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Kikujiro
Member
(02-29-2012, 10:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

and people like me being...? please elaborate.

Ignorant and hater who judge a community based on a single person rant.

These are the racists and sexists people you are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHC8K...eature=related
Imm0rt4l
my titty out of milk
(02-29-2012, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Salazar

There are no meaningful dynamics of authority/confidence in social situations ?

Edit: That was glib. That can't be what you mean. But I'm not going to calibrate my degree of disgust with that of the person he was talking to/about. I think her opinion matters, but it shouldn't be supremely or exclusively decisive in the way you seem to suggest.

Yea that doesn't sound right. What I'd imagine that he could possibly mean is that there is a grey area between banter and harassment.
Ketch
Member
(02-29-2012, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Salazar

There are no meaningful dynamics of authority/confidence in social situations ?

Sorry, I don't think I understand the question, but I'll try to answer anyway.

I guess the dynamic of authority *should* be what ever is acceptable by the people participating in the social situation. A kindergarten class will have a different measurement for what is acceptable behavior then say a biker gang.... but a bunch of kids having fun shouldn't have someone come in and tell them they are misbehaving???? That's a bad example because the people in the stream aren't kids, they're adults and should be able to police themselves.

Did I answer the question?

Edit:

Originally Posted by Imm0rt4l

Yea that doesn't sound right. What I'd imagine that he could possibly mean is that there is a grey area between banter and harassment.

That's exactly what I mean, and what I was trying to say is that grey area has to be decided upon/acceptable to the people inside the group (aka the people in the stream).. not to people outside the group (aka GAF).
Last edited by Ketch; 02-29-2012 at 10:58 AM.
Charoncaori
Member
(02-29-2012, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by EasyTGT

I'm not trying to defend anyone's behavior. I'm just trying to say that it's not entirely fair for an outsider to get a view into a group dynamic (specifically the group of people in the stream) and then cry foul because they don't like what's going on in the group. It's up to those people to police their own. If they girl was uncomfortable, she should have said something, or someone else inside the group should have said something, or the guy that was being a jerk should have realized it. Hopefully either way he's realized it at this point and has apologized to the girl. No one else gets to decide what has offended her besides her.

We all have one thing in common: we play videogames. I think a lot of what's going on in this thread is that we recognize and identify this sort of thing in other videogame, traditional gaming, and internet/tech communities as well, and we're using this event in the FGC to air our concerns, soapbox-style. I'm happy for an opportunity to let people know that this sort of thing is resented by a lot of people and isn't okay anywhere. If this were a post about twitch.tv commenters (which I guess it sort of is) or the speedrunning community or MMORPGs or whatever, I'd probably be in here saying the same thing, no matter what the circumstances are between who was insulted and who was insulting. I want these views and behavior in the gaming community in general to change.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(02-29-2012, 10:59 AM)
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Disturbing. Also that guy with the beard is really scary looking.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 10:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Forkball

This kinda shit wouldn't happen in the Smash Bros. fighting community.

They're too busy splitting the pot.
Cmagus
Member
(02-29-2012, 11:00 AM)
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I don't think there is anyway anyone could defend Aris in this situation. Sure trash talk is part of gaming and always has been in some form but the way Aris acted was just plain unacceptable. If you mess up I am gonna smell you... like is he fucking serious? Watching that video was uncomfortable and disheartening in ways to think that they allowed this guy to continue on.

I also can't believe some of the stuff I have read today on this situation and some of the excuses like "oh everyone was high strung and stressed" or "you weren't there so you don't know the whole story" really? the video spoke pretty clear. If this guy can't act like a mature adult then he shouldn't be there bottom line. Someone from Capcom or running the event may have talked to him but he was allowed to carry on so they obviously didn't do a good enough job.

