[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

FreshAir interview with the author Paul Barrett

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/24/145640...apon-of-choice

A quick read, but a good one. Helps to explain the rise of Glock in America, it's meteoric domaince (and fall of S&W) in the Law Enforcement market, and with good research to back it up...also tales of The Gold Club in Atlanta
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0307...pt#reader-link

Based on fifteen years of research, Glock is the riveting story of the weapon that has become known as American’s gun. Today the Glock pistol has been embraced by two-thirds of all U.S. police departments, glamorized in countless Hollywood movies, and featured as a ubiquitous presence on prime-time TV. It has been rhapsodized by hip-hop artists, and coveted by cops and crooks alike. Created in 1982 by Gaston Glock, an obscure Austrian curtain-rod manufacturer, and swiftly adopted by the Austrian army, the Glock pistol, with its lightweight plastic frame and large-capacity spring-action magazine, arrived in America at a fortuitous time. Law enforcement agencies had concluded that their agents and officers, armed with standard six-round revolvers, were getting "outgunned" by drug dealers with semi-automatic pistols. They needed a new gun. When Karl Water, a firearm salesman based in the U.S. first saw a Glock in 1984, his reaction was, “Jeez, that’s ugly.” But the advantages of the pistol soon became apparent. The standard semi-automatic Glock could fire as many as 17 bullets from its magazine without reloading (one equipped with an extended thirty-three cartridge magazine was used in Tucson to shoot Gabrielle Giffords and 19 others). It was built with only 36 parts that were interchangeable with those of other models. You could drop it underwater, toss it from a helicopter, or leave it out in the snow, and it would still fire. It was reliable, accurate, lightweight, and cheaper to produce than Smith and Wesson’s revolver. Made in part of hardened plastic, it was even rumored (incorrectly) to be invisible to airport security screening. Filled with corporate intrigue, political maneuvering, Hollywood glitz, bloody shoot-outs—and an attempt on Gaston Glock’s life by a former lieutenant—Glock is at once the inside account of how Glock the company went about marketing its pistol to police agencies and later the public, as well as a compelling chronicle of the evolution of gun culture in America.

For the record I actually don't really like Glocks myself.

[strafer]

"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol."

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol."

They mention that and the (wildly incorrect) Die Hard 2 quote in the book.

[strafer]

They mention that and the (wildly incorrect) Die Hard 2 quote in the book.

Eh, US. Marshals.

[Cyan]

Glock: The Rise of America's Gun by Paul Barrett

So close!

[Neuromancer]

Big Glock fan here. Learned to shoot with a Glock 19, and I carry a Glock 26 every day. I have a copy of the book but I haven't started it yet.

[poppabk]

For the record I actually don't really like Glocks myself.

I've never fired one but I don't like the look and feel of them.

[Neuromancer]

I've never fired one but I don't like the look and feel of them.

I had an instructor who jokingly called them Blocks.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Eh, US. Marshals.

Hence what I said
"They mention that and the (wildly incorrect) Die Hard 2 quote"

[Noise Pollution]

I hate glocks. 1911 for life.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I hate glocks. 1911 for life.

I don't hate Glocks, I just really dislike how they look and are built. They make the Grease Gun look like a work of art! lol

[Noise Pollution]

I don't hate Glocks, I just really dislike how they look and are built. They make the Grease Gun look like a work of art! lol

the grease gun is a work of art, and that sound it makes *swoon*

[ChanHuk]

I own a Springfield XD, if I did it again, I'd go for S&W M&P lineup. The trigger pull is so much better than my XD.

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I've never fired a gun, but I always thought the M1911 was a cool looking gun. Cause Frank Castle used those.

Glocks look kinda neat too.

[WARCOCK]

america's gun is not even american! lololol

[Flo_Evans]

Glocks are like the toyota corolla of guns. You can't really make a rational argument against owning one but they are just so boring.

[Chichikov]

They mention that and the (wildly incorrect) Die Hard 2 quote in the book.

I used to own a Glock, and yeah, I was quite surprised at how many people just accept that rather silly quote as fact.
Though it wasn't quite as bad as the Helsinki Syndrome thing.

[LuCkymoON]

Amazing how they got away with proliferation during the ban.

[ElectricBlue187]

Glocks are like the toyota corolla of guns. You can't really make a rational argument against owning one but they are just so boring.

This. They are extremely utilitarian. If you want a gun Americans are in love with, see Beretta

[Shadybiz]

Though it wasn't quite as bad as the Helsinki Syndrome thing.

...As in...Helsinki Sweden.

Never fired a Glock myself. I own a Springfield XD; I think the big dealbreaker was the lack of safety measures on the gun. Obviously, no gun is "safe," but the Springfield had more "safeish" features than the Glock.

