[Wendel Clark]

i would prefer not to date a dude

[Orayn]

i would prefer not to date a dude

Fantastic. That's not the topic of this thread.

[Emitan]

i would prefer not to date a dude

Then date trans women, not trans men.

[docbon]

Not sure about the spanish, but a similar problem happened on this in the UK with a program called There is Something About Miriam The network received legal action from the people to stop the show from even airing ... and there was NO SEX involved. If you are curious :

these feelings i have now. they cannot be expressed through text.

[onemic]

It is ok ...how about "non-measles" person ? A "people who never broken their arm" person ?

If you want to make more non nonsensical examples, have at it.

Serious Question: I had relations with a man who considered himself trans, but he had a normal male body and was not going to ever get reassignment surgery. Also he preferred to consider himself genderless and to be called with neutral gender pronouns like ze, they, them, etc. Is this a transgendered/transsexual person in anyway? Or just a confused person?

Well you wouldn't need to look like a woman to identify as one.

[Sadsic]

Serious Question: I had relations with a man who considered himself trans, but he had a normal male body and was not going to ever get reassignment surgery. Also he preferred to consider himself genderless and to be called with neutral gender pronouns like ze, they, them, etc.

Is this a transgendered/transsexual person in anyway? Or just a confused person?

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think if you're going to enter into a serious relationship with someone, they deserve the truth. If they react poorly, it's probably not someone that you wanted to be with in the first place. That being said, there are much bigger things to worry about when having one night stands than the possibility that your partner had sexual reassignment surgery.

[shidoshi]

I've seen porn with a post-OP transgender woman and the vagina thing looked horrible. I still get nightmares about it, it was my Vietnam.

Go to the right person, and you'll end up with something that even some doctors wouldn't know you weren't born with. This is kind of a big misconception out there—that anybody who gets a custom-built vagina ends up with some freakish-looking thing—but the truth is (a) it's all about shopping around, and (b) technology has advanced past what people still believe it is.


As to the question, this is a hugely difficult thing—and one where I think, no matter which side you fall on, it's still important to consider both sides.

So, taking the example of a transgirl (male->female) and her potential male suitor.

For him
It isn't fair to him not to know the situation if sex or heavy physical contact is going to be involved. The reality of the difference between male and female bodies is that there's less difference than we believe there is in our heads, but that doesn't put aside the fact that people have preferences that should be respected.

Even if you're the hottest transgirl ever to exist, your body was still at one point male, and that could be a huge deal to the man that you're with. Hopefully he would be able to separate what you were with what you are now, and not let that past cloud his opinions of or attraction to you. Still, if things are going to be serious, he should know.

For her
At some point, having to drudge up your past yet again and go into the whole story of who you were is something you just want to get past—and you can't blame somebody who is trans for that. It's life if your entire life you had to tell everybody about some stupid mistake you made in your past, and you were never allowed to live that down. The entire reason somebody who is transgender goes through the process of transitioning isn't so that they can become "trans"—it's so that they can become "male" or "female".

For our example transgirl, at first she's forced to identify as trans because that's the best way to explain her situation. Years later, when her body matched how she feels inside, all she wants is to be seen as normal—as much as that's possible. Having to tell every potential date that you'll be with about your past is forcing yourself to go back to who you were, not concentrate on who you are now, like a constant reminder that you're in some club that you don't really belong in.


So, like I said, no matter which side you're on—even if you're on the "of god-damn course!" or "never, ever tell" sides—it's only fair to take both people's feelings into consideration. It's obviously important to be fair to the man and his feelings, but that can't come at the total expense of her feelings in the process. On a date, meting for the first time, casual encounters, etc., I don't think somebody who is trans has any obligation to discuss the topic.

As Charron (I think it was) said, if you aren't getting in my pants, you don't need to know what's in them. Other people aren't required to give out highly personal details "just because", so people who are trans shouldn't be expected to either. At the same time, if things are going to progress to anything serious—even if it's just relationship-wise, and not directly sex—then while it sucks to have to dredge up old wounds, I think it's only fair, not only for the man's sake, but also for the sake of the person who is trans.

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

I would assume that after a date or two when stuff starts to get a bit more serious, then you'd have to let the other person know.

