[kennah]

No one? :(

From what I've seen, it's minimal boosts for gaming (except for ones that can take advantage of multiple threads). But if you're doing editing, and can afford the $100 - go for it!

[Blasty]

So I'm assuming a fan controller is the best option? Can you guys recommend any?

[Iacobellis]

Thank you, kennah and Vossler. I'll go with the i7 and most likely overclock it from the get-go.

[Thraktor]

Can someone help sway me to get an i7 over an i5? I have a 3570K in my wish list but I've been reading the 3770K is the way to go for any kind of editing. If I can see any kind of boost in game performance, then I can justify spending the extra $100 a little easier. In my case it would mainly be using Photoshop and Sony Vegas, anything to cut down render times would be great for me.

You won't see any benefit in games over the 3570k, but the 3770k is going to be quite a bit better for multimedia work. If you're doing photo and video editing and can afford it, go with the 3770k.

[MrBig]

So I'm assuming a fan controller is the best option? Can you guys recommend any?

I've never used a hardware fan controller, but the software fan control on Asus Z77 boards are fantastic.

[turnbuckle]

Still rocking an 8800GTS 512 and looking to find the best GPU upgrade I can get in the $180-$240 range. I'll probably build a whole new computer within the next year, but playing Diablo 3 now and I'd like to run at higher settings. I'm sure my CPU (e8400) is a bottle neck too, but I can live with it for now.

[Azzurri]

Is there any Nvidia VC that has Mini Display ports?

[kharma45]

Still rocking an 8800GTS 512 and looking to find the best GPU upgrade I can get in the $180-$240 range. I'll probably build a whole new computer within the next year, but playing Diablo 3 now and I'd like to run at higher settings. I'm sure my CPU (e8400) is a bottle neck too, but I can live with it for now.

You could get a 7850 at the top end of your budget, but your CPU is as you know a problem.

Looked into overclocking it?

[ReverseFate]

Alright guys, I am going to try to build my first ever PC (having absolutely no prior knowledge of PC building), so I followed the guide in the OP fairly closely. This is my end result:

Tower: Bitfenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Gamer Case, Black CPU: Intel Core™ i5-3570K Processor, 3.40GHz w/ 6MB Cache Motherboard: AsRock H77Pro 4 M w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, CrossFireX / SLI Ram: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Dual Channel Kit (2 x 4GB) HDD: WD 1TB Caviar Black 7200rpm SATA III w/ 64MB Cache Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-RW Drive, SATA, Black, OEM Video Card: eVGA GeForce GTX 570 SuperClocked 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-E w/ Dual DVI, HDMI Sound: Asus Xonar DG 5.1 Low Profile PCI Sound Card w/ Headphone AMP Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus CPU Cooler Power: Antec Basiq VP-450 450W Power Supply

The total cost, including the OS, is around $1050 CAD. Is there anything I should change, or am I good to go? I'm a little hesitant about the sound card. To be honest, I don't quite understand what it even does, so I'm not sure if I even need it.

[Oxn]

Alright guys, I am going to try to build my first ever PC (having absolutely no prior knowledge of PC building), so I followed the guide in the OP fairly closely. This is my end result: The total cost, including the OS, is around $1050 CAD. Is there anything I should change, or am I good to go? I'm a little hesitant about the sound card. To be honest, I don't quite understand what it even does, so I'm not sure if I even need it.

Remove the soundcard, unless you are a huge audiophile.

If you can get an SSD instead of that HDD, and get a 550 Antec Basiq instead of the 450 just incase you need that extra power.

I got the same Porc and mobo, its very good.

[kharma45]

Alright guys, I am going to try to build my first ever PC (having absolutely no prior knowledge of PC building), so I followed the guide in the OP fairly closely. This is my end result: The total cost, including the OS, is around $1050 CAD. Is there anything I should change, or am I good to go? I'm a little hesitant about the sound card. To be honest, I don't quite understand what it even does, so I'm not sure if I even need it.

Only thing I'd change would be the 570, for say a 7850 or 7870 (7850 would be my recommendation) but if you really want to stay nVidia wait to see what price the 660 Ti launches at next week or so.

No need for a sound card.

Get a Z77 mobo too, it'll give you the option to overclock.

