. Of course I probably would have done that for any animal, reminds me of my dog. Still it was really well done.

VERY well done, that.

[Sanjuro]

I'm going to need to see more. Some of the best visuals I have seen in a televison show.

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm going to need to see more. Some of the best visuals I have seen in a televison show.

Seriously. Anyone see who the DP was?

[rCIZZLE]

I'm going to have to check this out when it becomes available to the masses later. It's been awhile since I've seen Hoffman in anything.

[Cornballer]

- Ken Tucker review of the premiere
- HBO's Invitation to the Set feature (youtube)

[TerminalDogma]

Yeah, I got the basic gist of it, but wow I was kinda lost for most of that, glad to see others were too.

[Vyer]

Gonna need to rewatch. Definitely has potential.

[RatskyWatsky]

I'll rewatch it at some point to get a better idea of what's going on in some scenes/plotlines.

I'll need to watch it again to sort out exactly what the fuck was going on, but it certainly weren't no JFC.

Yeah, I got the basic gist of it, but wow I was kinda lost for most of that, glad to see others were too.

Huh. What was so hard to understand? Is it just really dense?

[Clevinger]

Huh. What was so hard to understand? Is it just really dense?

Yup. The gambling/horse stuff by itself is dense, then you add Milch's layered dialogue to it.

[RatskyWatsky]

Yup. The gambling/horse stuff by itself is dense, then you add Milch's layered dialogue to it.

Oh god. I think I'll read up on some horse racing terminology before the show's January 29 premiere so I'm not completely lost.

[metsallica]

Some of the accents are tough, too, though the trailer that played after seemed as if that stuff was a little tweaked. HBO is really killing it with the cinematography, their current slate is unmatched. Raw, incomparable beauty on display throughout. Great first episode, can't wait to see where it goes.

[BenjaminBirdie]

Once the episode ends, it's pretty clear:

a) Nolte's horse is bred from excellent stock, and he needs to choose a jockey carefully.
b) A group of four gamblers, have won an insane jackpot thanks to the good horse sense (HA! FUCKING HORSE SENSE! IT FITS SO WELL IN THIS INSTANCE) of one of them, who has a gambling problem that has cost him the ability to gamble at whim.
c) Ace has just gotten out of prison and is buying a horse through a proxy (not Nolte's MASTER HORSE). The preview for the rest of the season hints at his greater plans but all he's done so far is suggest to an old associate to look into buying a racetrack.
d) Two jockeys, one a redheaded dame with an irish brogue and one dude with an accent from Mars I think, are both looking to get their legs around Nolte's MASTER HORSE (jockeyly speaking). Speculation, but I bet by the end of the season, one will be riding Nolte's and the other will be riding Ace's. Mr. Martian's agent is called Porky Pig, I'd assume behind his back, due to his stutter.
e) There's also a renowned horse trainer who Mr. Martian wants to impress even though he kind of instantly loathes him. El Trainer Del Horses, however, must have some faith in either Mr. Martian or the horse he rode, because he surreptitiously bet on him and won.

The preview looks to pile on even more pro- and antagonists, so hold onto your...stick things...that jockeys use...to...do stuff.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Once the episode ends, it's pretty clear: a) Nolte's horse is bred from excellent stock, and he needs to choose a jockey carefully. b) A group of four gamblers, have won an insane jackpot thanks to the good horse sense (HA! FUCKING HORSE SENSE! IT FITS SO WELL IN THIS INSTANCE) of one of them, who has a gambling problem that has cost him the ability to gamble at whim. c) Ace has just gotten out of prison and is buying a horse through a proxy (not Nolte's MASTER HORSE). The preview for the rest of the season hints at his greater plans but all he's done so far is suggest to an old associate to look into buying a racetrack. d) Two jockeys, one a redheaded dame with an irish brogue and one dude with an accent from Mars I think, are both looking to get their legs around Nolte's MASTER HORSE (jockeyly speaking). Speculation, but I bet by the end of the season, one will be riding Nolte's and the other will be riding Ace's. Mr. Martian's agent is called Porky Pig, I'd assume behind his back, due to his stutter. e) There's also a renowned horse trainer who Mr. Martian wants to impress even though he kind of instantly loathes him. El Trainer Del Horses, however, must have some faith in either Mr. Martian or the horse he rode, because he surreptitiously bet on him and won. The preview looks to pile on even more pro- and antagonists, so hold onto your...stick things...that jockeys use...to...do stuff.