Personally, if you're a hot girl, you're a hot girl. I'll take Bailey Jay over an unattractive genetic girl any day.

[SapientWolf]

I'm REALLY curious to what would be a strong hint. "Hey .. lets talk about football!!" ? hehe xD

Bringing up subjects like what defines a gender, differences between sex and gender, appearance altering surgery or hormone therapy, desire for children, etc. Then just asking indirect questions about their opinions. That kind of prodding isn't unheard of for a first date.

That is victim blaming. If a men don't see transgender women as woman, the problem is THEIRS for going against every antropologic, psyquiatric, neurological and scientific reason to believe otherwise

Dating shouldn't have victims. But sometimes people have incompatible views that preclude them from seeing each other. It's typically better for them to go their separate ways than try to change each other. It wouldn't be fair to either person in the relationship to treat being transgendered as if it was a shameful secret.

[fireside]

Serious Question: I had relations with a man who considered himself trans, but he had a normal male body and was not going to ever get reassignment surgery. Also he preferred to consider himself genderless and to be called with neutral gender pronouns like ze, they, them, etc. Is this a transgendered/transsexual person in anyway? Or just a confused person?

“Transgendered” is sort of an umbrella term for any kind of “non-normal” gender identity, so this person would fall under that category, but not the transsexual category, which describes people who identify as the gender opposite of their birth sex. This person sounds like an “androgyne”, but, honestly, all the terms can get pretty confusing.

[Tajin]

Straight guys who turn down a hot transgirl don't know what they're missing.

[onemic]

Go to the right person, and you'll end up with something that even some doctors wouldn't know you weren't born with. This is kind of a big misconception out there—that anybody who gets a custom-built vagina ends up with some freakish-looking thing—but the truth is (a) it's all about shopping around, and (b) technology has advanced past what people still believe it is. As to the question, this is a hugely difficult thing—and one where I think, no matter which side you fall on, it's still important to consider both sides. So, taking the example of a transgirl (male->female) and her potential male suitor. For him It isn't fair to him not to know the situation if sex or heavy physical contact is going to be involved. The reality of the difference between male and female bodies is that there's less difference than we believe there is in our heads, but that doesn't put aside the fact that people have preferences that should be respected. Even if you're the hottest transgirl ever to exist, your body was still at one point male, and that could be a huge deal to the man that you're with. Hopefully he would be able to separate what you were with what you are now, and not let that past cloud his opinions of or attraction to you. Still, if things are going to be serious, he should know. For her At some point, having to drudge up your past yet again and go into the whole story of who you were is something you just want to get past—and you can't blame somebody who is trans for that. It's life if your entire life you had to tell everybody about some stupid mistake you made in your past, and you were never allowed to live that down. The entire reason somebody who is transgender goes through the process of transitioning isn't so that they can become "trans"—it's so that they can become "male" or "female". For our example transgirl, at first she's forced to identify as trans because that's the best way to explain her situation. Years later, when her body matched how she feels inside, all she wants is to be seen as normal—as much as that's possible. Having to tell every potential date that you'll be with about your past is forcing yourself to go back to who you were, not concentrate on who you are now, like a constant reminder that you're in some club that you don't really belong in. So, like I said, no matter which side you're on—even if you're on the "of god-damn course!" or "never, ever tell" sides—it's only fair to take both people's feelings into consideration. It's obviously important to be fair to the man and his feelings, but that can't come at the total expense of her feelings in the process. On a date, meting for the first time, casual encounters, etc., I don't think somebody who is trans has any obligation to discuss the topic. As Charron (I think it was) said, if you aren't getting in my pants, you don't need to know what's in them. Other people aren't required to give out highly personal details "just because", so people who are trans shouldn't be expected to either. At the same time, if things are going to progress to anything serious—even if it's just relationship-wise, and not directly sex—then while it sucks to have to dredge up old wounds, I think it's only fair, not only for the man's sake, but also for the sake of the person who is trans.

Post of the thread

[shidoshi]

I'm getting an "Asian Match Online" ad for this thread.

