[pieatorium]

It was running on a Wii U. It has more value than any of the nonsense in this thread.

It was running on something almost 12 months old by now, how similar that is to a final WiiU we will probably never know.

[Duallusion]

Since WiiU is so NDA'd to hell and back, do MS and Sony know what are its specs? And if so, how do they go about getting this information? Do they employ some super spy-ninjas or is it just a mundane matter of Mattrick picking up the phone and calling Rein or whoever?

[z0m3le]

Who? which rumours are reliable and which are not?

When a rumor from one source is collaborated by another (6x 360 rumor) and given to us from 2 independent sources, that should count as a reliable source, while xbox magazine rumors should probably be looked at with a bit more skepticism.

Most of the current crop of console games are set to "low" so I have trouble picturing this.

I was using High and Ultra as a comparative between those two systems, since consoles have no such things as "low" settings, I find your knowledge on the subject dubious.

He didn't say it was outright weaker than the 360 and confirmed more ram, once again looks like you are choosing which rumours are reliable. I wish people would stop using that bird demo as some kind of proof of anything other than that tech demo exists.

A tech demo running on the show floor, inside a Wii U prototype unit, on early dev kits, is a pretty good judge of what is possible on a final unit, especially if the final units got a "nice bump" in power.

[ShockingAlberto]

Since WiiU is so NDA'd to hell and back, do MS and Sony know what are its specs? And if so, how do they go about getting this information? Do they employ some super spy-ninjas or is it just a mundane matter of Mattrick picking up the phone and calling Rein or whoever?

Probably.

You'd be surprised how often it's the latter just disguised as "We want to make sure your game can run on anything, how comparable is our hardware to the competition?"

[Duallusion]

Probably. You'd be surprised how often it's the latter just disguised as "We want to make sure your game can run on anything, how comparable is our hardware to the competition?"

Thought so. The world is run this way:)

[mugurumakensei]

Who? which rumours are reliable and which are not? Most of the current crop of console games are set to "low" so I have trouble picturing this. He didn't say it was outright weaker than the 360 and confirmed more ram, once again looks like you are choosing which rumours are reliable. I wish people would stop using that bird demo as some kind of proof of anything other than that tech demo exists.

actually, in one of his earlier posts, he says its weaker in everything but ram amount. He also said the ram is slower than 360/PS3, and his company struggles to match 360 without sacrifices.

[z0m3le]

The Wii is a weird one, as compared to last gen there's plenty of grunt under the hood, but not using traditional shaders holds it back, unlike the Xbox which was a mini-PC through and through. As for my own personal opinion on this matter, I don't distrust Arkam. I've had a few chats with him now and I have no reason to label him a fake or a troll. I also don't feel his posting history indicates malicious behaviour. He's been quite polite, and elaborated where necessary, especially when he first made statements about the Wii U floating around Xbox 360 power levels. His timeliness with replies is irrelevant given not everybody has the time to spend several hours a day on GAF bending over for a demanding community (his posting history suggests he is not a regular poster at all), and many of these demands seem to come from people frustrated with what he's saying and looking to take him down a peg. Scepticism is warranted, especially before he verified his employment, and though nobody has to believe him at all, the aggressive attacks and belittling is really quite inappropriate, and shows the insecurities of the people attacking moreso than any flaw in what Arkam is saying. People need a little refresher on what, exactly, he has stated. He openly specified he does not know the final specs, and only the bits and pieces of a recent kit. He clarified, again openly and up front, that by 'less powerful' he means Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game would have to be 'scaled back' to run on the Wii U. For specifics, he stated the system features a tri-core out of order CPU, 1GB of 'pretty slow RAM', and a 'decently featured' GPU that 'lacks raw muscle'. He also stated it is 'good and efficient', and that when it ships performance will be 'give or take a little' in the ballpark of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. He's not once said that the hardware is a blanket downgrade from the 360/PS3. He has not pointed to any specific piece of technology and said "this is worse than the 360". He has not discredited the possibility that some part of the Wii U is superior to current gen systems (if anything he endorsed this). What he said was that porting a 360/PS3 game directly to the Wii U would require scaling back the game due to hardware difficulties, and he gauges this as 'less powerful'. It is strange that he is the only leak to openly and blatantly claim the hardware is very similar to current generation systems. But again, there are a whole host of reasons he might think this, regardless of whether he is wrong or right. Those expecting a bit of grunt under the hood should maybe take a step back though, because numerous reports have suggested otherwise. Not just Arkam, but basically everybody other than IGN. We'll see come launch.

