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PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-28-2012, 07:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by DryEyeRelief

Do you think Sherry is downplaying it?

It's not as if Sherry would have seen much of it anyways given that they were pretty much always in different rooms.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime


The only two that really seemed to have a problem was Valle and Miranda and if she is saying no when someone actually tried to defend her like Star then why should the others if they are indeed cool with it try to force her to admit to something she claims isn't bothering her?

This problem is with Aris and Miranda and I don't see why others should be dragged through it with them.

I think the beef with Star is a personal thing unrelated to this. There were other people talking about the harassment on twitter that she wasn't blowing up.

I might have agreed that no one else could have known anything was happening until the infamous voicecall with Jared/Haunts/Aris---she's pretty vocal that Aris has crossed a line that she feels uncomfortable with. If no one sought to intervene after that, well....
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 07:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

It's not as if Sherry would have seen much of it anyways given that they were pretty much always in different rooms.

I call bullshit on this.

Aris was pretty universal when he was giving her shit and certainly didn't keep it locked down to the Tekken room. Between him giving Sherry shit and all the times like lunch and other times when the groups where together it's just not possible.

Even less so when Star noticed it and wasn't even there.
Wallach
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(02-28-2012, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by DryEyeRelief

Do you think Sherry is downplaying it?

Sherry wasn't downplaying the harassment that Aris put forward, she was saying she didn't believe Aris would have continued to levy it if she had been more blunt with him. I don't think Sherry was lying when she said that, but I think what we all saw on stream was evidence that indicates she was probably wrong on some level.
jbug617
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(02-28-2012, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

I think the beef with Star is a personal thing unrelated to this. There were other people talking about the harassment on twitter that she wasn't blowing up.

I might have agreed that no one else could have known anything was happening until the infamous voicecall with Jared/Haunts/Aris---she's pretty vocal that Aris has crossed a line that she feels uncomfortable with. If no one sought to intervene after that, well....

Well Aris really didn't bother her after that.
OddMorsel
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(02-28-2012, 07:18 AM)
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This is all really embarrassing and continues to expose the FGC as a group of man-children still stuck in a high school mentality, and further proof that some people really do not deserve to be given an audience.

I sincerely hope Gootecks doesn't bring any of this garbage onto Cross Counter. At least let one or two of the voices in the community retain some semblance of maturity.

I love a good rivalry and even some beef here and there, but it's like Cross Assault opened the floodgates to the biggest shower of shit the FGC has ever seen. It's just embarrassing.
Bizazedo
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(02-28-2012, 07:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by odd_morsel

This is all really embarrassing and continues to expose the FGC as a group of man-children still stuck in a high school mentality, and further proof that some people really do not deserve to be given an audience.

I sincerely hope Gootecks doesn't bring any of this garbage onto Cross Counter. At least let one or two of the voices in the community retain some semblance of maturity.

I love a good rivalry and even some beef here and there, but it's like Cross Assault opened the floodgates to the biggest shower of shit the FGC has ever seen. It's just embarrassing.

There's no way he doesn't bring this up. Dude wants to monetize fighting games and this is THE topic right now. Ross was even saying he had to save stuff for Cross Counter.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
(02-28-2012, 07:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

Maybe, but when most people consider the stuff that went on tonight mostly negative, you don't just come and say in a public forum that the thing in question was "marketing gold".

Even if you secretly love what happened despite the cost to the people involved, saying it in a public forum is another thing entirely.

I never said the thing in question was marketing gold. The contract thing between Team SF and Team TK, Ono in a Blanka suit, crazy megaman- that was what I was referring to as marketing gold.
Last edited by Eight Diagram Bat Fighter; 02-28-2012 at 07:26 AM.
Aedile
Member
(02-28-2012, 07:25 AM)

Originally Posted by Wallach

The implication that "nobody knew" at Capcom and co. is so absurd that it's pretty much not worth considering. It's more of a question of why weren't there people there who's job it was to look out for the players well-being; if there were people there for that purpose, then why they didn't do their job. Unfortunately I don't see any answers to either of those possibilities that don't imply some serious failings on the part of the production team.