YOU THINK YOU'RE FUNNY, GOOGLE ADS?! *evil state*

[Garbaga]

Go to the right person, and you'll end up with something that even some doctors wouldn't know you weren't born with. This is kind of a big misconception out there—that anybody who gets a custom-built vagina ends up with some freakish-looking thing—but the truth is (a) it's all about shopping around, and (b) technology has advanced past what people still believe it is. As to the question, this is a hugely difficult thing—and one where I think, no matter which side you fall on, it's still important to consider both sides. So, taking the example of a transgirl (male->female) and her potential male suitor. For him It isn't fair to him not to know the situation if sex or heavy physical contact is going to be involved. The reality of the difference between male and female bodies is that there's less difference than we believe there is in our heads, but that doesn't put aside the fact that people have preferences that should be respected. Even if you're the hottest transgirl ever to exist, your body was still at one point male, and that could be a huge deal to the man that you're with. Hopefully he would be able to separate what you were with what you are now, and not let that past cloud his opinions of or attraction to you. Still, if things are going to be serious, he should know. For her At some point, having to drudge up your past yet again and go into the whole story of who you were is something you just want to get past—and you can't blame somebody who is trans for that. It's life if your entire life you had to tell everybody about some stupid mistake you made in your past, and you were never allowed to live that down. The entire reason somebody who is transgender goes through the process of transitioning isn't so that they can become "trans"—it's so that they can become "male" or "female". For our example transgirl, at first she's forced to identify as trans because that's the best way to explain her situation. Years later, when her body matched how she feels inside, all she wants is to be seen as normal—as much as that's possible. Having to tell every potential date that you'll be with about your past is forcing yourself to go back to who you were, not concentrate on who you are now, like a constant reminder that you're in some club that you don't really belong in. So, like I said, no matter which side you're on—even if you're on the "of god-damn course!" or "never, ever tell" sides—it's only fair to take both people's feelings into consideration. It's obviously important to be fair to the man and his feelings, but that can't come at the total expense of her feelings in the process. On a date, meting for the first time, casual encounters, etc., I don't think somebody who is trans has any obligation to discuss the topic. As Charron (I think it was) said, if you aren't getting in my pants, you don't need to know what's in them. Other people aren't required to give out highly personal details "just because", so people who are trans shouldn't be expected to either. At the same time, if things are going to progress to anything serious—even if it's just relationship-wise, and not directly sex—then while it sucks to have to dredge up old wounds, I think it's only fair, not only for the man's sake, but also for the sake of the person who is trans.

Fantastic and wonderful post.

[Sadsic]

“Transgendered” is sort of an umbrella term for any kind of “non-normal” gender identity, so this person would fall under that category, but not the transsexual category, which describes people who identify as the gender opposite of their birth sex. This person sounds like an “androgyne”, but, honestly, all the terms can get pretty confusing.

Yeah this stuff was confusing me... he was hot though! lol

[Emitan]

On a date, meting for the first time, casual encounters, etc., I don't think somebody who is trans has any obligation to discuss the topic.

I hope they people saying yes aren't actually meaning this. That's pretty ridiculous.

I KNOW WE JUST MET BUT PLEASE TELL ME PERSONAL INFO THAT YOU REALLY WISH YOU NEVER HAD TO EXPLAIN TO ANYONE, KAY THANKS.

[videogames]

stuff

For consideration: sex and gender are not the same thing.

[The Albatross]

I watched this play out in an episode of Jerry Springer. It was pretty thrilling.

[akira28]

If you're just friends, or whatever, it's you business. But if it's a dating situation, it needs to come up. You're messing with someone else's feelings in order to protect your own, that's not exactly cool.

[pakkit]

Transgendered people make those who aren't trans uncomfortable because their existence shows the frailty of gender itself. Gender and engendered interactions are based off the assumption that everyone is male or female. In actuality, upwards to 15% of all humans have some mixed genitalia or elements of the other sexual anatomy, and it often isn't discovered at all.

To answer the question posed by the OP, if a couple are leading towards a sexual encounter then I think it undoubtedly needs to be addressed. Some people will never be comfortable sexually around anything other than the opposite sex. That said, sexuality and gender don't ever really have to be discussed outside of your personal circle, we as a society elevate its importance only because it is out of the established norm.

