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FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:02 AM)
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Two new job postings indicate possible new studios.

Microsoft’s Interactive Entertainment Business and Microsoft Studios is driving entertainment industry wide change with Kinect for Xbox 360, our LIVE services and games, Windows gaming, and mobile gaming. Microsoft Studios (formerly MGS) is looking for a seasoned human resource professional to serve as a Human Resource Business Partner (HRBP) in support of two of our key internal studios, 343 Industries (responsible for the Halo gaming franchise) and Platform Next Studios (pioneering experiences on Kinect).

https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=65895

Level Designer-IEB-Microsoft Studios-LEAP Now our incubation team is ready to change the world again, but we need your help! You will communicate and collaborate well with a highly creative development team. You are adaptive in your thinking and in your ability to pick up new tools and techniques.

https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=71910

Mock if cold.
GavinGT
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:04 AM)
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Sounds like they're gearing up for Xbox 3/Kinect 2 products.

People give Microsoft shit for ditching many of their first-party studios mid-way through the generation, but in my opinion it was a solid business tactic. Those studios are vital early on in a platform's life for differentiation, but they're crippled in terms of profitability since they're inherently one-platform studios. In this current climate, it doesn't make much sense to do what Sony's still doing, hanging on to a bunch of (mostly unprofitable) first-party studios.

Microsoft will probably stockpile a few studios to get them through the first couple years after launch, and then disband them when they're no longer needed.
Last edited by GavinGT; 01-23-2012 at 06:11 AM.
Lingitiz
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:05 AM)
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How many new studios is that now? Looking forward to seeing the benefits next gen.
Omega.Blaze
Banned
(01-23-2012, 06:06 AM)
Microsoft sure needs 'em. I hope they don't go the same route as Rare though.
specialguy
Banned
(01-23-2012, 06:08 AM)
Yeah but who cares since at least the first one seems Kinect oriented.

Leap seems a lot like Loop. Xbox Leap...lulz

Everybody seems hoping so much ms is moving to next gen fast, but I just dont think they are. You guys may be left hanging for about, oh, 36 months.
wonderdung
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:08 AM)
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According to my linkedin inbox they're staffing up a new studio for Sesame Street kinect games.
botty
Disney Infinity is the greatest, most successful game ever made. I LOVE DISNEY INFINITY.
(01-23-2012, 06:08 AM)
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What would a Kinect 2.0 want from me? I'm already the controller.
DidntKnowJack
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:09 AM)
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Awesome. More Kinect development.
Noshino
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:13 AM)
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Glad to see that they realized where they should focus, unfortunately I don't have much confidence on Microsoft's ability to help develop and maintain 1st party studios.

Originally Posted by botty

What would a Kinect 2.0 want from me? I'm already the controller.

to be controlled ;)
GavinGT
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by specialguy

Yeah but who cares since at least the first one seems Kinect oriented.

Leap seems a lot like Loop. Xbox Leap...lulz

Everybody seems hoping so much ms is moving to next gen fast, but I just dont think they are. You guys may be left hanging for about, oh, 36 months.

November 2014 works for me.
FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lingitiz

How many new studios is that now? Looking forward to seeing the benefits next gen.

Let's see...

Confirmed:
Microsoft Games Vancouver
Microsoft Games Victoria

Seems real but not confirmed:
Microsoft Games Soho
Microsoft Games Family

And these two. And maybe some others I'm missing. Keep in mind Twisted Pixel recently joined their team, too.
TheVampire
(01-23-2012, 06:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Omega.Blaze

Microsoft sure needs 'em. I hope they don't go the same route as Rare though.

What ever happened to Rare?

They seemed to drop off the radar and stop making games.
Brashnir
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by FateBreaker

Let's see...

Confirmed:
Microsoft Games Vancouver
Microsoft Games Victoria

Seems real but not confirmed:
Microsoft Games Soho
Microsoft Games Family

And these two. And maybe some others I'm missing. Keep in mind Twisted Pixel recently joined their team, too.