I love this post and shrod's specs:

CPU: tri-core at 2.916 GHz
GPU: 480 SPUs at 486 MHz (final kit would have a bump in at least the clock, but SPU numbers might increase as well)
RAM: 1 GB+

This points to a lot of people (including my early estimates of a Trinity GPU)

IGN's rumor actually fits perfectly with everything else we've heard, just look at the GPU that x720 is targeting, it's a HD6670, 768Gflops, 480 SPU...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4278/a...radeon-hd-6570

Wii U's GPU would be comparable to a HD6570, it's ~20% slower than the HD6670, if it was underclocked below 500mhz in the early dev kits, it would of been probably around ~500Gflops (624Gflops at stock speeds)... If Wii U based their GPU around Trinity as many people assumed, it would make a ton of sense that we get these numbers, and we see IGN's confirmation of Fudzilla's rumor become true.

Basically 6x is all bs, we all know that 6x means nothing, it's arbitrary and has no real way to measure directly lol.

[Aostia]

If the Wii U will be LESS powerful than an Xbox360 as some of the rumors are saying, it must be very cheap (199 €) to convince me to purchase it.
and probably not at launch.

[AceBandage]

If the Wii U will be LESS powerful than an Xbox360 as some of the rumors are saying, it must be very cheap (199 €) to convince me to purchase it. and probably not at launch.

Only one rumor is saying that (and it was started in this thread).
And it would cost like $150.

[Aostia]

Only one rumor is saying that (and it was started in this thread). And it would cost like $150.

THe first Nintendo HD console with the interesting Utablet at 150 € could be mine at lauch if they release also Pikmin3 alongside it AH AH AH

:D

[Donnie]

He didn't say it was outright weaker than the 360 and confirmed more ram, once again looks like you are choosing which rumours are reliable. I wish people would stop using that bird demo as some kind of proof of anything other than that tech demo exists.

Did he though? He said it had more RAM, but then he said his dev kit has 1GB, which wouldn't point to more ram as dev kits usually have twice as much RAM as the standard console (360 dev kits have 1GB). For instance lherre said his dev kit had 2GB of ram and that Nintendo were aiming for 3GB (which points to 1GB currently for the standard console with the aim of 1.5GB).

This is yet another inconsistency in Arkams claims. Saying more RAM but giving a number which suggests the same RAM as 360..

[AceBandage]

Did he though? He said it had more RAM, but then he said his dev kit has 1GB, which wouldn't point to more ram as dev kits usually have twice as much RAM as the standard console (360 dev kits have 1GB). For instance llhere said his dev kit had 2GB of ram and that Nintendo were aiming for 3GB (which points to 1GB currently for the standard console with the aim of 1.5GB). This is yet another inconsistency in Arkams claims. Saying more RAM but giving a number which suggests the same RAM as 360..

So, again.
He's either:

A. Trolling

or

B. Being fed a sack of lies/half truths and then spreading them here.

[EatChildren]

I don't believe he said the devkits specifically had 1GB of RAM. He said the system had 1GB, along with a tri-core out of order CPU.

[Maxrunner]

I don't believe he said the devkits specifically had 1GB of RAM. He said the system had 1GB, along with a tri-core out of order CPU.

But according to iherre it has more than 1GB...

