It certainly makes the next few E3's worth keeping an eye on. To me it is more about what games they offer, so the tech they use is secondary.
More games!
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IGN Rumor: Xbox 3 GPU ~= AMD 6670, Wii U ~5x current gen, Xbox 3 ~6x, Dev Kits August
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It certainly makes the next few E3's worth keeping an eye on. To me it is more about what games they offer, so the tech they use is secondary.
More games!
yeah, a geforce 7900.
There's no way they'd make something above HD7900 their GPU. They're not going to hit another process shrink for launch, it can't be made feasible.
I'm hoping for something around a 7850-7870 scenario. That would be good.
If all my wishes came true it'd be
quad-core power7 ? i think?
4gb RAM
7870
Pitcairn (7870/7850) really does seem like a logical choice, though I can potentially see them going with a modified/updated version if we're looking at a Fall 2013 launch.
Yeah, I could see them potentially working on some sort of Canary Island variant with similar wattage and die size. For an end of 2013 launch. I could also see them not doing that just due to not being able to make enough chips in enough time to meet an initial demand for consoles.
It will probably be a custom part though, so even if it is based on 7870 will not be the same GPU
As for RAM, i expect 2-3GB
2gb is cutting it too fine. 3gb would be liveable but 2GB would be insufficient IMO. I know all about memory density and motherboard complexity but I hold that 2gb will be insufficient
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Then I see a split pool with 1 gig of GDDR5 and 2 of DDR3. That's a hell of a cache though.
It would be for certain engines, but console engines are mostly streaming ones, so 2GB would be fine for most purposes
Depends a lot on the speed of that RAM though, if it is a slow part will indeed not cut it
4GB is a stretch though, 720 will not run full windows, so they dont need that much ram
Really depends on the techniques you want to be available in combination with high detail models and textures and more unique textures and models some techniques are going to require more maps and therein likely more space in a deferred buffer or potentially a light pre-pass. Some techniques might take advantage of the pipeline to maintain lists of pixels maybe to better handle transparency in the renderer or for other purposes. Then you have the fact that your detailed models are going to want detailed animations so you've got complex baked animations as well as complex physics sims going on at the same time and that's probably just the cloth physics not even touching destruction of objects or deformation of meshes. Higher quality HDR, 1080p buffers, full resolution buffers for everything that you're doing at half 720p right now. It all adds up. Not to mention you're running all the stuff you'd have in main system memory on a PC in this same memory pool.
Furthermore these are just the clearly visible parts of increasing memory usage. THere are other techniques that may seem infeasible right now but who knows someone might find an efficient way to raycast voxels on a standard gpu (unlikely but serves as an example) and what with voxels being highly data intensive they'd require a huge amount of RAM.
That still makes them significantly stronger than current PCs. Look at what 512MB RAM and Nvidia 7800-esque GPU is getting out of current-gen consoles.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
This is what I argue boiled down. None of them have to be the most cutting edge of cutting edge to be made to sing beautifully.
My assumption is based on 720p resolution and 30fps spec
I dont think they will have enough power and ram to drive 1080p/60fps with next gen engines in xbox 720
Imo next gen will be about current engines in 1080p and new engines like Unreal 4 in 720p (or very narrow spaces in 1080p)
If they did go for 1080p and big next gen environments in Unreal 4 on consoles, then even 4GB ram would seem low
Developers are going to aim for 720p/30fps even if they can go up to 1080p/60fps. They'd rather push more effects on screen than push the number of pixels or framerate. I don't think we'll see as many 1080p or 60fps games (except in specific genres like fighters) as people expect, really.
720p@60fps should be the bar for many developers. If they can show off games that are 720p@30fps with all the fancy effects on, then that will be ok bit in 3 or 4 years time, is that really going to cut it? Soon find out!
dragonelite
Member
What is this 720p@30/60fps coming from.
If that is the case then they can just as well throw in the towel.
/Lost buyer no next gen Exclusive is worth suffering through 720p on a 4k screen.
If that is the case then they can just as well throw in the towel.
/Lost buyer no next gen Exclusive is worth suffering through 720p on a 4k screen.
So, how long till 4k screens become the standard in the majority of homes then?
sorry, when did this happen?
If you're talking about the bloomberg rumor, we've had just as many rumors to the contrary, saying it will be at E3. Not sure what makes this one more credible.
