[Baconsammy]

If you think any of the judges are actually saying what they think with any sort of knowledge and not just playing the show, you're an idiot. She belts correctly for all the reasons Mumei just gave you. Idiots said Adam screamed too.

I said none of the judges say anything useful. Jimmy is the only one that does, but if you want to claim Jimmy Iovine doesn't know what he's talking about, you're free to make that incredibly misguided assertion.

[krypt0nian]

I said none of the judges say anything useful. Jimmy is the only one that does, but if you want to claim Jimmy Iovine doesn't know what he's talking about, you're free to make that incredibly misguided assertion.

Fuck that. You're the one saying Skyler shouts/screams when she factually doesn't. No opinion needed. She is belting correctly. I don't trust anyone n the show to speak their true minds. It's all for the show. Them praising P2 proves that.

Every season without fail some dumbass comes in the thread thinking he knows how to sing properly and does this. You're just the one for this thread.

[Baconsammy]

Fuck that. You're the one saying Skyler shouts/screams when she factually doesn't. No opinion needed. She is belting correctly. I don't trust anyone n the show to speak their true minds. It's all for the show. Them praising P2 proves that. Every season without fail some dumbass comes in the thread thinking he knows how to sing properly and does this. You're just the one for this thread.

Name-calling, that's quite mature of you. What pray tell does "belting correctly" actually mean anyway? Since you're accusing me of being a dumbass that doesn't know how to sing, perhaps you can fill me in. I only grew up with a mother who taught me classical guitar, piano and was herself a vocal coach. But yeah, I'm clueless about music. I do know the difference between Adam screaming by design and Skylar attempting to "belt correctly" but screaming her notes instead. If you can point me to examples of Jimmy lying for the sake of the show, I'd like to hear that, because if my memory serves me correctly, he said Phillip should be bottom two last night because his singing was terrible. He also correctly noted Skylars mistakes. But it's your opinion that Jimmy is tossing away his decades of credibility for the sake of a singing competition. Why would he be doing that exactly? For money? The dude is loaded already.

[Mumei]

What pray tell does "belting correctly" actually mean anyway?

This is a good explanation, with examples of different types of placement (resonating in the mask, resonating in the head, or mixing (creating an even blend of chest / head tones) and examples of singers doing specific things wrong (uneven mixes with too much head or too much chest tones; attempting outside of one's range; supporting notes from the throat; resonating in the nasal cavities, failure to maintain a neutral (or even slightly lowered when going for a high note) larynx, etc.) and things that can go wrong (loss of power, loss of tone, loss of resonance, more difficulty sustaining notes, cracking, and simply long term vocal damage). There's not only one correct way of belting a note (e.g. Whitney resonating in the mask, Mariah resonating in the head, and Aretha mixing are all correct ways of belting a G5), but there are some things that are simply incorrect.

I'm not going to pretend that Skylar's belts are perfect, because they obviously aren't. But she generally placed them well, had good resonance, and I at least couldn't hear any obvious signs of strain. Hollie and Jessica both had problems with belting specifically that she was not having.

Since you're accusing me of being a dumbass that doesn't know how to sing, perhaps you can fill me in. I only grew up with a mother who taught me classical guitar, piano and was herself a vocal coach. But yeah, I'm clueless about music. I do know the difference between Adam screaming by design and Skylar attempting to "belt correctly" but screaming her notes instead.

Well, that's just it. Adam was not screaming by design. He was mixing in order to get to those high notes; he just happens to have a tone that sounds a bit scream-y. He did display some strain, but that's unavoidable when men go as high as he was going. You're not going to hear truly effortless sounding high fifth octave notes from men. But his vocal production was technically correct.

If you can point me to examples of Jimmy lying for the sake of the show, I'd like to hear that, because if my memory serves me correctly, he said Phillip should be bottom two last night because his singing was terrible. He also correctly noted Skylars mistakes. But it's your opinion that Jimmy is tossing away his decades of credibility for the sake of a singing competition. Why would he be doing that exactly? For money? The dude is loaded already.

I don't think it is necessary to claim that he was lying; just that while he has often said things that are spot on, he sometimes also says things that are completely asinine. I don't really care whether he's lying or just wrong. I just think that given the judging tables' history of lying that I would not put it past Jimmy to be less than honest either.

But for the record, he's not tossing away credibility if hardly anyone is able to recognize when he's wrong about some technical comment.

