[DreamMachine]

I figure there should be a Canadian Poligaf. Especially with the latest Robocall scandal.

The Latest Scandal

Robocalls

The New Democrats and Liberals allege the problem goes beyond Guelph and have listed 29 ridings where they claim voters were either misled by automated calls purportedly from Elections Canada about where to cast ballots, or where live callers misrepresented themselves as working for rival parties. In some cases, voters allegedly received harassing late-night calls.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2351508/


Here is also a great list by Lawerence Martin on the Dirty Tricks the Haper Party has done so far.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/02/27/l...cks-catalogue/


1. Cooking the Books
The duplicity began in the election that brought the Conservatives to power – the 2006 campaign in which they were promising a new era of transparency and accountability. Via some peculiar accounting practices, the Tories exceeded spending limits in the campaign, providing themselves with an advertising advantage in key ridings. They were later caught, had their offices raided by police and ultimately pled guilty last year to reduced charges of violating financing provisions of the Elections Act.


8. Communications Lockdown.
The government went to unprecedented lengths to vet, censor and withhold information. After denying legislators information on costs of programs, Harper became the first prime minister in history to be found in contempt of Parliament. The public service has muzzled like never before. Last week, several groups wrote Harper urging him to stop gagging the science community on the question of climate change and other issues. The Tories denied an opposition member accreditation to attend the Durban summit on climate change then lambasted the member for not being there. Journalists have faced myriad restrictions. At one point in the in-and-out affair, PMO officials fled down a hotel fire-escape stairwell, Keystone-Kops style, to avoid the media. On another, the governing party had the police clear a Charlottetown hotel lobby of scribes wishing to cover a Tory caucus meeting.


11. Writing the Book on Disrupting Committees
The Tories quietly issued their committee chairpersons a 200-page handbook on how to obstruct the opposition. The handbook recommended barring witnesses who might have embarrassing information. It went so far as to instruct chairpersons to shut down the committees if the going got really tough. The Tories have also issued an order that frees cabinet staffers from ever having to testify before committees. They are resorting more frequently to in-camera committee sessions, away from the public and media eye.


Those are just a few on the list goes to 22 By the way.


I also don't mind this blog he's pretty good for being up to date with the latest news.
http://montrealsimon.blogspot.com/

If anyone wants me to add articles update or remove things let me know.

[Divvy]

This whole situation has been ridiculous. What a bunch of scumbags to undermine democracy like that. Unfortunately, I don't think anything significant is going to come out of this.

[TemplaerDude]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

[BladeWorker]

That's the sad part.

If this truly amounts to a group of people in the Conservative Party conspiring to provide incorrect polling station information to members of the public in swing ridings (and hiring same firm to do additional work in places like Harper's riding) it could be prosecuted as electoral fraud.

That's the kind of thing that we've sent troops to other countries to try to prevent.

[Pandaman]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

oh come on, you don't think if this same thread was made during the sponsorship scandal that the op wouldn't have mentioned it? feel free to dump any dirt you might have on the warmer colours.

[Guesong]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

Not necessarily. Listing what potentially shady stuff the Harper Government has done so far is not taking a bias as much as listing the "facts", as far as we know them, out there.

[TemplaerDude]

oh come on, you don't think if this same thread was made during the sponsorship scandal that the op wouldn't have mentioned it? feel free to dump any dirt you might have on the warmer colours.

It would have definitely mentioned it. I, for my part, would have avoided any virulent titles. As it stands, this will probably be the last time I click on this thread, so have fun guys.

[DreamMachine]

"Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad."

Like I said in the OP if you want me to delete articles or update or even include articles I have no problem with it. These Robocalls are what is happening in politics now. I thought the Lawrence Martin article is a great read regardless if you are conservative or liberal.

I mentioned the Wraith of the Harper Government because that is what they have been doing inflicting wraith when they want something covered up or ignored. To keeping the lid on scientists to discrediting anyone that doesn't preach the Conservative talking points.

[Stet]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

I don't know, I'd be happy to hear a defense of the situation from a Conservative.

Rather than a deflection of the situation.

[BladeWorker]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

I'm all for trying to encourage a balanced discussion, but what is it that you would have us say about the matter?

[Brinbe]

This whole situation has been ridiculous. What a bunch of scumbags to undermine democracy like that. Unfortunately, I don't think anything significant is going to come out of this.

Yep... Personally, I'm not surprised at the accusations, and I'm not even bothering to get outraged because nothing's going to happen.

[BladeWorker]

It would have definitely mentioned it. I, for my part, would have avoided any virulent titles. As it stands, this will probably be the last time I click on this thread, so have fun guys.

How is AdScam a defense to what the Conservatives are purported to have done?

[squidyj]

It seems to me the Conservative strategy is to just overwhelm us with their shady tactics until the point where the whole world looks brown and we stop thinking it could or should look less brown. If you know what I mean.

[Bruiserk]

Does anybody want to catch me up to speed on Bill C-11? I haven't checked up on it in a couple weeks and feel overwhelmed with the amount of material that could have been published.