Better PSU too, try and go for a good 550-600w one.

[Iacobellis]

You won't see any benefit in games over the 3570k, but the 3770k is going to be quite a bit better for multimedia work. If you're doing photo and video editing and can afford it, go with the 3770k.

Thanks. Would the i7 possibly have an edge for games that come out 2-3 years from now?

[ReverseFate]

Remove the soundcard, unless you are a huge audiophile. If you can get an SSD instead of that HDD, and get a 550 Antec Basiq instead of the 450 just incase you need that extra power. I got the same Porc and mobo, its very good.

Thanks for the input, I removed the sound card and replaced the power supply. I was considering a SSD, but its simply not in my price range yet. I'll hopefully just make do with the HDD for now.

Only thing I'd change would be the 570, for say a 7850 or 7870 (7850 would be my recommendation) but if you really want to stay nVidia wait to see what price the 660 Ti launches at next week or so. No need for a sound card. Get a Z77 mobo too, it'll give you the option to overclock. Better PSU too, try and go for a good 550-600w one.

Thanks! The only reason I picked the 570 was because it is currently on sale for around $250, but I'll definitely wait and check out the price of the 660 Ti before I finalize my decision.

[Vossler]

Thanks. Would the i7 possibly have an edge for games that come out 2-3 years from now?

Doubtful, as games barely support more than 2 cores now unless created for PC. (thank the current gen consoles) If the next gen consoles aren't more gpu oriented than the current ones, (which from the sounds of it, I would be shocked if they weren't) then maybe. Hyperthreading really doesn't do much in the way of gaming right now.

[Thraktor]

Thanks. Would the i7 possibly have an edge for games that come out 2-3 years from now?

Nobody knows, really. It partly depends on how the next gen of consoles turns out, and at the moment it doesn't look like any of them are going all-out on the CPU front (there's going to be a shift to running physics code on the GPU, for example). That said, if either MS or Sony go with a Bulldozer CPU, then 8 threads might become the norm, which would put the 3770k in a good spot. On the PC-exclusive front, the only upcoming game I can think of which might benefit from the 3770k is SimCity, but that depends on how efficient their new agent-based model is.

[turnbuckle]

You could get a 7850 at the top end of your budget, but your CPU is as you know a problem. Looked into overclocking it?

Never tried overclocking it. I wouldn't want to buy any special hardware cooler to do it. I believe the default speed is 3 GHZ. I've read before that it wasn't difficult to overclock but I'm clumsy and will probably ruin my system if I did it. If it's really simple I'd do it, but otherwise I'm scurred. I'll look into that 7850. Thanks for the help man

-edit-

I'm a little confused at the price differences on these two. One has an extra fan, but I can't tell of anything else that warrants the price difference. Is it because it's easier to overclock? If I'm not going to overclock my GPU should I just go with the cheaper model? Driver issues mentioned in reviews have me a little nervous.

XFX Double D FX-785A-CDFC Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256
For $270

Versus

XFX FX-785A-CNFC Radeon HD 7850 Core Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5
For $230

Edit #3 ---

I could wait for either of those from Newegg or I could go to Best Buy now and pick this one up:
Asus - AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card

For $249

Is there a clear cut answer? I'm not opposed to waiting a few days if the Asus is really a disappointment compared to the other 2, but it'd be pretty awesome to go upgrade my vcard today.

[Hellish]

So I'm assuming a fan controller is the best option? Can you guys recommend any?

If you have a lot of fans you and just want a lot of controls go with the scythe kaze q12
~20-30


If you want an RPM/Temp LCD Monitor & do not have a lot of fans, or do not mind running a few to the same channel with the use of splitters go with the Lamptron FC5V2
~45-60

[Iacobellis]

Thanks, Vossler and Thraktor. The i7 seems very sufficient for Photoshop and Sony Vegas, coupled with the 16GB of RAM I am getting. I might do a dual monitor setup down the road, games on one and editing or a web browser on the other.