I am glad Patrick wrote his article I think it is something that needed to be addressed and good on him. Also blaming him for writing it is weak he went with what he had and the write-up complimented the videos just fine. Patrick is also someone I have faith in to research and no doubt he did and wrote his article with the best intentions. I do agree however that the opening of the article did cast abit of an unfair negative vibe on the entire community with the quote from Aris but I am sure it wasn't meant to be taken that way. I think the way the story blew up it quickly turned into many things.
Salazar
Member
(02-29-2012, 11:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by EasyTGT

Sorry, I don't think I understand the question, but I'll try to answer anyway.

I guess the dynamic of authority *should* be what ever is acceptable by the people participating in the social situation. A kindergarten class will have a different measurement for what is acceptable behavior then say a biker gang.... but a bunch of kids having fun shouldn't have someone come in and tell them they are misbehaving???? That's a bad example because the people in the stream aren't kids, they're adults and should be able to police themselves.

I'm sorry, I didn't think the discussion was limited to the stream - inasmuch as I don't think the cascade of stupidity was limited to the stream. I totally agree that they (including outside of stream folks) should be able to police themselves, but I don't think that diminishes the validity of censure when they don't police themselves. I mean, this isn't a closed-off thing. Either this scene has a slightly open, participatory, public turn or it doesn't.

And if it does, then saying that the community are the only ones who get to decide or measure what is acceptable, or talk about what is unacceptable, is a really bad look. I mean, it's going to have some kind of organising sense of itself (which you could flatter by calling it an ethos), and that will abstractly promote some kind of conduct. And maybe that ethos is really solid and works 90% of the time. But it's not adequate to just point at it when shit goes wrong.
Last edited by Salazar; 02-29-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Ketch
Member
(02-29-2012, 11:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Salazar

I'm sorry, I didn't think the discussion was limited to the stream - inasmuch as I don't think the cascade of stupidity was limited to the stream. I totally agree that they (including outside of stream folks) should be able to police themselves, but I don't think that diminishes the validity of censure when they don't police themselves. I mean, this isn't a closed-off thing. Either this scene has a slightly open, participatory, public turn or it doesn't.

And if it does, then saying that the community are the only ones who get to decide or measure what is acceptable, or talk about what is unacceptable, is a really bad look. I mean, it's going to have some kind of organising sense of itself (which you could flatter by calling it an ethos), and that will abstractly promote some kind of conduct. And maybe that ethos is really solid and works 90% of the time. But it's not adequate to just point at it when shit goes wrong.

No, I am in agreement with everything you said here. That's why I said:

Originally Posted by EasyTGT

Now, you could argue (and I would agree) that this was a televised thing being put on by Capcom and they have some measure of responsibility to protect the rights of the audience and the people participating in the show. But that's another post.

and I would continue to say that the responsibility also extends to the folks in charge of the FGC aswell.
close to the edge
Member
(02-29-2012, 11:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

This Aris guy is amazing. A disgusting sample of a human being who represents everything which is wrong with being empowered by a closely knitted community of douchebags who are now resisting the fact that their hobby has grown beyond their fratboy clubhouse, and tries to justify his pigheaded behavior as something which is normal and acceptable.

Choice quotes:

"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it’s based around not being welcome. That’s the beauty of it. That’s the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you."

"And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends."

"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."

Yup. That's pretty much what I took away from that GB article. It's good to see some members of the FGC (Jared Rea and probably/hopefully some other guys, I'm pretty much an outsider when it comes to fighting games) stand up against that sort of shit. That sort of attitude is disgusting. He apologized now but I don't really care at this point.
Last edited by close to the edge; 02-29-2012 at 11:21 AM.
Mockingbird
Member
(02-29-2012, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kikujiro

Ignorant and hater who judge a community based on a single person rant.

These are the racists and sexists people you are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHC8K...eature=related

I've nothing against the link from above.

I did not think the beard guy was representative of the community, as I saw a lot of players doing nothing to help her out, and I did notice the beard guy was getting help from the online community. He was obviously talking to various people online. and, I think there were people who defended/sided with him as well?