[budpikmin]

I predict nintendo going for a "refinement" generation rather than a the "disruption" tactics they employed this gen. I point to the 3DS as strong evidence towards the idea. Both the DS and Wii were major disruptors in their respective markets. Both introduced wild new innovations and historically poorly explored ideas to shake things up. And in that they found massive success. The 3DS in comparison does relatively little to "shake up" the handheld world. 3D was meant to be a hook for sure, but under the hood, the 3DS handily surpassed the previous gen's competition (PSP) without going so far as its newest competitor, the Vita. In doing so, the 3DS has begun getting games that in the past went to the PSP rather than the DS while still maintaining price competitive (it is at the moment anyway). They may have lost some market share to Apple and the mobile market, but they certainly haven't lost all or even an overwhelming majority of it, and what numbers they did lose is being supplemented by the PSP market they previously did not have access to. I think (hope) they're planning something similar for the Wii U. Noticeably surpass the current gen but don't get carried away lest they suffer an inflated hardware price. Introduce a hook that is still appealing to many of the casuals out there and, most importantly, differentiates the console from its competition, but simultaneously court 3rd parties and enable the possibility of content previously lacking on the Wii. Tablets aren't revolutionary by any means, but they are the new hotness and will be for a few years. They can capitalize on the allure of tablets, drawing in casuals who are familiar and at ease with the tech into buying it for their families. iPads are cool and all but they're tough to share communally. The Wii U provides a portal to using tablets that the entire family can take turns sharing. At the same time, because the casual appeal of the Wii U is going to be diminished compared to the Wii, supplement the loss of consumers with previously uninterested hardcore gamers that are drawn by the HD graphics and 3rd party ports. If the Wii U is significantly cheaper than its next gen rivals AND it has a good chunk of that casual appeal that Kinect and the original wii had, casuals adoption rates will be much higher than the more expensive alternatives. Once it gets into homes, family members that are gamers will realize 3rd party ports are coming to the console with full HD graphics that still LOOK GOOD but are inferior to the 720/PS4 counterparts. This will be in stark contrast to the Wii where the gamers weren't ever there at all to begin with. Having access to those coveted 3rd party games, many will simply stick with the Wii U rather than upgrade to much pricier consoles that have the exact same games.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think the 3DS is the perfect indication of Nintendo's current strategy. The only things Nintendo had to rectify with the 3DS were it's price and the game library. So long as they launch Wii U with the right price and launch lineup, the plan you've outlined above should work out incredibly well for them.

[z0m3le]

His information was pieced together. I think it's safe to assume that we can't really use his gauge, and if the Fudzilla rumor confirmed by IGN's sources are true, then it won't matter either way, because that rumor said that the x720 is going to have a GPU based on the HD6670, which is a far cry from 6x Xenos in pure processing power. That is why I love those multiplier numbers, they don't mean anything yet become the most important piece of information given.

IGN's rumor actually aligns perfectly with those x2 rumors, which reminds me of 100 pages back or so when we were all saying 2x=5x... a 480spu is about twice as many as you can compare from the Xenos, yet it ends up 5x as powerful if you consider the entire package (fill rates, cpu being OoOe, much more ram, and a larger edram on the GPU.

A 6670 and a 6570 fit the x720 and Wii U console IGN & earlier rumors perfectly.

Also who really cares how much more powerful these two consoles will be as long as they are close to each other in performance, that is all that will ever matter for next gen. Devs aren't going to double their dev teams/time to push GRAFFIX this next gen just for the lawls.

[ozfunghi]

It doesn't add up.

Wii was more powerful (yet less featured) than the xbox. Gamecube was not far behind. Both had controller ports, memory slots, large discdrives. Now we have the WiiU, that does not have controller ports, has a smaller discdrive, and has nearly as much practical case volume as a GCN and double that of the Wii, yet Nintendo somehow forgot along the way how to put powerful hardware in a small case? This generation, they need more case volume for less power than the actual previous generation?

I can't imagine WiiU being weaker compared to PS360 than Wii was compared to the xbox, just by looking at its size. I know this is not a good analogy, and maybe my brain just can't cope, but in a time where laptops cost 500 bucks, have an i5 inside, large screen, battery, HDD and are no (or not much) larger than a WiiU, running games the 360 can't handle as well while running on a bloated OS, and all the while making a profit on the actual hardware... i just can't see how it's possible for the WiiU to be less or merely as powerful as a 360.

[Donnie]

I don't believe he said the devkits specifically had 1GB of RAM. He said the system had 1GB, along with a tri-core out of order CPU.