[Baconsammy]

Adam "screaming by design" wasn't intended to mean he's simply screaming. That's how he reaches his big notes. It's by design. Completely. The difference between Hollie and Skylar is that Hollie (and I guess Jessica as well) is that Hollie stays on pitch and continues to sing even when she's not "belting" with full power. Skylar's problem is either she simply can't sing big notes with any consistency, or she lacks confidence, so when she gets to those notes, she screams instead of sings, and it's very noticeable, and it sounds terrible. It's a crutch. Katy Perry does it all the time live. Her second song the other night was atrocious. I remember earlier in the season when the volleyball player (I think her name was Shannon) attempted to sing her big notes and she just lost it. She would have stood a better chance following the Skylar method of screaming the notes instead. She would have appeared to have been on pitch at least. It would have sounded as bad as Skylar, but it wouldnt have sounded like the trainwreck it turned out to be. And that's the risk Hollie and Jessica run each week - failing to sing their big notes, whereas Skylar "cheats". With a lot of coaching, I'm sure she can gain the confidence to stop doing that, but I dont think her voice is unique and interesting enough to make it big. To me she sounds like a low-rent Reba.

You clearly know a lot about vocal performance, and I respect your opinions and knowledge. I have zero respect for people that call others "dumbass", claim to be knowledgeable about something but can't seem to offer an intelligent opinion outside of an insult.

I appreciate you treating this like an actual conversation. I respect your opinion, and I wouldnt mind hearing which of the singers you feel is going to have a future in the business.


From Entertainment Weekly about Phillips gum (this is why the guys win this show so much):

Oh, and for those wondering what happened to the gum Ryan Seacrest confiscated from Phillip Phillips and unsuccessfully tried to lob at Jimmy for suggesting that the purdy pawn-shop troubadour deserved to be eliminated, Seacrest bent down on one knee, ripped off the gum side of the results card and gave it to one so-excited-she-was-vibrating teen at the foot of the stage, instantly making her the envy of the cheer group she came with.


And the complete idiocy of Randy calling this final 5 the best. Ugh. Would you take these 5 or would you want:
Elliot Yamin
Chris Daughtry
Taylor Hicks
Katherine McPhee
Paris Bennett

[VICTORsaurio]

My thoughts while watching the show:

THE 60s
Hollie:
- WOW! Hollie killed it! LOVED IT! GO HOLLIE!
- OMG! The judges are being nice to her. I thought she deserved a standing ovation though

Phillip:
- I love Jimmy, I'm glad he's not as useless as the Judges
- Skipped the performance by my BFs request, I'm sure I didn't miss anything
- I hate when the judges say "Phillip Phillips'd". It's not an actual word and they should stop using it.

Skylar:
- She was very fun to watch, though I wish I knew the song. She's so full of life, sad to know she's gone :'(

Jessica:
- I loved the beginning but I felt like she was shouting during the rest of the song but it's probably the way that song should be sung. She was fierce though.

Joshua:
- I hate how he sings and the songs he chooses but I can't deny he's very good at it. Just a bit cliché

BRIT POP:
Hollie:
- WOW!!!! She did an excellent rendition of that song. I was slightly dissapointed by how she changed the big note where it goes "I will wear these scars..." but I guess she wanted to make it her own and she nailed the final big note anyway!

Phillip:
- I'm glad I watched this one (while the BF went to his PC) because he was SO BAD ON THOSE HIGH NOTES! It was so painfully awesome to watch
- WHAT THE FUCK!!!!! THE JUDGES ARE ACTUALLY PRAISING HIM FOR THIS PIECE OF CRAP???? I'M DONE WITH IDOL!!!! (not really but maybe I should be)

Skylar:
- Once again, I didn't really know the song. I thought it was pretty nice though.

Jessica:
- Much better than before! So beautiful! Those high notes gave me chills, even though I thought she kinda went a bit off-key on the last one.

