Slamtastic
Member
Maybe the fighting game community is starting to accept Smash.
(see SFxT at EVO)
(see SFxT at EVO)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Apex 2012 | Fighting game tournament | January 6-8
- Thread starter USD
- Start date
Rice-Eater
Member
GAWT DAYUM, I had no idea how huge Smash Brothers could be. Outside of EVO, only SSF4 from Season's Beatings Redemption had more players for a single game(420). But it's easier when there community is centered on one franchise instead of people constantly branching off from SF in the regular FGC.
Well I'm looking at the list and you're probably right. Nothing else will break 1000 on that list, although several will come somewhat close. I guess that's the power of combining Smash and FG community together.
It might not end up the biggest tournament for non-Smash, but there will definitely be some players there. Sanford, Jeron, Min, and Arturo will be there. AG will be there. I'm pretty sure Dieminion, Noel Brown, MastaCJ, and others will show up too.
SolarPowered
Member
There must be some seriously bad blood between the communities for Smash to be ignored when it can pull such good numbers. The stream topped out at 5k yesterday which was pretty surprising to say the least. The game can draw good numbers at Apex and EVO numbers could easily be larger than MK for either smash from hype alone.
Lots of bad blood. Particularly over rules.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
There was a time when people used the ledge grab constantly to stall. A person would get a slight lead then "plank". Grabbing and letting go of a ledge gives you a number of invincibility frames and if timed right can be nearly impenetrable.
I think this is possible in Melee too, but it never really became a problem since Melee is a lot more rushdown than the slower pace of Brawl.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Yeah, Smash regularly pulls these numbers. Melee alone has had 60 majors in its history...its been quietly having big tournaments for 10 years now lol.
Eh, most of it actually isn't bad blood. As someone who knows all the people involved (from the smash side and the FGC side), most of it is logistics. Smash can pull in such monstrous numbers that EVO is legitimately afraid of fitting all of them....if smash was announced for EVO, either game, you can damn well be sure it would shatter even the impressive numbers here. When Melee was at EVO it was the biggest game there iirc (might be second to Marvel at the time idk), and fitting everyone was a legit problem. Plus none of the setups are shared; you can't switch a smash setup to a SF/Marvel setup because a) smash doesn't use HDTVs and b) wiis and gamecubes aren't PS3s and 360s lol.
Adding smash isn't quite like adding Mortal Kombat or Soul Calibur. It'd take a lot more effort...most MK and SC players aren't even unique entrants for example; they are just SF players playing another game lol. That makes them much easier to manage..
Two things need to happen before Smash is back at Evo;
1. Sakurai swallows his pride and caters the next Smash towards both the casual and competitive players.
2. FG purists stop trying to impose their idea of how the game should be played when the only gameplay scenario they have experience with is two characters fighting in an enclosed box without any random hazards.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Haha, wow. Smash. I had now idea how big big it was!
I need to watch this on Stream, I want to know if it's fun to watch or how they even play that clusterfuck of a game. Is there an official rules online somewhere to read?
I need to watch this on Stream, I want to know if it's fun to watch or how they even play that clusterfuck of a game. Is there an official rules online somewhere to read?
Opus Angelorum
Member
I find Smash difficult to watch, can be all over the place.
No items, 4 stock.
Legal stages are Final Destination, Battlefield, Dream Land 64, Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Pokemon Stadium, Kongo Jungle 64, Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise.
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tournament_legal_(SSBM)
Mister Wilhelm
Member
I think it's crazy that they allow him. His mobility, damage, everything is nuts compared to the rest of the cast.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Yeah, he is pretty broken. He has a keep-away game that is very, very difficult to counter. His short-hop dair wall is frame-perfect, his down smash is unpunishable, he can actually edgeguard unlike every other character in the game, and has multiple recovery options. Plus tornado has comically good priority.
SolarPowered
Member
What is the problem? Why would EVO have a problem with rules for a game that another community has built up?
Eh... I don't expect much from him in this department. Smash and Brawl are fun enough to watch and they don't look anywhere near as dated as MvC2 or SFII.