[Emitan]

If you're just friends, or whatever, it's you business. But if it's a dating situation, it needs to come up. You're messing with someone else's feelings in order to protect your own, that's not exactly cool.

It's not "messing with someone's feelings to protect your own". That's an incredibly selfish way of looking at it.

A trans person has gone through years of theory (and perhaps surgery) so they can finally have a body that they are comfortable with. Do you think they enjoy having to bring up the fact that they were born in a body they were uncomfortable with?

They should definitely tell if the relationship is serious, but it's not something to be taken lightly.

[Mammoth Jones]

Yes you can. Extreme example ... but imagine if this thread was about internet dating : "But then we can't really blame a non-black person if they would prefer to know. Everyone has a preference."

It's not extreme at all....I don't know where you're from but everyone has a preference and having a preference doesn't mean someone is "against" something for others if that's their preference. It also doesn't mean they're against whatever they don't have a preference for. It's ok for something to be "not my kinda thing". That's just life....

My best friend is White. He said it plainly: "Nah, man...I'm not into Black girls." It's never been an issue. He's still my best friend and I love him dearly. I'm not up in arms that he's not attracted to the sistas, lol...more for me! But seriously...my other good friend I've known since elementary school is only into Black women. He's not into other ethnicities I have another friend that is gay. Am I suppose to be offended she's not into guys? LMAO. My boss is only into Korean woman. The simple fact is people have a personal preference they are ALLOWED to have. If that's ok for you why can't it be for others? I honestly don't understand.

People in life have different pursuits of happiness. You should realize this. I don't believe I'm saying anything too controversial or out of bounds. That doesn't make me some hateful bigot no more than my friends are for their personal preferences.

[Derwind]

It's not an obligation on dates but then again....

I'll say this, it'd be wise to at least be forthcoming about this information if one wants to get serious.....

/shrug

[horsebird]

They should definitely feel obligated, if only out of courtesy and for their personal safety.

[shidoshi]

For consideration: sex and gender are not the same thing.

And—no offense—I'm one of the last people on here who need to be told that.

[Garbaga]

I think one of my main hold-backs in regards to dating/boning trans-women is the surgery.

It seems we can barely get boob-jobs or lip injections right, they end up looking like crap more often than not to me; very inconsistent.

If we can barely get those right, I can't even begin to imagine sexual reassignment surgery; I'm sure my worries won't apply centuries from now.

In the present, however, I think they definitely apply.

[akira28]

It's not "messing with someone's feelings to protect your own". That's an incredibly selfish way of looking at it. A trans person has gone through years of theory (and perhaps surgery) so they can finally have a body that they are comfortable with. Do you think they enjoy having to bring up the fact that they were born in a body they were uncomfortable with? They should definitely tell if the relationship is serious, but it's not something to be taken lightly.

It's not incredibly selfish. It's completely neutral. I understand that it would be uncomfortable to have to keep bringing up history if it was something they were looking to escape or seal away behind them forever to never deal with again. But realistically they will never be able to do that, so I think it's better to have come to terms with it. "I'm a transgendered woman." Not letting it be a secret that would have to be shared eventually, with possibility of greater drama, hurt feelings, or anger at being misled or 'led along'. For someone who wouldn't have an issue with dating TG, it would then become a total non-issue for acceptance and whatever else might come from a possible relationship.

At most, a 2nd date revelation. But I believe it should be stated on the outset. Get it over with so you can both move on. And I think the TG person should be selfless in that small bit, to care about that other person's feelings more in that one way, so misunderstandings and things like that can be totally avoided. I think paying that forward would eventually pay them back in a bigger way, instead of getting into something that could eventually progress and then having to potentially put it in jeopardy with a revelation, or keeping it hidden entirely. Which could be considered selfish as well.