The only reasonable explanation is that Capcom USA is run in a pretty slipshod fashion, at least in regard to PR. Unless they came up with some elaborate legal ruse to absolve themselves of anything that might happen on stream, their stance seemed to be, "Let's let these people on our payroll do whatever the hell they want to," which is a good recipe for being bitten on the corporate ass. Especially in light of the fact that CA was supposed to be the lynchpin of a massive marketing campaign for SFxT, the lack of oversight is pretty baffling.

Meltdowns and clusterfucks might please the stream monsters, but I don't think they'll do anything to increase the fighting game-buying public or involve more people in the scene. To outsiders, it just makes the scene look toxic and its participants like a lot of retarded manchildren, which does a disservice to a lot of good people.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by jbug617

Well Aris really didn't bother her after that.

Not that we saw at least. That really panicked message I saw mid-afternoon that later got deleted indicates that either something was going on or that it was the accumulated stress of the last few days got to her.

And even if he wasn't bothering her, it doesn't appear as if any of the higher level people were intervening before that.
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 07:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

Not that we saw at least. That really panicked message I saw mid-afternoon that later got deleted indicates that either something was going on or that it was the accumulated stress of the last few days got to her.

And even if he wasn't bothering her, it doesn't appear as if any of the higher level people were intervening before that.

The thing is though, Aris never hid this. He was doing it in large part because of the stream.

If he stopped and then did it off steam then there is something even worse here, however given how he acted up until the very moment this transpired I see no reason to believe that the message wasn't crystal clear and he did indeed realize something was up at that point.
Margalis
Banned
(02-28-2012, 07:29 AM)

Originally Posted by Aedile

The only reasonable explanation is that Capcom USA is run in a pretty slipshod fashion, at least in regard to PR.

Capcom PR is tied up trying to find a working spell-checker.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by bluerei

I never said the thing in question was marketing gold. The contract thing between Team SF and Team TK, Ono in a Blanka suit, crazy megaman- that was what I was referring to as marketing gold.

Well, my bad then. Given that you weren't specific and given that most of the talk about tonight was about this topic, you can understand how I might have made assumptions.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
(02-28-2012, 07:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

Well, my bad then. Given that you weren't specific and given that most of the talk about tonight was about this topic, you can understand how I might have made assumptions.

I understand, but I also know a lot more into this story than most of you guys. But I'll let Capcom take care of that. I don't want to say anything I shouldn't. I hope you guys understand.
CountAntonius
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(02-28-2012, 07:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by bluerei

I understand, but I also know a lot more into this story than most of you guys. But I'll let Capcom take care of that. I don't want to say anything I shouldn't. I hope you guys understand.

I hope capcom doesn't let the negative attention sway them away from community support in the future. Drama aside the show has been very entertaining and I enjoyed the top player challenge greatly.
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 07:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by bluerei

I understand, but I also know a lot more into this story than most of you guys. But I'll let Capcom take care of that. I don't want to say anything I shouldn't. I hope you guys understand.

Interesting, this doesn't seem to really jive with what anyone who has brought this up has said.

Mainly being that it's been handled and everyone is trying to move on. If that was the case then it seems unlikely that Capcom needs to take care of anything.

Will be watching to see where this goes.
OddMorsel
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(02-28-2012, 07:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bizazedo

There's no way he doesn't bring this up. Dude wants to monetize fighting games and this is THE topic right now. Ross was even saying he had to save stuff for Cross Counter.

I don't have any problem with talking about the show or the events in it (obviously the way Miranda left deserves mention), but I really hope it doesn't come down to stupid insults, or "he totally said this! and then she totally said that!" "ooooh ice burn!" kind of shit.

Anyway, hey Biz. I'm on the FOH boards, too (whiskey). Looking forward to seeing what you come up with in SFxT
hutna
Junior Member
(02-28-2012, 07:38 AM)
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I can't believe people are using "she should have said something sooner" as a defense for any kind of bad behavior. Would these same folks use the argument of "she was wearing sexy clothes so she should expect to be raped?" Because to me it speaks of the same ignorant and sexist world view.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:40 AM)
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I need to go to bed soon, but I am hoping that the drama causes people to do a little self-reflection and serious thinking about their own behavior and where they want the scene to go. That's all I want to happen, honestly.

I feel like any possible lessons learned are going to be lost on a lot of people though.
Conceited
mechaniphiliac
(02-28-2012, 07:40 AM)
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Slightly OT, but too amazing not to post;

KidA Seven
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(02-28-2012, 07:40 AM)
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BTW this coming weekend is going to be hype.


