[Boken]

Do you want to counter point? Is there anything in the articles that does not suggest otherwise?

[Laughing Banana]

I straight up lost it when he was finally in frame. Couldn't have been more predictable.

Do assholes of the video gaming community have certain physical features that typically characterize them or something? Hahaha.

[QisTopTier]

Do you want to counter point? Is there anything in the articles that does not suggest otherwise?

The simplest thing to say is, do you believe everything people report online and on tv at face value?

This situation is bad no doubt, but it's really really being spun out of control at this point.

[Conceited]

He's not worth it.

Yeah, most people posting in this thread will probably forget this whole thing even happened within the next few days, and we'll never see them post in a FGC related thread again, so it's definitely not worth it.

[Sixfortyfive]

Do you want to counter point? Is there anything in the articles that does not suggest otherwise?

I don't appreciate being called a bigot. And the idea that I should take responsibility or share blame for someone else's shitty words and actions is asinine. This is why some people in here go overboard and get hyper-defensive about things they shouldn't be defending (not that that excuses them).

I'm just going to relink my piece that I said yesterday.

[Wallach]

Do you want to counter point? Is there anything in the articles that does not suggest otherwise?

It's pretty illogical if not outright childish to try and paint an entire community with one brush because of something that involves individual people. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what you're speaking to; nuance is not optional when dealing with a social issue of any kind.

[19 & 21]

Do assholes of the video gaming community have certain physical features that typically characterize them or something? Hahaha.

A very specific type of asshole in this case. His looks have nothing to do with his character, but being both a creepy fuck and looking the role is worth mentioning.

[Ogrekiller]

Do you want to counter point? Is there anything in the articles that does not suggest otherwise?

Sure.

Judging from these articles, LOL players are immature jerks. Care to prove otherwise?

[Lyphen]

Yeah, most people posting in this thread will probably forget this whole thing even happened within the next few days, and we'll never see them post in a FGC related thread again, so it's definitely not worth it.

This is the kind of 'come back to our cave, ignore the outside world because it's just too restrictive on our spur of the moment trash talking, it doesn't understand our intricacies' that got someone banned.

FGC distancing itself from everything is a recurring theme, and it's a pretty sad sight. You're in GAF, not shoryuken. Prepare for outside opinion of the community.

[Sixfortyfive]

Sure. Judging from these articles, LOL players are immature jerks. Care to prove otherwise?

Why stop there? Let's get Jack Thompson's expert opinion on what he thinks about video gamers and their hobby.

[Margalis]

Thanks. This is a pretty good watch. I don't think that looks entirely bad for Aris other than the fact that he keeps lamenting the "old days" and arguing for people having thicker skin, while Valle is mostly smiling and just trying to nod along, but he realizes that adapting to a more welcoming environment is just the -right- thing to do.

That's not even really historically correct.

Now that there are big events, streams, audiences, "hype", etc, the behavior has generally gotten worse, not better. In the early days of the Street Fighter scene at least nobody was cracking nonstop racist jokes or shit like that. (I don't know what the Tekken scene was like historically)

Arcade culture was nothing like Aris is trying to pretend it is. Yes, it was competitive but that's not the same as hostile or disrespectful.

If you go dig up some old tapes of an early event like B3 it's not like you see Alex Valle getting up in John Choi's face calling him Asian slurs or some shit. The "old days" as Aris imagines them are mostly fabricated. Most OG Street Fighter players come off pretty decently and always have, and heated discussions were normally around the games and not race and sex and other garbage.

Most of these shit-stirrers are guys who have grown up in the age of streams and events that have thousands of people rather than dozens. Back in the "old days" you didn't even have commentators or a mic'd audience so guys desperate for attention had to look elsewhere.

When Aris talks about the good old days he's really only talking about *his* good old days.

It probably worth pointing out that the Cannon brothers, who are probably the most important figures in the SF scene historically, are basically the exact opposite of guys like Aris. Like those guys are kind of disgustingly nice and level-headed.