Joshua:
- Didn't really pay attention to this one since it was the last song, I didn't know it and I don't really like him

[krypt0nian]

This is a good explanation, with examples of different types of placement (resonating in the mask, resonating in the head, or mixing (creating an even blend of chest / head tones) and examples of singers doing specific things wrong (uneven mixes with too much head or too much chest tones; attempting outside of one's range; supporting notes from the throat; resonating in the nasal cavities, failure to maintain a neutral (or even slightly lowered when going for a high note) larynx, etc.) and things that can go wrong (loss of power, loss of tone, loss of resonance, more difficulty sustaining notes, cracking, and simply long term vocal damage). There's not only one correct way of belting a note (e.g. Whitney resonating in the mask, Mariah resonating in the head, and Aretha mixing are all correct ways of belting a G5), but there are some things that are simply incorrect. I'm not going to pretend that Skylar's belts are perfect, because they obviously aren't. But she generally placed them well, had good resonance, and I at least couldn't hear any obvious signs of strain. Hollie and Jessica both had problems with belting specifically that she was not having. Well, that's just it. Adam was not screaming by design. He was mixing in order to get to those high notes; he just happens to have a tone that sounds a bit scream-y. He did display some strain, but that's unavoidable when men go as high as he was going. You're not going to hear truly effortless sounding high fifth octave notes from men. But his vocal production was technically correct. I don't think it is necessary to claim that he was lying; just that while he has often said things that are spot on, he sometimes also says things that are completely asinine. I don't really care whether he's lying or just wrong. I just think that given the judging tables' history of lying that I would not put it past Jimmy to be less than honest either. But for the record, he's not tossing away credibility if hardly anyone is able to recognize when he's wrong about some technical comment.

You have far more patience than I do. I'm tired of explaining basics to people every fucking season.

[Mumei]

Adam "screaming by design" wasn't intended to mean he's simply screaming. That's how he reaches his big notes. It's by design. Completely.

Ah.

It's just that when you say screaming (even "by design"), I think of the vocal production of "screaming" which is not the same as the vocal production of mixing. I'll just assume you're talking about the same thing but calling it something different.

The difference between Hollie and Skylar is that Hollie (and I guess Jessica as well) is that Hollie stays on pitch and continues to sing even when she's not "belting" with full power.

That is simply untrue, though.

You're either misremembering or just not listening for it, because that's pretty much the exact opposite of what's happening. Listen to Hollie in this song again. She's flat, flat, flatter than flat, especially in the beginning, and the problem continues throughout the performance. And she's like that in many of her performances - unsupported and flat on any note that is supposed to be sung at a low volume or on lower notes or on head voice notes (as you surely can hear when she attempts a couple of those at the beginning of that song. And yes, she even has pitch problems on the big sustained belts as well. I don't know how you can say that, since pitch problems have been Hollie's biggest issue.

Skylar's problem is either she simply can't sing big notes with any consistency, or she lacks confidence, so when she gets to those notes, she screams instead of sings, and it's very noticeable, and it sounds terrible. It's a crutch.

That's not true, though. This is not screaming. Neither is this.

Katy Perry does it all the time live. Her second song the other night was atrocious. I remember earlier in the season when the volleyball player (I think her name was Shannon) attempted to sing her big notes and she just lost it. She would have stood a better chance following the Skylar method of screaming the notes instead. She would have appeared to have been on pitch at least. It would have sounded as bad as Skylar, but it wouldnt have sounded like the trainwreck it turned out to be. And that's the risk Hollie and Jessica run each week - failing to sing their big notes, whereas Skylar "cheats". With a lot of coaching, I'm sure she can gain the confidence to stop doing that, but I dont think her voice is unique and interesting enough to make it big. To me she sounds like a low-rent Reba.

While her second song was atrocious compared to the original (Dusty, *swoon*), and certainly weaker than the above examples I linked to, I didn't think her belts were atrocious. Tired sounding, yes.

And how does Skylar cheat? She's producing the notes correctly; she's not screaming to hit them. She wouldn't sound as controlled and she wouldn't have the same resonance or vibrato if she were shouting or screaming to hit her notes.

You clearly know a lot about vocal performance, and I respect your opinions and knowledge. I have zero respect for people that call others "dumbass", claim to be knowledgeable about something but can't seem to offer an intelligent opinion outside of an insult.

... He can, he's just got no patience. He's more knowledgeable than I am, at any rate.

I appreciate you treating this like an actual conversation. I respect your opinion, and I wouldnt mind hearing which of the singers you feel is going to have a future in the business.

After witnessing this girl become the most successful singles artist of her generation, I've given up on figuring out who has a future.

Edit: See, I told you he has no patience. He admits it.

