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DCKing
Member
(01-27-2012, 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by TUROK

Seriously?! How can anyone who knows their tech say this, especially after seeing what the Cell can do? I mean, just look at Uncharted's or Max Payne 3's animation system and try to tell me that CPU's don't matter.

Of course I was being a bit hyperbolic.

Cell is a completely different beast though. Most of its merits lay in its specialized design thar allows it to aid/compensate the GPU with many operations. When designing a new console with hardware available today, no engineer would consider spending silicon in that way again, but rather spend it on the GPU where it belongs. Seeing how the PS3 lasted with only one PPE (that's not the whole story though I admit) should be an indicator of how little general purpose processing actually matters.

I'm not advocating to completely nerf the CPUs, but it makes no sense to invest in them over the GPU if they are 'fast enough'. Which probably can be achieved by rather simple designs already. Let me rephrase what I said: general purpose processing should be of surprisingly low priority in the design of the next Xbox's chip.
BDGAME
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(02-02-2012, 12:45 PM)
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So, if the next XBOX is 6x more powerful than curent gen, and if the Ps4 become somethong like 12x the power of current gen, it only will be 2x more powerful than the next XBOX.

In the end, 2x more powerful is a small diference than XBOX had from Ps2.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
(02-02-2012, 12:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by BDGAME

So, if the next XBOX is 6x more powerful than curent gen, and if the Ps4 become somethong like 12x the power of current gen, it only will be 2x more powerful than the next XBOX.

In the end, 2x more powerful is a small diference than XBOX had from Ps2.

I'm sure after recent earning reports the day of bleeding edge tech is over. Prepare yourself for three similar systems ala the ps2 xbox and gc.
Caramello
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(02-02-2012, 12:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by BDGAME

So, if the next XBOX is 6x more powerful than curent gen, and if the Ps4 become somethong like 12x the power of current gen, it only will be 2x more powerful than the next XBOX.

In the end, 2x more powerful is a small diference than XBOX had from Ps2.

Correct.

Which is why I think the next round of systems will be very much a PS2 -> GameCube -> XBOX situation


Originally Posted by themadcowtipper

I'm sure after recent earning reports the day of bleeding edge tech is over. Prepare yourself for three similar systems ala the ps2 xbox and gc.

In general terms the GameCube was twice as powerful as the PS2 and the XBOX was twice as powerful as the GameCube. So the systems will probably end up even closer than the PS2 generation.
Last edited by Caramello; 02-02-2012 at 01:01 PM.
Xun
Member
(02-02-2012, 01:02 PM)
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This whole #x situation has got to end.

It's headache inducing.

I do however expect the Wii U to be better than expected, and more in line with the other 2 systems like the sixth generation consoles.
BDGAME
Member
(02-02-2012, 02:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Caramello

Correct.

Which is why I think the next round of systems will be very much a PS2 -> GameCube -> XBOX situation




In general terms the GameCube was twice as powerful as the PS2 and the XBOX was twice as powerful as the GameCube. So the systems will probably end up even closer than the PS2 generation.

Xbox is, at max, 3x more poweful than ps2. Ngc is close in power to xbox.

But they are all in the same generation in terns of power. I believe that the next generation will be like this again.
plagiarize
Member
(02-02-2012, 03:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xun

This whole #x situation has got to end.

agreed. people don't even know what THEY mean when they say 'x times more powerful' half the time.

i mean, are talking about the games looking x times BETTER or are we talking about x times the computational power. are we talking about new features that previous consoles couldn't do?

are we really making a statement to say 'the Xbox 3 is about 20% more something or other than the Wii U'? does anyone seriously think we can be that precise with all this hand waving?
Kenka
Member
(02-02-2012, 03:21 PM)
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All some people need to know if wherever or not they will entertained by the nex-gen machine.
That implies that the console and the games will be affordable enough for them so they can play them





Is there any configuration discussed here that allowed me to hope for that ? (tech noobish member) Is there somewhere in the wild the technology and the talent that will allow me to play gorgeous and addictive games that I can reasonably pay for ? Also, will my favourite series be on that platform ?

If yes, then bring it on. Don't give much importance to specs.
i-Lo
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(02-02-2012, 04:34 PM)
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I was reading that wattage for 7950 is somewhere between 150-200. I wonder if a customized version of that may be made available for the final product.
Shin Johnpv
Ninty Ninty Ninty
Ninty Ninty Ninty
(02-02-2012, 05:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

I was reading that wattage for 7950 is somewhere between 150-200. I wonder if a customized version of that may be made available for the final product.

No. It's not going to happen.
chaosblade
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(02-02-2012, 05:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by i-Lo

I was reading that wattage for 7950 is somewhere between 150-200. I wonder if a customized version of that may be made available for the final product.