SF4's Japanese national tournament is happening on March 3rd. Very excited about that.
CountAntonius
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(02-28-2012, 07:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conceited

Slightly OT, but too amazing not to post;

LOL.
Konosuke
Member
(02-28-2012, 07:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Conceited

http://twitter.com/digitaldevil4gk

Thanks man
shadyspace
Banned
(02-28-2012, 07:43 AM)
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I've been out of the FG scene for a minute and it's hard to find details out there on this whole blowup? Could somebody help a dude out with a rundown?
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 07:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by hutna

I can't believe people are using "she should have said something sooner" as a defense for any kind of bad behavior. Would these same folks use the argument of "she was wearing sexy clothes so she should expect to be raped?" Because to me it speaks of the same ignorant and sexist world view.

Unless you are playing stupid or just not reading you would know that not a single person justified the hard time Aris gave her.

Also flciking her shit, having her say it is cool and then trashing the one person who steps up and does say something is much much different then someone trying to look good and getting raped.

To even try to act like those situations are similar is shallow and horrible on your part.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by KidA Seven

BTW this coming weekend is going to be hype.


SF4's Japanese national tournament is happening on March 3rd. Very excited about that.

For people who like games and competitive games, this next week is going to be nutso.

Mass Effect 3, SF x Tekken, Final Round and IEM Hanover (LoL tourney). Not gonna get anything done for a week I'm sure.
ThatCrazyGuy
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(02-28-2012, 07:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conceited

Slightly OT, but too amazing not to post;

Crazy. Cray. Kray. pic.

Also, I don't get all the victim blaming. The onus/blame is on the person initiating the unwanted behavior, not the other way around. It always irks me in situations when these type of things come up in OT.
SarcasticD
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(02-28-2012, 07:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by d0c_zaius

Thats definitely possible too. Back before the SRK bleaching, shit was much worse there too. Just image wars over repping peoples posts.

It definitely discourages people in a number of ways. Hopefully this will produce something good, a clear acceptable standard for broadcasting I guess.

CROSS ASSAULT

Old SRK was definitely ruthless.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 07:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyGuy

Crazy. Cray. Kray. pic.

Also, I don't get all the victim blaming. The onus/blame is on the person initiating the unwanted behavior, not the other way around. It always irks me in situations when these type of things come up in OT.

Depends on where you mean. For some people, it's personal loyalty, for others it's a kind of allegiance to a certain segment of the community, and others may really believe it's the fault of the victims.

As for NeoGAF itself, well, thisisneogafdude.gif
hutna
Junior Member
(02-28-2012, 07:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

Unless you are playing stupid or just not reading you would know that not a single person justified the hard time Aris gave her.

Also flciking her shit, having her say it is cool and then trashing the one person who steps up and does say something is much much different then someone trying to look good and getting raped.

To even try to act like those situations are similar is shallow and horrible on your part.

I can't count the number of posts that said "she should have said something sooner;" I wonder what thread you're reading.

It's blaming the victim; if you can't get this your poor spelling isn't the only evidence of your poor language skills.
"God's Beard!"
(02-28-2012, 07:59 AM)
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I left right after Miranda forfeit, I knew I was gonna miss some craziness but damn. If there was a time the world needed MrPavySRK, it's now.
Wallach
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(02-28-2012, 08:02 AM)
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I think it is a bit odd, too, that some folks are trying to lay what happened to KOR in all of this at her feet. That's kind of a bullshit judgment to make.
mikeGFG
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(02-28-2012, 08:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by hutna

I can't believe people are using "she should have said something sooner" as a defense for any kind of bad behavior. Would these same folks use the argument of "she was wearing sexy clothes so she should expect to be raped?" Because to me it speaks of the same ignorant and sexist world view.

is this a real post
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 08:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by hutna

I can't count the number of posts that said "she should have said something sooner;" I wonder what thread you're reading.

It's blaming the victim; if you can't get this your poor spelling isn't the only evidence of your poor language skills.

She should have, even fucking Sherry said so.

I can read just fine, and while my writing is bad atleast I didn't skip over the part where Miranda acting like the shit was cool at first.
narcosis219
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(02-28-2012, 08:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by hutna

I can't count the number of posts that said "she should have said something sooner;" I wonder what thread you're reading.

