[royalan]

Yeah I can.... Scotty may have sold over a million albums but he has done squat on country radio. Really pathetic peaks for his songs on billboard charts. If David Archuleta is any indicator (had good album sales but little radio) then his popularity will fall off a cliff. Idol needs a star who sells albums, singles, concert tickets, and has radio play. None of the WGWG winners have done that long term. A couple have had one successful single/album then dissapeared.

It'll never never happen so long as idol producers treat the winner's post-Idol career as unnecessary side work.

[06nbarnhill]

It'll never never happen so long as idol producers treat the winner's post-Idol career as unnecessary side work.

Yup.

Its mostly the constants responsibility to push their career after Idol towards long term success. Like when Kelly Clarkson took control of her career during the Breakaway era.

[Baconsammy]

That's why it's hilarious when the judges demand that Jimmy hook these "winners" up with great tracks. As if the good shit they have is going to go to a singing competition winner/loser. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt Daughtry write his own stuff?

[UberTag]

Ban all instruments until the top 13/12, then give them one chance to use instruments during the finals, and if they make the finale, then another chance. Instruments have weakened the field overall.

I'm fine with instruments.
Just bar all WGs from coming out to perform WGs to hide behind.
Even instituting just that one rule would be a big improvement.

Jessica - She is a trained parrot that has been mimicking acts for years. She has talent no doubt but no individuality in her performances.

I like you... and I agree with this completely. She'd be an even worse winner than Double Phil truth be told.

[Baconsammy]

As if not having a guitar would mean Phil would be gone now. He'd just do that weird one leg shuffle thing he does week-in and week-out, and it would continue to make JLo moist, which apparently it's also doing to little girls and soccer moms. But still he's a huge step up over robots like Jessica, or twangy, yelling Reba wannabes like Skylar.

[06nbarnhill]

Maybe allow them to use any instrument but only once per season per instrument?

[royalan]

Yup. Its mostly the constants responsibility to push their career after Idol towards long term success. Like when Kelly Clarkson took control of her career during the Breakaway era.

And the fact that that was over 10 years ago and the only other winner to come close is Carrie Underwood (and even her numbers are nothing to write home about in the grand scheme of things) makes me wonder if they prepare the contestants for that reality at all. Probs not.

A "HOW NOT TO SUCK POST-IDOL" segment to the show would be a welcome addition, in my opinion. Definitely better than that Tommy Hilfigger nonsense that didn't amount to anything...

[Mumei]

And the fact that that was over 10 years ago and the only other winner to come close is Carrie Underwood (and even her numbers are nothing to write home about in the grand scheme of things) makes me wonder if they prepare the contestants for that reality at all. Probs not. A "HOW NOT TO SUCK POST-IDOL" segment to the show would be a welcome addition, in my opinion. Definitely better than that Tommy Hilfigger nonsense that didn't amount to anything...

How can they have that segment when they don't know how?

[06nbarnhill]

And the fact that that was over 10 years ago and the only other winner to come close is Carrie Underwood (and even her numbers are nothing to write home about in the grand scheme of things) makes me wonder if they prepare the contestants for that reality at all. Probs not. A "HOW NOT TO SUCK POST-IDOL" segment to the show would be a welcome addition, in my opinion. Definitely better than that Tommy Hilfigger nonsense that didn't amount to anything...

I kinda disagree with this.

Really its hard to imagine Carrie and Kelly doing any better than they have done overall. They may not be in the top 1% of singers sales wise....but I think they should be happy with top 5-10%. Not everyone can be Elton John, Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson.

[Baconsammy]

I kinda disagree with this. Really its hard to imagine Carrie and Kelly doing any better than they have done overall. They may not be in the top 1% of singers sales wise....but I think they should be happy with top 5-10%.

Kelly was completely faceless to me until about week 8 of her season and then BOOM that voice. And then week in and week out she killed every song she had, only nearly killing it all at the very end when she started complaining about the schedule they had the singers on. For whatever reason people didnt want to hear about how hard it was to be handed all of this fame. Today she would have lost to Sideshow Bob. During Carrie's season I don't remember her blowing me away at all. She was good, but her performances always seemed stiff and over-prepared. Sort of what they bash Hollie for now. The guy she was up against was another WGWG though.