Yeah, this dude's accent was weird.

[Clevinger]

Yeah, this dude's accent was weird.

The jockey? He's Cajun. It's definitely one of the weirdest accents that exist in English.

[Discotheque]

Some of the accents are tough, too, though the trailer that played after seemed as if that stuff was a little tweaked. HBO is really killing it with the cinematography, their current slate is unmatched. Raw, incomparable beauty on display throughout. Great first episode, can't wait to see where it goes.

eh? I was only impressed by the cinematography of Boardwalk Empire at times this season, the stuff in Game of Thrones just looks amateur though (cinematography-wise I mean). Nothing to write home about.

This one though.....God-damn, wasn't surprised with Mann on directorial duties. And there was a lot to grasp in this.

It reminded me of the first time I saw Miami Vice (06), I was just overwhelmed at how fast they threw you into their world. Couple that sense of feeling in the series with Milch's dialogue and you've got a show that you gotta pay attention to at all times. Good pilot. And holy fuck at Boardwalk finale :O

[Cornballer]

One quick request for BenjaminBirdie and Count of Monte Sawed-Off: can you guys spoiler tag the plot points discussion, please? I want to try and keep the thread clean for folks that won't see the premiere until late January. Thanks.

[metsallica]

I better rip up this letter then! We'll just agree to disagree.

Definitely think the "jockey from Mars" was Cajun / New Orleans, though the accent was wildly inconsistent. Great that he made fun of Escalante's, though!

[Clevinger]

Definitely think the "jockey from Mars" was Cajun / New Orleans, though the accent was wildly inconsistent.

The actor's British, too, so it must be especially hard to master that accent. Not just an American accent, but a really weird one from Louisiana that pretty much no one knows about.

[dead souls]

A decent pilot. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more episodes come February.

[ggnoobIGN]

That was beyond awful. What the fuck even happened?

[Misanthropy]

That was beyond awful. What the fuck even happened?

Are you referring to the Pilot or something that happened within the pilot? You have to be more specific mate.

[Cornballer]

- Maureen Ryan
- Onion A|V Club

[Solo]

Oh shit, need to get on this pilot ASAP. Mann and Milch is a heavenly combo. Totally didn't realize it was airing this year.

[Solo]

I'm stunned it didn't look like a home video project from 1987, as per Mann's usual.

Keep this up Benji, and we're gonna have issues!

[BenjaminBirdie]

Keep this up Benji, and we're gonna have issues!

I'll admit I haven't watched any of his movies, actually now that I think about it, ever. But I remember the commercials for Public Enemies looking like it was shot on video. And not the Soderbergh, RED Camera, perfect looking video. Like...VIDEO video.

I might have been seeing things, but I remember that Tom Cruise movie he did (it's not called Entourage...what was it called? Jamie Foxx was in it?) was also shot on that Inland Empire kind of shitty video. Maybe Miami Vice was too?? Is that possible?? Would a studio allow that??

Anyway. This show looked fucking gorgeous.

[Solo]

Collateral (Entourage, lol), Miami Vice and Public Enemies were all digital. The first two were immaculately shot, but yes, PE was a mess.

[Emerson]

Pretty intrigued by this and hearing good things about the pilot. I don't think I'm going to watch it until the show actually starts though.

[BenjaminBirdie]

Collateral (Entourage, lol), Miami Vice and Public Enemies were all digital. The first two were immaculately shot, but yes, PE was a mess.

Hey, I knew it was one word!

For the record, I'm really happy with the collaboration so far. It doesn't feel like Milch was stepped on at all and Mann was essential to many of the pivotal moments of the pilot. And the show would be nothing without the dynamic approach to the horse racing, which, of course, is all in the director.

[Discotheque]

Haha I just imagined Collateral with Vinnie Chase as the lead and threw up in my mouth a little.

Yeah the digital look didn't work too well with Public Enemies (though there still are a few good shots in there) but it looks incredible for Miami Vice and Collateral.

[thekad]

Was awesome.

[Cornballer]

Welcome back, Solo.


- Sepinwall with a few thoughts on the premiere

[Clevinger]

You seriously haven't seen Collateral, benjamin? You should remedy that, like, immediately.