343
FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Brashnir

343

Oh, yeah. Haha. Whoops.
NateDrake
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:31 AM)
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Quick Google search brought up a lot of job openings at MS-LEAP. They seem to be the team that developed Kinect.

http://www.linkedin.com/jobs/jobs-2D...rosoft-2434842
TheOddOne
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:36 AM)
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Yeah, these listings have been there for about a year. Some have not been filled and have popped back into rotation.

I get the impression that these startups have been working with current MS studios on stuff on a unofficial capacity. LEAP might have worked with Good Science on Kinect, because Good Science was well known to be the guys that spearheaded Kinect.

Don't get your hopes up about MS properly introducing these studios, they have barely said a peep about Good Science (been active since 2009) and MGS Vancouver (been active since 2010). All signs point to them being major players for the next generation.
FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne

Yeah, these listings have been there for about a year. Some have not been filled and have popped back into rotation.

I get the impression that these startups have been working with current MS studios on stuff on a unofficial capacity. LEAP might have worked with Good Science on Kinect, because Good Science was well known to be the guys that spearheaded Kinect.

Don't get your hopes up about MS properly introducing these studios, they have barely said a peep about Good Science (been active since 2009) and MGS Vancouver (been active since 2010). All signs point to them being major players for the next generation.

good point
Meatvillain
Banned
(01-23-2012, 06:47 AM)

Originally Posted by Brashnir

343

Are Ruffian first/second party? If so, that's another.
FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 06:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Meatvillain

Are Ruffian first/second party? If so, that's another.

I believe that they're third-party, actually. Maybe second? Not first.
bigtroyjon
Member
(01-23-2012, 07:02 AM)

Originally Posted by Meatvillain

Are Ruffian first/second party? If so, that's another.

This blog on their website, makes me think they are at least contracted to MS, if not a first party studio.
link

Any first party game developer working with one of the current console manufacturers will know that this partnership comes with some massive benefits. However, they will also know that along with these advantages they are also expected to make sure that their game commits to as many of the publisher’s first party strategic goals as possible as it tries to ensure they lead the way in the console war.

That’s something evident since our publisher Microsoft Games Studios has implemented the ‘three screens and the cloud’ strategy that was unveiled to the public back in 2009.

Phoenician_Viking
Please listen.
(01-23-2012, 07:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by GavinGT

Sounds like they're gearing up for Xbox 3/Kinect 2 products.

Pretty much.

People give Microsoft shit for ditching many of their first-party studios mid-way through the generation, but in my opinion it was a solid business tactic. Those studios are vital early on in a platform's life for differentiation, but they're crippled in terms of profitability since they're inherently one-platform studios. In this current climate, it doesn't make much sense to do what Sony's still doing, hanging on to a bunch of (mostly unprofitable) first-party studios.

I disagree with this. If a project is not profitable, it won´t get a sequel. As long as the games make profit they will get sequels.

Microsoft will probably stockpile a few studios to get them through the first couple years after launch, and then disband them when they're no longer needed.

I don´t think that is a good tactic at all. It´s always more expansive to build a studios from the ground up and more difficult to find the right talent, than maintaining their studios.
FateBreaker
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by bigtroyjon

This blog on their website, makes me think they are at least contracted to MS, if not a first party studio.
link

I wonder what they're up to, then...it does seem like they have a relationship of some sort with Microsoft.
Castor Krieg
Banned
(01-23-2012, 08:06 AM)

Originally Posted by GavinGT

Sounds like they're gearing up for Xbox 3/Kinect 2 products.

People give Microsoft shit for ditching many of their first-party studios mid-way through the generation, but in my opinion it was a solid business tactic. Those studios are vital early on in a platform's life for differentiation, but they're crippled in terms of profitability since they're inherently one-platform studios. In this current climate, it doesn't make much sense to do what Sony's still doing, hanging on to a bunch of (mostly unprofitable) first-party studios.

Microsoft will probably stockpile a few studios to get them through the first couple years after launch, and then disband them when they're no longer needed.

