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Ignis Fatuus
Banned
(01-04-2012, 01:03 AM)
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I was this being discussed in the Wii U megathread and my mind was blown so hard I figured this new news was worth a new thread.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...ad.php?t=31067

Metroid Prime runs on a very heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 2. You can certify this to yourself by looking at the text box next to Asset_CMDL_EditorModel. Notice the word "/cooked/" in there.

For those of you who have worked with the Unreal Engine, you'll know what this is, else, you might wanna read. Cooking is a term for compiling all of the maps, scripts, materials, etc. you've made into one usable executable, or "game". It was used primarily for consoles, although now support has come out for PC cooking, resulting in faster loading times.

They also used Unreal's level streaming feature. This is highly detailed in Unreal Engine 3, but was also present in 2. It's funny how Retro got a private license for this stuff yet never sought to bring it out.

I also can confirm some UnrealScript source files exist on disk, which I am attempting to extract. Will probably branch this off into a separate thread for loads of fun and wackiness.

Thanks to wsippel for pointing this out.
Sammy Samusu
I should post less pop-gaf speak spam. It's bad for my health.
(01-04-2012, 01:06 AM)
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So that's why Echoes looks so dark. HA!
reptilescorpio
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:07 AM)
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Where is that iD tech diagram?

Also pretty cool we are getting more information on the behind the scenes stuff of Metroid. Never enjoyed the games but was really impressed with the quality of Retro's work.
NM0dz
Junior Member
(01-04-2012, 01:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ignis Fatuus

I was this being discussed in the Wii U megathread and my mind was blown so hard I figured this new news was worth a new thread.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...ad.php?t=31067



Thanks to wsippel for pointing this out.

Mind indeed blown.

I guess it was so heavily modified that Retro didn't even have to acknowledge the unreal engine on game boot-up. Most games that use Unreal 3 must say so, right?
JJD
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:08 AM)
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Well, consider me surprised!

Love that game, and I always thought it ran on a proprietary Retro engine.

What about the other 2 games?
hatchx
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:08 AM)
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Metroid Prime.


The holy mother of video games.
Franklinator
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(01-04-2012, 01:09 AM)
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Whoa, that's surprising
jett
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:09 AM)
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wat

That's one hell of a modification considering the games run at a rock solid 60fps.
Mama Robotnik
(01-04-2012, 01:10 AM)
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Obligatory: It was the best game of the last generation.

I wonder why no other devs tried to go for the streaming/loading-as-you-lay approach?
Mpl90
Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
(01-04-2012, 01:10 AM)
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Ok, this is one of those time where cvxfreak's tag is appropriate.

HOLY FUCKING CRAP
Door2Dawn
Banned
(01-04-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Retro are gods
BriareosGAF
Junior Member
(01-04-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Someone should let Jack Matthews know the jig is up!
Bear
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Wow, mind blown.

Seemed like it was heavily modified, but the game looked fantastic at the time. A bit more respect for the engine for being used in what is probably my game of the generation.
Rickenslacker
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Uhh, wow.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(01-04-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Pretty cool.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(01-04-2012, 01:12 AM)
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WOW.
Ondore
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(01-04-2012, 01:12 AM)
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Mind... completely blown.
Eusis
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(01-04-2012, 01:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

Obligatory: It was the best game of the last generation.

I wonder why no other devs tried to go for the streaming/loading-as-you-lay approach?

So good of an idea that they patented it!

Which isn't implausible, given Namco patented loading mini games.
Mpl90
Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
(01-04-2012, 01:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

wat

That's one hell of a modification considering the games run at a rock solid 60fps.

Just think what Retro could do with UE3 modifying it. No, don't think about it, 'cause the only thought can make brains explode.
Metalmurphy
Banned
(01-04-2012, 01:13 AM)
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Because of a /cooked/ folder?

That's a bit of a stretch no?
Nuclear Muffin
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(01-04-2012, 01:13 AM)
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Topic title is misleading. It's a very heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 2, to the point where it barely resembles its original source engine.

Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

Because of a /cooked/ folder?

That's a bit of a stretch no?