[Platy]

It's not extreme at all....I don't know where you're from but everyone has a preference and having a preference doesn't mean someone is "against" something for others if that's their preference. It also doesn't mean they're against whatever they don't have a preference for. It's ok for something to be "not my kinda thing". That's just life.... My best friend is White. He said it plainly: "Nah, man...I'm not into Black girls." It's never been an issue. He's still my best friend and I love him dearly. I'm not up in arms that he's not attracted to the sistas, lol...more for me! But seriously...my other good friend I've known since elementary school is only into Black women. He's not into other ethnicities I have another friend that is gay. Am I suppose to be offended she's not into guys? LMAO. My boss is only into Korean woman. The simple fact is people have a personal preference they are ALLOWED to have. If that's ok for you why can't it be for others? I honestly don't understand. People in life have different pursuits of happiness. You should realize this. I don't believe I'm saying anything too controversial or out of bounds. That doesn't make me some hateful bigot no more than my friends are for their personal preferences.

Yeah ... i was a very poorly writen example .... mixing tiredness with a memory of a youtube video of people being asked by an interviewer "do you have any problems with black people ?" and after some time asking "what if your son dated a black girl ?" having some very ...curious and familiar answers.

A best version of what i meant is :

"non-measles" person ? A "people who never broken their arm" person ?

because it goes down to basicaly "what is diferent on a trans girl from a cis girl?"
i mean ... as yeas go by, more and more trans are being medicated as soon as possible, ignoring EVERY possible influence from their "base hormones" on their bodies.
The first ones have almost 20 years now !

...besides the fact of the thread being about a trans girl that for your and everyone's eyes is ... well .... for lack of better word ... a girl, or otherwise you or a friend would have guessed/discovered.

For this, I think that "I have to tell you something ... i'm infertile because of a genetic problem" is more than ever need to be said, since you are only ignoring medical details about what happened when the person was younger than 10 years old... and if you discussed the hormone levels of your girlfriend when she was pre-puberty, than you are a very strange person

....good night o/

[shidoshi]

It seems we can barely get boob-jobs or lip injections right, they end up looking like crap more often than not to me; very inconsistent. If we can barely get those right, I can't even begin to imagine sexual reassignment surgery; I'm sure my worries won't apply centuries from now.

Not that I have direct experience—either owning one or utilizing one (I know, I make it sound so romantic)—but I've talked to people on both ends, and really, as I said before, I think a lot of folks would be surprised with the level of results at this point. Transgirls can have full sexual pleasure from their new lady parts, and can have full-body orgasms just like your average girl can. Meanwhile, the man could encounter a vagina that looks, feels, and gets wet just like your average, run of the mill vajayjay.

You'd also be impressed with how other parts of the body can turn out as well. I have one friend who ended up with ridiculously mesmerizing C-cups from nothing but hormones.

Again, though, all of this depends on how much effort you put into getting good results.

[wenis]

I personally would love a surprise.

[Zekes!]

If a girl told me when she first met me she was transgendered, I'd honestly would be taken aback at first, but it wouldn't necessarily put me off, I'd give her a shot like any other girl.

If I was with/dating a girl and one day she told me she was transgendered, I'd also be taken aback, but I'd be totally fine with it, considering I obviously like her enough to have started a relationship with her. The fact she used to be a guy wouldn't change anything in my eyes.

[shidoshi]

I personally would love a surprise.

Since I know it'll be done anyhow...


wenis
Member
(Today, 09:31 PM)

[Emitan]

Transgirls can have full sexual pleasure from their new lady parts, and can have full-body orgasms just like your average girl can. Meanwhile, the man could encounter a vagina that looks, feels, and gets wet just like your average, run of the mill vajayjay. You'd also be impressed with how other parts of the body can turn out as well. I have one friend who ended up with ridiculously mesmerizing C-cups from nothing but hormones.

Holy shit the future is amazing.

I have a weird obsession with calling the present the future when amazed by technology

[lexi]

The majority of people here advocating for disclosure within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone, is not realistic. If I had followed this sage advice I'd have dated approximately 0 guys.

[Garbaga]

Not that I have direct experience—either owning one or utilizing one (I know, I make it sound so romantic)—but I've talked to people on both ends, and really, as I said before, I think a lot of folks would be surprised with the level of results at this point. Transgirls can have full sexual pleasure from their new lady parts, and can have full-body orgasms just like your average girl can. Meanwhile, the man could encounter a vagina that looks, feels, and gets wet just like your average, run of the mill vajayjay. You'd also be impressed with how other parts of the body can turn out as well. I have one friend who ended up with ridiculously mesmerizing C-cups from nothing but hormones. Again, though, all of this depends on how much effort you put into getting good results.

