[duckroll]

If it's a paradox ending it didn't even really happen.

Sure it did. All endings and all possibilities happen at some point or other, and then something else corrects it or tries to, only for the final outcome to be the same - the Goddess dies, Caius wins and reigns over Valhalla, watching the chaos overrun the timeline, creating the same cycle over and over again.

FFXIII-2 could very well be a closed loop, where no matter what you do, you are doomed to repeat endless possibilities over and over with the same final outcome. At least, until you finally buy a DLC which allows you to break the cycle and attain the true happy ending. :P

[Fimbulvetr]

Is the story non-sensical? No.

How can alternate dimensions based on divergent timelines exist in a universe where divergent timelines are specifically said to be disposed of every time they’re created?

How can Bel plan things around dimensions where he doesn’t even exist? Specifically. His plan was centered around creating the Chrono Cross to destroy the Time Devourer forever, yet the components for the Chrono Cross only exist in an alternate reality where humans don’t even exist.
How does combining two body switching devices create a spell that has the sole function of annihilating an anti-pan-dimensional being?
I’d make a list, but then my off-topic diatribe would take up more text than all of CC’s crappy pseudo-philosophical speeches.

So what. It works.

How?

[DiipuSurotu]

How can alternate dimensions based on divergent timelines exist in a universe where divergent timelines are specifically said to be disposed of every time they’re created? How can Bel plan things around dimensions where he doesn’t even exist? Specifically. His plan was centered around creating the Chrono Cross to destroy the Time Devourer forever, yet the components for the Chrono Cross only exist in an alternate reality where humans don’t even exist. How does combining two body switching devices create a spell that has the sole function of annihilating an anti-pan-dimensional being? I’d make a list, but then my off-topic diatribe would take up more text than all of CC’s crappy pseudo-philosophical speeches.

Divergent timelines aren't disposed of, as they're just parallel dimensions. What's disposed of are timelines that are destroyed by the act of time travel.

Belthasar had the means to trace other dimensions thanks to the Frozen Flame and his research. That's how he learned about the Time Devourer in the first place. He also had computers simulate all sorts of scenarios and outcomes in advance. One of the computers even has Radical Dreamers (the game/dimension) on it.
The Chrono Cross isn't meant to destroy the Time Devourer specifically, it just has the power to heal enmity ("unify people's thoughts") due to its supra-dimensional nature. So the Time Devourer loses its enmity and releases Schala, but by doing that it loses the last thing that was preventing its disposal.
Again that game is way too complicated for its own good and makes use of some big deus ex machinas, but it's not non-sensical in a plothole-y way. Belthasar's motives (and megalomania) were at least clearer than Etro's. The game also had more consistent and clearer themes than XIII-2, even if they were conveyed in very, very hamfisted ways.

[Fimbulvetr]

Man, I forgot about all that enmity stuff. :I

Again that game is way too complicated for its own good and makes use of some big deus ex machinas, but it's not non-sensical in a plothole-y way.

Aren’t deus ex machinas inherently nonsensical, in the sense that they pretty much mini-inconsistencies used to resolve seemingly unresolvable events?

[Babalu.]

According to the Fabula Nova Crystallis myth, Bhunivelze hopes to find the door to the invisible world (Valhalla) in order to kill Mwynn, which he thinks will end the expansion of chaos. He is obviously wrong, as chaos eats away at both the visible and invisible worlds and nothing can be done about it. In the myth, Mwynn dies because she is engufled in chaos. Only the goddess Etro remains in the invisible world. Although foolish at first, she pities mankind and places small pieces of chaos within their hearts in order to contain the expansion. So Bhunivelze, who is apparently the leader of all gods (he was called "Luminous" in XIII), asks Pulse and Lindzei to look for the door of souls in order to find the source of chaos (Mwynn, who he thought wanted to curse Bhunivelze after he tried to kill her) and destroy it. Pulse ("Stout") fashions the earth and sends his fal'Cie after the door, but they will never find it because the door of souls is informal and only opens when a human being dies (Etro opens the door to welcome them into the invisible world). Lindzei ("Sage") is more clever than Pulse, so he understands that, in order to open wide the door of souls, he needs to sacrifice a huge number of humans at the same moment. This is the reason why he builds Cocoon. In XIII, Cid says Barthandelus wants to recall the gods by destroying Cocoon. Barthandelus was created by Lindzei in order to be the "purveyor of the greater plan", the fal'Cie who would make sure Cocoon gets destroyed in the end. Fal'Cies of Cocoon can't destroy it themselves because their mission is to make sure humanity thrives, so Barthandelus has to find a roundabout way to achieve the destruction. After the War of Transgression, he moves the Pulse Vestige from Oerba to Bodhum inside Cocoon, hoping that Fang and Vanille inside of it would someday awaken and fulfill their mission for good. In the end, it's Lightning and the others who are turned into l'Cie by Anima, but the result is the same. The destruction of Cocoon would trigger the death of millions of humans and, thus, the opening of a huge door of souls. In Lindzei's plan, it is likely that this event was also meant to awaken him and the other sleeping gods. They would then launch a war on the invisible world, using the living weapons of the Arks. But as one of the Analects says, on the other side of the door they would only find Etro weeping. Etro knows that killing all of mankind would resume the expansion of chaos and lead all things to nothingness. It's all very well-done, although quite obscure if you don't carefully read the Analects in XIII or the Fabula Nova Crystallis myth. XIII-2 does a very good job at continuing this story. Everything we learn about Etro, Valhalla and the chaos is consistent with what is told in XIII.