[DreamMachine]

Does anybody want to catch me up to speed on Bill C-11? I haven't checked up on it in a couple weeks and feel overwhelmed with the amount of material that could have been published.

Here is the latest Article that talks about the amendments that will likely be included. The mandatory minimums will likely stay.

I have no doubt it will pass the senate and become law very shortly.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...mendments.html

[SRG01]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...vikileaks.html

Turns out Vikileaks is a Liberal staffer. I'll report something I wrote on Facebook:

"For those following Canadian politics, the key difference behind Rae and Harper is that Rae found out the information Sunday, had a resignation on his desk Monday, *and* had the class to apologize in Parliament the same day. There has been no real effort by the Conservative party to track down those responsible for the Robocalls and fake Elections Canada representatives. Nor an apology."

How is AdScam a defense to what the Conservatives are purported to have done?

It's not. This is definitely worse. One pundit was not off the mark when he called this entire affair extremely "Nixonian".

[Beaulieu]

the new law on the refugees makes me litteraly physically sick, I want out of this country. Will move to Brazil before 2013.

[Bruiserk]

Here is the latest Article that talks about the amendments that will likely be included. The mandatory minimums will likely stay. I have no doubt it will pass the senate and become law very shortly. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...mendments.html

You gave me this when I wanted this. Thanks for the effort though :p

[DreamMachine]

I also thought that was a rather shocking article.

Don't Expect details on the budget.

So basically it won't be till 2 3 months later which social services will be cut or by how much.

The government is basically not telling citizens how it's governing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...get-delay.html

[DreamMachine]

You gave me this when I wanted this. Thanks for the effort though :p

Lol sorry my bad, got them mixed up.

[Bruiserk]

What is the general consensus on our Conservatives vs Republicans (in America)?

Would is be debatable to say that, compared to Republicans, our Conservatives are left wing?

[BladeWorker]

It's not. This is definitely worse. One pundit was not off the mark when he called this entire affair extremely "Nixonian".

I agree that it is worse but give me a little credit, I already implied that.

Let's all take a moment to recall: AdScam involved Liberals giving *tax dollars* to Liberal-friendly ad firms to (among other things) promote the "NO" vote in the 1995 referendum, and that money ended up getting further misappropriated and some of it ended up right back in Liberal coffers.

This scandal purports that parties within the Conservative campaign conspired to provide false information to electors in specific ridings prior to election day in an effort to keep them from voting.

One has been proven; the other not yet. One involved tax dollars being used for purposes for which they were not intended. Another involved private dollars being used for a purpose for which they were not intended. Both are horrid and illegal.

[Hey You]

This latest scandal is indeed ridiculous and sickening we have such people running our country.

I do not understand why voters gave him a majority after he was found in contempt of parliament.

[Boogie]

the new law on the refugees makes me litteraly physically sick, I want out of this country. Will move to Brazil before 2013.

Sooo, a law that attempts to tighten up our broken refugee system means that Canada is so horrible that you will move to a country with a homicide rate that is in the top 20 highest on the planet, a homicide rate 13 times higher than Canada's.

Yeah, that sounds rational.

[BladeWorker]

This latest scandal is indeed ridiculous and sickening we have such people running our country. I do not understand why voters gave him a majority after he was found in contempt of parliament.

Because as a collective, when people are concerned about the state of the Canadian economy (for whatever reason) they do not care that the written word of Parliamentary procedure is not being followed.

Harper effectively branded himself as Captain Economy, and as long as that brand sticks not much else will.

[PhoenixPause]

Who's your Obama and who's your W Bush. That's all I need to know

[Boogie]

Who's your Obama

Michael Ignat----sorry, I can't get it out with a straight face.

[BladeWorker]

Who's your Obama and who's your W Bush. That's all I need to know

We don't have an Obama, but Vic "you're either for our bill, or you're for child pornography" Toews might make a great hunting buddy for W.

[squidyj]

We don't have an Obama, but Vic "you're either for our bill, or you're for child pornography" Toews might make a great hunting buddy for W.

To be honest I think he should really go hunting with Cheney.

[zero_suit]

Would is be debatable to say that, compared to Republicans, our Conservatives are left wing?

I would say that's accurate.

[SRG01]

Sooo, a law that attempts to tighten up our broken refugee system means that Canada is so horrible that you will move to a country with a homicide rate that is in the top 20 highest on the planet, a homicide rate 13 times higher than Canada's. Yeah, that sounds rational.

I will agree with you on this. How on earth did the old refugee system get put in place? People from certain "safe" countries in the EU can qualify for refugee status? How on earth?

To be quite fair, I like how Jason Kenney has handled his numerous profiles as to date. I saw an interview with him on BNN a long time ago, and he was very down to earth.

[Roto13]

Canadian politics are boring. We need more crazy people.

[lunarworks]

Yep... Personally, I'm not surprised at the accusations, and I'm not even bothering to get outraged because nothing's going to happen.