It's blaming the victim; if you can't get this your poor spelling isn't the only evidence of your poor language skills.

Given the context of the situation, it kind of does seem to be partly Miranda's own fault for not stopping it in the first place.

She knows Aris. She knows he is a slob and loud mouth in general. She knows he doesn't hold back in harassing anyone (he molested Mike Ross in the same room). She isn't being singled out here. If she is uncomfortable with it, then she should have taken action against it.

That being said, there isn't really an excuse for Aris to act this way, but you have to keep in mind that the people that he was being an ass to were people who knew (his FGC friends) who he was and understood that he's all jokes. He has a reputation for being this way. It's kind of like how you can make the worst jokes around your friends because, you know, they're your friends.

Also, her twitter account has some of the weirdest stuff going back and forth about being okay and not okay with it.
broz0rs
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(02-28-2012, 08:08 AM)
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speaking of Twitch.tv

our hard working rep, Jaredr, got put on blast today by Mike Watson.



the main reason why his arcade is doing well is because of the levelup stream, which is part of twitch.tv. not only is he ignorant, but he's a straight up butt plugged homophobe.
Wallach
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(02-28-2012, 08:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by broz0rs

speaking of Twitch.tv

our hard working rep, Jaredr, got put on blast today by Mike Watson.

the main reason why his arcade is doing well is because of the levelup stream, which is part of twitch.tv. not only is he ignorant, but he's a straight up butt plugged homophobe.

Mike Watson is the OG homophobe of the FGC. Age hasn't done him any favors in that regard, unfortunately.
narcosis219
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(02-28-2012, 08:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by broz0rs

speaking of Twitch.tv

our hard working rep, Jaredr, got put on blast today by Mike Watson.



the main reason why his arcade is doing well is because of the levelup stream, which is part of twitch.tv. not only is he ignorant, but he's a straight up butt plugged homophobe.

Ugh, we didn't need this. At all.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-28-2012, 08:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by broz0rs

speaking of Twitch.tv

our hard working rep, Jaredr, got put on blast today by Mike Watson.



the main reason why his arcade is doing well is because of the levelup stream, which is part of twitch.tv. not only is he ignorant, but he's a straight up butt plugged homophobe.

I rarely agree with Jared on anything, but yea, Mike Watson is a douche.
d0c_zaius
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(02-28-2012, 08:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by broz0rs

speaking of Twitch.tv

our hard working rep, Jaredr, got put on blast today by Mike Watson.



the main reason why his arcade is doing well is because of the levelup stream, which is part of twitch.tv. not only is he ignorant, but he's a straight up butt plugged homophobe.

the 26th is not today.

no one was speaking of twitch.tv

I'm not even going to point out how o_0 the last part of your last sentence is.

OOPS too late. my bad
Last edited by d0c_zaius; 02-28-2012 at 08:20 AM.
KidA Seven
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(02-28-2012, 08:17 AM)
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Don't give him attention.
biosnake20
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(02-28-2012, 08:23 AM)
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Yeah watson is pretty much a crazy homophobe.
Last edited by biosnake20; 02-28-2012 at 08:25 AM.
Tizoc
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(02-28-2012, 08:30 AM)
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Sblargh
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(02-28-2012, 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by narcosis219

Given the context of the situation, it kind of does seem to be partly Miranda's own fault for not stopping it in the first place.

She knows Aris. She knows he is a slob and loud mouth in general. She knows he doesn't hold back in harassing anyone (he molested Mike Ross in the same room). She isn't being singled out here. If she is uncomfortable with it, then she should have taken action against it.

That being said, there isn't really an excuse for Aris to act this way, but you have to keep in mind that the people that he was being an ass to were people who knew (his FGC friends) who he was and understood that he's all jokes. He has a reputation for being this way. It's kind of like how you can make the worst jokes around your friends because, you know, they're your friends.

Also, her twitter account has some of the weirdest stuff going back and forth about being okay and not okay with it.

Stuff like this happens, it's common to get a "deer in headlight" situation. You feel bad, but everyone around is laughing, so you think maybe you should laugh too, then you keep feeling bad, but then the dude does something nice and you think it's not that bad, then some other stuff happens and you go back to feeling awful about it, etc. This isn't a clear situation where someone is outright racist, for example, it's not that simple to sort your own feelings; being on a reality show with a chance at 25k only makes everything worse.