The current Wii U dev kit i am talking about (not this supposed new one in the last few weeks) Is slightly LESS powerful than the Xbox 360. What I mean by that is that we would have to scale back/change our Xbox/PS3 games to run on the console. Its a tri core out of order cpu with 1GB of pretty slow ram and a decently featured gpu that lacks raw muscle.

I think that makes it pretty clear he's talking about the dev kit.

[DragonKnight]

Welp. I knew it was all too good to be true. Every nintendo console post snes has had a caveat and apparently this one is no different. If arkams' information is indeed true then consider me very disappointed. I very cautiously await E3.

[Massa]

Did he though? He said it had more RAM, but then he said his dev kit has 1GB, which wouldn't point to more ram as dev kits usually have twice as much RAM as the standard console (360 dev kits have 1GB). For instance llhere said his dev kit had 2GB of ram and that Nintendo were aiming for 3GB (which points to 1GB currently for the standard console with the aim of 1.5GB). This is yet another inconsistency in Arkams claims. Saying more RAM but giving a number which suggests the same RAM as 360..

It wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft released devkits with 1GB of RAM. It wouldn't be unheard of for prototype devkits to have the same amount of RAM as the final system.

[EatChildren]

But according to iherre it has more than 1GB...

He said the devkits had more than 1GB. I don't recall him saying the final system has more.

I think that makes it pretty clear he's talking about the dev kit.

Indeed. I suspect he is mistaken then, or it is a devkit issue.

[Donnie]

It wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft released devkits with 1GB of RAM. It wouldn't be unheard of for prototype devkits to have the same amount of RAM as the final system.

That's fine apart from the fact that we already know the WiiU dev kit had 2GB of ram quite some time ago (with Nintendo aiming for more in future) through Lherre's posts.

EDIT: Actually looking back at his posts he seems to be saying that the dev kits have more than 2GB. He mentions 2GB as the lower range of what Nintendo said they would put in the dev kits but says the kit he has uses the higher amount of that range, so more than 2GB (3GB probably?). I may be misunderstanding him, but that seems to be what he's saying:

I can't speak about all the questions/details here but devkits have double memory amount than future retail hardware (is "usual" with the devkits because they need extra memory for debug purposes), the thing with this is that like memory amount is in an open range now (not closed) they have the "better" choice right now (I mean in the range the higher amount in the devkits). For example, if Wii U memory range is 4-5 gb, the kits have 10 gb instead 8 gb. So as I said before that memory can't be less than 1 gb, the kits have at least 2 gb :P (is higher of course because this is the lower value of the range).

[Jarsonot]

Eh, if games on Wii U look like the best games on current gen HD twins, but with better fps, AI, more enemies onscreen, etc. - I'd be fine with that.

I play a lot of retro games too, and grew up playing games. I distinctly remember having fun with them without them having incredibly real detailed graphics.

For me anyway, today's (best level of) graphics are good enough. Just make everything buttery smooth, make the games fun, and I'm in.

I think a part of me would be disappointed in it not being OMG NEXT GEN, but then I'd play the new metroid and zelda. All would be well again. =)

[tkscz]

Ok I don't get it. ONE guys makes ONE post and all of GAF believes him? You guys must be joking. I mean, how do we believe him? He could be just some troll who has been watching the thread until he got accepted to GAF. Then made this post in order to see how many would believe him. I mean, he said it had modern hardware in it that was weaker than what was in the 360. Any GPU from AMD 4000 series and up, can not be weaker than an early 2000 series. And even if it's tri-core, out-of-order pretty much puts it above the 360 right there. It makes little sense to me how (s)he's more believable than IGN.

[Nibel]

So.. are we back to this?



Thanks Arkam, THANK YOU! :(

(Can't believe that Nintendo will release a console which is less powerful than the 360)

[IceDoesntHelp]

So.. are we back to this? Thanks Arkam, THANK YOU! :( (Can't believe that Nintendo will release a console which is less powerful than the 360)

I still can't believe how people aren't fully reading into it.
1. Either he has been fed false information
2. He's working with an older dev kit (which Arkam has stated himself)

How about you wait for confirmation on how powerful it will be, before jumping to conclusions.

