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Smash Season One |OT| A show about a hit musical on a network with no hits

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M

Magnus

Member
Predictable as it might be, this was a beautifully produced finale, and honestly, a well-produced show. I dug it. Will offer more in depth thoughts later.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
Okay, that was a competent finale, though it was pretty by the numbers. I really want to like this show and the groundwork is there, but I guess we'll see what next season's "new direction" can provide us. (If Julia is pregnant with Michael's baby, she won't be the only one vomiting.) They'll have to do some serious overhauling if they want me to keep watching next year.

But one thing that I can say for certain is that this show has great original songs.
 
D

Delio

Member
Magnus said:
Predictable as it might be, this was a beautifully produced finale, and honestly, a well-produced show. I dug it. Will offer more in depth thoughts later.
Click to expand...

I agree. I LOVED the final song so much. I don't know how I feel about Ivy going all crazy,pill popping mode. Hopefully she doesn't do that.

Also Ellis running off like a evil villian was funny, but can't he be arrested for attempted murder? Wouldn't look so smug behind bars.
 
M

Magnus

Member
Ivy's path wrote itself the moment she was ousted as Marilyn, based on her drug-abuse history and a need for them to have a shock cliffhanger that appropriately channeled Marilyn's story. Very paint-by-numbers, but eh, it worked.

Sometimes, I appreciate predictable, classic storylines, when they're polished and shiny like this one. It's pretty tough to build a character you really do want to love and hate equally at the same time, and I feel like they worked it out with Ivy.

The moment I fell in love with this show for realsies, was definitely Ivy's workshop rendition of Second Hand and Broken. Shit, that was beautiful and perfect for her point in the story.

I'm really, really anxious to see what Season 2 is about.

I really dug the music for this show...was it all original? My musical history/education is garbage, so I have no idea. If it is, man, it annihilates most musical numbers I've seen myself on stage, lol. Loved almost every single one.

My favorite moment tonight was definitely seeing Karen pull off one amazing song in rehearsal while the visuals alternated to Ivy recollecting her rendition of the song at Derek's apartment half a season ago. Loved when songs reappeared like that throughout the season to very different circumstances; they were great anchors.

Really dug the dynamic of Tom, Julia, Eileen and Derek as the creative core of the musical; those tensions and head-butting, damn, that was the heart of the show for me, even if it wasn't centre-stage all that much. Watching 'Bombshell' come to life since the winter was rather fulfilling.
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
Solid finale. Very enjoyable. They did a good job of pulling the songs they'd done before back in during the preview performance. Final song was great, nice wrapup of Marilyn and the characters.

Ivy is a great love/hate character. Don't pop dem pills, girl. We need you back.

I hope Ellis gets hit by a bus.
 
M

Magnus

Member
What do you guys think, re: Season 2? They really could go a million ways.

A brand new musical with a mostly new cast? (I don't think this could or should happen, considering the dangling plot threads left to follow up on)

The first-run 'season' of 'Bombshell' that continues immediately (or like, a few weeks?) after this finalé ends?

A several-months/years-later thing where key characters find themselves together again on a new project?

Also, re: season 1 and the finalé, this article, which I thought was really on point; I quite literally can't remember the last time I ever agreed with a TV critic/review. Bolded the points I agree with most:

Robert Bianco said:
Ending the season on a high note is great, but now Smash has to sustain it.

Still, if you had any doubts during the show's prolonged midseason slump whether NBC was right to renew this ambitious but undisciplined weekly musical, Monday's season finale must have erased them. This was the show Smash promised to be in its pilot and should be in its second season: smart, focused, suspenseful, musically on target and almost completely beguiling.

Almost. There were a few things that didn't work: Ivy threatening to take pills, Julia's family being pills, and anything having to do with Ellis. But what the show has proved in its last three outings, which focused on the efforts to open the Marilyn Monroe musical Bombshell on the road, is that it does have a compelling story to tell when it gets the debris out of the way and tells it.