[Conceited]

This is the kind of 'come back to our cave, ignore the outside world because it's just too restrictive on our spur of the moment trash talking, it doesn't understand our intricacies' that got someone banned.

No, it's reality. I have never seen a vast majority of the people posting here post in a FGC related thread before, and there is no reason to believe they will after. This is just a hot topic right now, and once it blows over, nobody will care. It happens with everything on this site, not just FGC related.

Also, the FGC is one of largest communities on GAF, last years EVO thread got to 20,000 posts in 4 days. There is no "hiding in caves" here.

[19 & 21]

This is the kind of 'come back to our cave, ignore the outside world because it's just too restrictive on our spur of the moment trash talking, it doesn't understand our intricacies' that got someone banned. FGC distancing itself from everything is a recurring theme, and it's a pretty sad sight.

That's how the cycle is perpetuated.

'We should just drop this whole e-sports thing if it means changing the community dynamics and culture.' - Unwilling to adapt to social norms and expectations for the sake of tradition. We have enough of that shit going on in western civilizations and guess what? It gets no one anywhere. But by all means, FGC, you are your own entity and should govern yourselves as such. Many of you want more recognition within the scene but are unwilling to do what it takes to achieve it if it means changing negative aspects regarded as tradition. Who wants to take responsibility when you can just shut yourself off from the rest of the world?

[Feature]

Not the same way. White people may get harassed in some very specific enviroment, but they don't lose jobs or are denied bank loans because they are white, for example.

How can you know for sure? What if the guy deciding if you get the loan is a black racist?

Anyway, this is another discussion point. Sorry to go offtopic, just get annoyed a bit when people seem to state that only white people can be racist but not the victom of racism.

[Mockingbird]

Just read up on this and saw the day 1 video...what the hell? Did anyone at Capcom even bother to monitor this show while it was being streamed? Cause if so, how could they let this pass? How the hell can a company as big as Capcom let this fly? Especially in 2012. Girl has a huge lawsuit on her hands.

[QisTopTier]

Just read up on this and saw the day 1 video...what the hell? Did anyone at Capcom even bother to monitor this show while it was being streamed? Cause if so, how could they let this pass? How the hell can a company as big as Capcom let this fly? Especially in 2012. Girl has a huge lawsuit on her hands.

Now you need to find the rest of the story! It's in this thread and the cross assault one!

[Lyphen]

No, it's reality. I have never seen a vast majority of the people posting here post in a FGC related thread before, and there is no reason to believe they will after. This is just a hot topic right now, and once it blows over, nobody will care. It happens with everything on this site, not just FGC related. Also, the FGC is one of largest communities on GAF, last years EVO thread got to 20,000 posts in 4 days. There is no "hiding in caves" here.

Yeah, a lot of these posters, you may not recognise. Welcome to the outside world I mentioned.

[Mockingbird]

Now you need to find the rest of the story! It's in this thread and the cross assault one!

Too much work. OP need to update OP.

[CountAntonius]

Great article and worth a read for those of you who aren't familiar with the fighting game scene...

Who We are Really

It is a passionate, diverse community that along with others has it's share of problems that have now been brought to light.

This is why I love it.

I don't think this being brought out is a bad thing, especially giving the rapid and probable future growth these very real issues needed to be addressed. It's a shame it had to happen this way but hopefully everyone can learn from it. I feel bad for everyone involved and I really do believe lessons were learned and apologies were sincere.

[SmokyDave]

Do assholes of the video gaming community have certain physical features that typically characterize them or something? Hahaha.

It's not so much that, it's more that if the guy looked like Ryan Reynolds, I don't think he'd be saying the same shit.

[Conceited]

Yeah, a lot of these posters, you may not recognise. Welcome to the outside world I mentioned.

