[dr_rus]

Kepler launch is not tied to Ivy Bridge

Trust me, it is. They may launch sooner depending on several conditions but IB launch is the deadline.

[herzogzwei1989]

Well, I guess Sony may go for Nvidia again for PS4.

[artist]

Trust me, it is. They may launch sooner depending on several conditions but IB launch is the deadline.

Nope.

[dehydratedbabies]

I think the driver issue isn't just (or even primarily) about bugs, it's about features. To me, NV - at this point in time - is superior to AMD in 3 major areas that are often not adequately accounted for in reviews: Speed of support for new games. New games are usually supported on releas or very lose to it with profiles/fixes/optimization etc. For AMD this can take longer. Minimum framerates and number of stutters. The Techreport has introduced a new measurement system that moves away from average FPS (which isn't very useful really) to try and capture the "smoothness" of gameplay instead, taking into account effects such as microstutter and framerate distribution over time. The results were generally slightly better -- compared to FPS measurements -- for NV, which confirms a feeling I had for a while. Abilities to enhance IQ. This should be what owning a high-end GPU is all about, and NV offers more options here. Between downsampling, SGSSAA, combined MS/SSAA, CSAA and the different transparency AA modes it's possible to force or improve AA in basically every single game ever. Regarding AF, high quality mode is still unmatched by any mode on AMD (not in terms of angle dependence, but in terms of samples taken and thus flickering). And on top of that you get the option to force SSAO in many games, which often doesn't work that well but is really nice in some. These are all not really related to driver stability, but driver capability. And they are the reasons why an AMD card would have to be at least 30% or so better in terms of pure framerate/$ for me to consider it at this point in time. (Note that all of this disregards specialty features on both sides, like 3d Vision, Eyefinity, Cuda or Physx) FWIW, I've used both brands for a long time, but haven't used AMD in my personal gaming desktop since getting a GTX260. I use at least 3 systems at any point in time (home desktop, work desktop, laptop) so I have more data points available.

Thanks for this post. As a noob trying to choose a high-end GPU I've been trying to determine what is and isn't fanboy hysteria regarding Nvidia vs. AMD and this is very helpful.

I think I've decided to wait for Kepler. I think...

[celcius]

So the current word on the street is that the mid-range 2GB kepler launches next month and that the gtx 580 replacement could arrive anywhere between april and june?
Also, if a mid-range kepler does come out next month, do you think it will be faster than a gtx 580? (both at stock)

[evil solrac v3.0]

Your joke sucks ass considering you didn't give context to make it funny/recognizable as a joke. Welcome to the Internet.

if you can't understand a joke then get off the internet moron.
admit you didn't get my joke and we can move on.

[dr_rus]

Nope.

Well, you'll see. No point in argueing further.

[artist]

Well, you'll see. No point in argueing further.

There is a difference between market opportunities. Saying Kepler desktop launch is tied to IB because the mobile version is launching with it is a stretch. If GK104 does end up launching around the same time then its not because of IB but other constraints.

[-Pyromaniac-]

Hey let's argue which side has better drivers with our anecdotal evidence!!!

lets get the facts out there:

[Hazaro]

At least post the right one, and one nVidia for good ribbing.

[artist]

Exclusive: And the Nvidia Kepler/GK104 price is…….. We hear that Nvidia (NASDAQ:NVDA) has sent out Kepler pricing to AIBs in the far east, or will once the New Year party dies down. A few green-tinged moles, we think it’s the New Year’s celebratory hair dye, tell SemiAccurate that the initial Kepler/GK104 cards will be priced around the $299 mark. This should tell you quite a bit about how large the silicon is, but not necessarily what it will be marketed as. There are two caveats to this number that you should be aware of. First, this is the initial round of pricing, and as we know, they do change, volume, yields etc. Second, it could well be a red herring to try and crater AMD 79xx sales, even given the number of sources that gave us the same number. Lets see how long it takes for the echo chamber to ‘independently confirm’ this one.

Even if the GK104 turns out to be 7950 level (which I doubt it will be so low) then we're in for a treat!

"This should tell you quite a bit about how large the silicon is, but not necessarily what it will be marketed as." - probably means it will end up as the GTX680/GTX780.

[sk3tch]

$300 would be awesome. Nice price war...but isn't the GK104 the "budget" part and the GK110 the "new 580 GTX" part? If so, and the budget part blows away the 7970 @ $300...wow~!

[chaosblade]

$300 would be awesome. Nice price war...but isn't the GK104 the "budget" part and the GK110 the "new 580 GTX" part? If so, and the budget part blows away the 7970 @ $300...wow~!

