[Solune]

Up back and blocking it when you're on the ground are 2 completely different things.

No, he was in blockstun on the ground, the string was cancelled into Rapid Slash and Noel chickenblocked it. Berserker Slash is way more ambiguous AND faster than Rapid Slash.

[Kadey]

I'll do a lobby on Thursday.

[Tobe]

I'll do a lobby on Thursday.

yeeeeeeeaaaaaah we are famous again!!!!

["God's Beard!"]

Dahbomb taking every opportunity to show his true colors when he thinks I'm not watching.

Doesn't he also have passport issues? I want this match to go down so bad. People would respect iron man a lot more when he is bodying team mss.

Put up or shut up, Dahbomb.

[Dahbomb]

I will avatar bet you for it. I am broke right now.

[DR2K]

We are talking about rapid slash here right? What difference does it make if you are blocking it on ground or in the air you still block inthe same direction? The Japanese players block it with a lot of consistency unless judgment cuts are involved.

I don't think I saw it blocked once on the JP stream. (the one with the awesome She-Hulk)

["God's Beard!"]

I will avatar bet you for it. I am broke right now.

meh, how about a character bet? Loser has to main the opposing player's team. I like ban bets, but nobody honors those anymore.

[crimsonspider89]

Huh? It was being blocked all the time on the JP stream. They were using more of a reset tool and a combo extender than a straight mix up tool.

[JeTmAn81]

Live or PSN on Thursday? Either way, I'm well equipped.

[Dahbomb]

meh, how about a character bet? Loser has to main the opposing player's team. I like ban bets, but nobody honors those anymore.

I can do that. You would have to main Firebrand/Iron Man/Akuma or Vergil/Iron Man/Akuma both on Repulsor.

Also SRK revised Grand Tier list is up. Vergil and Zero are TIED for BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME and both received perfect scores. List in alphabetical order inside the tier list. Bold is best character in the tier, Underline is the worst one in it.



Top Tier (9 or 10 points)


C.Viper, Dante, Dormammu, Magneto, Vergil, Wesker, Zero



High/Mid Tier (7 or 8 points)

Ammy, Doctor Doom, Felicia, Firebrand, Hawkeye, Morrigan, Phoenix, Spencer, Strider, Super Skrull, Taskmaster, Trish, Wolverine



Mid Tier (5 or 6 points)

Akuma, Captain America, Chris Redfield, Deadpool, Doctor Strange, Frank West, Haggar, Hulk, Jill, M.O.D.O.K., Nova, Rocket Raccoon, Ryu, Sentinel, Spider Man, Storm, Thor, Viewtiful Joe, X-23



Low/Mid Tier (3 or 4 points)

Arthur, Chun Li, Ghost Rider, Iron Man, Nemesis, She Hulk, Tron,



Low Tier (2 points minimum)


Hsien Ko, Iron Fist, Phoenix Wright, Shuma



Tier List in actual order (I erased the numbers it would get too cluttered up)

10 points (Perfect Top Tier, consensus completely agrees with tier)

Zero 250/25 = 10 Top Tier

Vergil 250/25 = 10 Top Tier



9 points (Top Tier)

C.Viper 248/25 = 9.92 Top Tier

Dorm 244/25 = 9.76 Top Tier

Magneto 240/25 = 9.68 Top Tier

Wesker 228/25 = 9.12 Top Tier



8 points (High/Mid Tier)

Strider Hiryu 220/25 = 8.8 High Mid Tier

Spencer 218/25 = 8.72 High/ Mid Tier

Firebrand 212/25 = 8.48 High/Mid Tier

Morrigan 208/25 = 8.32 High Mid Tier

Doctor Doom = 202/25 = 8.24 High/Mid Tier

Phoenix 202/25 = 8.08 High/Mid Tier

Taskmaster 200/25 = 8 High/Mid Tier (Perfect) Everyone agrees on High/Mid Tier.