[Mashing]

I liked the pilot. The cinematography was great.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Welcome back, Solo. - Sepinwall with a few thoughts on the premiere

Yeah, it looked very much like a Mann movie, even if you ignore it being digitally shot. The music and everything all felt like something in one of his movies.

[newjeruse]

Enjoyed it visually, but was almost completely lost with a lot of the varied accents and differing terminology.

[Solo]

Welcome back, Solo. - Sepinwall with a few thoughts on the premiere

Thank ye, good sir!

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yeah, it looked very much like a Mann movie, even if you ignore it being digitally shot. The music and everything all felt like something in one of his movies.

It's possible he just started using better cameras or better cameras have become more affordable/portable. There was a lot of horse stuff that still looked vivid and clear but so "in the action" that it's unlikely it was some big Panasonic rig mounted onto a horse or whatever.

Thank ye, good sir!

Yeah, welcome back! TV ain't TV without you!

[Cornballer]

It's possible he just started using better cameras or better cameras have become more affordable/portable. There was a lot of horse stuff that still looked vivid and clear but so "in the action" that it's unlikely it was some big Panasonic rig mounted onto a horse or whatever.

You can see a few cameras in the Invitation to the Set feature. Most of them look pretty small, so I'm guessing they're DV? (I don't know a ton about this - just speculation on my part.) There was also a shot of the main rig they used on the horse racing scenes in one of the videos, but I can't remember which one. I was surprised with how sharp everything looked.

[Cornballer]

Also, the Hollywood Reporter article from back in April is an interesting read after watching the pilot.

After what an HBO source describes as "serious" discussions, Milch has the final word on scripts, but Mann decides everything else, from casting to cutting to music. Clearly that is not a situation to which Milch, the Emmy-winning writer-producer of NYPD Blue and Deadwood, has lately been accustomed. This insider laments that Mann has taken control of the editing process, saying: "David's used to writing on the page and in the editing room. And David's very good in the edit. It's a whole other writing process." But Mann and Milch, in a joint statement to THR, say they are happy with the working arrangement: "We both have the highest admiration for each other's work. After the pilot was finished and both of us liked what we did, we decided -- as two men who have been around for a number of years -- we ought to be smart enough to figure out a mechanism that would enable us to work together to our and the series' benefit. And we did." But the duo acknowledges the split responsibilities. "Like any good partnership, we collaborate with each other frequently on story, editing, etc.," they say. "But ultimately, the writing has to be David's domain with final decision-making, just as the filmmaking is Michael's."

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Ha, I have a hard time thinking either man has it in them to stick to their areas. I really liked the pilot, hopefully they can keep this show going for awhile. Although I feel like the shows greatest enemy (and greatest asset) is the pairing of Mann and Milch. Unless they can genuinely work together, they'll probably tear the show apart unless one of them backs down completely which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing either.

[BenjaminBirdie]

Ha, I have a hard time thinking either man has it in them to stick to their areas. I really liked the pilot, hopefully they can keep this show going for awhile. Although I feel like the shows greatest enemy (and greatest asset) is the pairing of Mann and Milch. Unless they can genuinely work together, they'll probably tear the show apart unless one of them backs down completely which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing either.

I think the leverage is really in the racing, on both sides. Milch knows that it's a critical part of the series and sees that Mann owns it, visually. And this is a dream project for Milch and so he undoubtedly understands that he's going to have to make concessions to get that experience of racing across to an audience. It's going to get Milch to back off sometimes, I'm sure.

[Clevinger]

Unless they can genuinely work together, they'll probably tear the show apart unless one of them backs down completely which wouldn't necessarily be a good thing either.

It sounds like Milch backed down. He writes. Mann/his team does everything else.

[Cornballer]

Poniewozik on twitter:

Three thoughts on LUCK preview: (1) Like all Milch shows, you need a while just to learn the language. (2) May have found a way to capture John from Cincinnati's poetic-loser vibe, w a more accessible dramatic angle. (3) Love how Michael Mann's direction gets how beautiful, and TERRIFYING, horses can be.

[Solo]

In this marriage, it only makes sense than Mann has control. Its still Milch's beautiful words and characters, but its Mann's job to focus that talent.

Deadwood was Milch with complete creative control, and it was the best television show I've ever seen. But then John From Cincinnatti was also Milch with complete crestive control, and that was some of the worst television I've ever seen. Having Mann to reign him in isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Cornballer]

Good stuff from NY Magazine:

- A Handy Guide to Understanding HBO’s Luck