Not sure if that's accurate, but even if it is there's nowhere to cut enough wattage off a 7950. That's already a 28nm part and Microsoft probably won't use a smaller node than that.
StevieP
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:10 PM)

Originally Posted by chaosblade

Not sure if that's accurate, but even if it is there's nowhere to cut enough wattage off a 7950. That's already a 28nm part and Microsoft probably won't use a smaller node than that.

There are some 32nm SoC rumours floating about.
claviertekky
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

There are some 32nm SoC rumours floating about.

For AMD, 32 nm process was axed last generation in favor of 40 nm chips.

Next generation of AMD (HD 7000 series) and Nvidia (GTX 600 series) chips will usher in a 28 nm process.
StevieP
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:17 PM)

Originally Posted by claviertekky

For AMD, 32 nm process was axed last generation in favor of 40 nm chips.

Next generation of AMD (HD 7000 series) and Nvidia (GTX 600 series) chips will usher in a 28 nm process.

It is likely that nobody will be using NVidia parts next gen. The 6670 and the 7670 are the same chip (40nm Turks from TSMC).

However, the SoC rumours indicated that it would be a similar design to the current 360 slims - which were a custom-designed joint venture (currently at 45nm I believe) between IBM and AMD. A similar design process could go into a 32nm customized SoC based on an IBM CPU and mid-range AMD GPU. They're not just going to take a Turks chip and call it a day.
Souldriver
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:31 PM)
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Speculation like this is so awesome to follow. The way "power" is being described is so devoid of any meaning for me. 6 times as powerful!?! Woaw!


Also, you've got to wonder how many times the three competitors (Nintendo/Sony/MS) adjust their own hardware plans, based on the speculation and information coming from each other.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:43 PM)
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Better have 16 boogerwatts of power before I even consider buying it.
StevieP
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:44 PM)

Originally Posted by PairOfFilthySocks

Better have 16 boogerwatts of power before I even consider buying it.

The new measurement is peniswatts. Keep up with the times, man.
Shady859
Member
(02-02-2012, 06:56 PM)
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Glad to see they are not gonna try to shove it out this year and in a time crunch possibly end up with another RROD situation.

I'll buy it at launch without giving it a second thought assuming CoD is releasing on it during it's normal November launch window. Otherwise i'll probably wait for the first after buying PS2 and 360 at launch. I'm not the gamer I was 2 years ago, i've got a long of list top shelf 360 games still to play. Online shooters and Oblivion/Fallout games have took nearly all my gaming time these recent years.
McHuj
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(02-02-2012, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by claviertekky

For AMD, 32 nm process was axed last generation in favor of 40 nm chips.

Bulldozer, Llano (VLIW5 GPU), and Trinity (VLIW4 GPU) are all 32nm parts from AMD. If there's an SOC for the next xbox it will (most likely) be 32nm as the process will likely be dictated by the CPU.

Edit: Although AMD just indicated that "Kaveri" the 2013 APU will be based on 28nm and GCN. We'll see.
Last edited by McHuj; 02-02-2012 at 08:16 PM. Reason: new AMD roadmap came out.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-02-2012, 07:00 PM)
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I wonder how many gigglebytes of ram it'll have.
DCKing
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(02-02-2012, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by claviertekky

For AMD, 32 nm process was axed last generation in favor of 40 nm chips.

Next generation of AMD (HD 7000 series) and Nvidia (GTX 600 series) chips will usher in a 28 nm process.

For AMD desktop cards, sure. Their SoCs are 32nm though. IBM SoCs will be on 32nm too.
Zabka
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(02-02-2012, 07:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I wonder how many gigglebytes of ram it'll have.

Probably like 17 or 80. Depends on how many manuflacturing traces get taped out on the mobo.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
(02-02-2012, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

The new measurement is peniswatts. Keep up with the times, man.

What's the conversion rate to Pikmins?
StevieP
Member
(02-02-2012, 07:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I wonder how many gigglebytes of ram it'll have.

2GB.

Edit, beaten above! lol

What's the conversion rate to Pikmins?

3.76 Pikmins per peniswatt
Ithil
Member
(02-02-2012, 07:28 PM)
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Fuck anyone who uses "___ times as powerful" in a headline.

Powerful in what? Which area? Is it literally the previous ones multiplied by ___? What numbers are ___ times bigger?

Absolute bullshit statement every time.
iamshadowlark
Banned
(02-02-2012, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by DCKing

Of course I was being a bit hyperbolic.

Cell is a completely different beast though. Most of its merits lay in its specialized design thar allows it to aid/compensate the GPU with many operations. When designing a new console with hardware available today, no engineer would consider spending silicon in that way again, but rather spend it on the GPU where it belongs. Seeing how the PS3 lasted with only one PPE (that's not the whole story though I admit) should be an indicator of how little general purpose processing actually matters.