That all sounds great -- but their are excellent boob-jobs as well; does't make them all great, seems most are mediocre and some just outright bad.

I don't think it'd be a stretch to imagine it's the same way for SRA as well, I don't have too much faith; I'll always be a "natural is better" man until ALL surgeries hit that excellent level.

[Opiate]

I think the most interesting question, to me, is how I would react under these circumstances.

I am very strongly heterosexual (as in, I am very close to pure heterosex on the Kinsey scale, and I've considered this question seriously), so my instinctive response is that I would lose significant interest in intimacy with a woman if I found out she had a penis and was born a male.

However, I've never been in that situation, so I don't really know that for sure. If I had been dating someone for two months, fell in love, and only then discovered she was born a male? I don't know. I still think the answer is that I'd be very upset and unwilling to continue the romance, but I don't know for sure.

The majority of people here advocating for disclosure within the first 5 minutes of meeting someone, is not realistic. If I had followed this sage advice I'd have dated approximately 0 guys.

This seems like a reasonable point to me. I think a grey scale is needed desperately here; while "first 5 minutes" is obviously unreasonable, it wouldn't be fair to tell them a year in to a relationship, either (if any healthy adult relationship ever goes that long without sexual contact). I think I would become upset if the information was not disclosed within a month, but a week or two is acceptable. I'd draw the line around there, but again it isn't something I've considered seriously and I'm willing to listen to reasonable arguments.

[lexi]

That all sounds great -- but their are excellent boob-jobs as well; does't make them all great, seems most are mediocre and some just outright bad. I don't think it'd be a stretch to imagine it's the same way for SRA as well, I don't have too much faith; I'll always be a "natural is better" man until ALL surgeries hit that excellent level.

I guess we'll know when trans people have full equality, it will be once they're good enough to meet your standards. You must be dry-reaching right now, just having to interact with me. I hope you get well soon.

[Emitan]

I think the most interesting question, to me, is how I would react under these circumstances. I am very strongly heterosexual (as in, I am very close to pure heterosex on the Kinsey scale, and I've considered this question seriously), so my instinctive response is that I would lose significant interest in intimacy with a woman if I found out she had a penis and was born a male. However, I've never been in that situation, so I don't really know that for sure. If I had been dating someone for two months, fell in love, and only then discovered she was born a male? I don't know. I still think the answer is that I'd be very upset and unwilling to continue the romance, but I don't know for sure.

How would you feel if she had reassignment surgery? Or is that what the second 3rd paragraph addressed?

[Garbaga]

I guess we'll know when trans people have full equality, it will be once they're good enough to fulfill your standards. You must be dry-reaching right now, just having to interact with me. I hope you get well soon.

I wish nothing more than full equality for trans-peoples, better surgery will certainly aid this.

[EYEL1NER]

Like she'd rather bail than get busted about being trans. We live in the Philippines, though. Guys here are really conscious about being seen as gay or someshit, lol. It's hard as fuck to get a date here if you're trans, unfortunately. A lot of close-minded people.

Really? You live there, so you know more about the place than I do, but in my short time there I met more trans people than I have here in the states. My brother-in-law introduced me to friends of his who are trans and I met a lady who is trans who might be part of my in-laws family? That or it was just another friend. I met more open gays than I have ever met before in my life as well. I didn't get any vibes that it was something they hid or anything.

I'm not sure what my brother-in-law is really, terminology-wise. He is gay and bangs dudes, dresses in women's clothing (capris and a halter top, not a sundress or anything, and just had surgery on his eyes, nose, mouth, and jaw to make them look more feminine. But as far as I know, he does not plan to get any SRS or anything done on his genitalia. He goes by female names, but I am pretty sure he doesn't identify as female. Every night he would go out and my in-laws would tell me "There goes tita bading on the hunt for boys. He's a vampire." It all confused me quite a bit because it was my first time being exposed to that sort of thing and I was there to be with my wife, but the whole time he was making sexual jokes about me and hitting on me. And everyone just laughed it off.