Luckily, Smash is getting a new show-runner next season and a new chance to get back on track. How? A few suggestions:

1. Dump Ellis. Designed as a character you love to hate, Ellis became one you'd love to hit, a victim of terrible writing and, in Jaime Cepero, a young actor not equipped for the heavy lifting the character required. Intentionally or not, his badly played confession that he fed Rebecca peanuts to provoke an allergic reaction gives an easy out: At the very least, that's an assault. While many are rooting for a firing squad, imprisonment will do.

2. Save Ivy. Start by taking those pills out of her hands; the whole Monroe symmetry is too Valley of the Dolls cheesy. Then find a way to make better use of Megan Hilty, who has a great voice and showed flashes of being able to create a sympathetic character, but was neither a believable Marilyn nor a particularly entertaining villain. So free Ivy from Bombshell, where her usefulness has come to an end, and let us watch her pursue a separate star track.

3. Help Katharine. What Derek said about Karen on Monday goes for Katharine McPhee: She's a star. Performing the show's final number, Smash's best original song since the pilot, she glowed, and not just because of the lighting. As an actor, though, she's often getting by on charm, natural talent and low expectations alone — and those falter when scenes require her to stretch. She doesn't need a lot of help, but a little coaching couldn't hurt.

4. More Broadway, less pop. Last we looked, this was a show about Broadway. So let the characters express themselves through numbers written for musicals (which are better designed to carry plot and develop character anyway) and leave the pop covers to Glee, which does them better. And never, ever stage a number in a bowling alley again.

5. Better personal stories. Smash's mistake wasn't delving into the lives of its characters; it was making those lives so deadly dull. Leave Julia's deadweight of a family at home (and if that was a pregnancy they were hinting at, drop the hint); send Dev to D.C.; put some heat into Tom's love life; and give us a better reason to believe Eileen is entranced by the bar owner. And no one is allowed to visit Ellis in prison.
Click to expand...
 
D

Delio

Member
Honestly, I'd love a timeskip of sorts. Bombshell has had a good run and Karen is well known now. They start to think about a follow up show as you said. Somehow I think Karen should get an ego based on how she became famous with Bombshell and maybe Ivy comes to ground her?

I agree put Ellis in jail for his attempt at murder and put more emphasis on broadway. I love the numbers they put together on the show and would like even more of that.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
That was a decent finale. One of the better episodes of the series, I'd say. I'm annoyed that Karen got the part, but it was obvious that it was going to be her just from looking at the first image in the OP. The show is really pushing for her to be this amazing star with an unmistakable "IT" factor, but it just isn't there. Ivy is better than Karen in virtually every way, (their voices are different enough that I'd say they're both equals in that department) and I'm annoyed that no one on the show can see it.

I'm glad Ellis was fired. What a fucking psycho. He'll obviously be back, probably as a super villain, although if the writers have learned anything from the fan/critical reaction they should just send him to jail and wash their hands of him.

Will Chase (Michael) is dating Debra Messing. Shit, I hope that doesn't mean they're going to push for more romance affair bullshit.

Every interview with the cast/crew that I've read so far seems to indicate that season 2 will be quite different from season 1, so here's hoping that it's true. It's in dire need of a overhaul.

I agree with many points in that Robert Bianco piece, but especially:

More Broadway, less pop. Last we looked, this was a show about Broadway. So let the characters express themselves through numbers written for musicals (which are better designed to carry plot and develop character anyway) and leave the pop covers to Glee, which does them better. And never, ever stage a number in a bowling alley again.
Click to expand...

YES. A thousand times yes. The original songs are genuinely good and I want more of them. I'm actually tempted to buy the soundtrack, which is something I usually never do. That final song was especially good. Bravo to the composers Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman.
 