Ok so I just replayed the final mission after obtaining 160 fragments to see the secret ending.

So from what I take of the ending, is this what is happening?

All the crap that happened at the end of the game after serah dies is all the people on the new ark somehow died and the giant gate is opening just as Barthandelus was trying to do all along in XIII? And now all the chaos is attacking the real world and the gods are awakened to reclaim their dormant falcies to use as living weapons?


So if they were going to make a XIII-3 or the DLC that expands the story rather then replay stuff thats happened most likely the game would be

noel/hope/sazh/snow fighting the chaos thats engulfing the world, trying to free vanille/fang from their crystals to help fight,

Gods running around using falcie as weapons trying to also fight the choas that they didn't know would ruin the world, maybe helping the heroes along the way to stop cauiss

trying to make your way back to valhalla to defeat cauiss or revert time back to before serah died, lightning turned to crystal, cauiss became all powerful.




After replaying the ending after reading some of the mythos that the game doesn't really explain, I could play a game like that to finish off the story and get a true happy ending. It seems pretty badass if thats how the story goes.

[Goli]

Ok so I just replayed the final mission after obtaining 160 fragments to see the secret ending. So from what I take of the ending, is this what is happening? All the crap that happened at the end of the game after serah dies is all the people on the new ark somehow died and the giant gate is opening just as Barthandelus was trying to do all along in XIII? And now all the chaos is attacking the real world and the gods are awakened to reclaim their dormant falcies to use as living weapons? So if they were going to make a XIII-3 or the DLC that expands the story rather then replay stuff thats happened most likely the game would be noel/hope/sazh/snow fighting the chaos thats engulfing the world, trying to free vanille/fang from their crystals to help fight, Gods running around using falcie as weapons trying to also fight the choas that they didn't know would ruin the world, maybe helping the heroes along the way to stop cauiss trying to make your way back to valhalla to defeat cauiss or revert time back to before serah died, lightning turned to crystal, cauiss became all powerful. After replaying the ending after reading some of the mythos that the game doesn't really explain, I could play a game like that to finish off the story and get a true happy ending. It seems pretty badass if thats how the story goes.

No, the door opened because Etro died when Caius made Noel stab his heart (the Heart of Etro), and that made the balance between each realm to be disrupted and thus chaos consumed the world. It's never said whether the people from Bhunivelze die or not, since now that the Unseen Realm's chaos is in the "real" world, life and death are meaningless.

[toleoring]

After getting all the endings, there are still 2 empty nodes on the Historia Crux map, one for casino, one for Valhalla. Apparently they are for the upcoming Sazh and Lighting's episodes.


So, only two story DLCs? I cannot see the TBC will be able to conclude through either of these DLCs.

13-3 seems inevitable to me...

[duckroll]

After getting all the endings, there are still 2 empty nodes on the Historia Crux map, one for casino, one for Valhalla. Apparently they are for the upcoming Sazh and Lighting's episodes. So, only two story DLCs? I cannot see the TBC will be able to conclude through either of these DLCs. 13-3 seems inevitable to me...

I believe they can patch more in as required. The major DLCs usually require a patch anyway.

[Goli]

After getting all the endings, there are still 2 empty nodes on the Historia Crux map, one for casino, one for Valhalla. Apparently they are for the upcoming Sazh and Lighting's episodes. So, only two story DLCs? I cannot see the TBC will be able to conclude through either of these DLCs. 13-3 seems inevitable to me...

There's always the possibility they make a patch that adds more nodes.
Edit: beaten :x.

[Supermanisdead]

13-3 will be amazing.

[Brazil]

13-3 will be amazing.

I want XIII-3 because I want more of this battle system. I can't get enough of it.