[JCX]

Kelly was completely faceless to me until about week 8 of her season and then BOOM that voice. And then week in and week out she killed every song she had, only nearly killing it all at the very end when she started complaining about the schedule they had the singers on. For whatever reason people didnt want to hear about how hard it was to be handed all of this fame. Today she would have lost to Sideshow Bob. During Carrie's season I don't remember her blowing me away at all. She was good, but her performances always seemed stiff and over-prepared. Sort of what they bash Hollie for now. The guy she was up against was another WGWG though.

Carrie won her season earlier than probably any other winner with Alone, followed by Simon true prediction that she would be the highest selling Idol winner ever. She took a risk and went out of her country comfort zone.

I only watched the season 1 finale at the time when it was on, so I never had a serious rooting interest, but everyone but Kelly and Tamyra were pretty lame in retrospect. I agree that she would have faced more trouble now, but that's only because the show shifted from "sing each theme the best" to "STAY IN YOUR BOX".

[Mumei]

Carrie won her season earlier than probably any other winner with Alone, followed by Simon true prediction that she would be the highest selling Idol winner ever. She took a risk and went out of her country comfort zone. I only watched the season 1 finale at the time when it was on, so I never had a serious rooting interest, but everyone but Kelly and Tamyra were pretty lame in retrospect. I agree that she would have faced more trouble now, but that's only because the show shifted from "sing each theme the best" to "STAY IN YOUR BOX".

Well sort of true. Kelly's still the biggest WW.

[Baconsammy]

Carrie won her season earlier than probably any other winner with Alone, followed by Simon true prediction that she would be the highest selling Idol winner ever. She took a risk and went out of her country comfort zone. I only watched the season 1 finale at the time when it was on, so I never had a serious rooting interest, but everyone but Kelly and Tamyra were pretty lame in retrospect. I agree that she would have faced more trouble now, but that's only because the show shifted from "sing each theme the best" to "STAY IN YOUR BOX".

Tamyra was really good too, but never blew me away like Kelly did. I can't even remember Justin anymore. A dude like that could win it all now. That's what they've turned the show into.

[Gary Whitta]

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

[Crumpet Trumpet]

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

Swivel chairs!

[Baconsammy]

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

I honestly thought they saw that last season and this season is essentially a carbon copy of last season. I like Idol's way of only eliminating one singer a week, but I prefer the amount of say that judges/mentors have in who is leaving on The Voice. Combined you basically get X Factor, which I thought was a dreadful show, but that was mainly due to how stupidly loud and obnoxious it was.

[JCX]

Well sort of true. Kelly's still the biggest WW.

Good point. Carrie only recently overtook Kelly in domestic sales, and county doesn't get much play outside the states.

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

I hope so, but they won't make the bold changes needed to fix the show. They'll probably be lazy and just bring back the top 24 format from seasons 4-6.

To fix Idol, they should,

-Fire Randy, and really the entire panel.
-Bring back top 24 format of seasons 4-6 to weed out weak contestants. The format they have now is the worst of the series.
-Limit voting to 5 votes per line. Enough to show preference between multiple favorites, but not enough to require power voting.
- Age limit back up to 16. You should be able to drive if you're going to win a Ford car.
- Less old themes, which they have been better about this season1
- If we can't get useful judges, move their critiques to results show so the songs can be longer and we don't have to worry about sympathy/backlash votes.

[Mumei]

Good point. Carrie only recently overtook Kelly in domestic sales, and county doesn't get much play outside the states. I hope so, but they won't make the bold changes needed to fix the show. They'll probably be lazy and just bring back the top 24 format from seasons 4-6. To fix Idol, they should, -Fire Randy, and really the entire panel. -Bring back top 24 format of seasons 4-6 to weed out weak contestants. The format they have now is the worst of the series. -Limit voting to 5 votes per line. Enough to show preference between multiple favorites, but not enough to require power voting. - Age limit back up to 16. You should be able to drive if you're going to win a Ford car. - Less old themes, which they have been better about this season1 - If we can't get useful judges, move their critiques to results show so the songs can be longer and we don't have to worry about sympathy/backlash votes.

I would add having real critiquing and not using the critiques as attempts at creating narratives and pigeon-holing contestants.

[Gary Whitta]

Yeah I agree that step one should be a total house-cleaning on the judges panel. Randy is fucking useless. When all J-Lo can say is "there's nothing to say/I have no words" etc you have to wonder why the fuck she's there. Hire a judge who CAN think of something to say! And Tyler has the occasional funny quip and is amusing in auditions but useless when it comes to the main rounds. They need to start over - and as I've said before I would put Iovine on the panel in the Cowell slot because he's the only one with any insight and an ability to say what he thinks even if it's harsh.