Even just watching Aris I feel back and forth between laughing and cringing, can't imagine how it is to be his direct target. And as you said, everyone knows Aris is like that, I think it is even possible to imagine that "living one week straight with the dude will make someone snap at him" was a topic at some point while chosing him to be a coach, but maybe people pictured more of a rage outburst situation instead of this.
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 08:36 AM)
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Well hopefully Aris stays out of the spotlight for awhile.

I still remember shaking my head when right after he said he was going to be the coach of Team Tekken he started making Jew jokes to Ultradavid and then made cracks about gay men after the story about David's college (or was it high school?) friend.

I love listening to Aris as he is the most real guy to me in the scene aside from Spooky and Art. Man needs to learn the arcades are gone though and the there is a very good reason Dick/Asshole/whatever Alex is long gone.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 08:45 AM)
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I am always, always, always going to take the side of the person who is being harassed over the person who just took the joke too far.

Sure, maybe in an ideal world where everyone thinks logically all the time she would have forcefully told him to stop once it started. But shit, when people get upset about something, not everyone processes it the same way. Some people try to act tough and play along, some people try to deny they're upset or think that their being oversensitive or any other way. Bottom line, when you're upset sometimes it's hard to find the logical way out of a bad situation. This is worse, if you think that (as Miranda hinted she might have felt) the people around won't actually help you. It's not like she fucking thought she wanted it to keep happening and wasn't forceful enough on purpose.

Plus, what does Aris lose should he err on the side of caution when dealing with other people? He tells a few less jokes and has to contain himself a bit. Big fucking deal.

What happens if he goes a little (or a lot) too far?

You have a person almost in tears, clearly shaken, over what? Fucking videogames.

So yeah, I'm going to give Aris a large large majority of the blame here. All he had to do was tone it down a bit and it likely would have been fine.
Riposte
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(02-28-2012, 08:47 AM)
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Aris seems like the type of dude who's company is best enjoyed from a distance if you have a soft skin or fear awkwardness. Watching him at evo was both scary and exciting (and always hilarious).

Mike Watson is awesome, don't particularly care about his opinion of cross-dressing, cosplay, and/or both.
TruePrime
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(02-28-2012, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

I am always, always, always going to take the side of the person who is being harassed over the person who just took the joke too far.

Sure, maybe in an ideal world where everyone thinks logically all the time she would have forcefully told him to stop once it started. But shit, when people get upset about something, not everyone processes it the same way. Some people try to act tough and play along, some people try to deny they're upset or think that their being oversensitive or any other way. Bottom line, when you're upset sometimes it's hard to find the logical way out of a bad situation. This is worse, if you think that (as Miranda hinted she might have felt) the people around won't actually help you. It's not like she fucking thought she wanted it to keep happening and wasn't forceful enough on purpose.

Plus, what does Aris lose should he err on the side of caution when dealing with other people? He tells a few less jokes and has to contain himself a bit. Big fucking deal.

What happens if he goes a little (or a lot) too far?

You have a person almost in tears, clearly shaken, over what? Fucking videogames.

So yeah, I'm going to give Aris a large large majority of the blame here. All he had to do was tone it down a bit and it likely would have been fine.

Well Aris didn't lay anything on Miranda so at least on the face he isn't trying to shove the blame on anyone else but himself.
PsychoSoldier
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(02-28-2012, 08:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

Well Aris didn't lay anything on Miranda so at least on the face he isn't trying to shove the blame on anyone else but himself.

Perhaps not Aris himself, but there are plenty of examples of people trying to assign blame to her all over the place.

Given his somewhat toxic views on sexual harassment in general, it is perhaps not surprising that he went over the line very, very publicly.

Edit: Also, have they said whether or not he's going to be around for the last day. I'd find it somewhat disturbing if they let him stay given what's happened.
Wallach
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(02-28-2012, 08:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

Well Aris didn't lay anything on Miranda so at least on the face he isn't trying to shove the blame on anyone else but himself.

He isn't at face value, I totally agree. I'm not going to make any assumptions at all about whether he's being honest about it, but even then I think even given this small window of hindsight he's probably telling the truth.

That other people will do so even though he won't is its own problem.

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