7 points (High/Mid Tier)
Felicia = 194/25 7.76 = High/Mid Tier

Hawkeye 188/25 = 7.52 High/Mid Tier

Ammy 188/25 = 7.52 High/ Mid Tier

Trish 186/25 = 7.44 High/Mid Tier

Wolverine 184/25 = 7.36 High/Mid Tier

Super Skrull 180/25 = 7.2 High Mid Tier



6 points (Mid Tier)
Nova 170/25 = 6.8 Mid Tier

Akuma 170/25 = 6.8 Mid Tier

Spider Man 162/25 = 6.48 Mid Tier

Frank 160/25 = 6.4 Mid Tier

Viewtiful Joe 156/25 = 6.24 Mid Tier

X-23 154/25 = 6.16 Mid Tier

Rocket Raccoon 154/25 = 6.16 Mid Tier

Deadpool 152/25 = 6.08 Mid Tier

Sentinel = 152/25 = 6.08 Mid Tier

Modok 150/25 = 6 Mid Tier

Jill 150/25 = 6 Mid Tier



5 points (Mid Tier)
Chris Redfield 148/25 = 5.92 Mid Tier

Storm 148/25 = 5.92 Mid Tier

Captain America 140/25 = 5.6 Mid Tier

Thor 138/25 = 5.52 Mid Tier

Doctor Strange 132/25 5.28 Mid Tier

Ryu 130/25 = 5.2 Mid Tier

Hulk 126/25 = 5.04 Mid Tier

Haggar 126/25 = 5.04 Mid Tier



4 points (Low/Mid Tier)
Iron Man 122/25 = 4.88 Low Mid



3 points (Low/Mid Tier)

Chun Li 98/25 = 3.92 Low/Mid Tier

Nemesis 98/25 = 3.92 Low Mid Tier

Arthur 96/25 = 3.84 Low/Mid Tier

Ghost Rider 80/25 = 3.2 Low/Mid Tier

Tron 76/25 = 3.04 Low/Mid Tier

She Hulk 76/25 = 3.04 Low/ Mid Tier


2 points (Low Tier)

Shuma 74/25 = 2.96 Low Tier

Iron Fist 62/25 = 2.48 Low Tier

Phoenix Wright 56/25 = 2.24 Low Tier

Hsien Ko 52/25 = 2.08 Low Tier

[shadoclone]

What happened to Dante? Everyone forgot about him? In the consensus list I mean. Or obvious joke that goes right over my head.

[JeTmAn81]

Dante was "hilariously" listed at the bottom in Ass Tier. I don't really get it.

[Karsticles]

It's still utterly incomprehensible to me how people keep placing Dormammu so high.

[shadoclone]

It's still utterly incomprehensible to me how people keep placing Dormammu so high.

They see his damage and teleports, and boom top tier. Plus combo difficulty is obviously far more important than controlling difficulty.

[Dahbomb]

What happened to Dante? Everyone forgot about him? In the consensus list I mean. Or obvious joke that goes right over my head.

He was listed in his own tier of "Ass" tier at 0 points. It's a running gag at the tier list, people over exaggerating Dante's worth in the game when he is clearly top tier.

It's still utterly incomprehensible to me how people keep placing Dormammu so high.

Start an argument on SRK or deal with it. I am pretty sure you can convince a few people there otherwise but most are pretty set on it. SRK generally seems to give point capability too much credit without giving enough credit to support which is why both Doom and Strider are High tier despite having top assists. Dorm is always going to be firmly placed in top 10 for Ultimate no matter how you dice it, it just depends on where you make the cut off for Top tier (2 characters or in my case 12 characters).

["God's Beard!"]

I can do that. You would have to main Firebrand/Iron Man/Akuma or Vergil/Iron Man/Akuma both on Repulsor.

Your choices are
Dormammu(purification)/Spencer(slant shot)/Magneto(EMD)
or
Morrigan(meter)/Doom(missiles)/Phoenix(trap)

[Frantic]

Vergil bandwagon is going strong, I see.

It's still utterly incomprehensible to me how people keep placing Dormammu so high.

I don't really get it either, but what can you do.

[Karsticles]

Start an argument on SRK or deal with it. I am pretty sure you can convince a few people there otherwise but most are pretty set on it. SRK generally seems to give point capability too much credit without giving enough credit to support which is why both Doom and Strider are High tier despite having top assists. Dorm is always going to be firmly placed in top 10 for Ultimate no matter how you dice it, it just depends on where you make the cut off for Top tier (2 characters or in my case 12 characters).

There's not really anything to "deal with". I'm pretty indifferent to SRK's opinions on things. There's no reason to give it any more credit than a GFAQs tier list. I just said I find it incomprehensible that an entire community could have this opinion. Especially while, as you suggested, placing Strider as only high tier despite arguably being the best anchor in the game (if you consider assist value).

In terms of my own feelings about Dormammu, I think he's close to perfect. I'd like for him to have better assist options and better recovery time on Stalking Flare, though. And for 0D3C to be made useful, along with the lesser liberations. Those are more about fixing his archetype than anything else. As one of the few characters that is oriented around planning ahead of time, it's just weird that one of his "final plans" would be so bad. If I had it my way, 0D3C would call down a big, tracking meteor that causes a hard knockdown, Vajra-style. Or call a spike that reaches all the way to the top of the screen.