Horse Armour
Member
MS spokesperson said so, he's not talking about the Bloomberg rumour.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Don't confuse 720p with sub 720p. 720p looks good, even on big screens. You should view some HD movies in 720p, the resolution is not really important for image quality. The advantage of 720p/30fps is, it needs only 50% of the power you would need for 720p/60fps or 1080p/30fps. That means you can do a lot more with 720p/30fps.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
Just saw this.
I might not even bother watching the MS conference this year in that case. I think this is an oversight on their part, sales are down in the US and I don't think a price cut will remedy that. They're seriously underestimating nintendo.
pieatorium
Member
If you read the thread you would see that the initial comment was just a what if comment regarding getting visuals close to dvd iq and his follow up was that he would target 1080p and 60fps if he was making next gen games
If it's accurate, Nintendo's success or failure will come down to online services and marketing.
Gemüsepizza
Member
But he won't make next gen games, he is an engineer not a game designer. 720p has other additional advantages, for example many people do not have the right distance to their TV for 1080p, they would miss out on details. And there are even people who don't have a 1080p TV at all, only a 720p TV or beamer. And then there is the problem with 3D: Current HDMI devices can not output 3D at more than 1080p/24fps. 30fps? Not possible, not enough bandwidth.
dragonelite
Member
Gemüsepizza;36082762 said:
yeah and then what at the end go back to subhd and sub 30 fps just to get those extra performance/pixel or some more time dropping framerate to a average of 28fps just to get a extra 2 ms.
Its not what i expected of a next gen. Good thing i will have 600 euro to spend upgrade my pc . And with next gen using newer GPU devs will finally abandon Dx9.
Gemüsepizza;36082955 said:
Because he is not a game designer?
They dont even sell 720p tv here in the Netherlands or you really have to look for them.
HDMI 1.4 has enough bandwidth for a Quad HD(4K x 2K at 30 fps)
That is more then enough bandwidth for for 3D 1080p@60fps(that is 120 fps normal).
Did the calculation.
So yeah we can stay in the past or just go make that fucking 10 times jump.
from 720p@30fps to 1080p@60fps is a 4.5 jump in performance.
And then we still have 65% of performance over so that is a bit more then 2 times performance/pixel.
jump_button
Banned
if they get 3rd party on Wii U first and no one got a stronger first party then Big N, Every gen it always be the easy and cheaper not the over power that win every gen
I am talking about this
http://kotaku.com/5893685/microsoft-the-new-xbox-wont-be-shown-at-this-years-e3
Microsoft's full statement follows:
"While we appreciate all the interest in our long-range plans for the future, we can confirm that there will be no talk of new Xbox hardware at E3 or anytime soon. For us, 2012 is all about Xbox 360-and it's the best year ever for Xbox 360. The console is coming off its biggest year ever-a year in which Xbox outsold all other consoles worldwide. Xbox 360 didn't just outsell other consoles, it also outsold all other TV-connected devices like DVD players, as well as digital media receivers and home theatre systems. And in our seventh year, we sold more consoles than in any other year-defying convention.
This year, we will build on that Xbox 360 momentum. With "Halo 4," "Forza Horizon," "Fable: The Journey," and other great Kinect games on the way, our 2012 Xbox lineup is our strongest ever. This year, we will deliver more TV, music, and movie experiences for Xbox 360-as we'll make it even easier to find and control your all entertainment. And this year, Xbox games, music, and video are coming to Windows 8 so people can enjoy their Xbox entertainment wherever they go."
Same was also confirmed by MS France, which was before this 2ond confirmation
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-30-microsoft-france-no-new-xbox-in-2012
Cedrick Delmas, marketing director of Microsoft France, was asked by Lepoint.fr in a new interview (translated by Eurogamer's Oli Welsh): "Rumours indicate the presentation of a new Microsoft machine at E3 in June..."
His response:
"We're in an industry that talks a lot, that likes telling stories. I am not convinced that things will happen this year. The Xbox 360's cycle is not over at all. The proof is that we haven't price cut this year.
"Afterward, what will happen at E3, it's still too early to say. What's certain is that there will be nothing new in 2012. If we wanted to counter Nintendo, we would have to be in a position to release something immediately, and that is not at all the case.