K

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
RatskyWatsky said:
YES. A thousand times yes. The original songs are genuinely good and I want more of them. I'm actually tempted to buy the soundtrack, which is something I usually never do. That final song was especially good. Bravo to the composers Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman.
Click to expand...
If you're just interested in the original songs, don't pickup the soundtrack it's missing several of the original numbers. Off the top of my head the finale song, Don't Say Yes Until I Finish Talking, I Never Met A Wolf Who Didn't Love To Howl, and Second Hand White Baby Grand are all missing from the soundtrack and only available as singles.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Killthee said:
If you're just interested in the original songs, don't pickup the soundtrack it's missing several of the original numbers. Off the top of my head the finale song, Don't Say Yes Until I Finish Talking, I Never Met A Wolf Who Didn't Love To Howl, and Second Hand White Baby Grand are all missing from the soundtrack and only available as singles.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to buy the singles then.
 
R

royalan

Member
Just caught up on the finale.

Hated it.

Look, outside of a few of her theater credits, I didn't go into this show "stanning" for Megan Hilty. Nor did I go into this show with a predisposition for rooting for the villain.

But here's the thing: when the majority of your audience (check tumblr and MOST of the professional reviews) is rooting for your VILLAIN, you have failed to tell your story in a fundamental way.

To put it simply, Karen Cartwright is a terrible stock character. She has no defining personality and, worse, she has no agency. EVERYTHING happens around her. The writers need the audience to want her to get the part? Turn Ivy into a raving psycho bitch. Want to make room for the obvious-from-several-miles-away Karen/Derek pairing? Turn Dev from the loving, doting boyfriend into to the selfish cheater. Hardly ANYTHING that has happened to Karen this season has been the result of her own actions. No - she just stands there, "perfect", while being ushered through the story by more capable characters played by more capable actors. The result being that it's hard to not look at HER as the villain.

When Karen was rehearsing "Never Met a Wolf" and Ivy was watching, I didn't feel happy for Karen. I felt BAD for IVY. Ivy, as imperfect as she is, nevertheless put her heart into the theater and into this show, and this read to the audience through the many times we SAW her stumble; through the interactions with her mother, already the star that she wants to be. As much as the writers want Ivy to be the villain, they failed by making her too relatable, and by making Karen too "perfect" (and not casting an actor talented enough to portray that perfection in a naive-but-flawed way).

Of course there were other flaws with the season - being too obvious with the plot, too soapy, etc. But ultimately the absolute failure of Karen Cartwright and the total rape of Ivy Lynn was top on my list of offenses by what COULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT SHOW.

I'll end with a quote by one of my favorite reviewers of this show:

Karen’s fine for the chorus. She’s maybe even fine singing in orange juice commercials. But the only time in this entire season that she’s appeared remotely sexy is for a few seconds in this episode, when she storms exasperatedly onto the stage in her underthings to complain about the rushed costume change. It’s such a disarmingly human moment, and there haven’t been enough of those involving Karen Cartwright. She’s just hasn’t shown enough nuance.

And she’s not Marilyn Monroe. If she’s Derek’s “vision” of Marilyn, then he’s in the process of neutralizing the enduring power of an American icon. The creators of Bombshell wanted to mount a show about a woman. Instead, they’re fading in on a girl.
Click to expand...
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
I will say what I mentioned very early in this thread -- they're both Marilyn.

Casting Karen as Norma Jean, fresh off the bus, "fade in on a girl" would have been okay.

But then have a transformative moment, when you switch from Karen to Ivy, as Norma Jean becomes Marilyn.

That last song would work as a duet between them.


I really thought that was where they were headed with this. Even in the finale, when Derek is envisioning them both in his head, I thought the writers would get it.

I also thought it would have made a better show -- why have one star when you can have two?
 
D

Delio

Member
AngmarsKing701 said:
I will say what I mentioned very early in this thread -- they're both Marilyn.

Casting Karen as Norma Jean, fresh off the bus, "fade in on a girl" would have been okay.