GK110 is the dual GPU part. GK112 is a mystery though.

[tokkun]

$300 would be awesome. Nice price war...but isn't the GK104 the "budget" part and the GK110 the "new 580 GTX" part? If so, and the budget part blows away the 7970 @ $300...wow~!

I am still skeptical that the article ever meant that it was better than the 7970. But if it beats the 7870 handily at $300, that's a good thing, since the 7870 is rumored at $350 which seemed way too expensive.

[artist]

GK110 is the dual GPU part. GK112 is a mystery though.

Not confirmed.

I'm surprised by the lack of GAF excitement on this pricing leak. :/

[TheThunder]

Even if the GK104 turns out to be 7950 level (which I doubt it will be so low) then we're in for a treat! "This should tell you quite a bit about how large the silicon is, but not necessarily what it will be marketed as." - probably means it will end up as the GTX680/GTX780.

I really hope the 28nm GPU wars blows up big time and if there is any slight truth to this rumor than man oh man...

I Couldn't pick a better year to finally upgrade.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Not confirmed. I'm surprised by the lack of GAF excitement on this pricing leak. :/

Its a rumor, that's why. Neogaf doesn't take rumors very seriously.

[Doc Holliday]

Man if they pull that shit off, that's some serious hardware voodoo magic. Shit I just bought a 7970 for 549 and they are saying the mid level card competes with it...fukkkkkkkkkk.

[Theonik]

$300 would be awesome. Nice price war...but isn't the GK104 the "budget" part and the GK110 the "new 580 GTX" part? If so, and the budget part blows away the 7970 @ $300...wow~!

If the 660/760 blows away the 7970 at $250 less AMD in in some serious trouble. This could very well also be a controlled leak too to stop people from buying into the 7970. At any rate I have a feeling I'm going to love this GPU war.

[Smokey]

I'm so confused by the code names of Kepler. I just want whatever would fill the spot of the 580 in their next-gen lineup. What part is that? The rumored $300 piece? BTW I don't believe that for one second. I mean...I want to but I just can't.

SLI @ $600 versus the $1000+ I spent on my MSI Lightnings Extremes?!

wat

I'm not gonna get my hopes up. Could be intentional FUD released by Nvidia.

[artist]

Its a rumor, that's why. Neogaf doesn't take rumors very seriously.

Charlie is pretty accurate with his leaks, just ignore his hyperbole.

[specialguy]

$300 pretty much confirms what the weak specs (256 bus, 2GB RAM) had already told us, this wont be competing for performance leadership.

Look like Nvidia has given up on chasing the high end more or less as I predicted, at least for a long time if/when gk112 exists in late 12/early 13.

Well, I guess Sony may go for Nvidia again for PS4.

They always have been going Nvidia imo. They will be at a performance disadvantage though (7970 3.5 teraflops, GK104 rumored at 2 teraflops, teraflops dont matter to PC performance but they will be utilized in a console), but I'm sure nobody will be switching vendors and I doubt AMD/MS would even allow them to come over to the AMD side. Besides the fact they must go Nvidia for backwards compatibility potential and all those other reasons. Given Sony's financial condition I'm sure they weren't going to be the most powerful anyway (fits with developer rumors I've heard than next xbox early specs>>>Ps4 early specs)

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Charlie is pretty accurate with his leaks, just ignore his hyperbole.

I know, I was making a joke.

[Tallshortman]

Guys, a $300 launch day MSRP GPU as powerful as the 7970 in two months time is a pipe dream. I can't believe you guys are buying into those rumors, especially when we're talking about Nvidia cards. I'm sure they'll release some powerful cards, but there's no way they're going to price them so low that they'll be barely breaking even when it's all said and done.

[Hari Seldon]

$300 pretty much confirms what the weak specs (256 bus, 2GB RAM) had already told us, this wont be competing for performance leadership. Look like Nvidia has given up on chasing the high end more or less as I predicted, at least for a long time if/when gk112 exists in late 12/early 13.

Yeah 256-bits and 2gb RAM means this is not a 7970 competitor. It simply isn't. Not unless they are running it hotter than the surface of the sun.

[Corky]

oh god yes 300 is my sweet spot, please be true.

[specialguy]

The best case is that they will get close to 7970 at 299, although maybe they lose a little steam at high resolution due to lack of memory bandwidth. If so they will seriously shake up AMD's pricing and that will be great. I can actually see that happening with ease as even a 28nm, higher clocked 580 could accomplish that, let alone if as expected they up the shaders.

I'd question 299 pricing in that scenario though, much as I'd love it. These companies are too greedy, my guess would be 399 then.