I'm not advocating to completely nerf the CPUs, but it makes no sense to invest in them over the GPU if they are 'fast enough'. Which probably can be achieved by rather simple designs already. Let me rephrase what I said: general purpose processing should be of surprisingly low priority in the design of the next Xbox's chip.

You're way off base here.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-02-2012, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

2GB.

Edit, beaten above! lol



3.76 Pikmins per peniswatt

Well, Pikmin are what, 2 inches tall? So that's 7.52 peniswatt inches.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
(02-24-2012, 07:24 PM)

Originally Posted by McHuj


Edit: Although AMD just indicated that "Kaveri" the 2013 APU will be based on 28nm and GCN. We'll see.

Interesting, I missed that bit of news on 'Kaveri'. I wonder how much of a step up it'll be over Trinity.
Woo-Fu
incest on the subway
(02-24-2012, 07:34 PM)
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Next-gen doesn't really need that much more power than this gen. As little as 2x(360/ps3) would cut it when your target resolution isn't going to exceed 1080p.
Xun
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(02-24-2012, 07:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Woo-Fu

Next-gen doesn't really need that much more power than this gen. As little as 2x(360/ps3) would cut it when your target resolution isn't going to exceed 1080p.

Then in all honesty what would the point in buying new systems then?
chaosblade
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(02-24-2012, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Woo-Fu

Next-gen doesn't really need that much more power than this gen. As little as 2x(360/ps3) would cut it when your target resolution isn't going to exceed 1080p.

How are you defining "2x"?

Because 2x PS3/360 real world GFLOPs would not be a substantial upgrade at all. For the most part games would probably be indistinguishable from existing console games, especially when you consider how some people say current PC games aren't that big of an upgrade. And modern gaming PCs are over an order of magnitude beyond current gen consoles.
H_Prestige
Banned
(02-24-2012, 08:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Xun

Then in all honesty what would the point in buying new systems then?

Because that's where all the new games would be.
Jonm1010
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(02-24-2012, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by H_Prestige

Because that's where all the new games would be.

You don't think that if it's only a barely visible jump that most developers(I'm looking at your call of duties, maddens, and most multiplatform serial games) won't just release a barely gimped down version for the current systems for several years which will ultimately hurt sales on the next gen consoles because most dudebros and casual gamers will just keep their current system since the differences will be almost negligible and most of their friends will still be on this gens online system?

Or even worse most developers will just port up their 360/ps3 developed games to the systems with barely any graphical difference?

I think that would be a huge mistake on both Microsoft and Sonys part. They'd come out the gate flat and have to pray gimmicks and services will sell a 299 box for 5-7 years.
Last edited by Jonm1010; 02-24-2012 at 08:31 PM.
chaosblade
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(02-24-2012, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jonm1010

You don't think that if it's only a barely visible jump that most developers(I'm looking at your call of duties, maddens, and most multiplatform serial games) won't just release a barely gimped down version for the current systems for several years which will ultimately hurt sales on the next gen consoles because most dudebros and casual gamers will just keep their current system since the differences will be almost negligible and most of their friends will still be on this gens online system?

Or even worse most developers will just port up their 360/ps3 developed games to the systems with barely any graphical difference?

I think that would be a huge mistake on both Microsoft and Sonys part. They'd come out the gate flat and have to pray gimmicks and services will sell a 299 box for 5-7 years.

They could probably sell a box like that for $150 and still make a profit thanks to more modern parts/architectures :lol
StevieP
Member
(02-24-2012, 08:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Jonm1010

You don't think that if it's only a barely visible jump that most developers(I'm looking at your call of duties, maddens, and most multiplatform serial games) won't just release a barely gimped down version for the current systems for several years which will ultimately hurt sales on the next gen consoles because most dudebros and casual gamers will just keep their current system since the differences will be almost negligible and most of their friends will still be on this gens online system?

Or even worse most developers will just port up their 360/ps3 developed games to the systems with barely any graphical difference?

I think that would be a huge mistake on both Microsoft and Sonys part. They'd come out the gate flat and have to pray gimmicks and services will sell a 299 box for 5-7 years.

Suddenly, having Madden on the PS2 until... (what was it, 2008?) negated the fact that they released it yearly on all the current gen systems. Even with a smaller jump, the difference will still be distinguishable. Especially when it will play much differently due to the new input methods available in the box. Also, a gimmick is only a gimmick until it works.
statham
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(02-24-2012, 08:55 PM)
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doesn't 1080 need like a 4x jump from 720, and the fact of COD @ 600p would probably need a 6x jump to be in 1080p. I expect 90% of games next gen to be 720p with a few @ 1080p. and I'm okay with that (still owns a 720p projector <--might be biased)
McHuj
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(02-24-2012, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by herzogzwei1989

Interesting, I missed that bit of news on 'Kaveri'. I wonder how much of a step up it'll be over Trinity.