But then have a transformative moment, when you switch from Karen to Ivy, as Norma Jean becomes Marilyn.

That last song would work as a duet between them.


I really thought that was where they were headed with this. Even in the finale, when Derek is envisioning them both in his head, I thought the writers would get it.

I also thought it would have made a better show -- why have one star when you can have two?
Click to expand...

Yup I agree fully. When Derek was having the visions I was like "yay both will be a star." I really dont know why the show didn't go this way.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
It didn't really seem like the show was evenly split between Norma Jean and Marilyn. At least of all the songs we saw, she was already Marilyn.

What I'm wondering is why can't they do a double-bill? Or does that not happen on Broadway?
 
R

royalan

Member
AngmarsKing701 said:
I will say what I mentioned very early in this thread -- they're both Marilyn.

Casting Karen as Norma Jean, fresh off the bus, "fade in on a girl" would have been okay.

But then have a transformative moment, when you switch from Karen to Ivy, as Norma Jean becomes Marilyn.

That last song would work as a duet between them.


I really thought that was where they were headed with this. Even in the finale, when Derek is envisioning them both in his head, I thought the writers would get it.

I also thought it would have made a better show -- why have one star when you can have two?
Click to expand...

See, I do agree that having them both play the different phases of Marilyn would be a much better idea than trying to convince people that Karen deserves the part whole-hog, but the one thing I don't like about that is the persistent idea the show has that Norma Jean was this innocent, faultless girl who had no idea that she was sexy. Whenever Derek thinks of Karen as Marilyn, that's all he harps on. To quote One Direction: "You don't know you're beautiful. That's what makes you beautiful." That is the male fantasy Marilyn, but in reality that's not who she was. She entered the industry young - yes. Naive - of course. But Norma was always very aware that she was a sexy woman (due in large part to her incredibly fucked-up childhood). More to the point, Norma also knew that if she was sexy and incredibly fucking stupid men would give her whatever the fuck she wanted.

I just don't think Katherine McPhee has the capability to play that level of nuance. Her Marilyn (Norma Jean) would be a completely flat woman (in form and function) that fame just sort of happens to.

Nor does McPhee have a Broadway-caliber voice. At first I thought having McPhee relegated to auto-tuned Top 40 covers was Smash's attempt to encroach on Glee's iTunes sales. But as the season wore on it became more obvious that it was also an attempt to disguise the fact that McPhee just doesn't have the chops to do Big Broadway. I mean, does anybody really think Katherine could pull off Let's Be Bad? STILL the show's highlight as far as musical numbers go. Second Hand White Baby Grand a close second.

If they want Smash to work better next season, they need to work on McPhee (because she is not bringing anything to the party currently), and they need to rework Karen Cartwright into a character with some actual depth. Nobody with the ambition to lead a Broadway musical is as nice and guiltless as Karen is. Hell, nobody on this planet is a nice and guiltless as Karen is. Everyone is guilty of a bad thought or intention at some point in their lives. Sometimes people choose to be self-serving rather than selfless, and that doesn't make you a bad person. Get that, Smash writers - because right now your "Star" is completely unbelievable and absolutely boring. Even Glee's Rachel Berry (that show's "Star") has flaws and is guilty of being incredibly selfish - to the point of sometimes sabotaging herself and those around her.

I said this to my roommate and he agreed: Karen Cartwright would be have been a much, much more interesting character if, for all her goodness and small-town morals, in a moment of desperation she actually did sleep with Derek for the part that night, still didn't get the part, and had to play out the entire season with the weight of that action. Yeah, she would have been a little less perfect, but a hell of a lot more intriguing. A missed opportunity.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Link

TVLine has confirmed that polarizing (and by polarizing, we mean absolutely intolerable) characters Ellis and Dev won’t be a regular presence when Smash returns to NBC for its second season sometime in 2013.

No decision has been made whether or not Ellis and Dev’s portrayers, Jaime Cepero and Raza Jaffrey, will return to wrap up their characters’ story arcs.