I don't understand what you're getting at. My point was that its not worth dealing with people who drop into a "hot topic" thread, skim through it, and leave some baseless, generalized, offensive comment like that dude just did because they're just saying the first thing that comes to their mind about the topic and will never be seen in a community related thread again.

If you want to have a legitimate discussion and do your research (like some people in this thread are actually doing) then that is fine with me. I'm not some FGC separatist.

[Charoncaori]

Yeah, most people posting in this thread will probably forget this whole thing even happened within the next few days, and we'll never see them post in a FGC related thread again, so it's definitely not worth it.

I can only speak for myself here, but I actively avoid this community because of the bigotry. That is not something any community should be proud of.

[CountAntonius]

It's not so much that, it's more that if the guy looked like Ryan Reynolds, I don't think he'd be saying the same shit.

So good looking men don't make sexist/inappropriate comments? Yeah you should probably drop it.

I can only speak for myself here, but I actively avoid this community because of the bigotry. That is not something any community should be proud of.

The "community" isn't at all. I agree a part of it can use some maturing but to say it's proud of bigotry is flat out wrong.

[Conceited]

I can only speak for myself here, but I actively avoid this community because of the bigotry. That is not something any community should be proud of.

I'm pretty sure with GAF's strict moderation if we were bigots we'd all be banned by now. I know for sure Aris would not last long here, but there are still hundreds of people in the FGC posting here, so I guess we're not all bigots.

[Black Flames]

I can only speak for myself here, but I actively avoid this community because of the bigotry. That is not something any community should be proud of.

Even though I'm a newer member of the community, I can honestly say it's not like that. Sure there are going to be a few loud-mouths here and there, but for the most part, the people that are actually active in the FGC get along.

[Sixfortyfive]

I'm pretty sure with GAF's strict moderation if we were bigots we'd all be banned by now. I know for sure Aris would not last long here, but there are still hundreds of people in the FGC posting here, so I guess we're not all bigots?

He might actually have based his opinion on a bad tournament experience or something, in which case you can't really fault him at all for the way he feels about it. Can't be too quick to assume.

If not, well, his loss I guess.

[Ogrekiller]

He might actually have based his opinion on a bad tournament experience or something, in which case you can't really fault him at all for the way he feels about it. Can't be too quick to assume. If not, well, his loss I guess.

Charoncaori is a female.

[Conceited]

He might actually have based his opinion on a bad tournament experience or something, in which case you can't really fault him at all for the way he feels about it. Can't be too quick to assume. If not, well, his loss I guess.

I know, I was just making a larger point.

[scar tissue]

Aris is...amazing. dat beard :lol
I really, really don't believe in PC and I'm a firm believer that trash talk containing some mild sexual/racial connotations can be acceptable in the heat of the moment, but calling out "Rape her!" crosses the line, even for me.

That being said, I don't believe in censoring this. Assholes like him will breed themselves out of the gene pool if they are allowed to run rampant. Muting them only makes them seem sympathetic.

[Sblargh]

How can you know for sure? What if the guy deciding if you get the loan is a black racist? Anyway, this is another discussion point. Sorry to go offtopic, just get annoyed a bit when people seem to state that only white people can be racist but not the victom of racism.

Because it is the exception to the rule. In the wild situation this does happens, it is wrong, of course, but when was the last time, in the united states, a white guy walked out of a bank thinking "if only I was black, I would have the money to start my own busisness"?

I don't think it's that off topic, actually (and if it is, I am sorry). We are talking about a dude who does stuff like sexual harassment because he feels that in the "good old days" it was allowed. But the "good old days" is not of the arcade culture toughening up those joystick warriors like they were in a sparta; it is the "good old days" where the minority (be it a woman, a black guy or a gay) can't talk back at the risk of, beisdes being whatever he was stereotyped, someone who can't take a joke (or, worse, don't know his place).

It is what this story feels to me. She is a woman, her place is to wear a dress so we could see he thights. She talks back, "it is only a joke", etc.