[crimsonspider89]

I value both. Why I have Dante in top five and still do.


A character with absurd point ability will be like MvC2 Magneto when a team built around them. They just off of one mix up win the game. But then you have Sent/Storm type characters who have good assists but are good on point as well. Dante/Vergil/Magneto fall into this category and Doom/Strider a little bit.

[Azure J]

I absolutely love the running joke at SRK regarding Dante. :lol

Meanwhile, Vergil is that high up there now? Damn, I mean I know he's a demon for a lot of folks, but best in the game level on par with Robo Death? I think that's just a bit too high. Everything else I agree with though, although I do see Karst's issue regarding rating Dorm that high. Edit: Oh yeah, no way is Strider not lowest top tier.

Meanwhile, here's yet another team building question:

Just for the sake of getting better with the succubus, I've decided to play around with a concept team of Morrigan (Dark Harmonizer)/Dante (Jam Session)/Strider (Vajira). I have access to my personal favorite duo in Dante/Strider (dat damage, dat neutral game coverage, dem combo extensions), but I'm wondering how well Morrigan fits into this mold. Sure I get ghetto Missiles application with Vajira keeping them down in the middle of Soul Fist nonsense, but I also lose out on the guaranteed chip and OTG potential.

Ugh, I know what the right answer is (just play Morrigan (Harmonizer)/Doom (Missiles)/Vergil (Rapid Slash)), but I just like Dante/Strider waaaaaaay more than Doom & Vergil to keep at it currently. :lol

Oh, and random note of the day: Strider and the "Strider Vortex" is fucking stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Pick him up and learn to abuse dem tigers after a hard knockdown. You will not be disappointed. :lol

[Dahbomb]

Your choices are Dormammu(purification)/Spencer(slant shot)/Magneto(EMD) or Morrigan(meter)/Doom(missiles)/Phoenix(trap)

I will pick the first one. I don't play lame... except with Iron Man when needed because that is a requirement to play the character. I especially don't play Phoenix teams.

And it has to be in this order? I wanna play Spencer on point.

[Karsticles]

I absolutely love the running joke at SRK regarding Dante. :lol Meanwhile, Vergil is that high up there now? Damn, I mean I know he's a demon for a lot of folks, but best in the game level on par with Robo Death? I think that's just a bit too high. Everything else I agree with though, although I do see Karst's issue regarding rating Dorm that high. Edit: Oh yeah, no way is Strider not lowest top tier. Meanwhile, here's yet another team building question: Just for the sake of getting better with the succubus, I've decided to play around with a concept team of Morrigan (Dark Harmonizer)/Dante (Jam Session)/Strider (Vajira). I have access to my personal favorite duo in Dante/Strider (dat damage, dat neutral game coverage, dem combo extensions), but I'm wondering how well Morrigan fits into this mold. Sure I get ghetto Missiles application with Vajira keeping them down in the middle of Soul Fist nonsense, but I also lose out on the guaranteed chip and OTG potential. Ugh, I know what the right answer is (just play Morrigan (Harmonizer)/Doom (Missiles)/Vergil (Rapid Slash)), but I just like Dante/Strider waaaaaaay more than Doom & Vergil to keep at it currently. :lol Oh, and random note of the day: Strider and the "Strider Vortex" is fucking stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Pick him up and learn to abuse dem tigers after a hard knockdown. You will not be disappointed. :lol

What's Strider vortex?

Morrigan/Dante is beast IF you are willing to use Morrigan's Shadow Blade assist instead of Dark Harmonizer. Basically, end Morrigan's combos in a THC. Dante's Million Dollars takes so long to complete that you can land 3 whole Soul Drains (IIRC). If you have 4 bars and want to be a dick, you can even THC and then Astral Vision to land about 6 of them and steal a bar and a half from your opponent.

I think your team's biggest weakness is Morrigan being on point. The reason ChrisG has her on anchor isn't because she's a good anchor, it's that Morrigan is not good at creating space, only good at keeping it. So he always puts Doom second to DHC Morrigan in so she has a happy start. I think you'll encounter problems against hard rushdown.

If you can build enough meter during the THC, you can actually do multiple THCs and steal ~3 bars of meter.

[Dahbomb]

Strider's most basic vortex is just hard knockdown call Tiger and follow their roll option into a mix up. The combo that you then do also ends in a hard knockdown back into the same mix up situation.

He has way more vortexes than just that that's just the tip of the iceberg. I really want to make a Strider on point team, I love the concept of that character. It's basically a more advance, classic Viscant Wesker game plan where you are just going for resets/mix ups all day long.

The reason ChrisG has her on anchor isn't because she's a good anchor, it's that Morrigan is not good at creating space, only good at keeping it.