[Baconsammy]

Pitch on the "money" notes is NOT Hollie's problem. Passion, conviction, and as you pointed out - flat on the low notes was her problem. Hasn't been a problem for a few performances, but the damage was done weeks ago and now despite singing better than anyone else, she's bottom 2/3 every week. Haley suffered a similar fate last year. It's odd considering how terrible Jessica's been on low notes as well, and a complete trainwreck on nearly every single group number. But Jessica has the benefit of every judge constantly reminding America of how "SHES ONE OF THE BEST SINGERS IN AMERICA, YO!". That's quite an advantage to have. Again, reminds of Haley blowing everyone away and the idiot judges giving her shit while at the same time felating Scottie McShitty.

I love Jimmy's honesty. He knows what this show has become (little girls voting for cute boys). I wish they'd dump the useless judges and replace them with competent folks. Harry Connick Jr for one. But as long as Nigel is running the show, it won't happen. They're getting exactly what they want (although less and less of it with each passing week it seems).

As for the insulter, I don't think he has no patience. I think he/she has no knowledge, so when called on something he/she resorts to insults. No big loss.

[Delio]

Oh you guys are lovely.

[Baconsammy]

After witnessing this girl become the most successful singles artist of her generation, I've given up on figuring out who has a future.

I go into each season hoping a gem will be produced. I don't see one this year. The last time one of these shows produced one (to me) was her.

[AngmarsKing701]

Good Lord, just saw a commercial for "duets" this summer on ABC.

Do we really need, and can we even sustain, ANOTHER freakin' singing competition?

[JCX]

Good Lord, just saw a commercial for "duets" this summer on ABC. Do we really need, and can we even sustain, ANOTHER freakin' singing competition?

There has never been a better time to be an undiscovered singer in America. I expect duets to be the beginning of the music competition bust. Only fitting that Kelly be there at the beginning and the end.

On a way different note, do you all think Bo could have beat Carrie if instruments were allowed back then?

[sphinx]

Proper belting is always recognizable, singers, all of them mix between belting properly or downright screaming, depending what they want to achieve, the song, the day, the hour of the day, the mood and everything, no one is a "forever belting"

Example:

Katharine Mcphee 2006, live, the last high note in 3:19, that's the best example of belting I can come up with.


the same song during the competition, the same note in 3:09 the tone is poorly sustained in comparison, no belting.

[MIMIC]

On a way different note, do you all think Bo could have beat Carrie if instruments were allowed back then?

Interesting question. It's possible that he could have won since instruments seems to always enhance a singer's performance. And add that to the fact that Bo is said to have lost by only a few hundred votes.

[Baconsammy]

Good Lord, just saw a commercial for "duets" this summer on ABC. Do we really need, and can we even sustain, ANOTHER freakin' singing competition?

I gained at least a little interest once Lionel left and John Legend stepped in.

[Mumei]

Proper belting is always recognizable, singers, all of them mix between belting properly or downright screaming, depending what they want to achieve, the song, the day, the hour of the day, the mood and everything, no one is a "forever belting"

I don't think that's (necessarily) the case. Some singers are in styles where some screaminess is appropriate (and you'll hear it in some / most / all of their belts), but some singers actually do try to do it correctly each time. I don't think you'll find more than a handful of screamed notes from Whitney between 1985 and 1991, for instance.

Example: Katharine Mcphee 2006, live, the last high note in 3:19, that's the best example of belting I can come up with. the same song during the competition, the same note in 3:09 the tone is poorly sustained in comparison, no belting.

Neither one was that great as an example of belting, but ... what did you think was so bad about the second? It was sustained about as long (and actually had some vibrato at the end of it, unlike the first one). It didn't seem to have quite the same volume as the other one, but that's about it. But since I don't think either one is particular amazing, I don't think the contrast works as well.

Also, I don't know if you didn't know, but you can add "#t=#m#s" to the link to take someone directly to the part you're talking about.

For me, this belt is pretty much textbook. So is this, and even more powerful. They're both very powerful, resonant and sustained belts.

By contrast, here's an awful example by Jessica Simpson (hitting the same note they were).

Pitch on the "money" notes is NOT Hollie's problem. Passion, conviction, and as you pointed out - flat on the low notes was her problem. Hasn't been a problem for a few performances, but the damage was done weeks ago and now despite singing better than anyone else, she's bottom 2/3 every week.