I mean, I even read the SRK letter and I think it even mentions there that what the bearded guy speaks isn't entirely without truth?

With that said, I also know not everyone in the community partakes in it. I have a few friends that used to play and win local tourneys all the time and I know they're not like that.

But even if they did, whatever goes on in the community -- whatever. If everyone there is cool with it then that's fine. You guys are likely friends/close enough with each other to make those kind of jokes that you can make.

But the reality show bit was what really threw me for a loop. Cause what I saw was pretty disgusting and the girl did not seem like she was comfortable with it. I believe it went on for five days -- without Capcom doing a thing about it. That is what I thought was disgusting.
Red Liquorice
needs to check himself
(02-29-2012, 11:49 AM)
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You only have to watch one of the regular streams for a short while to see what a bunch of dickheads some of these people are. Not everyone obviously, but there's clearly a culture, born from the sweaty teenboy anger and atmosphere of dark, smelly arcade nerd-holes.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Red Liquorice

You only have to watch one of the regular streams for a short while to see what a bunch of dickheads some of these people are. Not everyone obviously, but there's clearly a culture, born from the sweaty teenboy anger and atmosphere of dark, smelly arcade nerd-holes.

What? Look at all the players that place consistently in majors: they're mostly personalities in the community and not a single one of them is known for this kind of behavior.
enzo_gt
tagged by Blackace
(02-29-2012, 12:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Red Liquorice

You only have to watch one of the regular streams for a short while to see what a bunch of dickheads some of these people are. Not everyone obviously, but there's clearly a culture, born from the sweaty teenboy anger and atmosphere of dark, smelly arcade nerd-holes.

What regular stream are you watching, if I may ask?
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:17 PM)
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Just had a rather amusing back and forth with someone on twitter about this. You guys be the judge, is this what the FGC should be worried about changing? Because to me, this is what the FGC should be striving to get rid of.

http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...13539213656064
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...24296571613184
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...25679332978688
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...27151974076417
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...28747806093314
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...29475241000960
alstein
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:21 PM)
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I don't care how good or bad a player this guy or Aris is- the community would be better off without either of them- if they're incapable of changing their behavior.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-29-2012, 12:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Just had a rather amusing back and forth with someone on twitter about this. You guys be the judge, is this what the FGC should be worried about changing? Because to me, this is what the FGC should be striving to get rid of.

http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...13539213656064
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...24296571613184
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...25679332978688
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...27151974076417
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...28747806093314
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...29475241000960

I don't know who this person is. Should I? If not, then I don't know how your internet argument with some random douche is relevant.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(02-29-2012, 12:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Just had a rather amusing back and forth with someone on twitter about this. You guys be the judge, is this what the FGC should be worried about changing? Because to me, this is what the FGC should be striving to get rid of.

http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...13539213656064
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...24296571613184
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...25679332978688
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...27151974076417
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...28747806093314
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/sta...29475241000960

Haha what a jackass

Who is this guy anyway, I just sent him a facetious message
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lost Fragment

I don't know who this person is. Should I? If not, then I don't know how your internet argument with some random douche is relevant.

Because this is exactly the type of shit that certain circles in the FGC are defending. I'd be shocked if Mike Watson himself didn't agree with every word this guy has said so far.
erpg
GAF parliamentarian
(02-29-2012, 12:28 PM)
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Ignore that, shoryuken says the scene is fun, accepting and competitive and that's what's really defining about it. You don't get fun and competition in StarCraft!
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Because this is exactly the type of shit that certain circles in the FGC are defending. I'd be shocked if Mike Watson himself didn't agree with every word this guy has said so far.

Yeah because random guys on the internet have a lot of authority?

Also who cares if Mike Watson would agree (or is agreeing)? It pretty much known that he's a dumbass and every inch of respect he gets is only because he plays since like 20 years.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Because this is exactly the type of shit that certain circles in the FGC are defending. I'd be shocked if Mike Watson himself didn't agree with every word this guy has said so far.