I don't really feel this is the "fighting game community" (but I can't judge that either, I'm not a part of it), I feel it is this one guy or a group like him; not to demonize him, but to use him as an example of something that is happening: people feeling that a politically correct discourse are against their basic freedoms, when what they want isn't a basic freedom, but the freedom to keep someone down;

Someone somewhere got kicked out of an arcade for being white? It probably happened. But to show how context matters, can you imagine that someone, somewhere, got harasseed out of an arcade for being a man? Can you imagine a man feeling uncomfortable at this arcade full of women trying to hunt him down?

Context matters. Someone, somewhere, may have experienced the counter-example, the exception, but that's not the issue, that's an unfortunate event, the issue is this guy (I believe unconsciously) trying to say to this girl that her place isn't there. He may not have meant it, just like he may not mean the superiority of a sexual orientation when he uses a homophobic slur, but this is the broad context. A white, heterossexual male calling the politically correct discourse "censorship". It is, to me, a bigger issue, even if this topic isn't for the big issue (and so, I apologize for bringing it up)

[henhowc]

The beauty of the fgc is that its based on not being welcome.

LOL...Aris the Orator.

[Sixfortyfive]

Charoncaori is a female.

Damn the lack of gender-neutral pronouns.

[Charoncaori]

Okay, let me rephrase that. I avoid the community because a few loudmouths, like Aris, make me feel alienated. It's great if your responses are indicative of the majority of the actual fighting game community, it's just that my experience with it outside of my circles of friends has been largely negative and unwelcoming, and people don't usually speak out against it.

I phrased it that way because Aris' comments made him seem proud of the fact that the fighting game community is allowed to be bigoted, and the news reports linked to provided examples of a few SRK members backing his viewpoint up.

I'm pretty sure with GAF's strict moderation if we were bigots we'd all be banned by now. I know for sure Aris would not last long here, but there are still hundreds of people in the FGC posting here, so I guess we're not all bigots.

And this is kind of OT, but that sort of weeding-out policy is why I really like GAF.

[Mockingbird]

Be as racist and sexist as you want, I guess. It's your club. I'd never join it or do I even want to be associated with it. What boggles my mind is the fact that Capcom supports and fully endorses such a community. Gave these guys a damn reality show.

[CountAntonius]

Okay, let me rephrase that. I avoid the community because a few loudmouths, like Aris, make me feel alienated. It's great if your responses are indicative of the majority of the actual fighting game community, it's just that my experience with it outside of my circles of friends has been largely negative and unwelcoming, and people don't usually speak out against it. I phrased it that way because Aris' comments made him seem proud of the fact that the fighting game community is allowed to be bigoted, and the news reports linked to provided examples of a few SRK members backing his viewpoint up.

It's very unfortunate that it isn't something that is dealt with more often. Nobody should be made to feel that way. I really hope the scene can grow from this.

Be as racist and sexist as you want, I guess. It's your club. I'd never join it or do I even want to be associated with it. What boggles my mind is the fact that Capcom supports and fully endorses such a community. Gave these guys a damn reality show.

Are you being willfully ignorant?

[duckroll]

Be as racist and sexist as you want, I guess. It's your club. I'd never join it or do I even want to be associated with it. What boggles my mind is the fact that Capcom supports and fully endorses such a community. Gave these guys a damn reality show.

This statement is extremely unfair to the other members of Cross Assault who took part in the show without being dipshits.

[Conceited]

Okay, let me rephrase that. I avoid the community because a few loudmouths, like Aris, make me feel alienated. It's great if your responses are indicative of the majority of the actual fighting game community, it's just that my experience with it outside of my circles of friends has been largely negative and unwelcoming, and people don't usually speak out against it. I phrased it that way because Aris' comments made him seem proud of the fact that the fighting game community is allowed to be bigoted, and the news reports linked to provided examples of a few SRK members backing his viewpoint up.

That is fair, and it really makes me sad that Aris is alienating people like this. The FGC is a such a fun community (just watch an episode of Excellent Adventures if you need proof :P), and its a shame to see people turned off of it because of isolated incidents like this.