[Baconsammy]

Yeah I agree that step one should be a total house-cleaning on the judges panel. Randy is fucking useless. When all J-Lo can say is "there's nothing to say/I have no words" etc you have to wonder why the fuck she's there. Hire a judge who CAN think of something to say! And Tyler has the occasional funny quip and is amusing in auditions but useless when it comes to the main rounds. They need to start over - and as I've said before I would put Iovine on the panel in the Cowell slot because he's the only one with any insight and an ability to say what he thinks even if it's harsh.

They put him on only after the voting is complete. They're scared he'll influence the narrative negatively.

[Gary Whitta]

They put him on only after the voting is complete. They're scared he'll influence the narrative negatively.

Did Cowell influence the narrative negatively? The lack of anyone on the panel who can really say what people at home are thinking the way Cowell did is what's hurting the show more than anything IMO.

[JCX]

Did Cowell influence the narrative negatively? The lack of anyone on the panel who can really say what people at home are thinking the way Cowell did is what's hurting the show more than anything IMO.

Agreed, but Nigel will never allow someone as much power as Cowell had. During his time, there were theories about the producers' script (Paula and Randy) vs Simon's script, most noticeably in S6 when Simon loved Melinda but the show wanted Jordin. Nigel likes his control, and that means no more strong judges unfortunately.

American Idol: The Untold Story goes in more detail about some of the fights between Simon Fuller and Simon Cowell. It's part of the reason why Cowell made X Factor. He didn't like that judges weren't allowed more control over singers on Idol.

[SecretMoblin]

Wasn't Cowell an EP? Or at least a producer?

He was certainly very involved in crafting narratives—understandably, since he stood to benefit a great deal from successful contestants. I mean, the whole Carrie "you will be the best-selling blah blah blah" was perhaps the biggest narrative push in the history of the show. Iovine wouldn't have any similar investment in the outcome, which is precisely why he probably wouldn't be put on the panel in the first place.

But even Iovine gets things hilariously wrong a great deal of the time. The show has been trying to strike this awkward balance of being a talent competition as well as an entertainment vehicle; they attempt to talk about vocal ability in the same episode they have some washed up fashion designer telling a contestant to wear skinny jeans. I'm not going to watch the show from here on out, but honestly it would probably better if they just admitted the cynical nature of the whole thing and critiqued the contestants on marketing ability and looks alone.

[Ryaaan14]

Wasn't Cowell an EP? Or at least a producer? He was certainly very involved in crafting narratives—understandably, since he stood to benefit a great deal from successful contestants. I mean, the whole Carrie "you will be the best-selling blah blah blah" was perhaps the biggest narrative push in the history of the show. Iovine wouldn't have any similar investment in the outcome, which is precisely why he probably wouldn't be put on the panel in the first place. But even Iovine gets things hilariously wrong a great deal of the time. The show has been trying to strike this awkward balance of being a talent competition as well as an entertainment vehicle; they attempt to talk about vocal ability in the same episode they have some washed up fashion designer telling a contestant to wear skinny jeans. I'm not going to watch the show from here on out, but honestly it would probably better if they just admitted the cynical nature of the whole thing and critiqued the contestants on marketing ability and looks alone.

I've been saying that every year after season 5.

[Baconsammy]

Did Cowell influence the narrative negatively? The lack of anyone on the panel who can really say what people at home are thinking the way Cowell did is what's hurting the show more than anything IMO.

Simon was only present for one season of flailing ratings, but most of what he had to say that season got buried underneath an over-packed judging table. They're doing all they can to court the little girl (and soccer mom) viewers, and you don't keep them by Phil getting booted off due to Jimmy telling everyone he was awful and deserved the bottom spot. Think Simon would have put up with Nigel's stupid tactics (sending a mob of girls on stage to Scotty). It's no coincidence that Nigel only came back after Simon left.

Wasn't Cowell an EP? Or at least a producer?

Highly paid "talent".

[ToxicAdam]

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

I still want my All-Star show.

It works on every other reality show.

[Trigger]

I question if enough contestants would generally be interested in coming back (and being put through the idol sausage machine) for an All-Stars Season. Well that and I question if anyone would be excited for a group of singers they didn't support in the real world. I'd totally be down for returning contestants to maybe help mentor.