"We're not here to counter Nintendo and they're not here to fight the other manufacturers. Nintendo has put itself in a different cycle, it's going forward to its own rhythm, with success as we have seen with the Wii, and now it's their turn to present their innovation."
pieatorium
Member
Gemüsepizza;36082955 said:
Yea he is and won't be making games so his comments especially the original speculative what if shouldn't be an indicator one way or another.
I'm not sure what you mean about missing details because of a right distance? and for 720p tv's they would just get a 720p image it wouldn't be a problem
bigtroyjon
Member
And they sent this statement out to not only a bunch of gaming sites but a bunch of non gaming journalists as well. This isn't something they would be doing if they were actually going to show anything at E3 so we can pretty much say without a doubt it won't be there.
I have a feeling we are going to get a huge dose of Windows 8 at E3, especially with them already talking about how W8 will allow you to take all of your Xbox entertainment with you on the go.
I have a feeling we are going to get a huge dose of Windows 8 at E3, especially with them already talking about how W8 will allow you to take all of your Xbox entertainment with you on the go.
toddhunter
Member
Specs actually look a little overpowered for me but I guess they need to be able to handle ports from future ipad revisions too.
dragonelite
Member
The ones with AA are highly amount of samples.
But if you would throw a FXAA or a MLAA variant filter over the 1080p no AA i think most would not see the difference against the 720p with high amount of AA.
What is High amount of AA do the mean 4xAA and higher sample count do they mean Super sampling or Msaa.
because after 2xSSAA on the 720p you already spend almost as much resources then the 1080p with no AA considering SSAA is just rendering at 2 times 720p.
Edit: Made a mistake in a hasty comment. But yeah like Horse Armour corrected me the 720p High AA(2xSSAA??)upscaled picture uses more resources then the 1080p.
To be more precise 1.78 times the performance is needed to get that 720p high AA frame then just the 1080p no AA.
Calculation just to be sure i didn't made a mistake.
1920*1080 = 2073600 pixels
1280*720 = 921600 pixels.
4*921600 = 3686400 pixels for the 2xSSAA rendering twice the resolution made the mistake before of not squaring 2 because we are working with surface area here.
3686400 / 2073600 = 1.78 times the performance per pixels. Not sure how precise everything work and if this math is applicable to this situation and if every pixels is oversampled.
So would people see the difference with the 1080p with Fxaa/mlaa variant filter vs 720p high AA upscaled?
Horse Armour
Member
The ones with AA are highly amount of samples.
But if you would throw a FXAA or a MLAA variant filter over the 1080p no AA i think most would not see the difference against the 720p with high amount of AA.
What is High amount of AA do the mean 4xAA and higher sample count do they mean Super sampling or Msaa.
because after 2xSSAA on the 720p you already spend almost as much resources then the 1080p with no AA considering SSAA is just rendering at 2 times 720p.
Wrong. 2x2SSAA has 4x the workload of 720p, not 2x. So it'd be around 1.75x the workload of 1080p.
Wolves Evolve
Member
A maximum troll position from two directions, well done. I would have also added "Looks like Nintendo games will look a little better, but that's to be expected."
dragonelite
Member
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
the U will be only 20% percent less powerful?
Perfectly content with that
Perfectly content with that
Thunder Monkey
Banned
DaSorcerer7
Member
crazy monkey
Banned
pieatorium
Member
Eh it's pretty obvious the 1080 no AA has jaggies and the upscaled 720 AA is blurry
I think the base loses detail at 720, otherwise yeah I have a hard time too.
AdventureRacing
Member
I'm usually the same. With those 3 pictures i can see a difference though. The 720p one looks blurry compared to the others and you can see quite a few jagged lines in the middle picture.
The lack of AA probably stands out more than the resolution to my eyes.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
The middle one makes my eyes cranky.
The other two look good. Bottom a little less detail. Honestly when we're at the point we are, just start slapping massive amounts of AA on it and I'll be good.
The one on the left is easily the best it has clarity and smoothness. Yet if I had to choose between the middle and the right I take it even with the blurring. You can fix the blurring with a better aa method and lod tweaking you can't fix a native res with no AA.
AdventureRacing
Member
I pretty much agree with this although i have no idea about the technical aspects. For me it's just a case of the jagged lines standing out more and being more noticeable to the eye.
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