I agree. Nothing's going to happen. Harper is the epitome of "I'm rubber, you're glue..."

However, I will still maintain a small amount of outrage.

[Boogie]

Canadian politics are boring. We need more crazy people.

"You rang?"

[BladeWorker]

"You rang?"

Oh, come on. At least use this one.

It's boring for five and a half minutes, exciting for thirty seconds. That's Canadian.

Oh, that last thirty seconds is a little less than SFW, btw.

[BigJonsson]

I'm a Liberal and I agree that the OP is a bit too partisan for this to be a Canada PoliGaf thread, I'd have put the scandals in the 2nd post


Someone needs to go to jail for the robo/live-calls, there is no place for those kinds of tactics in Canada, thats something we expect from states we consider to be corrupt and backwards

[Hey You]

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks with the BC teachers and government.

[ChefRamsay]

Calling this a "poligaf" thread and then immediately taking a partisan spit kind of dashes any hopes of this being anything other than a thread where NDP and Liberals can come in and wank off to thoughts of being in power again. I know GAF is generally left leaning in its politics, but this is just blatant and kind of sad.

This.

And you somehow had people rejecting your claims as well, lol. Every person who tried to contradict you is obviously anti-Harper, hence the title of this thread, hence why no meaningful discussion will arise within it.

[Canuck76]

Conservative/Albertan-gaf checking in

[SRG01]

I'm a Conservative NDP voter if that makes any sense. I'm either the most right-wing socialist, or the most left-wing capitalist you'll ever meet.

[Zzoram]

I'm what you might call a swing vote.

I voted for Harper initially because he promised to get rid of the massively over budget long gun registry and enforce Canada's claim on the arctic but now I'm no longer a supporter. I think his new minimum prison sentences and plans to build more big prisons to accommodate all the new prisoners he wants to create is a terrible social policy. The US went crazy with putting everyone in jail for minor drug offenses and it's gotten them nowhere other than the poor house. It's foolish to copy a failed model.

Also, I'm really against his policies to suppress government information. A functioning democracy needs a transparent government.

The Liberals badly need a leader that doesn't stammer like a fool on TV.

[SRG01]

The Liberals badly need a leader that doesn't stammer like a fool on TV.

That would currently be Bob Rae.

[gabbo]

Here is the latest Article that talks about the amendments that will likely be included. The mandatory minimums will likely stay. I have no doubt it will pass the senate and become law very shortly. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...mendments.html

Is there not a way the provinces could skirt around implementing the changes, since almost all of it falls on them in the end?

[squidyj]

Man, 140ish million dollars a year? for each province? before adding in the cost of new prisons? All for what benefit?

Great bill Harper, great bill.

NDP in Alberta
just shoot me.


If you wanted a less partisan title i'd do something like ....of Orange Crush and Sweater Vests. But that's just me

[Acheron]

Made a $1,000 bet that Conservatives will win a majority in 2015. Anyone think I made a mistake?

Call scam or not, the NDP and the Grits are going to have shit leadership and the CPC is the only party with national reach in addition practically all of the new seats help us.

Also if the left thinks they'll win in this country by attacking defence procurement and coddling criminals again, I can only wish they continue.

[SRG01]

Made a $1,000 bet that Conservatives will win a majority in 2015. Anyone think I made a mistake? Call scam or not, the NDP and the Grits are going to have shit leadership and the CPC is the only party with national reach in addition practically all of the new seats help us. Also if the left thinks they'll win in this country by attacking defence procurement and coddling criminals again, I can only wish they continue.

They will absolutely return with a minority government. Ontario was the swing province and they're a particularly fickle group.

Quebec is another story, to be determined.

[BigJonsson]

The next election is too far away to make predictions =/

[gabbo]

Made a $1,000 bet that Conservatives will win a majority in 2015. Anyone think I made a mistake? Call scam or not, the NDP and the Grits are going to have shit leadership and the CPC is the only party with national reach in addition practically all of the new seats help us. Also if the left thinks they'll win in this country by attacking defence procurement and coddling criminals again, I can only wish they continue.

If the election was next week, they'd be gone everywhere east of Saskatchewan, all of their dirty business has been airing publicly the last month. But over the next three years? It'll depend on how many more holes they step in and are able to make people forget about by then. That omnibus crime bill won't do them a lot of favours in the long run me thinks, and Peter Mackay and the military aren't going to win them an entire election on their own.

I'd say you took a bad bet, personally.

[Hieberrr]

Man, I really don't know squat about politics. Someone please tell me where I can learn this stuff (including current political events and whatnot).

[Flying_Phoenix]

This thread will never be as interesting as the American one and you know it!

American politics is like the worlds biggest circus while Canada is like a clown in the public park performing for a kids birthday party. You just don't get people like Pre-Culture War Santorum, Mentally Challenged Bush, Valley Girl Palin, Crybaby Boener, Moon Gingrich, or Crazy Paul.

There's just no comparison.