I heard pitch problems even on some of her sustained belts (it was something that made them irritating; what's the point of holding out a note like that if you aren't on it?), but I'll cop to not having anything better than decent-ish relative pitch with regards to belts (and if I have some sort of identifiable frame of reference).

And I still didn't think she was singing better than Skylar. She had a bigger voice, probably. She didn't have a better lower register (they were both mediocre, but I don't remember Skylar having the sort of flat-the-entire-time pitch problems Hollie was having), she didn't have better belts (bigger voice, yes; better technique, no), etc.

[Baconsammy]

And I still didn't think she was singing better than Skylar. She had a bigger voice, probably. She didn't have a better lower register (they were both mediocre, but I don't remember Skylar having the sort of flat-the-entire-time pitch problems Hollie was having), she didn't have better belts (bigger voice, yes; better technique, no), etc.

Listening to them live and then pre-recorded, I dont think there's any doubt that Hollie is an infinitely better singer than Skylar. Not even remotely close to me. Also no doubt that Skylar is an infinitely better performer than Hollie. Skylar needs a ton of help in the studio if she's going to amount to anything. The stuff I've heard of her so far is really embarrassing. Could just be the result of rushed production or shitty producers. She sounds like a low-rent Reba. The studio versions of Hollie were able to boost those low notes you have a problem with, but they were unable to mask Skylar's less than stellar vocals. Hell, the pre-recorded tracks even fixed Phillips lousy 2nd song from the other night. Miracle workers.

[sphinx]

Opinion

I really don't think the video from Mariah you gave is "the" textbook belting passage of the decade. It's is a good example but not better or worse than Macphee's last tone in that gala. Those videos are good for comparative purposes, it ilustrates the difference between an open (almost screamed), unsustained, even pitchy tone (Macphee in the competition) and a rich, full, sustained powerful and stable tone (Macphee live in 2006), by the same person with the same song

Belting is just using your diapraghm properly in order to give your tone stability and a "body", sorry this is the one topic I can't express myself properly in english, it's hard to explain so I'll leave it there.

and sorry, didn't know about the minute/seconds thing in youtube.

[BigDug13]

I still think Clarkson was one of the best belters that came from the show. She didn't perform at her best "during" the show's run, but she has done some incredible vocals during her career since. Personally think her best vocals were around the "Since You've Been Gone" popularity days. Her "unplugged" type and other live performances have sounded incredible. She rarely goes into head singing and attempts to keep everything in her true range.

Singers like Christina Aguilera that always go between head singing and belting really annoy me. She's good at runs, but her range just is not at the same level as more recent talent. Not sure that Christina Aguilera would be capable of winning AI with just her vocals.

[Baconsammy]

I still think Clarkson was one of the best belters that came from the show. She didn't perform at her best "during" the show's run, but she has done some incredible vocals during her career since. Personally think her best vocals were around the "Since You've Been Gone" popularity days. Her "unplugged" type and other live performances have sounded incredible. She rarely goes into head singing and attempts to keep everything in her true range. Singers like Christina Aguilera that always go between head singing and belting really annoy me. She's good at runs, but her range just is not at the same level as more recent talent. Not sure that Christina Aguilera would be capable of winning AI with just her vocals.

Back when Idol was a singing competition, Christina would have owned it. Wouldn't have been close imo.

[Mumei]

I really don't think the video from Mariah you gave is "the" textbook belting passage of the decade. It's is a good example but not better or worse than Macphee's last tone in that gala. Those videos are good for comparative purposes, it ilustrates the difference between an open (almost screamed), unsustained, even pitchy tone (Macphee in the competition) and a rich, full, sustained powerful and stable tone (Macphee live in 2006), by the same person with the same song

Hm.

I'm assuming it was accidental (because you said this is a topic where you can't express yourself properly in English), but I did not say that the belt I linked to was "'the' text book belting passage of the decade" (especially since it happened 19 years ago!). I simply gave it as a better example of a belt that was textbook. By changing the words, you seem to be trying to arguing against an overzealous position that I'm not presenting.

And the contrast between those videos isn't nearly as powerful as the contrast between Mariah's (or Whitney's), which was a better belt than Katherine's - more powerful, more resonant, better projected, better placed, better supported, possessed a better ring - and between Jessica's note, which was sung with a high larynx, supported in the throat, and with a super tense jaw. The second note of Katherine's wasn't nearly as bad as that one.