[Ogrekiller]

Be as racist and sexist as you want, I guess. It's your club. I'd never join it or do I even want to be associated with it. What boggles my mind is the fact that Capcom supports and fully endorses such a community. Gave these guys a damn reality show.

Money talks.

And the FGC sounds like it could do without people like you too. People like you are almost as bad as Aris for expanding the community.

[duckroll]

That is fair, and it really makes me sad that Aris is alienating people like this. The FGC is a such a fun community (just watch an episode of Excellent Adventures if you need proof :P), and its a shame to see people turned off of it because of isolated incidents like this.

Watching EVO streams once a year is extremely fun though. That is the sort of thing which should have much more exposure, to show people that best side of the FGC. You have players from all the over the world, great commentators, solid match ups, diverse game line-up, and no one organizing it would think of focusing on the shitty parts of the community.

[Charoncaori]

That is fair, and it really makes me sad that Aris is alienating people like this. The FGC is a such a fun community (just watch an episode of Excellent Adventures if you need proof :P), and its a shame to see people turned off of it because of incidents like this.

I love watching matches, and I've read up on some of its history and been to a couple of movie screenings. It's just when I listen to things like the Sanford Kelly rant from the UMvC3 OT casually throwing out stuff like this game sucks because women can play, it makes me think twice about getting further into the fandom. It feels ingrained.

I'll check out Excellent Adventures, though. =D

Also, I went to Chinatown Fair a few times before it closed, but just played Puzzle Bobble the whole time. It seemed like a really nice place.

[Mockingbird]

Money talks. And the FGC sounds like it could do without people like you too. People like you are almost as bad as Aris for expanding the community.

and people like me being...? please elaborate.

[Soneet]

Damn, this thread is too big, hard to pick up a starting point to read. Anyway, I'm 100% sure I had this discussion on GAF before and some GAFfers were viciously telling me to STFU for stating that there's a lot of harassment and immaturity in the American fighting games community (especially compared to what I'm used to in the Dutch fighting games community). At first glance I don't see these people in this thread, but they're definitely in the SSF4 threads. As long as there are people enabling them, they'll use that excuse to be dumb ass jerks (and think they're right).

[CountAntonius]

I love watching matches, and I've read up on some of its history and been to a couple of movie screenings. It's just when I listen to things like the Sanford Kelly rant from the UMvC3 OT casually throwing out stuff like this game sucks because women can play, it makes me think twice about getting further into the fandom. It feels ingrained. I'll check out Excellent Adventures, though. =D

I know it's tough and a lot to ask but the scene needs more people like you to show up and shut up the assholes who screw it up. I really hope you don't give up on it.

[Conceited]

I love watching matches, and I've read up on some of its history and been to a couple of movie screenings. It's just when I listen to things like the Sanford Kelly rant from the UMvC3 OT casually throwing out stuff like this game sucks because women can play, it makes me think twice about getting further into the fandom. It feels ingrained. I'll check out Excellent Adventures, though. =D Also, I went to Chinatown Fair a few times before it closed, but just played Puzzle Bobble the whole time. It seemed like a really nice place.

Yeah, that Sanford moment definitely isn't a proud one and I can see how that would make anyone not want to get involved with the scene or show up at CTF/Next Level for a tournament.

The FGC is always going to be a little rough around the edges (harsh language, intense rivalries, insults etc.) but there really is no reason for it to be so bad that it makes people uncomfortable.

[Salazar]

As long as there are people enabling them, they'll use that excuse to be dumb ass jerks (and think they're right).

I think sending out the message that folks' opinions don't matter, or barely matter, unless they are part of the community (however you get those credentials) is a pretty negative enabling gesture. In multiple and compounding ways.

The reaction is more or less inevitably going to be an exasperated "well fuck you then" and a confirmation of all the prejudices and apprehensions that were being suspended.