More likely Microsoft recognized first-party studios don't do shit, Sony still has them, Last Guardian is still getting done, X360 is still better selling in the US. They better spend that money on console-exclusive features and DLC.
Last edited by Castor Krieg; 01-23-2012 at 08:21 AM.
Limanima
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:13 AM)
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Xbox 3 kinect centered confirmed
Zeppelin
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:24 AM)
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More Kinect studios? MS is going to be completely destroyed first party wise next gen.
Vinterbird
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(01-23-2012, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by FateBreaker

I wonder what they're up to, then...it does seem like they have a relationship of some sort with Microsoft.

From what I've been told by co-workers who has had different relations to Ruffian, they are doing two new Kinect games and Crackdown is shelved for the time being. One of the Kinect games featured a bank robber escaping from a prison and having mini games around that concept.

(oh and apparently they also did the initial pitch on Rise, but Crytek said no thank you)
Phoenician_Viking
Please listen.
(01-23-2012, 08:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zeppelin

More Kinect studios? MS is going to be completely destroyed first party wise next gen.

I disagree. Third parties can concentrate on the hardcore. As long as MS does not totally abandon the hardcore, it wont be big deal, business wise at least. Casual spend a lot of money on games, you just have to make the games appealing to them.
bigtroyjon
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:35 AM)

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

More Kinect studios? MS is going to be completely destroyed first party wise next gen.

Maybe next gen Sony can figure out how to monetize the inevitable list wars they will win.
TheOddOne
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Phoenician_Viking

I disagree. Third parties can concentrate on the hardcore. As long as MS does not totally abandon the hardcore, it wont be big deal, business wise at least. Casual spend a lot of money on games, you just have to make the games appealing to them.

It's too soon to say these projects will only be only "casual", my guess it's just a game that appeals to a broad audience.
Zeppelin
Member
(01-23-2012, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Phoenician_Viking

I disagree. Third parties can concentrate on the hardcore. As long as MS does not totally abandon the hardcore, it wont be big deal, business wise at least. Casual spend a lot of money on games, you just have to make the games appealing to them.

But they are abandoning the hardcore. They've got Halo and Forza and that's it. I don't know about you but that's not enough to keep me interested. And Sony gets all those third party games too you know, in addition to a very strong first party line-up. Sure, this generations they've been better on the 360 in most cases but I doubt Sony will do that mistake again next gen.
FateBreaker
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(01-23-2012, 08:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zeppelin

But they are abandoning the hardcore. They've got Halo and Forza and that's it. I don't know about you but that's not enough to keep me interested. And Sony gets all those third party games too you know, in addition to a very strong first party line-up. Sure, this generations they've been better on the 360 in most cases but I doubt Sony will do that mistake again next gen.

Someone said this a while ago, and it echoed my thoughts perfectly: It's not that I am disappointed with the lack of exclusive titles from MS -- I mean, I am, but that's not the point -- it's that they are making these wonderful new studios and almost exclusively using them for Kinect. I like Kinect and support it, but I also like controller-based games and support those more. Out of all of the new studios, it seems like most are geared towards Kinect. In fact, 343 is the only newly formed studios dedicated to work on a controller-based series. Rumor is Vancouver might be doing Kinect-less games too, but I have my doubts.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(01-23-2012, 08:47 AM)
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You need more studios so you can replenish the ones you emasculate and eventually disband!

More sacrifices for the blood god!
TheOddOne
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(01-23-2012, 08:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by FateBreaker

Someone said this a while ago, and it echoed my thoughts perfectly: It's not that I am disappointed with the lack of exclusive titles from MS -- I mean, I am, but that's not the point -- it's that they are making these wonderful new studios and almost exclusively using them for Kinect. I like Kinect and support it, but I also like controller-based games and support those more. Out of all of the new studios, it seems like most are geared towards Kinect. In fact, 343 is the only newly formed studios dedicated to work on a controller-based series. Rumor is Vancouver might be doing Kinect-less games too, but I have my doubts.

Vancouver listings do not mention Kinect anymore.

To note is that we don't know if these studios will be making Kinect "exclusive" software, so the point is really moot.

