[Mael]

How else can you explain the "this one is more competent, but I like the other one better" paradox ? Shouldn't the more competent candidate also be the best one ? I mean, you're not choosing someone to spend your evening with, you're choosing someone to lead the country.

Btw the best candidate to spend your holiday with was Bayrou.

[Alx]

Poutou looked like a nice guy too. :D

[G.O.O.]

Sarkozy might be OK if it was about choosing a CEO, and a lot of people see being president as a sum of competences. But it's more than that. I think people see Sarkozy as someone competent but overall dangerous for the country, for several reasons.

[Mael]

Poutou looked like a nice guy too. :D

Nah he's more the best candidate to work with! (seriously Bayrou won that poll about the holidays...yes they made one)

Sarkozy might be OK if it was about choosing a CEO, and a lot of people see being president as a sum of competences. But it's more than that. I think people see Sarkozy as someone competent but overall dangerous for the country, for several reasons.

Huh, unless I'm mistaken we're talking about a job here.
And most of the problems we had during his presidency was more because the parliaments were a bunch of pushovers than anything.
And it's the kind of thinking that lead to people electing bad mayor because, you know, they're nice after all.
The question and have always been who is more able for the job, he can be the last asshole on Earth as long as he's doing a competent job and defend our interest well, there's no problem with him ruling.

[G.O.O.]

But Sarkozy hasn't even been competent enough during the past five years, so why choose him ? He had a chance.

It's not about choosing the nicest guy, or Bayrou would be on round 2. It's about treating the country as people instead of just a working force and potential voters. The far-right speech is a good illustration of that.

We vote for a person, not just for a program. Most of the program doesn't even happen, and in 2007 Sarkozy was chosen because he was dynamic. It doesn't work anymore.

[BaronLundi]

Sarkozy has done a very poor job as a President and as a Ministre before that. He's not competent, he's not able. Just (somewhat) good at giving the illusion that he is.

I'll recognize he did two great things : curb the violence on the roads and instating the QPC. That's about it.To compare with the fact that he made a mess of justice, éducation, police, immigration and finally of the presidential function itself. And I'm only limiting to important subjects.

Time's up, he had his chance.

Out.

[Mael]

But Sarkozy hasn't even been competent enough during the past five years, so why choose him ? He had a chance. It's not about choosing the nicest guy, or Bayrou would be on round 2. It's about treating the country as people instead of just a working force and potential voters. The far-right speech is a good illustration of that. We vote for a person, not just for a program. Most of the program doesn't even happen, and in 2007 Sarkozy was chosen because he was dynamic. It doesn't work anymore.

AAAAAAArg I couldn't disagree more, if we vote for someone and not a program we might as well do the election during a reality show that ends up in people choosing who will be the next King of France!
That's what lead in this freaking mess, because we choose people and not program and since we didn't choose them based on that they're not accountable for their mistakes.
If we'd voted for the programs instead of for the next King to lord over us, Baryou would have been elected by now.
The single fact that we're electing the Assembly AFTER the president means that the Assembly has no meaning at all, since it'll always follow the same shit of the election just before.
Jospin & Chirac did a worse number on the country than Sarkozy could ever dream off.

Oh and I agree on the assessment on Sarkozy, it's just that Hollande is not better AT ALL.

[Mistouze]

Sarkozy has done a very poor job as a President and as a Ministre before that. He's not competent, he's not able. Just (somewhat) good at giving the illusion that he is. I'll recognize he did two great things : curb the violence on the roads and instating the QPC. That's about it. To compare with the fact that he made a mess of justice, éducation, police, immigration and finally of the presidential function itself. And I'm only limiting to important subjects. Time's up, he had his chance. Out.

Didn't you get the memo? You should be shitting your pants because for some reason we're going to turn into Greece overnight if Hollande wins the election.

Being optimist really is a good way to be a rebel right now.

[G.O.O.]

AAAAAAArg I couldn't disagree more, if we vote for someone and not a program we might as well do the election during a reality show that ends up in people choosing who will be the next King of France! That's what lead in this freaking mess, because we choose people and not program and since we didn't choose them based on that they're not accountable for their mistakes. If we'd voted for the programs instead of for the next King to lord over us, Baryou would have been elected by now. The single fact that we're electing the Assembly AFTER the president means that the Assembly has no meaning at all, since it'll always follow the same shit of the election just before. Jospin & Chirac did a worse number on the country than Sarkozy could ever dream off. Oh and I agree on the assessment on Sarkozy, it's just that Hollande is not better AT ALL.

Notice that what I'm saying is what's happening, not what I endorse.