But I didn't travel all 7107 islands or anything. So I definitely can imagine that there are areas where it is accepted and areas where it isn't.

____________________________

On-topic, I am with some of the people ITT. There shouldn't be a legal obligation to disclose it, but if someone wants to get serious with someone or have a good relationship, they should tell. As for when? Well, I don't know. I don't think anyone does. It is something the man or women in the situation would have to judge for themselves. I do think in a relationship that it should be before sex happens.
If someone is just out looking for fun and wanting to fuck, well...I think I would want to know. But I don't think it is my right to know or anything.

It's tough. It's really tricky and I feel for the people who have to make these decisions.

[DR3AM]

If you have time, watch this episode of True Life ( skip the black girl)

[fireside]

I wish nothing more than full equality for trans-peoples, better surgery will certainly aid this.

How?

[Emitan]

How?

I guess trans people will become accepted if we can't tell they're trans...

Which is basically like saying the US military was accepting of homosexuals because of Don't Ask Don't Tell.

[J,ceaz]

Look, legally no one should have to disclose any info they don't want to before they're in a committed relationship period. But I as an atheist define a committed relationship as a sexual relationship. So, if you are prepared to take that step then you should absolutely let your partner know about your original sexual orientation beforehand. That being said, on a purely social standing nobody wants to be dumped because of something they've left behind long ago (their sex) so it would be in transgendered people who want a relationship with those of their original sex's favor to tell their partner the truth before they potentially get their heart broken.

[Garbaga]

How?

Their is this ense amongst people who don't want to date tran-peoples that it isn't as good as natural, if your average SRA was high-quality and rendered most patients indistinguishable from cis-peoples I'd think it would go a long way towards improving public perception of the transgendered, of course their are many other factors and this isn't the sole factor that would change everything.

[JokerOfSpades]

All I will say is that I showed friends the Spanish chick on the last page. They said she was hot. I noted she was transsexual. Reverse course.

Not gonna give my personal opinion in full. All I can say is I'm with Opiate. Though I may lean a little further away on the scale. All I can say to the transsexuals here is sorry for your situation.

[Inflammable Slinky]

I think the most interesting question, to me, is how I would react under these circumstances. I am very strongly heterosexual (as in, I am very close to pure heterosex on the Kinsey scale, and I've considered this question seriously), so my instinctive response is that I would lose significant interest in intimacy with a woman if I found out she had a penis and was born a male. However, I've never been in that situation, so I don't really know that for sure. If I had been dating someone for two months, fell in love, and only then discovered she was born a male? I don't know. I still think the answer is that I'd be very upset and unwilling to continue the romance, but I don't know for sure.

Seriously? If you had sex with a beautiful woman and then down the line it came out her Assigned Gender at Birth was different from her current gender you would suddenly lose attraction to her?

Also the bolded is dangerously close to biological essentialism. Why is her genitalia decades ago so freaking important?

Serious Question: I had relations with a man who considered himself trans, but he had a normal male body and was not going to ever get reassignment surgery. Also he preferred to consider himself genderless and to be called with neutral gender pronouns like ze, they, them, etc. Is this a transgendered/transsexual person in anyway? Or just a confused person?

The term you're looking for is probably Genderqueer.

[Emitan]

I don't think a single person in this thread has argued for it to be illegal to withhold gender (how would that even be regulated) so I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

Their is this ense amongst people who don't want to date tran-peoples that it isn't as good as natural, if your average SRA was high-quality and rendered most patients indistinguishable from cis-peoples I'd think it would go a long way towards improving public perception of the transgendered, of course their are many other factors and this isn't the sole factor that would change everything.

I don't think the quality of one's genitalia should determine how accepted they are in society.

[Garbaga]

Seriously? If you had sex with a beautiful woman and then down the line it came out her Assigned Gender at Birth was different from her current gender you would suddenly lose attraction to her? Also the bolded is dangerously close to biological essentialism. Why is her genitalia decades ago so freaking important?

As I said earlier, our sexual prefences aren't founded upon logic; yes, someone previously considered attractive could be rendered completely unattractive based on one simple turn-off.