He doesn't have her on anchor all the time, he mixes it up based on team match ups. He uses Akuma Tatsu to create the space.

[Degen]

Saw Avengers last night. Hulk is the best; we were flipping out at dat throw spam

I need to rep this character online again.

[mr. puppy]

srk's mid tier list is basically a bunch of characters who nobody has any fucking idea about

[mr. puppy]

Your choices are Dormammu(purification)/Spencer(slant shot)/Magneto(EMD) or Morrigan(meter)/Doom(missiles)/Phoenix(trap)

these aren't your main teams. these are just the your weekly lottery of the top tier characters in the game that you like at the moment

[SolarPowered]

I don't see how Iron Fist and Shuma belong in the same tier as Hsien-Ko and Phoenix. They've both got good level 3s, Fist has some very good hypers in terms of invul, one of them has a fantastic assist(Iron Fist's dragon kick is solid at worst) and Iron Fist's fists have some very unique functions with the meter gain/damage boost.

They are not high tier, but certainly not that crappy. I'm also surprised to see MODOK in mid tier. No one is very gonna use that guy to his full potential at this rate.

srk's mid tier list is basically a bunch of characters who nobody has any fucking idea about

You are referring to the low/mid section right? Almost all of that mid tier has shown enough tech to keep up in tournaments so far. I could list myself how they are all strong or at least capable of winning, but that's a lot of writing...

[sephi22]

Uh. I think I'm going to be sick.
Vergil fans are getting as annoying as Sephiroth fans now.

And I say that with someone who once named himself sephi22. :|

[Frantic]

He has way more vortexes than just that that's just the tip of the iceberg. I really want to make a Strider on point team, I love the concept of that character. It's basically a more advance, classic Viscant Wesker game plan where you are just going for resets/mix ups all day long.

I've been playing my team in reverse - Strider/Vergil/Dante - and it's a really good team. Rapid Slash goes with Strider very well, and it gives him good combo extensions. It's also pretty good for the knockdown vortex. Plus, Legion > Spiral Swords is a good way to get damage from Strider's combos. As for Dante, Jam Session is good for lockdown and incoming mixups, while Weasel Shot is decent for lockdown and general mixups. Strider also goes really well with Unibeam, from the little I've played with Iron Man. The lockdown on it makes it the best beam to use with Strider, and since Strider does ass damage anyways, the scaling Unibeam causes doesn't really affect his damage potential as much as other characters.

Strider's throw range is also some serious bullshit.

[JeTmAn81]

I've been playing my team in reverse - Strider/Vergil/Dante - and it's a really good team. Rapid Slash goes with Strider very well, and it gives him good combo extensions. It's also pretty good for the knockdown vortex. Plus, Legion > Spiral Swords is a good way to get damage from Strider's combos. As for Dante, Jam Session is good for lockdown and incoming mixups, while Weasel Shot is decent for lockdown and general mixups. Strider also goes really well with Unibeam, from the little I've played with Iron Man. The lockdown on it makes it the best beam to use with Strider, and since Strider does ass damage anyways, the scaling Unibeam causes doesn't really affect his damage potential as much as other characters. Strider's throw range is also some serious bullshit.

Have you been doing the call Rapid Slash, Vajra H for a safe opening/full combo conversion thing that Chou was doing? That looked pretty awesome.

[Dahbomb]

Uh. I think I'm going to be sick. Vergil fans are getting as annoying as Sephiroth fans now. And I say that with someone who once named himself sephi22. :|

For the record, I wasn't the one who made that gif.

I don't see how Iron Fist and Shuma belong in the same tier as Hsien-Ko and Phoenix. They've both got good level 3s, Fist has some very good hypers in terms of invul, one of them has a fantastic assist(Iron Fist's dragon kick is solid at worst) and Iron Fist's fists have some very unique functions with the meter gain/damage boost.

I can't speak much for Shuma but Iron Fist is almost as bad as those 2 characters. Having a LVL3 doesn't automatically make you good and in the case of Iron Fist's it doesn't have a lot of horizontal range and has a lot of start up. Seriously speaking the best thing about Iron Fist is his assist but considering how bad his anchor capabilities are and the fact that there is another assist very similar to his and comes with a better character... it's not a good look. Basically speaking Iron Fist gets bodied by hard rushdown/anti-rushdown characters and he gets bodied by keep away. In the current meta game he is literally as bad as the bottom 2. Of those 2 Chi stances only Blue Chi is good because it gives him a bit more health to work with to get in with, the damage one he is going to use in combos anyway and same for green chi. He needs something in the neutral and more tools. Also his mix up game is pretty bad considering he doesn't have an actual low attack. I don't know what the hell Capcom was thinking with this character by making him a completely land based character like Jill/Wolverine/X-23/Felicia without giving him proper mix up options.