There's slides where they are projecting around 1 Tflop of performance. They probably won't hit that, but it wouldn't surprise me to have around 7750 level of performance.
DSN2K
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(02-24-2012, 09:25 PM)
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sounds pretty accurate to me, dont expect cutting edge from MS...expect Kinect to come in the box.
Jonm1010
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(02-24-2012, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

Suddenly, having Madden on the PS2 until... (what was it, 2008?) negated the fact that they released it yearly on all the current gen systems. Even with a smaller jump, the difference will still be distinguishable. Especially when it will play much differently due to the new input methods available in the box. Also, a gimmick is only a gimmick until it works.

I'm responding solely in the context of the posters 2x jump idea.

I am completely aware the reality will be a leap greater than that.

But under that context of a 2x jump the differences would not be great.

In fact such a small leap would actually be less than the wiiU released much earlier than the new Xbox.
Melchiah
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(02-24-2012, 09:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by McHuj

Edit: Although AMD just indicated that "Kaveri" the 2013 APU will be based on 28nm and GCN. We'll see.

Is that really what it's called? Kaveri is "buddy" in Finnish. =D
herzogzwei1989
Banned
(03-16-2012, 08:15 AM)

Originally Posted by chaosblade

How are you defining "2x"?

Because 2x PS3/360 real world GFLOPs would not be a substantial upgrade at all. For the most part games would probably be indistinguishable from existing console games, especially when you consider how some people say current PC games aren't that big of an upgrade. And modern gaming PCs are over an order of magnitude beyond current gen consoles.

Agreed. GFLOPs are not the only measure of power/performance.

Anyway, I certainly do not believe Xbox3's GPU will be based on the AMD 6670, that's insanely low-end and old. It wouldn't be able to run UE4 even close to a decent PC.
Type_Raver
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(03-16-2012, 08:30 AM)
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As others have mentioned already, its Wii U news indirectly and promising news at that. Underwhelming if your an xbox fan i suppose.

I for one looking forward to the next gen regardless!
polyh3dron
Banned
(03-16-2012, 08:32 AM)
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Ugh this sucks, why can't they go bleeding edge with the Xbox.. This shit will be obsolete by the time it comes out. Save us, Sony. I don't care if it's $599 US DOLLARS.
Raide
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(03-16-2012, 08:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by polyh3dron

Ugh this sucks, why can't they go bleeding edge with the Xbox.. This shit will be obsolete by the time it comes out. Save us, Sony. I don't care if it's $599 US DOLLARS.

If anyone is going budget priced next-gen, its Sony. I doubt they could afford another next gen launch like the PS3.
jump_button
Banned
(03-16-2012, 08:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by DSN2K

sounds pretty accurate to me, dont expect cutting edge from MS...expect Kinect to come in the box.

Bang on I still think they should had keep it from they next and not just slap it as an add-on
squidyj
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(03-16-2012, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

If anyone is going budget priced next-gen, its Sony. I doubt they could afford another next gen launch like the PS3.

It's a good thing they don't need to carry a fledgling optical format or a major portion of the development costs of an exotic architecture then. Trends in storage costs probably aren't too bad either.
pieatorium
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(03-16-2012, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

If anyone is going budget priced next-gen, its Sony. I doubt they could afford another next gen launch like the PS3.

It's been mentioned about a thousand times but going bleeding edge was only one part of why the PS3 was so expensive. The 360 released a year earlier for cheaper with comparable hardware.
Varjet
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(03-16-2012, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by herzogzwei1989

Agreed. GFLOPs are not the only measure of power/performance.

Anyway, I certainly do not believe Xbox3's GPU will be based on the AMD 6670, that's insanely low-end and old. It wouldn't be able to run UE4 even close to a decent PC.

Is it me or are you just really good at bumping old threads?
i-Lo
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(03-16-2012, 08:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Raide

If anyone is going budget priced next-gen, its Sony. I doubt they could afford another next gen launch like the PS3.

Rumours are that PS4 will be either on par or slightly more powerful than Nextbox. Of course that is in relative terms and the absolutes are veiled.
nasos_333
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(03-16-2012, 08:44 AM)
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IGN rumor is probably about the very early development kits, which means the final hardware will go through another 2 revisions at least and will be nothing like those kits

I expect something way above a 7900 series GPU myself

Now that 720 is confirmed to be a no show in E3, IGN rumor of taped hardware is a bit of a joke really, their "insider sources" probably meant just the very early development kits

Plus consoles may use customized GPU, so the base used means nothing much either
Last edited by nasos_333; 03-16-2012 at 08:57 AM.

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