Either way some AMD early adopters could be kicking themselves, but it's all speculation some of which sounds too good to be true at this point. I hope as rumored Nvidia at least gives some insight into their plans on the 31st.

2GB RAM is a nice sweet spot too, I'm very RAM conscious and have thought Nvidias lineup was RAM limited for a while now, I'd never buy a 1.2 GB 570 or 1.5GB 580, as I dont think the RAM quantity is future proof. But I'm fine with 2GB, 3GB is kind of unnecessary right now, but AMD will be paying a higher BOM for that more RAM.

[artist]

Guys, a $300 launch day MSRP GPU as powerful as the 7970 in two months time is a pipe dream. I can't believe you guys are buying into those rumors, especially when we're talking about Nvidia cards. I'm sure they'll release some powerful cards, but there's no way they're going to price them so low that they'll be barely breaking even when it's all said and done.

Nvidia was able to stave off AMD with 2-3 times their die-size, given this sort of situation, Nvidia could very well price it at $300 and still make a profit.

[sk3tch]

I'd question 299 pricing in that scenario though, much as I'd love it. These companies are too greedy, my guess would be 399 then. Either way some AMD early adopters could be kicking themselves, but it's all speculation some of which sounds too good to be true at this point. I hope as rumored Nvidia at least gives some insight into their plans on the 31st.

Yeah 7970 performance won't be $299. That's simply because the market has proven the 7970 is priced right. At $550, the 7970 is out of stock everywhere. Nvidia could release at $500 and still sell like hotcakes. So $299 is insane.

[LiquidMetal14]

Good to read the pricing, let's hope it's true. Should be an interesting period these next 12 months. I look forward to shopping for a GPU this time next year and having a set of top ends cards at around the 5-600 range as I will have more disposable income with next years income tax than this years.

[artist]

Yeah 7970 performance won't be $299. That's simply because the market has proven the 7970 is priced right. At $550, the 7970 is out of stock everywhere. Nvidia could release at $500 and still sell like hotcakes. So $299 is insane.

There is also a rumor floating around that Nvidia is stockpiling so they can have enough quantities for launch, given this pricing, that perfectly fits in.

20k units for a $499 SKU at launch
50-80k units for a $299 SKU at launch

[Doc Holliday]

As much as I want to believe the price performance I still see the 580s selling at or close to 500 bucks on the eve of kepler launching. Wtf?!?!

[Theonik]

As much as I want to believe the price performance I still see the 580s selling at or close to 500 bucks on the eve of kepler launching. Wtf?!?!

Milking it for all it's worth. Also, graphics cards rarely get official price-drops when the new cards hit. Also think that the 580 is out of production? Could be wrong about the last one. I could have sworn I read it in one of those threads.

[Reallink]

They always have been going Nvidia imo. They will be at a performance disadvantage though (7970 3.5 teraflops, GK104 rumored at 2 teraflops, teraflops dont matter to PC performance but they will be utilized in a console), but I'm sure nobody will be switching vendors and I doubt AMD/MS would even allow them to come over to the AMD side. Besides the fact they must go Nvidia for backwards compatibility potential and all those other reasons. Given Sony's financial condition I'm sure they weren't going to be the most powerful anyway (fits with developer rumors I've heard than next xbox early specs>>>Ps4 early specs)

Right, cause AMD can really afford to turn away a potential 100+ million unit contract because they (and MS) "just won't allow it" for some reason. Kind of like how they told Nintendo to take a hike when they came knocking for the Wii U.

[sk3tch]

Milking it for all it's worth. Also, graphics cards rarely get official price-drops when the new cards hit. Also think that the 580 is out of production? Could be wrong about the last one. I could have sworn I read it in one of those threads.

"Vanilla" 580s very well could be...but companies have been releasing new versions even up until this month - see the Galaxy MDT 580.

[tokkun]

As much as I want to believe the price performance I still see the 580s selling at or close to 500 bucks on the eve of kepler launching. Wtf?!?!

Yeah, I'm also curious about this. There have been barely any price drops on last generations cards, and that is unusual compared to history.

There has to be some sort of new price-fixing agreement in place.

[Tallshortman]

Nvidia was able to stave off AMD with 2-3 times their die-size, given this sort of situation, Nvidia could very well price it at $300 and still make a profit.

Certainly not to this degree they didn't. Also, doesn't reducing die size reduce overall costs in the long run? Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. It would be great for consumers if this happened but I just think you guys are just getting way too stary eyed when Nvidia has never been the one to even try to win the cost-performance battle at the high end.