And how have they been abandoning the core? What has changed since it's launch? MS still pushing out titles, even if those titles don't appeal to a small group.
Zeppelin
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(01-23-2012, 08:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by FateBreaker

Someone said this a while ago, and it echoed my thoughts perfectly: It's not that I am disappointed with the lack of exclusive titles from MS -- I mean, I am, but that's not the point -- it's that they are making these wonderful new studios and almost exclusively using them for Kinect. I like Kinect and support it, but I also like controller-based games and support those more. Out of all of the new studios, it seems like most are geared towards Kinect. In fact, 343 is the only newly formed studios dedicated to work on a controller-based series. Rumor is Vancouver might be doing Kinect-less games too, but I have my doubts.

I don't know man. To me the lack of (controller-based) exclusives from MS pretty much is the point. I don't care about Kinect. Does it make sense for them to spend money on Kinect? Probably. But that doesn't make me any happier and it's not what I want them to spend their money on. Would it make sense from a business perspective for them to take my route? I have no idea. Maybe not. But I really don't care. I'll give my money to whoever provides me with what I want.
Zen
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:00 AM)

Originally Posted by GavinGT

Sounds like they're gearing up for Xbox 3/Kinect 2 products.

People give Microsoft shit for ditching many of their first-party studios mid-way through the generation, but in my opinion it was a solid business tactic. Those studios are vital early on in a platform's life for differentiation, but they're crippled in terms of profitability since they're inherently one-platform studios. In this current climate, it doesn't make much sense to do what Sony's still doing, hanging on to a bunch of (mostly unprofitable) first-party studios.

Microsoft will probably stockpile a few studios to get them through the first couple years after launch, and then disband them when they're no longer needed.

Source on the mostly unprofitable part?
REMEMBER CITADEL
Member
(01-23-2012, 09:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zeppelin

But they are abandoning the hardcore. They've got Halo and Forza and that's it.

I don't even know what to say to that, you must have an extremely narrow definition of hardcore.


I don't know about you but that's not enough to keep me interested. And Sony gets all those third party games too you know, in addition to a very strong first party line-up.

I think he meant third party/independent studios working with Microsoft on first party games, that's always been an important part of Microsoft's strategy and it gave us things like Gears of War, Crackdown, Fable (it was created before Lionhead became a first part studio), Alan Wake, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey and so on.


Originally Posted by FateBreaker

Someone said this a while ago, and it echoed my thoughts perfectly: It's not that I am disappointed with the lack of exclusive titles from MS -- I mean, I am, but that's not the point -- it's that they are making these wonderful new studios and almost exclusively using them for Kinect. I like Kinect and support it, but I also like controller-based games and support those more.

The more Kinect-enabled games, the better. It can supplement traditional controller gameplay nicely, as demonstrated by Mass Effect 3.


Originally Posted by Zen

Source on the mostly unprofitable part?

Sony wouldn't be closing and reshuffling their studios if they were making them money. Keep pumping out a bunch of games with limited appeal and something's gotta give sooner or later.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:18 AM)

Originally Posted by Man God

You need more studios so you can replenish the ones you emasculate and eventually disband!

More sacrifices for the blood god!

the problem is that srat-ups like these have no ip value to MS so they're not as likely to be disbanded. MS wanted fasa's and Ensemble's ip catalogue as much as they wanted the talent. When the talent and results disappeared their only value was the market appeal of their titles so they had to be disbanded in order for MS to have security on their investment.

More likely thing to happen to these studios is that MS will put them onto useless boring side projects. Making additional content for a popular exclusive, building web, live, and moblie aps/games that add no real value but allow for microtransactions to people who want to buy the newest fable outfit, or halo armor.

Lets just hope that they're given the opportunity to shine before being shoehorned into useless crap addons.