[kharma45]

Never tried overclocking it. I wouldn't want to buy any special hardware cooler to do it. I believe the default speed is 3 GHZ. I've read before that it wasn't difficult to overclock but I'm clumsy and will probably ruin my system if I did it. If it's really simple I'd do it, but otherwise I'm scurred. I'll look into that 7850. Thanks for the help man -edit- I'm a little confused at the price differences on these two. One has an extra fan, but I can't tell of anything else that warrants the price difference. Is it because it's easier to overclock? If I'm not going to overclock my GPU should I just go with the cheaper model? Driver issues mentioned in reviews have me a little nervous. XFX Double D FX-785A-CDFC Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256 For $270 Versus XFX FX-785A-CNFC Radeon HD 7850 Core Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 For $230 Edit #3 --- I could wait for either of those from Newegg or I could go to Best Buy now and pick this one up: Asus - AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card For $249 Is there a clear cut answer? I'm not opposed to waiting a few days if the Asus is really a disappointment compared to the other 2, but it'd be pretty awesome to go upgrade my vcard today.

Part of me now thinks maybe spending so much on a GPU at this stage isn't the best idea.

If you're going to do a whole new build next year from scratch there'll of course be a whole new range of GPUs to choose from, so maybe something a lot cheaper like a 6850 would do to tide you over until then.

This is pretty much the cheapest around after a rebate

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102908

[EatinOlives]

Any news on the gtx 660ti price? I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to be able to afford it come next week.

[Thraktor]

Never tried overclocking it. I wouldn't want to buy any special hardware cooler to do it. I believe the default speed is 3 GHZ. I've read before that it wasn't difficult to overclock but I'm clumsy and will probably ruin my system if I did it. If it's really simple I'd do it, but otherwise I'm scurred. I'll look into that 7850. Thanks for the help man -edit- I'm a little confused at the price differences on these two. One has an extra fan, but I can't tell of anything else that warrants the price difference. Is it because it's easier to overclock? If I'm not going to overclock my GPU should I just go with the cheaper model? Driver issues mentioned in reviews have me a little nervous. XFX Double D FX-785A-CDFC Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256 For $270 Versus XFX FX-785A-CNFC Radeon HD 7850 Core Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 For $230 Edit #3 --- I could wait for either of those from Newegg or I could go to Best Buy now and pick this one up: Asus - AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card For $249 Is there a clear cut answer? I'm not opposed to waiting a few days if the Asus is really a disappointment compared to the other 2, but it'd be pretty awesome to go upgrade my vcard today.

The single-fan card will be louder, as the fan will have to run at a higher RPM to keep the card cool. The Asus is probably the quietest. Performance-wise, all three will be the same.

[kharma45]

Any news on the gtx 660ti price? I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to be able to afford it come next week.

To quote the supply manager at Overclockers in the UK

"...it's a $300 + taxes product.

It trades blows with 7950 and will be priced as such."

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...40&postcount=5

[Iacobellis]

To quote the supply manager at Overclockers in the UK "...it's a $300 + taxes product. It trades blows with 7950 and will be priced as such." http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...40&postcount=5

Might as well get a 670 FTW.

[Varna]

:(

How often does Newegg restock 690GTXs?

[Iacobellis]

:( How often does Newegg restock 690GTXs?

EVGA model is in stock on Amazon.

[Varna]

EVGA model is in stock on Amazon.

I kind of need to use the preferred account.
(Really, f you newegg... going to be a perpetual debt forever)

[Iacobellis]

I kind of need to use the preferred account. (Really, f you newegg... going to be a perpetual debt forever)

Why not just do an SLI setup instead? Say, two GTX 680's?

[mkenyon]

If you have a lot of fans you and just want a lot of controls go with the scythe kaze q12 ~20-30 If you want an RPM/Temp LCD Monitor & do not have a lot of fans, or do not mind running a few to the same channel with the use of splitters go with the Lamptron FC5V2 ~45-60

I hardily echo these recommendations. Two awesome fan controllers there.