Yeah... I don't know much about this. What happened?
This is pretty sick. I'm genuinely surprised that the game has had so little stream action at tournaments. What are the regular streams I can follow?
None of this sounds like it would be a problem at all if it were a Capcom game. All I've heard from the big hanchos at EVO recently is how they want to grow the community as much as possible.
This is a problem to an extent. Can't they just use component cables? Smash looks GREAT on this stream with little no lag. The Wii is also cheap as fuck/plays both smash games and Nintendo's next system will only be more expensive.
Sounds like Smash will never be at EVO for one reason or another...
Hmmm... I figured there would be some overlap since guys like Noel and Chris G(I think so) played a lot of smash back in the day.
Pretty damn simple if you ask me. What happened at the last EVO with Smash? The rules look pretty easy to follow.
Yeah... I wouldn't count on Nintendo at all when it comes to competition and smash.
Cloudius12
Member
yea he was
Face it Tiger..
Banned
I know everyone is hype about brawl & AE casuals (not) so WPgames in brasil, featuring Jsmaster, is having a hype ass Mahvel tourney. http://www.twitch.tv/wpgames
Justin Timberlake
Member
Thats the question all smash players were wondering...EVO wanted items on without knowing the history of the game. People experimented with item rulesets for years until it was slowly accepted as bad in a tournament setting. After that rigorous testing and discussion, EVO wanted to make it legal again to see how it'd go. Needless to say, smash heads weren't happy and turnout eventually dwindled after a very successful first season on the EVO circuit (this was back when EVO was more than one tournament; EVO west, EVO world etc). This was at a time when the FGC was smaller than the smash community (which was the case until SF IV, when the FGC exploded) so most smash players didn't think the drama was worth it and eventually distanced themselves for good.
Fast forward to 2012 and of course most smash players want smash at EVO. Cruel twist of fate lol.
PEEFSmash, MeleePacWest, MeleeAtlNorth are some. All on twitch. But tbh, smash has always been more youtube based. Streaming is slowly gaining traction.
Popular youtube channels are ATVSmash, TheWaffle77, ajpanton, DVCRecRoom, stabbedbyahippie, UsurperKingZant, Juggleguy, durhamred, MeleePacWest, MeleeAtlNorth...
Nah you can't play Melee on an HDTV. Even 1 frame of lag is too much. The game is hyper technical.
Brawl was on HDTVs for MLG tho so thats possible though.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Smash 64: 64 (capped)
All-Brawl: 64 (capped)
Melee: 331
Brawl: 410
Marvel: 128
AE: 98
MK: 32 (capped?)
Pokemon: 32?
Melee and Brawl were also soft-capped. Based on what I'm hearing, there are like 300-400 spectators too.
And that is exactly why it will never be at EVO again.
Smash is a casual fun party game MADE FOR casuals. It just so happens that a community grew around it and has tried it's hardest to make it competitive. Tripping is an easy thing to use as an example, but as long as the developers are ignorant of the communities existence and demands you will never ever see the more hard headed members of the FGC accept Smash "as a fighting game." And I predict that will be never because Sakurai or whomever has competitive viability fairly low on his priority list when it comes to their design philosophy, many items under "making it a game anyone of any age can enjoy" and other things you'd characterize as casual interests.
viewtiful_dru
Member
Is Melee going to be on stream? I'm really waiting for that and Mahvel 3
Justin Timberlake
Member
Melee was on yesterday. Today is Brawl. Melee bracket will start back up at 9 EST tomorrow, followed by top 8 of each game.
Nintendo reps are actually at this. They know about the community.
Justin Timberlake
Member
FGC stream back on: http://www.twitch.tv/bifuteki
Yesterday, and finals tomorrow I guess.
SolarPowered
Member
I can totally see how Smash players could have an advantage coming into Mahvel now haha.
Thanks
Such a shame that they aren't there.
Sounds like EVO pulled an MLG(at least what the FGC fears) on the Smash community. Pretty fucked up and shortsighted if true imo.