A show insider tells TVLine that two more actors — Brian D’Arcy James, a series regular as Frank, the hubby of Debra Messing’s Julia, and Will Chase, who recurred as Julia’s sometimes lover Michael Swift, are also exiting in Season 2.
Click to expand...

Thank. Fuck.

Now they just need to get rid of Julia's stupid son.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Only one I'm disappointed about is Frank. Not like the show really used his talents though.
 
L

lenovox1

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Trying to find info on why Rebeck is gone.
Click to expand...

From Deadline articles, a blog post from one of Theresa's friends on IndieWire, and "gossip" of the Internet kind, she was pushed out because NBC didn't like the direction the show was going in.

But if you're worried about her, don't be. She's always writting new projects/has new things lined up for the stage.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
I'll miss Raza's hotness, but they really ran his character into the ground. They could of redeemed him I think, but it's probably for the best.

I think the other three cuts are all good decisions. (Not that I'm implying anything about the actors' talents, just their characters.)
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
lenovox1 said:
From Deadline articles, a blog post from one of Theresa's friends on IndieWire, and "gossip" of the Internet kind, she was pushed out because NBC didn't like the direction the show was going in.
Click to expand...

That cool be good or bad, considering that the show at the finale was furthest it could be from the pilot.

What, they want to make it Glee?
 
L

lenovox1

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
What, they want to make it Glee?
Click to expand...

They brought in the Gossip Girl guys, the characters for the three new roles they're casting for are in their mid-twenties, and the quote I remember from one of those articles was that the show was getting "too soapy."

I don't think they'll be going for a "Glee but with adults" thing, but all signs point to this show becoming lighter in tone and aimed at a younger audience.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Jennifer Hudson Gets Smash'd, Joins Season 2 Cast For Multi-Episode Arc

Smash is introducing you to another American Idol alum: Jennifer Hudson.

The Oscar and Grammy winner has signed on to appear in multiple episodes of the NBC musical drama’s upcoming second season.

She’ll play Veronica, a Tony-winning Broadway star who impacts the lives of Karen (Katharine McPhee) and Ivy (Megan Hilty).

“We’re thrilled to have Jennifer Hudson coming to Smash,” said NBC Chairman Robert Greenblatt. “This series is a showcase for some of the best musical talent in the business and that’s a fitting description for Jennifer Hudson. Her character will represent someone who reached their Broadway dream but also paid a price for it.”

Added Smash EP (and Hudson’s Dreamgirls boss) Steven Spielberg: “I have no doubt Jennifer will continue to deliver even more inspiration to the audience responsible for giving us a second season on NBC.”

Hudson will debut in Smash‘s second season premiere in early 2013.
Click to expand...
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Sean Hayes joins the cast of season 2!

Yusss Will and Grace reunion!

Hayes will play Terrence Falls, a comedic television and film star who is making his Broadway debut in the musical Liaisons, based on the novel Les Liaisons Dangereuses. Due to a series of comic circumstances, he becomes a major thorn in the side for Ivy Lynn (Megan Hilty) and other characters (one of whom, presumably, will be Messing’s Julia).
Click to expand...
 
R

royalan

Member
Sheryl Lee Ralph joining the cast of season 2!

Tony nominee Sheryl Lee Ralph will play Jennifer Hudson’s mother Cynthia on the second season of Smash, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Ralph was nominated for a 1982 Tony Award for creating the role of Deena Jones in the original Broadway production of Dreamgirls, and Hudson won an Oscar for her portrayal of Effie White in the film adaptation of the musical. Filming for the second season of Smash is underway, but no premiere date has been announced.
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Source

I mean, as much of a Hot Ass Mess as last season was, I still planned to tune in. But this interesting casting has definitely got me excited for next season.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Liza Minneli Is Headed To 'Smash'

“Liza Minnelli is the essence of a multi-talented, singular show business sensation, particularly for her extraordinary contributions to Broadway,” entertainment chairman Robert Greenblatt said in a statement. “So what could be more fitting than to have her legendary talent on a show that celebrates a world Liza has dazzled for decades? I had the pleasure of working with Liza when we restored her landmark television special ‘Liza With a Z’ at Showtime, and to see her artistry up close and personal is a thing to behold.”
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Sean Hayes, Jennifer Hudson, Sheryl Lee Ralph, LIZA?! lawd
 
R

royalan

Member
LIZA!?!? Damn, next season is either going to be great or a GLORIOUS mess!