Never tried overclocking it. I wouldn't want to buy any special hardware cooler to do it. I believe the default speed is 3 GHZ. I've read before that it wasn't difficult to overclock but I'm clumsy and will probably ruin my system if I did it. If it's really simple I'd do it, but otherwise I'm scurred. I'll look into that 7850. Thanks for the help man -edit- I'm a little confused at the price differences on these two. One has an extra fan, but I can't tell of anything else that warrants the price difference. Is it because it's easier to overclock? If I'm not going to overclock my GPU should I just go with the cheaper model? Driver issues mentioned in reviews have me a little nervous. XFX Double D FX-785A-CDFC Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256 For $270 Versus XFX FX-785A-CNFC Radeon HD 7850 Core Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 For $230 Edit #3 --- I could wait for either of those from Newegg or I could go to Best Buy now and pick this one up: Asus - AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card For $249 Is there a clear cut answer? I'm not opposed to waiting a few days if the Asus is really a disappointment compared to the other 2, but it'd be pretty awesome to go upgrade my vcard today.

It seems scary, but computers are a lot more resilient than people imagine. You just need to get over that initial hump of "I'm going to break something", and it's a piece of cake. As far as overclocking it once the cooler is installed, it can seem overwhelming just because of the amount of information. If you have a guide handy that you're reading as you are going through the overclocking process, everything quickly makes a lot of sense. It's a great way to get a ton of extra performance for very little cost.

Don't get either of those XFX cards, the coolers on them are garbage. Stick to MSI TwinFrozr, Gigabyte Windforce, Sapphire, or ASUS DCII.

:( How often does Newegg restock 690GTXs?

Depends, really.

I'd consider dual 670s unless you need the single PCB for a specific reason. Don't get me wrong, I love my 690, but it was a loud bitch that constantly hit a thermal wall when overclocking with the stock cooler. Much better under water, for sure. If you're going air, grabbing two of the Gigabyte Windforce 670s will run a lot more quiet, and give you equal if not greater performance than a 690 with the stock cooler.

[LiquidMetal14]

The best RAM you can buy is on sale today. $40 for 8GB. Promo code EMCNBNA25

How universal are these? Checking my Biostar MB product page, it says it doesn't support that kind. I mean if it's going to work then great. Also, I have GSKILL 1333 memory. How much better or faster will 1600 or more be for gaming and general use? Reading the feedback, they seem to OC quite easy. And last but not least, I have 2x4gb at in dual link. Would 2 of these also work the same?

Any answers would help.

I got done reading some things but I want to see if anyone with first hand experience can recommend even making the jump.

[thcsquad]

Mobo mainly, not a great case either and the PSU is small and won't last long. Might want to think about saving for something that would be more upgradeable down the line.

The PSU I certainly understand, but what about the mobo makes it non-upgradable? Beginner questions, of course, but this is my first pc build, so I have to ask them. Is it the CPU socket type? Is the list of supported CPU types going to seem dated soon? Does AMD just have a bad rap right now?

Are you generally locked into a cpu/gpu family with a mobo choice? I asked this because the list of socket types doesn't seem to match up at all between the two. Of course this doesn't seem like it should affect GPUs but AMD and ATI seem to be inextricably linked now that they're the same company (I haven't seen many AMD/Nvidia builds, it's mostly either AMD/ATI or Intel/Nvidia). I'm mainly a Linux user (essentially only boot into Windows when I need to use Visual Studio), and ATI's linux graphics drivers have a terrible reputation while Nvidia's are pretty good. It seems like that mobo I linked to wouldn't work if I later decided to go Intel/Nvidia.

If I do go Intel/Nvidia (more likely now that I think about the Linux factor), I'm thinking of going with Hazaro's budget build for right now and maybe swapping out the graphics card for a bargain basement one for now (maybe this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130592 ), and trying to cut whatever other corners I can to inch it towards $300, perhaps CPU, because the CPU and GPU would both be easy to upgrade later (unlike the mobo)

[Varna]

Why not just do an SLI setup instead? Say, two GTX 680's?

Space issue on this mobo. SLI doesn't leave the cards too much room to breath. Summer time is not helping. With two Accelero Plus my two 580s are hitting nearly 100c in GW2. These coolers work ridiculously well on a single card setup, but together... yeah, I'm just not comfortable with it. I figured I should try to sell em now before they depreciate any more.

I don't plan to OC 690.

[EatinOlives]

To quote the supply manager at Overclockers in the UK "...it's a $300 + taxes product. It trades blows with 7950 and will be priced as such." http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...40&postcount=5

Hot damn, I thought this was going to be in the same range as the 460s were when they released :(

[kharma45]

Does AMD just have a bad rap right now?