Also, you don't get something :
- "being president is more than a sum of competences" doesn't mean "no competence is needed to be president"
- "we vote for a person more than for a program" doesn't mean "the program doesn't matter" (even if I keep my stance about most of it not happening)

[Mael]

Notice that what I'm saying is what's happening, not what I endorse. Also, you don't get something : - "being president is more than a sum of competences" doesn't mean "no competence is needed to be president" - "we vote for a person more than for a program" doesn't mean "the program doesn't matter" (even if I keep my stance about most of it not happening)

But for the choice of tomorrow both of the candidate equally fail the competence test and the program for that matter.
We don't hold them accountable for 5 years and let them do as they wish it's no wonder we get hacks wanting to get the job.
At this point indeed might as well vote for the more sympathetic candidate because that's the only thing that seems to matter in people's eyes.

In short, Vth Republic is shit.

[G.O.O.]

But for the choice of tomorrow both of the candidate equally fail the competence test and the program for that matter. We don't hold them accountable for 5 years and let them do as they wish it's no wonder we get hacks wanting to get the job. At this point indeed might as well vote for the more sympathetic candidate because that's the only thing that seems to matter in people's eyes. In short, Vth Republic is shit.

That's a way to sum up the campaign.

[Computer]

You can watch the entire debate at the BBC's website:

http://www.jeanmarcmorandini.com/art...redi-soir.html

[Mistouze]

But for the choice of tomorrow both of the candidate equally fail the competence test and the program for that matter. We don't hold them accountable for 5 years and let them do as they wish it's no wonder we get hacks wanting to get the job. At this point indeed might as well vote for the more sympathetic candidate because that's the only thing that seems to matter in people's eyes. In short, Vth Republic is shit.

[Mael]

[IMG ]http://i.imgur.com/hXlB2.jpg[/IMG]

He would still be there with whatever constitution we'd have.

During the second cohabitation (Edouard Balladur's government), he was named deputy-director of Charles Pasqua's cabinet, who was at the time the Minister of Interior. In 1994, he was named general director of the national police. Under Jacques Chirac's presidency, he was named in 1998 prefect of the Franche-Comté region and of the Doubs department, before being named prefect of the Brittany region and of the Ille-et-Vilaine department in 2000.

Now this explains everything! I knew I had already seen that brand of racism before...

[G.O.O.]

Charles Pasqua, aka Monsieur Tefal.

[empty vessel]

and economy (which blows, we don't want even more debt).

If you want a decent economy, you sure do want more debt. That's macroeconomics 101.

[el retorno]

If you want a decent economy, you sure do want more debt. That's macroeconomics 101.

No its not.

That's from your new theory (which only I believe they only even maintain that on countries that have their own currency which france doesn't)

[Roronoa95]

Sarkozy has done a very poor job as a President and as a Ministre before that. He's not competent, he's not able. Just (somewhat) good at giving the illusion that he is. I'll recognize he did two great things : curb the violence on the roads and instating the QPC. That's about it.To compare with the fact that he made a mess of justice, éducation, police, immigration and finally of the presidential function itself. And I'm only limiting to important subjects. Time's up, he had his chance. Out.

I share your opinion. I don't like any of the candidates, we are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea - we've seen the devil, now let's go for the deep blue sea.

[Mistouze]

Charles Pasqua, aka Monsieur Tefal.

I remember when he was elected as a senator right on time to dodge problems with the justice. Crafty old man...

[empty vessel]

No its not. That's from your new theory (which only I believe they only even maintain that on countries that have their own currency which france doesn't)

No, it is basic Keynes, which was understood when all governments (including the US) operated under fiscal constraints. The difference now is that France has to genuinely finance its deficit spending by borrowing money whereas the US does not (because it can create its own money). But macroeconomics always calls on the government to spend money during a recession to increase aggregate demand regardless of the monetary system. This is why austerity does not work (and usually only makes the deficit worse). As a government taxes more or spends less during a recession (i.e., imposes austerity), aggregate demand drops still further and the economy gets even worse. The worsening economy in turn causes tax receipts to drop even further, worsening the deficit still more. This is exactly what happened in the UK:

Britain's leading employers' organisation warns that government borrowing will rise this year as slower-than-expected growth takes its toll on tax revenues. In its quarterly economic forecasts on Thursday, the CBI says the sluggish start to 2012 will result in activity expanding by just 0.6% this year and lead to a budget deficit £6bn-£8bn greater than that pencilled in by George Osborne in his March budget.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...t-deficit-rise

When a government spends more during a recession, it will initially run high deficits, but the economy will recover. The recovering economy will result in higher tax receipts and bring the budget back in line.