At the BARE MINIMUM... Iron Fist needs his cr.L to hit low so he can deal with up/back, his overhead having better start up so it's easier for him to pick up after throws and mix up opponents better, his Rising Fang be usable outside of the 3rd string in a rekka, needs a legit cross up move (either a roll or a shoulder ram from behind), needs Rising Fang to be air ok, a double jump and needs a vertical down dive kick. He also needs those chi stances to be better than they are in the neutral, like blue chi should give armor to some of his normals, red chi increases the block damage from his rekka and meter chi gives him slight meter on whiff attacks.

[shaowebb]

I don't see how Iron Fist and Shuma belong in the same tier as Hsien-Ko and Phoenix. They've both got good level 3s, Fist has some very good hypers in terms of invul, one of them has a fantastic assist(Iron Fist's dragon kick is solid at worst) and Iron Fist's fists have some very unique functions with the meter gain/damage boost. They are not high tier, but certainly not that crappy. I'm also surprised to see MODOK in mid tier. No one is very gonna use that guy to his full potential at this rate. You are referring to the low/mid section right? Almost all of that mid tier has shown enough tech to keep up in tournaments so far. I could list myself how they are all strong or at least capable of winning, but that's a lot of writing...

Iron Fist is pretty straightforward and easy to read with most characters. If he's not low tier he's around the bottom of Mid tier because he just can't do anything about teleporters and good zoning, but more than that the dude is just too easy to read. If he had a roll to cut distance with safely and to setup go behinds ...sure, but as is his dash( as bullet as it is) still can't contend with beams or most zoning tools in general and often people can convert that into full combos that equal death or near death. Maybe if he had armor on one or two rekkas or a reflect move he could change people's gameplan against him, but as is its just the fact that he is the most readable dude you will ever see on the field and that really pushes him and all his good stuff down to low tier even for me. Its why he has to have a lockdown assist to slow down their ability to respond so he can get point blank attempt mixups by throwing around rapid lows and highs to open you up and that doesn't always work which is why I see a ton of throws with him that aren't guaranteed to be convertable given his OTG properties.

Dude is a rough ride, but he's one of the easier ones to convert a hit into major damage with. Akuma Doom is likely his best friends.

[Azure J]

Strider's most basic vortex is just hard knockdown call Tiger and follow their roll option into a mix up. The combo that you then do also ends in a hard knockdown back into the same mix up situation. He has way more vortexes than just that that's just the tip of the iceberg. I really want to make a Strider on point team, I love the concept of that character. It's basically a more advance, classic Viscant Wesker game plan where you are just going for resets/mix ups all day long.

Sometimes, I feel like I cripple my Strider playing him as anchor. Then I remember how much fun it is to reverse OCV with these Vortexes and can't imagine him being in another position. :lol

He is like the Ibuki of this game.

I've been playing my team in reverse - Strider/Vergil/Dante - and it's a really good team. Rapid Slash goes with Strider very well, and it gives him good combo extensions. It's also pretty good for the knockdown vortex. Plus, Legion > Spiral Swords is a good way to get damage from Strider's combos. As for Dante, Jam Session is good for lockdown and incoming mixups, while Weasel Shot is decent for lockdown and general mixups. Strider also goes really well with Unibeam, from the little I've played with Iron Man. The lockdown on it makes it the best beam to use with Strider, and since Strider does ass damage anyways, the scaling Unibeam causes doesn't really affect his damage potential as much as other characters. Strider's throw range is also some serious bullshit.

Your experiment with reverse team order sounds like stuff I did when I would start Strider. On a team with Cold Star and Jam Session, he become retarded good. Also, shhhhh! Don't say anything about his grab range before people pick up on it.

Nothing like playing a bit reckless/derp and going Whatever - air series - OTG with Formation B - short hop & grab right back into the vortex.

@Karst - I really began to notice that although couldn't put it into words well regarding Morrigan and how she fights for breathing room. More than anything, I want two distinct teams, one built around my boy Dante and one built for optimal Morrigan play (not necessarily the best, but somewhere between the Chris G & the Byakoko). Everything right now though is just me messing around with things until I get a handful of characters I enjoy and play well.

The THC stuff is stole'd by the way. :lol

While I'm on the topic though, anyone else dabbling in or currently playing Morrigan get kinda sad when you consistently miss the air dash down H-Soul Fist-Unfly part of her BnBs?

I'd feel so much better about myself if I could hit that first rep of this.