Finally smaller start-ups like this are much more profitable then larger studios like rare and the now defunked ensemble. Ensemble was making one game with a 200 person staff, there was little overhead and though they may have been working on different projects, if those projects don't make the cut the studio's bloated staff count needs to go somewhere. Hell ensemble when they went belly up split into robot and bonfire.
Last edited by les papillons sexuels; 01-23-2012 at 09:26 AM.
Acheron
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:23 AM)
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Kinect was able to do a lot of cool things as a gadget. With Kinect 2 packed into every console Devs will be able to do a tonne of transformational things with it that could cater to core or extended audiences. Kinect is a peripheral, Kinect 2 is a pillar of the NextBox.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(01-23-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by REMEMBER CITADEL

Sony wouldn't be closing and reshuffling their studios if they were making them money.

Sony owns 15 studios. Since 2005 they've closed 3 and acquired 6. The overall investment in their own studios is way up over that time too. So I guess if we're using apparent financial commitment as a measure of profitability, they're actually 'mostly profitable'? :P

Really though - of course individual devs can be underperforming. That doesn't mean they mostly are or that the strategy of strong first party investment is being questioned by Sony or is questionable. Of course you're not going to have a 100% success rate.

As for MS, I hope they do build a strong base of developers (be it fully owned or via contracts) to boost their platform.
ymmv
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by REMEMBER CITADEL

I don't even know what to say to that, you must have an extremely narrow definition of hardcore.

I think he meant third party/independent studios working with Microsoft on first party games, that's always been an important part of Microsoft's strategy and it gave us things like Gears of War, Crackdown, Fable (it was created before Lionhead became a first part studio), Alan Wake, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey and so on.

The more Kinect-enabled games, the better. It can supplement traditional controller gameplay nicely, as demonstrated by Mass Effect 3.

Sony wouldn't be closing and reshuffling their studios if they were making them money. Keep pumping out a bunch of games with limited appeal and something's gotta give sooner or later.

Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.
Raonak
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(01-23-2012, 09:30 AM)
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Good. first party games are good. they tend to focus on the system's strengths.
TheOddOne
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(01-23-2012, 09:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by ymmv

Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.

Smh.

You're not better then him, even worse knee-jerk reaction.
Coxy
Member
(01-23-2012, 09:33 AM)
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you can put leap down as another kinect studio
https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdet...71393&jlang=EN

Bonus skills
- Experience with Kinect or other motion control technologies
daxter01
8/8/2010 Blackace was here
(01-23-2012, 09:34 AM)
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they need to considering 3rd party exclusives are dying
les papillons sexuels
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:37 AM)

Originally Posted by ymmv

Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.

the only people saying fuck the hardcore gamers is the people that are saying that that's what microsoft are saying.

Microsoft's not dumb, more importantly they understand the market. There's no need for them to make 150 new IP's that no one will buy when they can focus on 3 or 4 core franchise and allow 3rd parties to supplement the rest, throwing out a new ip every couple of years to test the waters. While at the same time filling the market with games that 3rd party publishes aren't providing and arn't marketing. Ie family friendly games. When microsoft see's their line up is in need of a strong hardcore title they put one to market. Gears, Halo, alan wake, forza, etc.

I'd like someone to name one year where microsoft failed to put in a hardcore title into a month that doesn't have a strong line of third party games to compete with already. Microsoft see's no reason to put halo up against cod or bf because they know it'll just create a devision in the market. It's much better to put it in the month before so that they can release supplemental content like map packs prior to people losing interest and moving onto the next big hit. Consumers are just amoebas, the moment the marketing drive for a product is done they'll hop onto the next game, for them it's working.
Last edited by les papillons sexuels; 01-23-2012 at 09:44 AM.
Zeppelin
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(01-23-2012, 09:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by REMEMBER CITADEL

I don't even know what to say to that, you must have an extremely narrow definition of hardcore.

That may very well be the case. But please enlighten me, what are some $60 first party titles that isn't Kinect based I can expect in the future? I honestly don't see anything on the horizon except for Forza and Halo and Fable, and I've felt like that for a couple of years now.

Originally Posted by REMEMBER CITADEL

I think he meant third party/independent studios working with Microsoft on first party games, that's always been an important part of Microsoft's strategy and it gave us things like Gears of War, Crackdown, Fable (it was created before Lionhead became a first part studio), Alan Wake, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey and so on.