No their CPUs just aren't up to the standard of Intel's.

Are you generally locked into a cpu/gpu family with a mobo choice?

You'll be locked into AMD or Intel, and if you go Intel now there'll be no upgrade path from Ivy Bridge as the socket is changing for Haswell.

Of course this doesn't seem like it should affect GPUs but AMD and ATI seem to be inextricably linked now that they're the same company (I haven't seen many AMD/Nvidia builds, it's mostly either AMD/ATI or Intel/Nvidia). I'm mainly a Linux user (essentially only boot into Windows when I need to use Visual Studio), and ATI's linux graphics drivers have a terrible reputation while Nvidia's are pretty good. It seems like that mobo I linked to wouldn't work if I later decided to go Intel/Nvidia.

I always thought it was the other way around, I'm sure mkenyon will know.

[Iacobellis]

Space issue on this mobo. SLI doesn't leave the cards too much room to breath. Summer time is not helping. With two Accelero Plus my two 580s are hitting nearly 100c in GW2. These coolers work ridiculously well on a single card setup, but together... yeah, I'm just not comfortable with it. I figured I should try to sell em now before they depreciate any more. I don't plan to OC 690.

I guess all you could do is wait at this point until Newegg restocks.

[abunai]

I always thought it was the other way around, I'm sure mkenyon will know.

IIRC, in terms of performance the Nvidia linux driver is almost as good as the Windows counterpart while AMD drivers are nowhere near that level.

Quite a lot of complaints come from linux communites because nvidia doesn't open source their drivers. Their binaries don't survive kernel updates, so if you're relying on nvidia's binary driver you can't update your kernel until nvidia bother to update. There are some reverse-engineered drivers which are "good" for linux, but at the cost of being flexible/open enough to not break every update you lose a lot of performance.

Basically nvidia are better but they don't do it the "linux way" which causes some headaches while AMD sucks. At least that's how I remember it, could be wrong.

[Krabardaf]

Might as well get a 670 FTW.

Well, here in EU, assuming the 660 will cost 300€, that's a 140€ gap.
I'm thinking about a GTX670, but if the 660 end up having almost similar performances at a smaller price, I'm in.

Oh and a quick question about overclocking on Invy Bridge. 3570K+ CM Hyper TX3EVO, I don't mind a little noise while playing, and I plan on 4.3/4.4 Ghz. I read CPU can reach ~70° around theses clocks, and that de facto, the cooler wasn't a good choice for OCing. But isn't that nitpicking, considering the noise doesn't bother me and that 70° is really far from the cutoff temp of a 3570k?

[thcsquad]

IIRC, in terms of performance the Nvidia linux driver is almost as good as the Windows counterpart while AMD drivers are nowhere near that level. Quite a lot of complaints come from linux communites because nvidia doesn't open source their drivers. Their binaries don't survive kernel updates, so if you're relying on nvidia's binary driver you can't update your kernel until nvidia bother to update. There are some reverse-engineered drivers which are "good" for linux, but at the cost of being flexible/open enough to not break every update you lose a lot of performance. Basically nvidia are better but they don't do it the "linux way" which causes some headaches while AMD sucks. At least that's how I remember it, could be wrong.

All of these statements fall in line with what I've heard over the years. ATI gives the community a bit more lip service but in the end the drivers are just terrible while Nvidia's have been solid for a long time.

I've found that I can basically just go with Hazaro's build but leave out the GPU entirely for now and use the CPU's onboard Intel graphics until ~6 months from now when I have money. I like this because I don't actually waste money on a cheap GPU that I will replace. I did have to make some modifications because a lot of the parts are just discontinued. The other thing that people might be skeptical of in this build is the PSU. Realistically, what will a 380W PSU limit me to? I don't really see myself ever getting a $220 graphics card mentioned in the OP. The most I see spending on a GPU is $100-150. Should this 380W PSU be enough for that?

[LEGGZZZZ]

Ok Gaf, so much progress has been made on my 1st build. I'm almost finished,but ran into two problems. My Power button won't work, so I have to reach and hit the power button on the motherboard to power everything up. I have a ASUS P9X79 DELUXE LGA2011 motherboard, maybe I plugged into the wrong pins? Everything else seems to be working fine, even my front Led button, except the power button. Shit is frustrating.