Those circles are a small minority. They don't speak for the rest of us nor are they large in numbers as I just stated. Every community has a small minority of jerks and the FGC is no different. But like I said, most of us don't tolerate that kind of behavior.
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by SamVimes

Yeah because random guys on the internet have a lot of authority?

Also who cares if Mike Watson would agree (or is agreeing)? It pretty much known that he's a dumbass and every inch of respect he gets is only because he plays since like 20 years.

Who said anything about authority?

Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Those circles are a small minority. They don't speak for the rest of us nor are they large in numbers as I just stated. Every community has a small minority of jerks and the FGC is no different. But like I said, most of us don't tolerate that kind of behavior.

Nor did I claim they speak for anyone but themselves. However, I question how much of a minority it is when this is the typical response I've seen to the situation from within the community. SRK, Stream chats etc. If they're a minority, they're a very VERY loud one.
Last edited by 19 & 21; 02-29-2012 at 12:45 PM.
aeolist
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:43 PM)
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It's completely disgusting that there is any kind of "controversy" about this. The Klepek article was mostly just direct quotes from the videos, this guy should have been immediately thrown under the bus rather than defended.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Who said anything about authority?

Then why are you even posting his tweets? He's a random nobody, he's not relevant.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
(02-29-2012, 12:44 PM)
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The problem with the FGC is that its mostly populated by young 20-something year old scrubs. Once these young men get married and have kids, daughters, they'll grow up and finally understand why calling women "bitches" and "rape" jokes aren't funny.
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by SamVimes

Then why are you even posting his tweets? He's a random nobody, he's not relevant.

Because he identifies with the FGC and has an opinion like you and I? Why are you responding to me as I am not a figure of authority in the FGC?
Sloosha
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lyphen

Ignore that, shoryuken says the scene is fun, accepting and competitive and that's what's really defining about it. You don't get fun and competition in StarCraft!

Who says?
Riposte
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:50 PM)
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You know what the world needs? Twitter wars. Here is my personal twitter war of the week. Let's just pretend for a moment I'm talking to someone important.
erpg
GAF parliamentarian
(02-29-2012, 12:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Because he identifies with the FGC and has an opinion like you and I? Why are you responding to me as I am not a figure of authority in the FGC?

Yep. What truly defines the FGC are the personal set ups and vocal amount of people who see etiquette like Aris does.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

Because he identifies with the FGC and has an opinion like you and I? Why are you responding to me as I am not a figure of authority in the FGC?

Because you and i are having a discussion and are posting in the same place.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21



Nor did I claim they speak for anyone but themselves. However, I question how much of a minority it is when this is the typical response I've seen to the situation from within the community. SRK, Stream chats etc. If they're a minority, they're a very VERY loud one.

You ever watch fighting game streams or any popular video game streams? For example lets look at Cross Assault. The show had anywhere from 5 to 10 thousand people watching simultaneously depending on what time of day it was. Of those thousands and thousands of people, maybe 100 or so are constantly on the stream chat typing stuff. And of those 100 or so, the majority are constantly making moronic comments.

So there you guy, a large majority of people are just watching in silence and enjoying themselves. Maybe they're discussing the show some where else like most of us have done using NeoGAF. But the minority that are speaking are normally loud and obnoxious and are the ones that get noticed and have in the past, done a great job of getting under peoples skin. Unfortunately that's not going to change. It's the nature of the internet.

But point being, yeah, that small minority can be quite vocal as they say stupid things and of course it catches peoples attention more when they do so.
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 12:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

You ever watch fighting game streams or any popular video game streams? For example lets look at Cross Assault. The show had anywhere from 5 to 10 thousand people watching simultaneously depending on what time of day it was. Of those thousands and thousands of people, maybe 100 or so are constantly on the stream chat typing stuff. And of those 100 or so, the majority are constantly making moronic comments.