[IchigoSharingan]

Ha, I'm happy with it. It's a beast but it would figure the second I finally take the plunge there would be a paradigm shift the next day.

what is there to regret? we get to enjoy the 7970 while it is king of the castle.

[Doc Holliday]

Yeah, I'm also curious about this. There have been barely any price drops on last generations cards, and that is unusual compared to history. There has to be some sort of new price-fixing agreement in place.

Well they've done it before! Collusion is real possibility IMO. One reason why I think kepler will be just as fucking expensive as the 7970. Both cards should be 400 bucks tops. It's fucking nuts.

[IchigoSharingan]

don't remind us how much we overpaid for our 7970s LOL

[Felix Lighter]

what is there to regret? we get to enjoy the 7970 while it is king of the castle.

My decision to buy the 7970 was based on the rumors that the Nvidia replacement for the 580 wasn't going to be hitting the market until Q3 or Q4 of this year. I guess I also assumed that when it hit, it would be somewhat more powerful but ultimately comparable to the 7970. This rumor makes it sound like Nvidia's next batch of cards are in a completely different league and if that ends up being the case, I'd be a little disappointed that I didn't wait. It's nothing I'd lose sleep over.

[Hazaro]

If it's $300 for a 2GB part and it lines up with the 7950... then they will make it $420 vs $450 7950 and cut cores and sell a lower version for $350 and $300.

I can't see anything aggressive at all coming from nVidia. If they can offer a better part at a better price they will, but only barely.

[Theonik]

Certainly not to this degree they didn't. Also, doesn't reducing die size reduce overall costs in the long run? Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. It would be great for consumers if this happened but I just think you guys are just getting way too stary eyed when Nvidia has never been the one to even try to win the cost-performance battle at the high end.

It is also not common for AMD to price their cards higher than their Nvidia counterparts but here we are with the 7970. Ultimately we don't have enough concrete information to conclude either way though AMD is very likely to be charging a large premium on 7970 on account to being the fastest single card available right now.

[Doc Holliday]

don't remind us how much we overpaid for our 7970s LOL

Exactly....At the end of the day both cards are beasts and are more than enough for BF3 :D

I'm just loving how quiet and cool this card is. Hopefully Kepler will lower the price on the 7970 enough for me to crossfire muahahah.

[dr_rus]

There is a difference between market opportunities. Saying Kepler desktop launch is tied to IB because the mobile version is launching with it is a stretch. If GK104 does end up launching around the same time then its not because of IB but other constraints.

It's not a stretch. Kepler is a new architecture and they'll surely want to launch a new architecture with something faster than mobile GPU in an IB-based Ultrabook. Do the math from here.

GK110 is the dual GPU part. GK112 is a mystery though.

GK110 is not a dual GPU part (when was NV using a chip codename for a dual GPU part? this rumour was stupid right from beginning).

$300 pretty much confirms what the weak specs (256 bus, 2GB RAM) had already told us, this wont be competing for performance leadership.

Riiiiiiight. Because that's exactly what they've did for every last generation -- stopped competing for performance leadership.

Look like Nvidia has given up on chasing the high end more or less as I predicted, at least for a long time if/when gk112 exists in late 12/early 13.

GK110 = May.

[ColonialRaptor]

Looks like the 7970 owners are just about to get a buyers remorse. :P

Never.

I'll just sell my two 7970's and buy two 680's if the performance is that much greater

But... by the time the 680s release they will come out that the price of the 7970 is now, and the 7970 will plummet it price giving me an excuse to put a third on in my case

[artist]

It's not a stretch. Kepler is a new architecture and they'll surely want to launch a new architecture with something faster than mobile GPU in an IB-based Ultrabook. Do the math from here.

No math involved. Kepler desktop launch is not tied to Ivy Bridge. The mobile variant of Kepler may launch with IB because of OEMs - its very easy to throw in a GPU in a desktop versus designing a laptop with one.

[artist]

Yeah 256-bits and 2gb RAM means this is not a 7970 competitor. It simply isn't. Not unless they are running it hotter than the surface of the sun.

5870 was 256-bit and it held up pretty well against the 512-bit GTX480.

If it's $300 for a 2GB part and it lines up with the 7950... then they will make it $420 vs $450 7950 and cut cores and sell a lower version for $350 and $300. I can't see anything aggressive at all coming from nVidia. If they can offer a better part at a better price they will, but only barely.

8800GT, GTX460 etc are a few examples where Nvidia was aggressive, wont be the last.

[artist]

From Charlie's twitter

More on this soon, there is a BIG secret in the Kepler line. :) It will take a long article though, so not RSN

[faceless007]

I'm sort of confused, is there any part that is likely to launch by the end of April? That's about when I'm looking to build.