My other problem is when I boot to my bios screen, it says I have a cpu fan error. I go to the bios menu, and notice that my cpu fans hover mostly around 600 to 605rpm, but it will occasionally dip as low as 585rpm, causing the error prompt to pop up. My cpu temp is at 43c, and I'm using a Noctua NH-D14 SE2011, does this appear normal? I checked around the net, and in many cases people replied those temps/speeds were fine. Again this only the initial boot up to bios screen, nothing installed yet. Any opinions from GAF experts?

Thanks to anyone who can help. I'm almost there!

[Pingoreous]

I build a new PC but my EVGA Geforce 670 gtx FTW kept crashing to desktop. Its a common problem with the 670. At $100 cheaper the 670 is a great deal but am afraid of buying another. Its it safe to buy the geforce 680 or will that one crashed to desktop every 5 minutes like the 670?

[pooptacular]

Does anyone know if using vsync and forcing tripple buffering via d3doverrider is supported with SLI? I'm thinking of sli'ing my 560ti while I can do it for cheap.

Also does this work with crossfire? I would not mind getting two 7850's for cheap either.

[CambriaRising]

I build a new PC but my EVGA Geforce 670 gtx FTW kept crashing to desktop. Its a common problem with the 670. At $100 cheaper the 670 is a great deal but am afraid of buying another. Its it safe to buy the geforce 680 or will that one crashed to desktop every 5 minutes like the 670?

Call EVGA. They have awesome Customer Service. You can get a replacement for sure. My 670 FTW works perfectly.

[TouchMyBox]

I always thought it was the other way around, I'm sure mkenyon will know.

AMD's linux drivers have actually improved quite a bit over the past little while. I'm still not impressed with either Nvidia's or AMD's drivers though. From personal experience, it seems like nvidia has still got an edge, but it's not as if there is some enormous disparity between the two.

[disappeared]

Well, here's my final build. Total came to $692 CDN, which I think is pretty reasonable. I'm getting $200 knocked off the price thanks to a family member, so it'll cost me basically $500 out of my pocket, which makes it a little better.

Really looking forward to getting back to playing my Steam library. It's been over two years since I've been able to play anything from it.

[Pingoreous]

@CambriaRising i RMA the card back to Newegg for a refund. Am considering the 680 because i think the 670 should not come with the Reference card design. Am glad yours works. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

[CambriaRising]

@CambriaRising i RMA the card back to Newegg for a refund. Am considering the 680 because i think the 670 should not come with the Reference card design. Am glad yours works. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

If you had the FTW it should have had the 680's PCB and Clock speeds. Did it look like this?:

Good luck with your RMA. You really can't go wrong with these 6 series cards, so if you decide to go 680, you won't regret it.

[fatigues_gasolini]

What would be a good step up from a gtx560ti? Im planning an incremental upgrade adding a ssd and was wondering if an affordable step up in graphics card is needed.

[SalsaShark]

What would be a good step up from a gtx560ti?

gtx 670 FTW

exactly what im doing, coming from a 560ti also

[mkenyon]

gtx 670 FTW exactly what im doing, coming from a 560ti also

FTW is a bad model of a good graphics card. Its not AMD and EVGA, its AMD and NVIDIA.

*edit* Don't mean to pick, it's just that EVGA's cards are really behind the times. It's beginning to be that same situation where people continued to buy Antec products because of name recognition, despite putting out an inferior product by all comparisons.

Gigabyte Windforce, ASUS DCII, and MSI Twin Frozr are better cards in every aspect.

[CambriaRising]

FTW is a bad model of a good graphics card. Its not AMD and EVGA, its AMD and NVIDIA.

wut

Edit: I get what you are saying. But those other cards are also more expensive, getting into the 680 range.

[SalsaShark]

Gigabyte Windforce, ASUS DCII, and MSI Twin Frozr are better cards in every aspect.

fair enough, but there's a different price tag involved

I wouldnt call it bad either, just not as good as some other manufacturer cards with extra features like more fans and whatnot

FTW card is still better than the regular ref