It is sort of ridiculous to be sitting there saying that Katherine's note is as good as what Mariah (or implicitly, Whitney) did. That said, it wasn't really important that I chose those two belts as the point of contrast with the Jessica Simpson belt. Charging a dime a dozen for belts that are better than the 2006 belt you linked to would be highway robbery because they're so common. If those belts are the best you can come up with, you need to listen to more music, because that belt was barely average. I'm sort of stunned that someone is seriously arguing that that belt by Katherine MacPhee is that good.

Listening to them live and then pre-recorded, I dont think there's any doubt that Hollie is an infinitely better singer than Skylar. Not even remotely close to me. Also no doubt that Skylar is an infinitely better performer than Hollie. Skylar needs a ton of help in the studio if she's going to amount to anything. The stuff I've heard of her so far is really embarrassing. Could just be the result of rushed production or shitty producers. She sounds like a low-rent Reba. The studio versions of Hollie were able to boost those low notes you have a problem with, but they were unable to mask Skylar's less than stellar vocals. Hell, the pre-recorded tracks even fixed Phillips lousy 2nd song from the other night. Miracle workers.

I have more faith in live singing as a barometer of ability than I do of studio singing, generally speaking, and Skylar has been notably superior there. I didn't say live performer; I said live singer.

She might need help in the studio; I don't know (and frankly, don't care); that doesn't make her worse than Hollie. Some voices just don't record well. Perhaps she doesn't feel comfortable singing in studio and doesn't do as well. I don't really know why she doesn't sound as good in studio, but I do know that if a singer sounds better / worse live as compared to in studio, the live performance is usually more indicative of their off-the-cuff, one-take ability.

[Baconsammy]

I have more faith in live singing as a barometer of ability than I do of studio singing, generally speaking, and Skylar has been notably superior there. I didn't say live performer; I said live singer. She might need help in the studio; I don't know (and frankly, don't care); that doesn't make her worse than Hollie. Some voices just don't record well. Perhaps she doesn't feel comfortable singing in studio and doesn't do as well. I don't really know why she doesn't sound as good in studio, but I do know that if a singer sounds better / worse live as compared to in studio, the live performance is usually more indicative of their off-the-cuff, one-take ability.

She needs help live as well. She screams too much. My personal assessment of her is that she's a mediocre at best live singer, and Hollie is far superior to her. Personal taste and all that. When Hollie resorts to screaming and adding unnecessary affectations to her voice(twang) instead of just singing, I'll sway more to your side. I obviously think Hollie is better than Skylar (by a longshot), but I also find her completely unremarkable. To be honest, they've all been pretty unremarkable this season, which is why I died laughing when Randy called them the greatest final 5 ever. But let's face it, this hasn't been a singing competition in many years (if ever). It's a popularity contest.

[Mumei]

She needs help live as well. She screams too much. My personal assessment of her is that she's a mediocre at best live singer, and Hollie is far superior to her. Personal taste and all that. When Hollie resorts to screaming and adding unnecessary affectations to her voice(twang) instead of just singing, I'll sway more to your side.

But she doesn't scream. I'm tired of this. I keep putting up examples where she's not screaming and she's singing the notes and belting them with more resonance and a better ring than Hollie or Jessica ever have, and you keep responding with "yeah well she screams." Fine, then: Demonstrate it. The performances are right there on Youtube, so go ahead and find me what you mean by screamed attempts at belts and then find me examples of Hollie or Jessica with belts as resonant and well-placed as what Skylar was doing. I can't think that you're actually approaching this with honest intent if you aren't actually going to engage me with examples.

I'm already skeptical as it is about your knowledge when you were the one arguing that Hollie didn't have pitch problems even when not singing on full power, something that even a cursory listen to the majority of her performances would tell you is untrue - and is something that you backpedaled on when reminded of it (though you still stuck to the idea that her pitch on money notes is spot on). But you're still wrong about Skylar's belts being screamed and you've been presented with examples again and again where she wasn't. Your examples where she was screaming remain conspicuously absent.

[Baconsammy]

Your examples where she was screaming remain conspicuously absent.