[Baconsammy]

The majority would probably come back, but not the ones that made it big and stayed big - Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie, Daughtry.

[JCX]

I still want my All-Star show. It works on every other reality show.

I read somewhere that they thought about it, but not enough popular former contestants wanted to come back. Makes sense, considering that anyone with a music career wouldn't want to be a part of it. Maybe a short one around the Holidays for charity?

I question if enough contestants would generally be interested in coming back (and being put through the idol sausage machine) for an All-Stars Season. Well that and I question if anyone would be excited for a group of singers they didn't support in the real world. I'd totally be down for returning contestants to maybe help mentor.

I'd like that. Maybe one mentor per contestant all season long. I thought I'd be over The Hunger Games by now :(

[Baconsammy]

Simon asked the producers of the Voice and Idol to do a show with the best from the history of each show (including X Factor). They both rejected it.

[Trigger]

I'm not surprised. I imagine that the Voice is still trying to build its brand. I've caught a few episodes, and their production values are top-notch.

I thought I'd be over The Hunger Games by now :(

Don't fight it.

[06nbarnhill]

Simon asked the producers of the Voice and Idol to do a show with the best from the history of each show (including X Factor). They both rejected it.

To be fair the only reason he asked was because his show was last place of the three and wanted to be put on an equal playing field with them.

[MIMIC]

I think we will see some major changes next season, FOX doesn't seem to be happy with the way the show is stagnating.

They're gonna put more shit on stage.

Broadway Idol

I wouldn't be surprised if they messed with the voting system again and added another gimmick (in addition to the "save")

[Baconsammy]

They claimed they had made changes to this season and all it amounted to was the judges got an extra save or something at the very beginning when it mattered least. Nigel's not the go-to guy for innovative new ideas.

[Gary Whitta]

The majority would probably come back, but not the ones that made it big and stayed big - Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie, Daughtry.

Yeah I remember when they did that World Idol show and it just seemed demeaning for everyone involved.

[AngmarsKing701]

The problem is pretty clear: we're running out of even semi-decent singers who are willing to come out and compete in this contest.

Let's see, if you're a young female who can sing, you know winning this thing is almost impossible, because you're not a WGWG. You also know that America's Got Talent, X-Factor, The Voice and now Duets can be used for a path to fame.

Furthermore, it's clear that Idol is melodramatic to a fault, and that the judges pretty much don't know shit. I suppose Jimmy and the guest "advisors" provide some level of career guidance here that these contestants can internalize, but how much really sinks in?

I suppose for a shot at the big time we're going to continue to see people cram into the audition line for this. But it's clear that Idol (and X-Factor) pushed the entry age down to 13 because they needed the additional pool of potential talent. After 11 seasons of Idol auditions, how many people have gone through the ringer trying to make it to the big time?

Bottom line: the talent pool -- what talent was here in the first place -- has either dried up or been diluted by Idol's popularity. Too many singing competitions now. This year's crop is direct evidence: there isn't a single marketable singer in the remaining group. Skylar may very well be the only one who goes on to sell maybe half a million records at some point.

[Baconsammy]

Yeah I remember when they did that World Idol show and it just seemed demeaning for everyone involved.

When/where was that? I must have been studying or else that sounds like the kind of awful TV I'd be watching.

[Trigger]

I don't think the talent pool has dried up (though contestants bouncing between shows certainly hurts that argument). Idol just has to put effort in to promoting and building it's winners. No one from this season will be seen as a legitimate artist. If Idol was seen as a show that produces actual stars then more artists would give it a shot.

Incidentally I actually listened to the studio version of Phil's "Volcano" cover. It wasn't that bad. I would love to see the behind the scenes stuff (recording, staging, song selection). We, the audience, already know of the sausage making process involved in making music. Showing off more of the process could garner respect for the contestants.

[BigDug13]

Good point. Carrie only recently overtook Kelly in domestic sales, and county doesn't get much play outside the states. I hope so, but they won't make the bold changes needed to fix the show. They'll probably be lazy and just bring back the top 24 format from seasons 4-6. To fix Idol, they should, -Fire Randy, and really the entire panel. -Bring back top 24 format of seasons 4-6 to weed out weak contestants. The format they have now is the worst of the series. -Limit voting to 5 votes per line. Enough to show preference between multiple favorites, but not enough to require power voting. - Age limit back up to 16. You should be able to drive if you're going to win a Ford car. - Less old themes, which they have been better about this season1 - If we can't get useful judges, move their critiques to results show so the songs can be longer and we don't have to worry about sympathy/backlash votes.