The people who aren't coming up front with that attitude are being helpful. Talking about postcounts in fighting game threads is, on the other hand, absurd.

[Ketch]

I'm not into the fighting game scene and haven't been watching the show besides some clips related to this fiasco.

I don't understand why people think the entire community is as jacked up as this one guy. It seems clear that you probably should take whatever Aris has to say with a grain of salt, everything from how it's okay to be abusive to how the community is made up of racists. He's obviously out of wack. I don't know about you, but I don't pay mind to crazy people.

Also, I believe that harassment (sexism/racism/whatever) can only be declared by the person who is being offended. I'm not saying they have to come out and say "Hey stop, you're offending me", but if you are shit talking with your friends you should have enough common sense to tell when someone is offended and then dial it back or apologize... this applies in all situations regardless of what sex or race or religion or political affiliation is involved.

I don't know about the rest of you but I talk trash with my friends all the time. We are constantly ribbing each other. I dish it out and get my fair share as well. We don't discriminate either, everyone in the circle gets their turn and the target is often whatever it is that makes you squirm (race, sex, religion, whatever).

I'm not trying to defend anyone's behavior. I'm just trying to say that it's not entirely fair for an outsider to get a view into a group dynamic (specifically the group of people in the stream) and then cry foul because they don't like what's going on in the group. It's up to those people to police their own. If they girl was uncomfortable, she should have said something, or someone else inside the group should have said something, or the guy that was being a jerk should have realized it. Hopefully either way he's realized it at this point and has apologized to the girl. No one else gets to decide what has offended her besides her.

Now, you could argue (and I would agree) that this was a televised thing being put on by Capcom and they have some measure of responsibility to protect the rights of the audience and the people participating in the show. But that's another post. EDIT: Also, you could argue (and I would agree) that Aris and this girl probably did NOT have the kind of friendly relationship where it's okay to jokingly say the kinds of things he said to her.

[Salazar]

Also, I believe that harassment (sexism/racism/whatever) can only be declared by the person who is being offended.

There are no meaningful dynamics of authority/confidence in social situations ?

Edit: That was glib. That can't be what you mean. But I'm not going to calibrate my degree of disgust with that of the person he was talking to/about. I think her opinion matters, but it shouldn't be supremely or exclusively decisive in the way you seem to suggest.

[Charoncaori]

I know it's tough and a lot to ask but the scene needs more people like you to show up and shut up the assholes who screw it up. I really hope you don't give up on it.

Yeah, that Sanford moment definitely isn't a proud one and I can see how that would make anyone not want to get involved with the scene or show up at CTF/Next Level for a tournament. The FGC is always going to be a little rough around the edges (harsh language, intense rivalries, insults etc.) but there really is no reason for it to be so bad that it makes people uncomfortable.

I feel like I should show up to watch at a Next Level tourney/screening sometime. The people I met there the single time I visited were ridiculously friendly. I kind of regret not going to the SFxTekken 3D launch event over the weekend.

[Hero]

This Aris guys is an embarassment to himself, Capcom and the community. He should be ashamed of what he said to Miranda and even the interview afterwards. Sexism, racism and bullying should not be part of any culture.

[CountAntonius]

I don't know about the rest of you but I talk trash with my friends all the time. We are constantly ribbing each other. I dish it out and get my fair share as well. We don't discriminate either, everyone in the circle gets their turn and the target is often whatever it is that makes you squirm (race, sex, religion, whatever).

Guilty of this as well. Immature nonsense but it does happen in close groups. The problem is Aris is very close with a lot of the old schoolers that now help run the community. They are used to the way he is cause they have known him for nearly a decade and realize it's not malice as much as insensitivity and stupidity. With a lot of these guy's suddenly being put in the public eye they need to be held accountable for how they present themselves and this is a step towards that. The dumb inside jokes we make amongst friends can also be very insensitive and hurtful to outsiders and should be something that doesn't become part of the community at large.