No they're not. The 2nd song she sang last week, she screamed. Jimmy also noted it. And in order to provide other examples, I'd have to listen to her awful performances again. Not subjecting myself to that. For numerous weeks, Jimmy noted that the contest was between Jessica and Hollie. He knew who the best singers were, but your claim is that he's biased. I call bullshit on that. Provide proof he's being paid to be biased and you might sway me. I have nothing against Skylar other than she's an average-at-best singer on a show I'm watching. Hollie's an infinitely better singer. Just not a better performer at this point, although last week she outperformed and out-sang the lesser talented Skylar. I can agree to disagree with you and move on. Have a great rest of your weekend.

[krypt0nian]

smh

[Mumei]

No they're not. The 2nd song she sang last week, she screamed. Jimmy also noted it.

Where? Here's a link to the performance; tell me the time stamp.

And in order to provide other examples, I'd have to listen to her awful performances again. Not subjecting myself to that.

... Well if you're not going to put up, then I'm going to have to assume that you don't have anything.

For numerous weeks, Jimmy noted that the contest was between Jessica and Hollie. He knew who the best singers were, but your claim is that he's biased. I call bullshit on that. Provide proof he's being paid to be biased and you might sway me. I have nothing against Skylar other than she's an average-at-best singer on a show I'm watching. Hollie's an infinitely better singer. Just not a better performer at this point, although last week she outperformed and out-sang the lesser talented Skylar.

No, no, no, no, no.

My claim was not that he was 'biased.' My claim was that he was wrong. Those are two different claims and you're being dishonest by presenting a strawman like that and demanding that I prove a position I don't have.

So, to sum up:

You won't provide examples of what you're talking about.
Your only source is Jimmy's comments, because you're unwilling to find them in the songs.
You apparently think that Jimmy Iovine cannot be wrong about comments about singing and repeat whatever he says as gospel.
When challenged on something he says, you start flailing with disingenuous demands that I prove that he's biased or being paid to lie.

Given that the judges have been known to lie for I don't know how many seasons now, that we know that the producers try very hard to present narratives and put singers into archetypal boxes (e.g., the country girl, the belter, the diva, etc.) and we will hear nearly identical judging comments for the same performers week in and week out regardless of whether the performance deserved it (See incessant criticisms for Haley last year; see standing ovations for mediocre performances from Joshua this year), it is more than a bit naive for you to simply assume that Jimmy is coming into this process and is necessarily the voice of complete honesty and reason.

But I don't need to say that he's lying or being dishonest. He could be, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest given that richer and more successful people than him have sat on that show and lied through their teeth, but it isn't important that he's biased or compromised. It matters that he's wrong.

smh

I know, I know.

I try, and look what I receive.

[SecretMoblin]

[Satch]

smh

:lol you're a trip <3

[lenovox1]

[Skylar] needs help live as well. She screams too much.

I don't mean to talk out of turn, but Skylar's not a screamer. She's as much of a belter as any other person is. There's a pushed, forced, and sort of clipped sound associated with screaming that Skylar avoids in the performances I've heard of hers. She can also sustain notes and she's been able to get up into that belty area even after all her time in competition (something Jessica and Hollie have problems with). You can't do that when you're screaming.

I guess I'd call her a "fierce" belter more akin to Stephanie J. Block or Carrie Manolakos with an added nasally twang. (I don't think they're technically accurate examples, but they're the first two that came to mind)

If you wanted to use a pejorative to describe her, saying that she "yells" would be a bit more accurate because she's very loud and forward placed. But, granted, even that's not right.

But if I had money in this game (I don't), I put more importance on how well someone connects to what they're saying and opens their emotions up to the audience than how well you can place a note. That's probably why I've liked Joshua's performances the best. 'Cause I'd rather you be overly histrionic (if it's comes from a real place) than be cold like a block of ice or have no emotions at all.

[Baconsammy]

'Cause I'd rather you be overly histrionic (if it's comes from a real place) than be cold like a block of ice or have no emotions at all.

Or sing a song like Fortunate Son as if it were feel-good party anthem. That was embarrassing. Worse yet was Deandre's complete lack of understanding about what Only The Good Die Young was about. Hollie also appears to lack a connection with her songs. I'd say the same about Jessica, but I don't think she ever bothers to try to connect. She's like a singing robot. Joshua may sing in a manner that I hate, but you're right that he connects with the lyrics. Impressively so.

[Mumei]

If you wanted to use a pejorative to describe her, saying that she "yells" would be a bit more accurate because she's very loud and forward placed. But, granted, even that's not right.

Is this an example of the sort of thing you're talking about?