Hell of a gun though; no one I know who has fired one has a bad thing to say about them.

[Sabotage]

[J-Rzez]

I never liked them, and out of the most widely used and popular semi-auto groups (Glock, Springfield, HK, and Sig) they're the least reliable. The Gen 4 or whatever the newest ones are feel a bit more comfy to handle now at least, yet still not quite there in feel. People think that they're the first composite frame pistol, but they're not. They're the cheapest (usually the best dept buy deals) thus they're the most used I believe, and that's the only reason. I'll take a HK, Sig, and Springfield (in that order) before a Glock any day of the week.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

...As in...Helsinki Sweden. Never fired a Glock myself. I own a Springfield XD; I think the big dealbreaker was the lack of safety measures on the gun. Obviously, no gun is "safe," but the Springfield had more "safeish" features than the Glock. Hell of a gun though; no one I know who has fired one has a bad thing to say about them.

Its interesting just how many NDs with Glocks that happened when a department would first get them. Heck there is even a term for it "Glock Leg". DC had a ridiculous number, I can't recall offhand, but it wasn't small. That said DC range time for cops was insanely shoet. NY even eventually had their own trigger designed for their Glocks.

[PoweredBySoy]

I haven't had too much time at a range, but I've never liked the way Glocks fired. Felt clunky. Awkward.

Sig 4 lyfe.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I haven't had too much time at a range, but I've never liked the way Glocks fired. Felt clunky. Awkward. Sig 4 lyfe.

I liked the Sig when I had a chance to fire it once. I've tried a couple of different Glocks but I've never been to enamored by them. My dad and I both tried out a Glock 26, but we both really disliked the feel of it when shooting.

[andycapps]

I never liked them, and out of the most widely used and popular semi-auto groups (Glock, Springfield, HK, and Sig) they're the least reliable. The Gen 4 or whatever the newest ones are feel a bit more comfy to handle now at least, yet still not quite there in feel. People think that they're the first composite frame pistol, but they're not. They're the cheapest (usually the best dept buy deals) thus they're the most used I believe, and that's the only reason. I'll take a HK, Sig, and Springfield (in that order) before a Glock any day of the week.

That's bullshit that those guns are more reliable. Springfield may come close or be comparable, but no way are Glocks less reliable than all of those. But I do like, and want a Sig. Those are all great guns.

I like my model 23. It's not going to win any beauty contests, but that's not really why I have a gun.

america's gun is not even american! lololol

It's made in the US, designed in Austria.

[Neuromancer]

Never fired a Glock myself. I own a Springfield XD; I think the big dealbreaker was the lack of safety measures on the gun. Obviously, no gun is "safe," but the Springfield had more "safeish" features than the Glock.

This is my safety

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Wow, Manos hasn't been banned.

[Hawkian]

...As in...Helsinki Sweden.

man, what

why don't I know this story

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Wow, Manos hasn't been banned.

Well not anymore.

[andycapps]

Well not anymore.

Was that the first or second time?

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Was that the first or second time?

The second, well recently.

[SteveWD40]

Durable too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ENZioGLjMI

[andycapps]

The second, well recently.

Better watch your step, haha

[speculawyer]

I find it sad that so much of the patriotic "rah rah, we are the 'real America'" crowd rallies around a foreign gun. C'mon. We do make a lot of guns here. Can't we do well in that market?

[LosDaddie]

I love my Glock .40, but I don't fantasize about guns like a lot of people do. I take the wife to the local range about once a month to keep our aim straight.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I find it sad that so much of the patriotic "rah rah, we are the 'real America'" crowd rallies around a foreign gun. C'mon. We do make a lot of guns here. Can't we do well in that market?

The book talks about that. In short blame Smith and Wesson for being idiots.

[Shadybiz]

man, what why don't I know this story

Ah, it's a line from Die Hard. Couldn't find a youtube link; I guess copyright stuff.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Ah, it's a line from Die Hard. Couldn't find a youtube link; I guess copyright stuff.

You've never seen Die Hard?

[animlboogy]

For those of you critiquing the Glock, this book is a pretty even take on the gun, and the exact reasons why it found so much love in the U.S. marketplace. It's fascinating if you're a fan of the gun or not.

S&W really did themselves in, basically. Things are different now, but at that time it seems like a lot of manufacturers just weren't up to the task. Even the idea that revolvers weren't the future for U.S. law enforcement seems to have just not sunk in until it was too late.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

For those of you critiquing the Glock, this book is a pretty even take on the gun, and the exact reasons why it found so much love in the U.S. marketplace. It's fascinating if you're a fan of the gun or not.