[mr. puppy]

You are referring to the low/mid section right? Almost all of that mid tier has shown enough tech to keep up in tournaments so far. I could list myself how they are all strong or at least capable of winning, but that's a lot of writing...

yeah I agree, what i'm saying is that theres a lot of lack of matchup knowledge for a ton of those characters who may be incredibly good or maybe not so much, its just people aren't really sure. Its a big problem I always had with tier lists. I always though it should be more like
Goldlike
Great
Not really known
Not so great
Awful

That mid tier has things like Modok, Deadpool and Spiderman which like 3 people in the world know how to play.

Or maybe I'll do Deadpool/Modok/Akuma since nobody knows what to do with Akuma anyway so who knows what will happen

You know what, I'm gonna form a Modok, Deadpool and Spiderman team and see what happens. Any thoughts on what order to do with it guys? Maybe Spidey point,
Deadpool OTG, Modok beam anchor for starting?

[Dahbomb]

Deadpool is fairly known and in the previous tier list he was ranked a few slots higher. Plus the winner at kvo had an on point dead pool which was the best performance for the character. He should be at the lower end of high tier.

I say same for Modok and spider man but they don't have the results or the player base backing them up. They are both high tier characters bogged down by execution requirements.

[Professor Beef]

Put MODOK second. Deadpool makes a better anchor.

[Karsticles]

Walking home from class today, it hit me that Dormammu/Firebrand have a double ToD combination together: two characters guaranteed to be dead, but it costs X-Factor.

Here's how it goes:
1) Hit the opponent with Firebrand.
2) End Firebrand's combo in Dark Fire -> Stalking Flare
3) X-Factor Stalking Flare, charge 1D2C; you generally won't need to use it to kill the character
4) Charge 1D2C
5) Let 1D2C go right before the incoming character shows up, and cancel into Stalking Flare
6) DHC into Luminous Body
7) Stalking Flare provides enough blockstun to land Firebrand's unblockable - you have plenty of X-Factor time to make sure this is a dead character situation unless it's Thor or something.

It doesn't matter if your opponent blocks or gets hit by 1D2C, or whether the opponent blocks Stalking Flare.

Using other hypers to land Firebrand's unblockable is really underrated. For example, after you hard knockdown an opponent with Storm, instead of OTGing with Ice Storm, wait just until they are about to roll recover and use Ice Storm, and DHC into Luminous Body. Your opponent will roll into the ice and have to block, giving you time to charge Firebrand's unblockable.

It should also work with Round Harvest, probably Servbot Surprise, and Hyper Sentinel Force (?) in most situations.

srk's mid tier list is basically a bunch of characters who nobody has any fucking idea about

Basically, the way it has been since the game came out, haha.

Strider's most basic vortex is just hard knockdown call Tiger and follow their roll option into a mix up. The combo that you then do also ends in a hard knockdown back into the same mix up situation. He has way more vortexes than just that that's just the tip of the iceberg. I really want to make a Strider on point team, I love the concept of that character. It's basically a more advance, classic Viscant Wesker game plan where you are just going for resets/mix ups all day long.

That would be fun. If I weren't dedicated to my synergy-slaying main, I would try stuff like that out.

He doesn't have her on anchor all the time, he mixes it up based on team match ups. He uses Akuma Tatsu to create the space.

Certainly.

Your experiment with reverse team order sounds like stuff I did when I would start Strider. On a team with Cold Star and Jam Session, he become retarded good. Also, shhhhh! Don't say anything about his grab range before people pick up on it.

The only thing that I hate about Strider is that he has absolutely no synergy with Dormammu. :-(

@Karst - I really began to notice that although couldn't put it into words well regarding Morrigan and how she fights for breathing room. More than anything, I want two distinct teams, one built around my boy Dante and one built for optimal Morrigan play (not necessarily the best, but somewhere between the Chris G & the Byakoko). Everything right now though is just me messing around with things until I get a handful of characters I enjoy and play well.

I love it that this game takes so long to figure yourself out in. In most games it's like "yeah, I like that character", but Capcom somehow gave us this eternal puzzle unless you're a trenchcoat whore.

The THC stuff is stole'd by the way. :lol

Good! I tried LOTS of Morrigan/Dormammu combinations, and it sucks to find so much good stuff that I eventually decide not to use.

While I'm on the topic though, anyone else dabbling in or currently playing Morrigan get kinda sad when you consistently miss the air dash down H-Soul Fist-Unfly part of her BnBs? I'd feel so much better about myself if I could hit that first rep of this.

Yeah, it's real frustrating. In some way, I just have to accept that I am not an execution god. My talents are in yomi, reaction times, and strategizing.