Bookmarked and subscribed to nearly all of them.
Thanks
I knew they were strict, but that is pretty beast. I can see why equipment could be a problem with the numbers below.
Some crazy shit. They may actually surpass upcoming AE 2012 EVO numbers with a single game if the hype is good.
Such a shame that they aren't there.
Sakurai will be less involved in the viability and competitive side of things iirc. I'm pretty sure that a committee is going to have more say in that department which is comforting. Melee is plenty competitive though.
They have stated this? Almost sounds good to be true and is HUGE for Smash of so IMO.
Also yeah I've been raving about how well Smash players transition to Marvel forever. Many concepts and skills transition over seamlessly like space and aerial control.
Which is pretty ironic, because competitive players are people too.
I remember coming back to SF after years of playing nothing but Smash. Couldn't stop jumping in, dashing and getting countered
Justin Timberlake
Member
Yeah, its crazy. Noel Brown, Bum, Falcomist, Alukard, etc...all come from smash. I don't know about other areas, but there was a point where 3 of the top 5 Marvel maryland players were smash heads.
There seems to be a lot less overlap with SF though. Dunno why.
Bum is a smash player?
Is he here? Goddamnit Bum you've got the momentum and hype on your side, join a tourney for Pete's sake!
Acerac
Banned
Bum was one of the best Donkey Kong players for a long time.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Most of the Bum house crew is part of an old-school smash crew called Deadly Alliance.
Bum invented DK. He was quite a successful player.
It's because SF is a slower, more strategic game and coming from a Smash background gives you a lot of bad habits you need to get rid of. After having played a decent amount of traditional fighters, I really notice how many useless attacks or follow ups there are in a Smash match. Players could benefit a lot from having a bit of restraint in their approach. Looks like Japanese smashers have figured this out, along with Isai in SSB64.
SolarPowered
Member
Street Fighter is boring and slow compared to Mahvel/Smash(I can still recognize that it's not a bad game though). My game in SF improved drastically after playing Vampire Savior(Darkstalkers 3) for a while which is probably the second fastest(nearly a tie with MvC2) 2D fighter out there, but Street Fighter IV just feels like I'm playing underwater so I can't stick with it.
http://ds.ign.com/articles/117/1174428p1.html
This is Nintendo so don't hope for too much.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
I loooved Melee, equally enjoy Marvel. Don't really like Brawl despite the new characters.
Rice-Eater
Member
It seems my favorite game(SF4) to play and watch is on the decline with the community. All I see is people bitching to put Marvel on constantly. Well I guess I'll tune out until next weeks LG SF4 qualifier then. Maybe I'll watch the top 8 as well but that's about it.
Stay strong brother! $10,000 pots for LG Phone games with save the Street Fighter community!
Justin Timberlake
Member
Its a shame.
I really wish #esports would stop switching so much from game to game depending on the flavor of the week....
Is it weird that my problem is that there are too many games that I enjoy? I love Smash, Mahvel, SSF4, Third Strike, Vampire Saviour and would probably enjoy Guilty Gear if I had access to it, but out of all those, Smash to 3S to VS would be my "roots".
I like them all too much to drop any of them, but I can't seem to spread out over so many games.
Also someone asked about Metaknight earlier and I was trying to find an old post I made for Marvel GAF asking the same question. I'm late, but fuck it, all that effort isn't getting wasted:
In other news, what have I missed in terms of the 2D fighter stream? I just got in around 10 minutes ago.
I like them all too much to drop any of them, but I can't seem to spread out over so many games.
Also someone asked about Metaknight earlier and I was trying to find an old post I made for Marvel GAF asking the same question. I'm late, but fuck it, all that effort isn't getting wasted:
In other news, what have I missed in terms of the 2D fighter stream? I just got in around 10 minutes ago.
Dunno if this has been posted yet: http://apexsmash.com/stream/
You get to switch between smash and then marvel/2012/mk
You get to switch between smash and then marvel/2012/mk