[toleoring]

From the ending CGI, it seems Noel and Hope will be the protagonists of 13-3 - if it ever exists ;)

That would be amazing...lol~

[The Xtortionist]

From the ending CGI, it seems Noel and Hope will be the protagonists of 13-3 - if it ever exists ;) That would be amazing...~

10 bucks says Vanille will come back to ruin things.

[kayos90]

From the ending CGI, it seems Noel and Hope will be the protagonists of 13-3 - if it ever exists..

Hope is going to be the protagonist? I take back all the bad things I've said about XIII-2. Give me more Hope! PLEASE!!!

[Supermanisdead]

13-3 will star dajh. believe. dajh is the future.

[toleoring]

Oh, also, when Hope showed up with a serious face and his Boomerang while others were holding assault rifles,...It was so LOL...........

[kayos90]

Oh, also, when Hope showed up with a serious face and his Boomerang while others were holding assault rifles,...It was so LOL...........

I expected him to use something less... lulzy.

[Supermanisdead]

it holds sentimental value. everyone abandoned him the second they were free....... :(

[duckroll]

I really, really don't think there is going to be a XIII-3. Working with the same characters and locations for 7 years is already a bit much for the core staff. Considering how much less XIII-2 has sold in Japan compared to XIII, I think even the management would be happy to let them move on to something new and different.

Even the game's Fragments suggests that the story will end with the Lightning DLC. The final stone tablet fragment on the steppes talk about a prophecy that says "when Valhalla covers the sky" there will be "a new star" that appears "shaped like lightning" which will bring with it the last glimmer of hope for the world.

That definitely sounds to me like it is referencing the chaos of Valhalla escaping into the normal world, and how Lightning is the only one who can stop it and undo the end of the world.

[rataven]

From the ending CGI, it seems Noel and Hope will be the protagonists of 13-3 - if it ever exists ;)

I would be very ok with this.

And throw Snow in there for hilarity.

[ULTROS!]

I would be very ok with this. And throw Snow in there for hilarity.

Or Alyssa.

Or Alyssa being the final boss will be awesome.

[kayos90]

Or Alyssa. Or Alyssa being the final boss will be awesome.

Oh the joy of killing Alyssa.

[rataven]

Or Alyssa. Or Alyssa being the final boss will be awesome.

Day 1.

What happened to her anyway? Little jerk betrayed me, then I never saw her again. Not that I'm complaining.

[Esura]

I would pay money for the opportunity to kill that little heifer. I liked Alyssa too before she became a backstabbing broad.

[entrydenied]

Hope is going to be the protagonist? I take back all the bad things I've said about XIII-2. Give me more Hope! PLEASE!!!

Even if he has a monologue in the new game about how he doesn't like to fight but now has to fight to save/protect whaever that he wants to?

Still would buy

[duckroll]

The Fragments suggest that Alyssa is already dead though. She apparently died during the Purge, but after the time paradox nonsense some slight change resulted in her friend dying instead of her. She shouldn't even exist!

[Fimbulvetr]

So her friend might be there in her place?

[duckroll]

So her friend might be there in her place?

I hope her friend's hot.

[Esura]

I hope her friend's hot.

Alyssa was cute so I'm positive she is too. Never seen an ugly FF chick before.

[The Xtortionist]

Alyssa was cute so I'm positive she is too. Never seen an ugly FF chick before.

[Esura]

That's a female?

Serious question.

[Bladenic]

The whole Alyssa thing was very messily handled. Like, super sloppy. Plus, I wanted to off that bitch. Oh well.

If XIII-3 really won't be made, that Lightning DLC better be substantial and amazing, as well conclusive.

[SpaceBridge]

I really, really don't think there is going to be a XIII-3. Working with the same characters and locations for 7 years is already a bit much for the core staff. Considering how much less XIII-2 has sold in Japan compared to XIII, I think even the management would be happy to let them move on to something new and different. Even the game's Fragments suggests that the story will end with the Lightning DLC. The final stone tablet fragment on the steppes talk about a prophecy that says "when Valhalla covers the sky" there will be "a new star" that appears "shaped like lightning" which will bring with it the last glimmer of hope for the world. That definitely sounds to me like it is referencing the chaos of Valhalla escaping into the normal world, and how Lightning is the only one who can stop it and undo the end of the world.

Im okay with this actually. If the Lightning DLC is meaty with a couple of hours worth of gameplay and they allow her to also jump around through the timeline finishing up those side quests then that would be great.

[Fimbulvetr]

That's a female? Serious question.

Yes.

[The Xtortionist]

That's a female? Serious question.

Please stop whatever you're doing, download FF9 off PSN and play through it.

[Thoraxes]

Please stop whatever you're doing, download FF9 off PSN and play through it.

.

[Dark Schala]

Alyssa was cute so I'm positive she is too. Never seen an ugly FF chick before.