I agree, which is why I liked it so much. It helped explained why it took over the market. Funny enough I was hoping for some well researched book with n explanation to come out, but I figured it was never happening, imagine my surprise when I heard about this book!

S&W really did themselves in, basically. Things are different now, but at that time it seems like a lot of manufacturers just weren't up to the task. Even the idea that revolvers weren't the future for U.S. law enforcement seems to have just not sunk in until it was too late.

It's insane they thought TAURUS was the biggest threat!

[alphaNoid]

I'm shopping a Glock 19 vs a S&W M&P 9 right now ... I think I may get the M&P based on the grip angle. Glocks are fantastic weapons, but if its not comfortable to hold.. I cannot buy.

[Chichikov]

Never fired a Glock myself. I own a Springfield XD; I think the big dealbreaker was the lack of safety measures on the gun. Obviously, no gun is "safe," but the Springfield had more "safeish" features than the Glock.

There are plenty of safety measures on the Glock, just not a manual safety.
Glocks are safe if you don't walk around with a bullet in the chamber, and you shuoldn't be doing that anyway.

[Razgriz-Specter]

I hate glocks. 1911 for life.

The 1911 ww2 era model is my favorite weapon of all time. Looking into buying one actually.

I find it sad that so much of the patriotic "rah rah, we are the 'real America'" crowd rallies around a foreign gun. C'mon. We do make a lot of guns here. Can't we do well in that market?

actually America made some of the best weapons but never wants to adopt newer stuff. Germany is probably the best right now because most of our stuff is in some portion made/designed in other countries.
FN SCAR-Belgium
M416- Germany
M240- Belgium / America
M4/M16- America
M92- Italy

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

There are plenty of safety measures on the Glock, just not a manual safety. Glocks are safe if you don't walk around with a bullet in the chamber, and you shuoldn't be doing that anyway.

Except that's how many Americans carry and are trained in CCW classes, which the book talks about. Gaston flipped at hearing that. The idea is, well how Massad Ayoob explained it in one of his books, it is in the time you need to react many people (and police) had issues with not remembering to take the safety off and also then needing to chamber a round.

Myself until I have more training and experience don't carry even mag loaded, mags in my other pocked. Though I really only carry when going to the range (so I didn't have to carry as much in containers and then it's often open unless it's cold and I have a coat on)...and a brief time in December when I wanted to see how it effect my clothing and driving and even then it was only a few times. I learned I just cannot hope to CCW a 1911 or 92FS comfortably...or I'd need to buy a good shoulder or chest holster. Before people say subcompact...I tried the Glock 26 and I briefly had an XD9sc (hated the safety paddle on my hands webbing) and with my sized hands even with flush mag...it doesn't work (plus I dislike the barrel being barely past my hand). Perhaps with compact vs subcompact it might change things.

That said I really want a revolver for my next handgun.

[animlboogy]

It's insane they thought TAURUS was the biggest threat!

Yeah, it's a great example of how insular business cultures can undermine a market leader quickly. Their paranoia about Taurus was clearly due to their own hubris, thinking that another manufacturer with inside knowledge of their process would be the biggest threat possible instead of keeping their ear to the ground for what was actually happening.

[Shadybiz]

You've never seen Die Hard?

Many, many times. I was responding to Hawkian's post.

Edit: I'm with you on the subcompact as well...I just don't think I could feel comfortable with anything that small. I'm also contemplating revolvers; thinking about maybe a .38 for my next purchase, not sure what maker, though.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Edit: I'm with you on the subcompact as well...I just don't think I could feel comfortable with anything that small.

Yeah, it just doesn't work for me.

[Chichikov]

Except that's how many Americans carry and are trained in CCW classes, which the book talks about. Gaston flipped at hearing that. The idea is, well how Massad Ayoob explained it in one of his books, it is in the time you need to react many people (and police) had issues with not remembering to take the safety off and also then needing to chamber a round.

This is crazy.
Wait, did Plax had a glock?
It all makes sense now.

Myself until I have more training and experience don't carry even mag loaded, mags in my other pocked. Though I really only carry when going to the range (so I didn't have to carry as much in containers and then it's often open unless it's cold and I have a coat on)...and a brief time in December when I wanted to see how it effect my clothing and driving and even then it was only a few times. I learned I just cannot hope to CCW a 1911 or 92FS comfortably...or I'd need to buy a good shoulder or chest holster. Before people say subcompact...I tried the Glock 26 and I briefly had an XD9sc (hated the safety paddle on my hands webbing) and with my sized hands even with flush mag...it doesn't work (plus I dislike the barrel being barely past my hand). Perhaps with compact vs subcompact it might change things.

Why do you want to CCW?
I'm honestly curious.

[squidyj]

america's gun is not even american! lololol

Sort of like Apple pie.