[tkscz]

I still can't believe how people aren't fully reading into it. 1. Either he has been fed false information 2. He's working with an older dev kit (which Arkam has stated himself) How about you wait for confirmation on how powerful it will be, before jumping to conclusions.

he was joking, that was kind of obvious.

[frankie_baby]

I still think he's just the tea boy

[IceDoesntHelp]

he was joking, that was kind of obvious.

Was it? I honestly couldn't tell. Sorry for not being able to tell what's sarcasm over the internet

[Nibel]

Was it? I honestly couldn't tell. Sorry for not being able to tell what's sarcasm over the internet

I thought writing "Duuuuuurango" and the obvious fake screens would make it obvious.

For the record, I don't believe Arkam.

[Massa]

That's fine apart from the fact that we already know the WiiU dev kit had 2GB of ram quite some time ago (with Nintendo aiming for more in future) through Lherre's posts.

I don't know or really care if he's using an older kit, a different kit than others, or whatever. I just don't think "even the X360 kits have 1Gb of RAM" is an excuse to go back to accuse him of trolling or lying, like some already have based on your post.

[IceDoesntHelp]

I thought writing "Duuuuuurango" and the obvious fake screens would make it obvious. For the record, I don't believe Arkam.

Forgive me, for I am tired.

[EatChildren]

Ok I don't get it. ONE guys makes ONE post and all of GAF believes him? You guys must be joking. I mean, how do we believe him? He could be just some troll who has been watching the thread until he got accepted to GAF. Then made this post in order to see how many would believe him. I mean, he said it had modern hardware in it that was weaker than what was in the 360. Any GPU from AMD 4000 series and up, can not be weaker than an early 2000 series. And even if it's tri-core, out-of-order pretty much puts it above the 360 right there. It makes little sense to me how (s)he's more believable than IGN.

Because I verified his place of employment and further discussed the matter privately.

[Door2Dawn]

Even if his credentials check out, it doesn't mean what he says it's true. We have multiple rumors suggesting it will be more powerful than current gen consoles, while we have one rumor that says it's weaker. What to believe what to believe...

[tkscz]

Because I verified his place of employment and further discussed the matter privately.

I see, your red letters lead me to believe you more than that guy. So can you shed some light on this or have you already done that? If you already did it, can you post a link where you said it?

[Maxrunner]

Because I verified his place of employment and further discussed the matter privately.

So did iherre and he said things that were different it seems.

[EatChildren]

Even if his credentials check out, it doesn't mean what he says it's true. We have multiple rumors suggesting it will be more powerful than current gen consoles, while we have one rumor that says it's weaker. What to believe what to believe...

Right, and I've never said otherwise. Simply stating that Arkam has made it clear he works for who he says he works for, and I know who he works for has devkits. I will not vouch for the accuracy of his information, because I cannot.

People continually trying to take Arkam the poster down a peg, attacking him not his information, are simply proving how childish they really are.

So did iherre and he said things that were different it seems.

Not really. I suspect Arkam was mistaken about the RAM or referring to the final system's specifications. Most of what they've said has lined up nicely.

It's funny, really, when you think about it.

lherre: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high."
Chopper: "My source is disappointed with the Wii U's specs."
Arkam: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high."

I've verified all three. Take that as you will.

Thanks for doing that. If the system will indeed in its final form be less powerful than Xbox 360 I'm even more interested now to know the technical specifications of Wii U, and how developers will utilize the system to optimize the games. Did Arkham provide you with any specific details about the system (no need to talk about it if so happened)?

Nothing worth repeating. We discussed stuff, but mostly he was very forthcoming in proving his place of employment. I don't really feel it appropriate to discuss what else we discussed.

I see, your red letters lead me to believe you more than that guy. So can you shed some light on this or have you already done that? If you already did it, can you post a link where you said it?

Nothing noteworthy posted. People were calling out Arkam's claims of being in the industry, so I verified it. He works for a developer, and that developer has devkits. That is factual.