[Dahbomb]

Karst with that four meter x factor 200% combo. I like it.

[Azure J]

Yeah, it's real frustrating. In some way, I just have to accept that I am not an execution god. My talents are in yomi, reaction times, and strategizing.

At least you recognize your strengths. I'm telling you, one day I'll feel so good about my play getting bodied by scrub tactics all the way through then I'll have days like this where I'm just immensly overwhelmed by things.

I mean why do I dread the Strider/Zero matchup when I know what this Zero wants to do (chill in the air and overhead j.H/Sentsuizan M-c.L)? Why am I afraid of Helm Splitter (j.S) + Rapid Slash like it's the best setup in the world? How am I letting myself get tagged with raw Stingers when I know how unsafe that shit is on whiff? Why can't I punish telederp more? (This one pisses me off the most because sometimes I'm putting in option selects just to catch them as they come up behind me and they just never beat out the things I want them to. So then I stop pressing buttons and miss out on opportunities everywhere.)

One of the biggest problems I'm having currently (that I'm even dedicating lab time to) is just wavedashing. If it's not getting crouching attacks (in my case Million Stab... yuck), it's getting QCF moves or worse, supers.

I just tried the actual d-pad on the 360 and I saw such an immediate and total boost to my play, but just because it hurts like hell to play with anything in the non-dominant position of the pad, I have to say nope and press on with "85% intentional" inputs.

The best matches I've had I notice that I control the neutral and literally hassle the person out of their own preset game plan making sure to never engage until it's brain dead easy to hit a combo off a confirm. Thing is, that only goes so far when you play someone who isn't really learning the game more than their learning how to get under your skin.

God I fucking hate whining like this. I love this game so much, but damn if it doesn't make you feel fuck awful when you can't keep up.

Which reminds me, I really need to step up my Amaterasu game. I'm tired of her basically being a free spot if I mistime a power slash/paper or rely on reflector stance when too many things are going on to throw one counter measure out at. Any Ammy players want to thow out a bullet point list for me to try and keep in mind?

[Grecco]

Dat Vergil Kool Aid. On the same tier as Zero? dat koooooooool aid.

[smurfx]

i'm so happy morrigan is wrecking shit at tournaments. i love hearing the trenchcoat users complaining about their characters not being able to do their usual op shit. capcom better not nerf morrigan.

[Dahbomb]

It's really more like Morrigan + Hidden Missiles. Morrigan alone is way more manageable and beatable. Missiles basically gives you near full screen control and it makes teleports risky especially the ones that appear behind the opponent. If only Shuma was a better character then he could shut that down.

Viscant talking about Wesker + Phoenix:

Because I'm not good with the optimal teams yet. It's better to have an A- level effort with a B+ team than it is to have a B+ effort with an A level team. If there's anything that anyone should learn about Marvel from me, I hope that's it. Wesker and Phoenix don't go as well together because... a) Wesker doesn't build meter fast enough on his own. Each clean hit generates about 1/3 to 1/2 less of a bar than it did in vanilla. Meanwhile Zero actually outperforms his vanilla self in meter terms. Same with Taskmaster. Same with Doom. Same with Magneto (given proper team construction). etc. b) Gunshot nerf is a critical nerf that people didn't appreciate enough at the time. But it changes Wesker team construction. In order to effectively use horizontal gunshot as a way to start offense you need a carry assist, generally some kind of beam. This not only nerfs damage from successful gunshots it forces you to use up a spot on your team. If you're going to pick Phoenix she can't be used as any kind of assist besides combo extension so you have to pick. If you want to use gunshots you need an assist like Hawkeye/Doom/Taskmaster/Iron Man/Chris etc. The only assist in this class that can work decently as a "get off me" is Doom because he stands a full step behind where you call him from meaning you can occasionally miss a block and get bailed out. So basically you now have to choose. Do you want your assist to serve as a get off me or do you want gunshots and zoning. Keep in mind that the character you choose has to function effectively as a solo operator because if Wesker dies in 1 hit (as he is more likely to do in this game than he was before) you will be sitting at about 2 meters meaning your 2nd now has to not only land 1 hit, they need TWO. The reason Doom shows up so often 2nd on Phoenix teams is that he is the most likely character with a good assist to do this. c) Unfortunately Wesker/Doom does not work as well as other setups. It's decent because you have two high tier characters so what's the worst that could happen assuming you're good with both of them, right? (side note, I am not in fact good with Doom. Oh wait, you already knew that. It is not for lack of effort, but I will likely never be good with that character. My life is constant pain and razors and suffering and sadness. Pity me.) d) Wesker resets were nerfed into the ground in Ultimate and almost nobody knows about it. You want the point character on a Phoenix team to either kill you in 1 hit or make the 2nd hit extremely likely to happen successfully off the first hit (Zero getting 750k without spending meter, building 2 and getting an almost unblockable/unreactable reset or drop-in mixup at the end is optimal!). Exceptions: Wesker/Spencer resets improved. Wesker/Haggar resets got way worse but are still functional. Wesker/Spencer is not a good combo for Phoenix. Wesker/Haggar requires you to hit the other side twice before they hit you once and you must be good with Haggar. I'm not good with Haggar. Crap, you already knew that one too. e and most important) Counter characters exist. Wesker/Phoenix worked in vanilla because the team was more or less uncounterable. The team lost to Zero/X/Phoenix and Trish/X/Phoenix and really that's about it. And since you had Phoenix you were no less than 60/40 to win anyways, and if you landed 1 hit you would probably kill their Phoenix and win for free anyways. So you could just play 1 team and win. This is VERY far from the truth in Ultimate. In order for Wesker to survive against Morrigan or Vergil or Zero he needs to 1 shot them. Phoenix teams don't let you do that. In order for Phoenix to survive against Vergil, Hawkeye, Strange or Strider you need to put her in better situations. Wesker can't do that for her. So they have to split up in order to make the best team possible. They will never forget the good times together though. Sometimes they'll call each other and talk and think about maybe meeting for a drink in Raccoon City or something but it's best for all parties involved to just not do it. --Jay Snyder