I didn't know Freya was your type.

Please stop whatever you're doing, download FF9 off PSN and play through it.

<3

[Esura]

Please stop whatever you're doing, download FF9 off PSN and play through it.

I have it on PSN and a physical copy of it but I only played a few hours of it, I just don't remember seeing it...er her. Battles move way too slow.

Maybe I should change my previous statement. MOST FF girls aren't ugly...but there are always exceptions I guess.

[ULTROS!]

I didn't know Freya was your type.

Quina was a hot chick.

[Milkncooke]

Quina was a hot chick.

Sexy

[Dark Schala]

I have it on PSN and a physical copy of it but I only played a few hours of it, I just don't remember seeing it...er her. Battles move way too slow. Maybe I should change my previous statement. MOST FF girls aren't ugly...but there are always exceptions I guess.

All of the love and acknowledgement of FFIX in the FF Community Thread... wasted.

Quina was a hot chick.

[TheJollyCorner]

finally beat it last night.

overall I really enjoyed the game (despite my brain being full of fuck by the end), but one major thing that has been hanging around since:

From FFVIII on I've been able to stomach the Jballads/Jpop songs (well, X-2's opening made me embarrassed and I was watching that with no one in the room, thank god)... but this song at the end was really distracting. Just bad and inappropriate.

I mean, basically all of the emotion of what was happening to Serah was lost because of some dumbass vocal masturbation from a pop/r&b singer. Just when I was expecting the song to disappear so there could be a quiet moment of Noel holding Serah it just kept fucking going!

then all of the chaos. then an image of a weird statue/Lightning (?), then "To Be Continued", followed by me making this face: o___o



Kitase needs to cut down on the fucking booze and get a handle on this Toriyama maniac.

[Toth]

Speaking of Alyssa, on my second play through, I have noticed that whenever she is there when you are talking with Hope about fixing the paradoxes, she gets very quiet and looks away or down. It's a nice touch and good foreshadowing that she knows she herself is a paradox.

[Supermanisdead]

alyssa is a paradox??? what the f?

[Zoe]

alyssa is a paradox??? what the f?

Apparently she was supposed to have died in the purge.

Was that said in one of the fragments? It was never said explicitly in the story. I thought she was just selfish :lol

[Milkncooke]

Apparently she was supposed to have died in the purge. Was that said in one of the fragments? It was never said explicitly in the story. I thought she was just selfish :lol

Alyssa basically spells it out after you beat atlas and get to the graveyard. She talks about a dream where she dies and her name is on the grave, not her friend's. I thought it was pretty obvious that she was a paradox after that.

[duckroll]

Yeah, the Fragments expand on that, since there's a whole series of them which are her diaries. She basically talks about how she has the dreams she talked about, and how she knows that if the timelines are ever really fixed, she will disappear.

[TheJollyCorner]

Yeah, the Fragments expand on that, since there's a whole series of them which are her diaries. She basically talks about how she has the dreams she talked about, and how she knows that if the timelines are ever really fixed, she will disappear.

I feel shame that I completely missed all of that...

...and her betrayals to maintain her existence. That's actually pretty damn awesome and it's too bad it was just kind of shoved under everything else.

[hiljay]

I was under the impression that Hope took the crystallized Fang and Vanille out of the pillar before Cocoon crashed and he raised Buniberzei? How they actually went about doing that is my question. Yeah, since the time travelers are the catalysts for change, they cannot be affected by the aftermath or the change itself. They would know what they changed and the aftermath, though. But will not be directly affected by it like the people in the previous overwritten timeline. (Once again, why am I able to access the bad timeline when it was overwritten? Why do I have the power to do that? That overwritten timeline shouldn't exist and I shouldn't be able to access it once the XX version exists, unless I rewind time to do it.) And not a lot of people are going to go through the explanations to figure all of this out. It's kind of interesting I had to take Chrono Trigger logic and try to apply it to this story, when FFXIII-2 should have laid out the ground rules for its version of time travel.... if there were any rules at all. DLC and novels. ^_________^

Everyone keeps mentioning how the time travelers aren't affected, however, isn't Marle considered a time traveler? If she was, then her being found in AD600 shouldn't have affected her existing in AD1000.

Same with Snow. He was technically a "time traveler" so the actions of the others (Noel and Serah) shouldn't have affected him.

Whatever, the story sucked, but the game is so damn fun it doesn't even matter.

[Dark Schala]

Everyone keeps mentioning how the time travelers aren't affected, however, isn't Marle considered a time traveler? If she was, then her being found in AD600 shouldn't have affected her existing in AD1000.

She wasn't considered a time traveler yet by the Entity because she did not have the pendant or gate key on her at the time.