[Donnie]

I don't know or really care if he's using an older kit, a different kit than others, or whatever. I just don't think "even the X360 kits have 1Gb of RAM" is an excuse to go back to accuse him of trolling or lying, like some already have based on your post.

Ok first of all my post isn't based on a comparison of the 360 dev kit vs the WiiU dev kit he claims to have. Its based on a person I trust more (and I think most here trust more) saying months ago that dev kits have over 2GB of RAM while Arkam claims only 1GB. Lherre also said that the range of RAM Nintendo were using in WiiU dev kits was 2GB upwards. So the whole "well it might be a older kit with 1GB" is nothing but an excuse IMO.

[Rösti]

Because I verified his place of employment and further discussed the matter privately.

Thanks for doing that. If the system will indeed in its final form be less powerful than Xbox 360 I'm even more interested now to know the technical specifications of Wii U, and how developers will utilize the system to optimize the games. Did Arkam provide you with any specific details about the system (no need to talk about it if so happened)?

[cyberheater]

2. He's working with an older dev kit (which Arkam has stated himself)

Yes but even if this is true. It still doesn't bode well that Ninty provided such underpowered devkit in the first place. It's unlikely that the final hardware will be twice as powerful as an early devkit.

[Door2Dawn]

Yes but even if this is true. It still doesn't bode well that Ninty provided such underpowered devkit in the first place. It's unlikely that the final hardware will be twice as powerful as an early devkit.

Wow, could you possibly reach any farther?

[cyberheater]

lherre: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high." Chopper: "My source is disappointed with the Wii U's specs." Arkam: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high."

Pretty much seals the deal for me. Nintendo. How could you.

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

Speaking of which, where does Nintendo find this kind of dated technology? The hardware which will come out at the end of 2012 is supposed to be less powerful than a console from 2005? It's like with the resistive touchpad, wouldn't you have to specifically search for technology that is so old? Is it even worth the hassle?

[Donnie]

Not really. I suspect Arkam was mistaken about the RAM or referring to the final system's specifications. Most of what they've said has lined up nicely. It's funny, really, when you think about it. lherre: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high." Chopper: "My source is disappointed with the Wii U's specs." Arkam: "The system isn't all that powerful and some people are getting their hopes up too high."

You're really generalising there though and taking what was said out of context. AFAIR Lherre's comment there was in referrence to people talking about WiiU being as powerful as 720/PS4. At no point did he ever claim the kits were weaker than current gen.

The actual details of each posters comments have varied quite a lot and I don't see why that should be smoothed over with "Well he probably meant this or that".

[Shiggy]

Did he talk about the updated dev kits or older ones?

[Donnie]

Pretty much seals the deal for me. Nintendo. How could you.

You're kidding yeah :)

[Lord Ghirahim]

Thanks for doing that. If the system will indeed in its final form be less powerful than Xbox 360 I'm even more interested now to know the technical specifications of Wii U, and how developers will utilize the system to optimize the games.

I would guess the subscreen resolution has been lowered to 360p. That way, Wii U can run Samaritan in the subscreen's native resolution even if the system is far less powerful than 360. Believe.

[frankie_baby]

Speaking of which, where does Nintendo find this kind of dated technology? The hardware which will come out at the end of 2012 is supposed to be less powerful than a console from 2005? It's like with the resistive touchpad, wouldn't you have to specifically search for technology that is so old? Is it even worth the hassle?

Er the resistive touch pad isn't dated technology its just different to what's in fashion and has a huge advantage over capacitive

[DragonKnight]

If he wasn't a hit and run poster, maybe we could. I get the feeling the NDAs got way too real and he decided to back off from posting. That or he's got a busy and fruitful life and has better things to do with his time than post incessantly on gaming message boards :-P

Can I get a link to his WiiU postings? I never realized that he was legit and would love to read his stuff from the beginning.

[cyberheater]

You're kidding yeah :)

No, not kidding. It does not surprise that Ninty would do the absolute bare minimum required to elevate Wii into HD territory. We've got three verified guys who have said as such and a load of crying fanboys who are jerking over some fantasy hardware dream that simply won't happen.

Give it up.