[Kadey]

Now would be a good time for people to don the Fanatiq or RayRay avatars.

[mr. puppy]

Viscant talking about Wesker + Phoenix:

this is barely the beginning of the complicated and absurdly difficult metagame for umvc3 that can't be boiled down to a simple tier list.

[Karsticles]

this is barely the beginning of the complicated and absurdly difficult metagame for umvc3 that can't be boiled down to a simple tier list.

In what sick and twisted world do I agree with you? /shakes head

[Kioshen]

Hey marvel-gaf ! Time for another "Please rate my team" episode. I just started picking up UMvC3 instead of being hyped on stream and slowly learning the engine. I never played a marvel game before so the learning is a bit steep but I knew that coming in. What I want to know is if I shot myself in the foot by starting out with this team.

Magneto-a, Sentinel-a, Taskmaster-a

I really like Magneto and Taskmaster as comic book characters and game play feel but I only picked Sentinel because Drones are supposedly the way to go. I wouldn't mind going with another character that's also considered as a "best bud" to Magnus.

The team seems to have, at first glance, a bit of synergy around DHC possibilities, good meter building potential as well as a good anchor from what I read. Am I doing this right ?

Information about bnbs are really all over the place too which is a pain but I did found stuff for Magnus and Task. Fly combos are going to be hell at first.

[Tobe]

Magneto-a, Sentinel-a, Taskmaster-a I really like Magneto and Taskmaster as comic book characters and game play feel but I only picked Sentinel because Drones are supposedly the way to go. I wouldn't mind going with another character that's also considered as a "best bud" to Magnus. The team seems to have, at first glance, a bit of synergy around DHC possibilities, good meter building potential as well as a good anchor from what I read. Am I doing this right ? Information about bnbs are really all over the place too which is a pain but I did found stuff for Magnus and Task. Fly combos are going to be hell at first.

for magnus do the basic flight combo which is LMHS j.h dash j.m xx fly j.l j.h dash j.h *repeats the dash j.h part*

for sent just do regular air magic series if you dont want to be fancy, but learn how to do tk rocket punch into hard drive loops.

also switch the order to magnus/task/sent or task/magnus/sent.

smurf can tell you about task since i just spam SHIELD SKILLZZZZZ

[Karsticles]

Hey marvel-gaf ! Time for another "Please rate my team" episode. I just started picking up UMvC3 instead of being hyped on stream and slowly learning the engine. I never played a marvel game before so the learning is a bit steep but I knew that coming in. What I want to know is if I shot myself in the foot by starting out with this team. Magneto-a, Sentinel-a, Taskmaster-a

Your team is fine, but your anchor should be Magneto or Sentinel, not Taskmaster. Unlike Tobe, I think putting Sentinel second would be fine since EM Disruptor gives him a lot of leverage.

smurf can tell you about task since i just spam SHIELD SKILLZZZZZ

Don't even pretend there's more to Taskmaster than that!

[A Pretty Panda]

Don't even pretend there's more to Taskmaster than that!

Spidey Swing.

[smurfx]

Don't even pretend there's more to Taskmaster than that!

his zoning is pretty good. :x