Some Unreal Script files exist on the MP disc. It is definitely based on UE2.
Mik2121
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(01-04-2012, 01:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

wat

That's one hell of a modification considering the games run at a rock solid 60fps.

You know a game can run in UE at steady 60fps if the devs. wanted, right..?
Mpl90
Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
(01-04-2012, 01:15 AM)
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...Buuuut DKCR...don't tell me it runs on another modified version of UE2. Or...or even UE3 :O
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(01-04-2012, 01:15 AM)
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I don't know why it's so shocking. It was the most, if not amongst the most popular engine wasn't it?
Instro
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(01-04-2012, 01:15 AM)
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I saw a poster mention in the wiiu thread that this was actually fake or something to that effect.
Metalmurphy
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(01-04-2012, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nuclear Muffin

Some Unreal Script files exist on the MP disc. It is definitely based on UE2.

Was that confirmed? He just "thinks" they're a version of UnrealScript.


Originally Posted by StuBurns

I don't know why it's so shocking. It was the most, if not amongst the most popular engine wasn't it?

That was probably Renderware.
g.r.e.
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(01-04-2012, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

wat

That's one hell of a modification considering the games run at a rock solid 60fps.

Am I the only one who had the game run like shit when there were more than a couple of space pirates + flying ones on screen? :/
Pandoracell
Member
(01-04-2012, 01:16 AM)
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This is...interesting, to say the least. According to my quick and dirty searching skills, the only non-Epic UE2 game released in 2002 is supposedly America's Army.

Would be weird if we went a decade without this ever becoming mainstream, public knowledge.
Beats
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(01-04-2012, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

Obligatory: It was the best game of the last generation.

I wonder why no other devs tried to go for the streaming/loading-as-you-lay approach?

Dark Souls does this I think. There aren't any loading screens unless you die, or warp somewhere. Metroid Prime has those doors to mask loading while in Dark Souls there's often long hallways, paths, or corridors before entering another area which is where I think the loading takes place.
GavinGT
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(01-04-2012, 01:17 AM)
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And all the Call of Duty games use a modified Quake III engine, so how is this surprising?
Bear
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(01-04-2012, 01:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

Obligatory: It was the best game of the last generation.

I wonder why no other devs tried to go for the streaming/loading-as-you-lay approach?

There were a few other developers who have done that. iirc, the Ratchet and Clank games last gen had mostly or entirely masked load times.


Originally Posted by GavinGT

And all the Call of Duty use a modified Quake III engine, so how is this surprising?

Eh, this isn't nearly as common knowledge and there is even less of a resemblance to typical games using the engine, plus Nintendo and their developers aren't known for using third party engines. Though, to be fair, Retro was still an independent developer until after MP.
Last edited by Bear; 01-04-2012 at 01:20 AM.
bluemax
Banned
(01-04-2012, 01:18 AM)

Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

Obligatory: It was the best game of the last generation.

I wonder why no other devs tried to go for the streaming/loading-as-you-lay approach?

Because its not easy to pull off.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
(01-04-2012, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mpl90

...Buuuut DKCR...don't tell me it runs on another modified version of UE2. Or...or even UE3 :O

Maybe it runs in CryEngine D:
reptilescorpio
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(01-04-2012, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nuclear Muffin

Topic title is misleading. It's a very heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 2, to the point where it barely resembles its original source engine.

Similar to elements of the engines for the Half Life and COD series coming from outside engines while being heavily modified.
Traumahound
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(01-04-2012, 01:20 AM)
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Mind blowing, if true, mostly because I don't remember any texture pop-in.
Nuclear Muffin
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(01-04-2012, 01:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by GavinGT

And all the Call of Duty games use a modified Quake III engine, so how is this surprising?

That's kind of obvious though. The COD games have a very "quake" like look, as do most games based on the Quake 3 engine, UE2 and UE3.

Metroid Prime 1, 2 & 3 look nothing like any other UE2 game though. The only other game that really escaped that common look was Bioshock (which also used a massively modified version of UE2.5)
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(01-04-2012, 01:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Metalmurphy

That was probably Renderware.