But I think it's fairly safe to rule out boring.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
uTZvY.jpg
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Cool poster. Nice to see that Ellis is really gone.
 
K

Kyon

Banned
SEASON 2 EPISODE 1 UP ON ITUNES NOOOOW! I'm guessing an early showing again just like the 1st episode season 1. Yesss Downloading now, that new Season 2 trailer looks STUNNING. All the changes and people getting AXED. This is what te show was meant to be


Oh it's the first half of the new episode which is 2 hours I think?
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Kyon said:
Dhduehdjsbesnfb


The first half. The show has DEFINITELY improved. I'm loving everything
Click to expand...

I'm not watching until the official premiere, so spill the deets yo. What are the improvements? How many times does Anjelica Huston throw a martini in someone's face?
 
K

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
RatskyWatsky said:
I'm not watching until the official premiere, so spill the deets yo. What are the improvements? How many times does Anjelica Huston throw a martini in someone's face?
Click to expand...
I'm gonna cut someone if the new showrunner kills that too.
 
R

royalan

Member
Kyon said:
Dhduehdjsbesnfb


The first half. The show has DEFINITELY improved. I'm loving everything
Click to expand...

SIS!

Sorry it's taken me so long! Watching NOW.

EDIT: Not even 10 minutes in and I'm CACKLING at how they've cut the DEAD WEIGHT.

EDIT2: 12 minutes in and JHud is SLAYING me...but Karen/Katherine is still incredibly annoying. Katherine McPhee is really the WORST person they could have chosen to play this role. She is AWFUL. But I'm gonna try and keep it cute.

EDIT3: I am so sick of the whole "Karen walks into the room and heals everything with her awesomeness" schtick. This show has a fundamental problem in how much weight they put on Katherine's character and I'm starting to feel they haven't learned their lesson.

EDIT4: 32 minutes in...and they are not kidding with all these plots they're throwing into this season.
Oh no! Bombshell is under investigation!
This is getting so soapy...but I'm still kinda into it.

EDIT5: 33 minutes in...
"Maybe you should just stay here! It'll be like old times - or a sitcom." HAHA! They are going full "Will and Grace" with Julia and Tom and I am NOT mad at it. Their interactions have consistently been my favorite on the show. As long as the writers don't go overboard with the idea this should be a good move for the season.

EDIT6: And I see we've been
introduced to the male Karen. This is Broadway! The community is filled with amazing singers and performers. You've gotta give me more of a reason to root for a character than "Dey sing dat song gud." Karen calling Derek and holding her phone up has to be the corniest thing I've seen on TV since...well, Smash season 1. Yet more proof that every storyline Karen touches turns to shit.

EDIT7: I will be purchasing Ivy/Megan's version of
Don't Dream It's Over
as soon as it's available. That was beautiful...
 
K

Kyon

Banned
#Crie

I agree with everything you said. You are a GIFT sis. ;__;

Especially the Karen BS. But I guess she is too major to cut.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Ellis Poised to Return!

Jaime Cepero will reprise his polarizing role of Ellis, the ruthless and scheming former assistant to Tom and (later) Eileen, during the show’s upcoming second season.
But wait – the plot thickens.

New Smash showrunner Josh Safran cryptically tells TVLine that, “Ellis may return, but not necessarily in the present.”
Click to expand...


Noooooo
 
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