I would take it a step further. Make it like So You Think You Can Dance. Let the voting determine your bottom 3 instead of just your loser each week. Those bottom 3 have a sing-off, Make them short 30-60 second song clips like SYTYCD's dance-for-your-life. Then the Judges decide who leaves.

So America still gets a vote to determine the bottom, but doesn't get THE vote.

[JCX]

The problem is pretty clear: we're running out of even semi-decent singers who are willing to come out and compete in this contest.

Disagree. I could cobble together a good top 12 just based on the past few seasons of Idol, and that doesn't even count the great people turned away during the cattle calls.

Idol's problem is forcing contestants into product lanes so early. Contestants should be expected to sing in the genres assigned, not to switch everything into his or her lane. The identity can be crafted after the show.

I would take it a step further. Make it like So You Think You Can Dance. Let the voting determine your bottom 3 instead of just your loser each week. Those bottom 3 have a sing-off, Make them short 30-60 second song clips like SYTYCD's dance-for-your-life. Then the Judges decide who leaves. So America still gets a vote to determine the bottom, but doesn't get THE vote.

MAYBE with a competent group of judges, but even then, I'm not so sure. That's already too close to X Factor, anyway. The judges need to actually just say real critiques instead of spouting out catchphrases they're trying to make happen.

[AngmarsKing701]

Disagree. I could cobble together a good top 12 just based on the past few seasons of Idol, and that doesn't even count the great people turned away during the cattle calls. Idol's problem is forcing contestants into product lanes so early. Contestants should be expected to sing in the genres assigned, not to switch everything into his or her lane. The identity can be crafted after the show. MAYBE with a competent group of judges, but even then, I'm not so sure. That's already too close to X Factor, anyway. The judges need to actually just say real critiques instead of spouting out catchphrases they're trying to make happen.

It's not even judging at this point. It's cheerleading. If they can't provide constructive feedback, just shut them the fuck up.

[06nbarnhill]

I would take it a step further. Make it like So You Think You Can Dance. Let the voting determine your bottom 3 instead of just your loser each week. Those bottom 3 have a sing-off, Make them short 30-60 second song clips like SYTYCD's dance-for-your-life. Then the Judges decide who leaves. So America still gets a vote to determine the bottom, but doesn't get THE vote.

Would rather have judges decide b3. Force the douchebags to make a goddamn choice.

Then vote between them.

(Has its problems 2 and would never work. However, still like it more than sytycd's model....especially with the trash judges)

[Fancy Corndog]

Nobody here likes Josh, eh? He's been the clear favorite for weeks for me. Jessica is a talented singer too, but as others have said, completely devoid of any emotion.

[Baconsammy]

Nobody here likes Josh, eh? He's been the clear favorite for weeks for me. Jessica is a talented singer too, but as others have said, completely devoid of any emotion.

He's a great singer, he's just unappealing to me. I'm not a fan of melisma.

[Leona Lewis]

Paging Mumei

:-3

[ToxicAdam]

Nobody here likes Josh, eh? He's been the clear favorite for weeks for me. Jessica is a talented singer too, but as others have said, completely devoid of any emotion.

I'm more a fan of Josh's genre (soul/gospel) than I am of him. Josh tends to 'Adam Lambert' some of his songs and he gets lost in his histrionics.

I wouldn't have a problem if any of the final 3 won. They are all very competent at what they do and have all had some high points this season. Which is unusual for me, because usually at this stage of the competition I have a very definite opinion on who the best person is.

[Trigger]

Nobody here likes Josh, eh? He's been the clear favorite for weeks for me. Jessica is a talented singer too, but as others have said, completely devoid of any emotion.

I'm happy for him. I never figured he'd get so far.

[Delio]

Nobody here likes Josh, eh? He's been the clear favorite for weeks for me. Jessica is a talented singer too, but as others have said, completely devoid of any emotion.

Oh I love him. He's sassy and I really enjoy it.

[Baconsammy]

One thing you can say about Josh when he's not singing is that he isn't fake.

[06nbarnhill]

I am just apathetic towards Josh. Don't like the style of music he sings while at the same time I have nothing against it. When I listen to him sing I feel nothing either way. I am aware of this bias so I just avoid judging the guy because I probably couldn't be rational.