Wiki has a very impressive list of Renderware games, looks like you're right.

But regardless, I still don't get the shock and awe about this, is this meant to be some secret shame or something? It doesn't stop those games being remarkable in any way.

It does make me wonder if Armature's PS3 game is UE3 though.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
(01-04-2012, 01:22 AM)
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Wow. I didn't notice the similarities before, but going back, I can definitely line this up against other UE2 games and it makes sense.
Alextended
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(01-04-2012, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nuclear Muffin

That's kind of obvious though. The COD games have a very "quake" like look, as do most games based on the Quake 3 engine, UE2 and UE3.

Metroid Prime 1, 2 & 3 look nothing like any other UE2 game though. The only other game that really escaped that common look was Bioshock (which also used a massively modified version of UE2.5)

And Mirror's Edge and Mass Effect (for UE3) and the Splinter Cell games (for UE2) and Anachronox (for Q2) and basically almost any title that the developers of actually tried and had the skill to come up with and fully realise a good visual style of their own instead of just replicate UT, GoW, Quake, or whatever else was trendy... It's not the engine's fault if some companies want to make gritty uninspired shooter #2948.... Though I'd personally say any COD game since MW doesn't resemble Quake III either, and no, it's not just the themes since the Quake roots are obvious in something like Enemy Territory...
Last edited by Alextended; 01-04-2012 at 01:32 AM.
legacyzero
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(01-04-2012, 01:25 AM)
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Need a new Metroid from Retro for Wii U to make the system relevant IMO.

I feel that they are the only ones that can do it.
Firebrand
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(01-04-2012, 01:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by g.r.e.

Am I the only one who had the game run like shit when there were more than a couple of space pirates + flying ones on screen? :/

It was mostly good but in certain situations, yeah, there were drops. The one fight I remember where the frame rate got really bad was against the worm boss (Amorbis) in Echoes.
Boards of Canada
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(01-04-2012, 01:26 AM)
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I don't buy it. Goes against what I know of the three MP games.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
(01-04-2012, 01:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bear

There were a few other developers who have done that. iirc, the Ratchet and Clank games last gen had mostly or entirely masked load times.

God of War 1 and 2 also had mostly masked load times besides when you died and had to restart. Other than that I think there were like two brief loading sequences in each game.
Frankfurt
Banned
(01-04-2012, 01:32 AM)
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Where's that kid that whines about the "piss filter" in every Unreal thread?

Originally Posted by Alextended

And Mirror's Edge and Mass Effect (for UE3)

And Alice Madness Returns, and Mortal Kombat.
Last edited by Frankfurt; 01-04-2012 at 01:34 AM.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
(01-04-2012, 01:34 AM)
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I can't believe it lol.. That's nuts
Reversed
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(01-04-2012, 01:36 AM)
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Holy cow, that page is a TV tropes for me.

Y:/cook_rep/worlds/gf_planet/!e3_world

They also know how to make files. B)
Alextended
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(01-04-2012, 01:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frankfurt

Where's that kid that whines about the "piss filter" in every Unreal thread?

I doubt he whines over UE2 since there were no such filters back then for the most part, UE2 was more or less the top of the line of the "last gen" type tech at that point, before the introduction of things like heavy use of pixel shaders and what not... Just raw power, polygon pushing, high resolution textures, large maps with both detailed indoors and open terrain, etc... It only had poor lighting, though that also wasn't obvious in Epic's (at the time rather colorful) games since they had static conditions. Except for games that modified it to add such effects, like the Splinter Cell games with their full dynamic lighting, shadows, filters all over, etc.
Last edited by Alextended; 01-04-2012 at 01:41 AM.
ElFly
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(01-04-2012, 01:37 AM)
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Nice find.
Himself
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(01-04-2012, 01:39 AM)
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I...have no idea what I'm looking at. Sure do love Metroid Prime, though!
M3d10n
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(01-04-2012, 01:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

wat

That's one hell of a modification considering the games run at a rock solid 60fps.

I think Unreal Tournament Championship on the Xbox ran at 60fps. The game also supported 4:3 720p via component.

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