[lenovox1]

Is this an example of the sort of thing you're talking about?

Sure. That's as good of an example as any if you want to call her "yelly." But in her defense, I think that was an artistic choice meant to convey something like desperation ("believe MEEEEEEE!"). But something like that "Wind Beneath My Wings" is so well controlled and well done, that I'm surprised it came out the mouth of somebody as young as her.

[Mumei]

Sure. That's as good of an example as any if you want to call her "yelly." But in her defense, I think that was an artistic choice meant to convey something like desperation ("believe MEEEEEEE!").

Hooray!

Someone I can agree with. <3

I wasn't sure if it was an artistic choice or if her voice was just tired and she didn't do as well as she might have otherwise, though.

But something like that "Wind Beneath My Wings" is so well controlled and well done, that I'm surprised it came out the mouth of somebody as young as her.

Indeed. I don't know how anyone can listen to those belts at the end and say that she doesn't have the best belting technique of the three girls.

[JCX]

Top 4 song spoilers with my guesses next to them.

California Dreamin'

Have You Ever Seen the Rain - Jessica
Steal Away - Joshua
You Raise Me Up - Hollie
Faithfully - Phil

Song They Wish They Wrote:

And I Am Telling You - Jessica, probably with pimp spot, even though Joshua would do better with this.
I Can't Make You Love Me - Hollie
Volcano- Phil
It's A Man's Man's World - Joshua

Duets:

This Love: Phil and Hollie
Eternal Flame: Jessica and Joshua

[SecretMoblin]

Those duets are gonna be

I just will not be able to handle myself

[Baconsammy]

Whoever sings It's a Mans Mans Mans World has a high bar to hit after Juliet killed it on The Voice. Joshua is the only one of the remaining 4 that stands a chance. Hoping he nails it.

[Delio]

Watch Phil sing "This is a Man's Man's World" ;)

[Baconsammy]

Watch Phil sing "This is a Man's Man's World" ;)

Part of me is hoping for that. I love watching a nice big train wreck.

[06nbarnhill]

I now refuse to read this thread before I watch the show (I am west coast). You guys always wonk up my impressions with your delusions. Some days I think B- is as high as people in this thread can comprehend. I almost think people post their reviews without having ever watching the show considering how disconnected and repetitive they are. Its like everyone is so scared to change their opinions that they just go "Hrm Hollie....shes bad I hear....I am definitely not allowed to think she is good....B- then."

/endrant

I honestly thought Hollie slayed last week. Absolutely destroyed. She did RDMH far beyond what I thought she was capable of. Bleeding love was not AS good but was still easily one of the better performances of the night.

[Baconsammy]

I honestly thought Hollie slayed last week. Absolutely destroyed. She did RDMH far beyond what I thought she was capable of. Bleeding love was not AS good but was still easily one of the better performances of the night.

She did slay last week. She was far and away the best of the bunch last week.

[JCX]

A lot of people here believe the show is called "Whitney/mariah idol" I don't expect people like Jessica and Hollie to sing like Mariah and Whitney in their prime.

[Trigger]

I like nothing about this week's theme. Very weak.

[SecretMoblin]

The delusion is thinking that these performers are anywhere near as exceptional as we're told they are. I prefer to be realistic about their "talent" and revel in the entertainment the show provides.

[JCX]

The delusion is thinking that these performers are anywhere near as exceptional as we're told they are. I prefer to be realistic about their "talent" and revel in the entertainment the show provides.

I agree that praise is ridiculously out of sync with reality, but that is more of the judges' fault.

[Baconsammy]

The delusion is thinking that these performers are anywhere near as exceptional as we're told they are. I prefer to be realistic about their "talent" and revel in the entertainment the show provides.

When I say an act is good, I mean they're TV Singing Show Competition good. None of these people are naturally gifted performers/artists. Kelly Clarkson was one of the few people that was clearly different (while on the show). Some of them blossom afterwards, but Kelly did it on the show.

[Trigger]

I agree that praise is ridiculously out of sync with reality, but that is more of the judges' fault.

Truth. It also makes me more dismissive of the contestants in some weird way.

[MIMIC]

Song featuring artists from California or songs ABOUT California?

The fuck? How random.

[Trigger]

Oh god, Idol. Phil starting the night off rough.

[SecretMoblin]

can we ditch Phil and watch the sax player perform? please?