[Mistouze]

When a government spends more during a recession, it will initially run high deficits, but the economy will recover. The recovering economy will result in higher tax receipts and bring the budget back in line.

Not a very popular idea in europe right now...

[empty vessel]

Not a very popular idea in europe right now...

I agree, and that is precisely the problem. Europe can look forward to continued slow growth and high unemployment until it rids itself of its neoliberal political elite. Hollande is better than Sarkozy in this regard, but he is still, in my opinion, part of that order.

[G.O.O.]

A l'Elysée, le rangement, c'est maintenant

:lol

[Kurtofan]

A voté.

[Black Republican]

what time will we get the very lasr results?

[Kurtofan]

what time will we get the very lasr results?

Late at night French time, but we'll get approximate results around 20H.

[Mistouze]

Late at night French time, but we'll get approximate results around 20H.

Or a couple of hours earlier if you look at belgian or swiss media. I have a friend who wants to drag me to Solferino (where the PS HQ is) tonight, don't know if I want to...

[Alx]

A voté.
10 hours to go to the first (official) estimation. Although we all know the outcome already...

[Black Republican]

maybe sarkozy will pull a harry truman and defy all odds

[G.O.O.]

Or a couple of hours earlier if you look at belgian or swiss media. I have a friend who wants to drag me to Solferino (where the PS HQ is) tonight, don't know if I want to...

I'll be watching the results from belgian/swiss papers at 18:30, and if it's good I'm probably celebrating at the Bastille.

If it's not, I'll throw a few eggs at the Concorde.

... maybe I should go to Concorde anyway...

[Pacbois]

Going to vote in a few minutes !

I will be in a bar not far from Bastille with some friends tonight. Hopefully, it will be a fun night.

[UnluckyKate]

just woke up. Massive headheach. Can't feel like going to vote right now... Will probably wait a couple of hours before hitting the isoloir

[G.O.O.]

A few numbers are online on swiss & belgian websites.



excited !

[Black Republican]

A few numbers are online on swiss & belgian websites. excited !

gotta link?

[Kurtofan]

That's just for overseas though, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[G.O.O.]

Yeah, I thought La tribune de Genève was giving a poll from people who just voted but I think they're just giving numbers from older polls. You might want to keep an eye on their website though.

And it's illegal to post a link to a website that is giving the results...

[Computer]

There will be a shitstorm and a lot of hateful messages on the Internet if Sarkozy is re-elected :lol

[G.O.O.]

If that happens, I'm hacking the internets.

[Kurtofan]

There will be a shitstorm and a lot of hateful messages on the Internet if Sarkozy is re-elected :lol

I will blame GAF if that happens.

[Souldriver]

Well, if there are surprising results in Western Europe, it's almost always in favor of the candidate on the right spectrum.

People with extreme-right views often don't want to say who they (want to) vote for, or simply lie about it. That means the candidate who gets the most extreme-right votes does dis-proportionally well compared to the polls, which would be Sarkozy I presume.

Not saying this will happen here. But it has happened more than enough in my country (and from hearing the news in other countries as well) for me to always be weary about elections with lots of angry people and extreme p.o.v.'s.

[UnluckyKate]

I will blame GAF if that happens.

I'll blame French people.

Oh wait

[Computer]

A Swiss website claims to have partial results on today's vote.

Its name is how long it took me to finish Mass Effect 3.

[UnluckyKate]

A Swiss website claims to have partial results on today's vote.

From 20h to midnight on the first round, estimation were 2 points off.

It's only half day and even if I'm sure Holland is going to win, it's way too early for estimations

[Pacbois]

The swiss national broadcast published two poll results.

Say cheese.

[Kurtofan]

Let's be careful, it's still quite early.

[Funky Papa]

I hate Sarko, but I think I hate the French socialists and their fake leftism almost as much as that god damned gnome.

Blarg.

[Kurtofan]

Well at least Hollande is progressive on social issues.

I'm not sure other European main left wing parties are that much more left wing.

[ektoll]

By the way, is there a hashtag to follow the firsts results, like #radiolondres, it was really fun to read all the puns. ;)

[Kurtofan]

By the way, is there a hashtag to follow the firsts results, like #radiolondres, it was really fun to read all the puns. ;)

It's still radiolondres.

[Computer]

Well at least Hollande is progressive on social issues.

Big fucking deal.

Also, leftists (along with feminists and ecologists) aren't very tolerant. They love to prohibit all they can. You can't smoke, you can't eat junk food, you can't watch porn, you can't see a prostitute, you must have a certain number of women in your company, you don't have a right to think homosexuality is bad, and the list goes on. Most of the right isn't very progressive but the left also has their thought police.