Fair enough. On the other hand, a lot of third party stuff that MS claimed to be 360 exclusive turned up on the PS3 eventually anyway; Mass Effect 2, GTA4 DLC etc.

Maybe all of this is a case of greener grass on my part though. The 360 is the only console I own and I've gotten hundreds of hours of entertainment out of it over this generation, but still... the last couple of years I've felt they've fallen behind Sony.
Last edited by Zeppelin; 01-23-2012 at 09:56 AM.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
(01-23-2012, 09:59 AM)

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

That may very well be the case. But please enlighten me, what are some $60 first party titles that isn't Kinect based I can expect in the future? I honestly don't see anything on the horizon except for Forza and Halo and Fable, and I've felt like that for a couple of years now.



Fair enough. On the other hand, a lot of third party stuff that MS claimed to be 360 exclusive turned up on the PS3 eventually anyway; Mass Effect 2, GTA4 DLC etc.

Maybe all of this is a case of greener grass on my part though. The 360 is the only console I own and I've gotten hundreds of hours of entertainment out of it over this generation, but still... the last couple of years I've felt they've fallen behind Sony.

the grass is verymuch greener, all 3 consoles suffer from the same fate right now. How many games from any of the 3 manufacturers released in the last year doesn't have a number behind it?
Last edited by les papillons sexuels; 01-23-2012 at 10:02 AM.
Hyuga
Banned
(01-23-2012, 10:10 AM)
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Well, somebody has to make these KINECT games, when the Xbox720 starts.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Member
(01-23-2012, 10:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Sony owns 15 studios. Since 2005 they've closed 3 and acquired 6. The overall investment in their own studios is way up over that time too. So I guess if we're using apparent financial commitment as a measure of profitability, they're actually 'mostly profitable'? :P

Sure, we can only make guesses about general profitability within SCE WWS, although for the current situation it would be more useful to know what the ratio's been like in the last couple of years. Apart from them acquiring Media Molecule two years ago, I believe the most news in that period have been about studio closures, restructures and the loss of staff. Of course, that doesn't give us the whole picture because studios hiring new people don't usually get the same exposure, but it's quite evident that Sony's often lauded first party approach isn't without drawbacks.


Originally Posted by ymmv

Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.

I don't get this at all, Kinect doesn't only have to be used for children's games (although I certainly welcome more quality children's titles, but that's something for another discussion) or casual releases. In addition to that, it's rather silly how some studios are written of as "oh, another Kinect studio" as soon as their job listings mention Kinect. Well, yes, you're going to see a lot of Kinect support from Microsoft's internal developers, no surprises there, but that doesn't mean that all those studios will be producing are shallow Kinect-only affairs.


Originally Posted by Zeppelin

That may very well be the case. But please enlighten me, what are some $60 first party titles that isn't Kinect based I can expect in the future? I honestly don't see anything on the horizon except for Forza and Halo and Fable, and I've felt like that for a couple of years now.

I can't tell you that because you know as well as I do that Microsoft like to keep their hand close to their chest. Yes, they're pushing hard for Kinect and Kinect-enabled titles at the moment, it's just that I don't automatically write them off like you do. And now you move the goalposts even further by limiting it to $60 retail releases (because nothing else is hardcore), which eliminates some of the more ambitious XBLA games. When you put it that way, sure, they have nothing but Halo, Gears and Forza, but that's not giving us nearly the whole picture.
Last edited by REMEMBER CITADEL; 01-23-2012 at 10:30 AM.
derFeef
lil' bit tasty
(01-23-2012, 10:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by ymmv

Ah, here's the Kinect defense force, lauding MS' business sense and applauding their "fuck hardcore gamers, long live children's games" attitude.

Huh, I played enough games on my 360 last year that aren't Kinect games and which would some consider being "hardcore" or something... But whatever, I guess some people are just blinded by a narrow definition of "hardcore". (I hate that label).

And oh... where is the connection between Kinect and children games? Let alone that there is nothing wrong with games for kids.
Last edited by derFeef; 01-23-2012 at 10:26 AM.

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