So there you guy, a large majority of people are just watching in silence and enjoying themselves. Maybe they're discussing the show some where else like most of us have done using NeoGAF. But the minority that are speaking are normally loud and obnoxious and are the ones that get noticed and have in the past, done a great job of getting under peoples skin. Unfortunately that's not going to change. It's the nature of the internet.

But point being, yeah, that small minority can be quite vocal as they say stupid things and of course it catches peoples attention more when they do so.

I realize the GAF group isn't this way - they can't really be and expect to stick around here. The GAF FGC is a great place with great people, but so is the FGC at large. The biggest issue I'm having with all of this is how the reaction of the larger community has been apathetic or silent on the issue. When you have a vocal minority spewing bullshit and making every one else in the community look bad, feel uncomfortable etc why stay silent on the matter? There's only so much 'authority' can do in an unregulated group, a group like the FGC has to self regulate. Every time flareups like these happen, its because of a lack of self regulation.

Edit: For perspective on my perspective and a side note; I've dabbled in and out of the community over the last few years. I really wanted to get into UMvC3 but I'm fucking awful and the disconnect between being a shit player and being at least moderately adequet is so huge within the game and the community that its a difficult nut to crack, so to speak. I love many of the traits of the community and I really do enjoy many of the personalities involved with it. I'd love to get involved even more but it's tough to know how to go about that when you're on the outside looking in, and everyone on the inside wants to step their own game up as much as they can which means not giving newcomers the time of day in most instances.
Last edited by 19 & 21; 02-29-2012 at 01:01 PM.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by 19 & 21

I realize the GAF group isn't this way - they can't really be and expect to stick around here. The GAF FGC is a great place with great people, but so is the FGC at large. The biggest issue I'm having with all of this is how the reaction of the larger community has been apathetic or silent on the issue. When you have a vocal minority spewing bullshit and making every one else in the community look bad, feel uncomfortable etc why stay silent on the matter? There's only so much 'authority' can do in an unregulated group, a group like the FGC has to self regulate. Every time flareups like these happen, its because of a lack of self regulation.

Edit: For perspective on my perspective and a side note; I've dabbled in and out of the community over the last few years. I really wanted to get into UMvC3 but I'm fucking awful and the disconnect between being a shit player and being at least moderately adequet is so huge within the game and the community that its a difficult nut to crack, so to speak. I love many of the traits of the community and I really do enjoy many of the personalities involved with it. I'd love to get involved even more but it's tough to know how to go about that when you're on the outside looking in, and everyone on the inside wants to step their own game up as much as they can which means not giving newcomers the time of day in most instances.

I think in most streaming they should just distance themselves from the stream chat, sadly they cant't disable it directly since sometimes they need stream monsters to test stuff.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:05 PM)
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Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say

http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back...ond-the-drama/

There are also a lot more of the well known members of the FGC that have spoken out against this and in support of Super Yan but there is so much to list. LI Joe, the guys at Empire Arcadia, the Wake up SRK podcast, Fanatiq and more all had streams condemning that kind of behavior. Besides that there have been made tweets against this kind of stuff as well. More will be said in due time.

In the end I don't really believe Aris is that bad of a guy. He really does think this is just shit and giggles. I don't think he will change nor does he really needs to when he's around friends and people he knows. But hopefully he can tone it down when around woman, children or people he's not familiar with.
Last edited by Rice-Eater; 02-29-2012 at 01:09 PM.
Riposte
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Adam Prime

The problem with the FGC is that its mostly populated by young 20-something year old scrubs. Once these young men get married and have kids, daughters, they'll grow up and finally understand why calling women "bitches" and "rape" jokes aren't funny.

I hate to break it to you, but there are comedians who have made a buck off adults who may be married and/or have kids (daughters) for making jokes you might think are "not funny". (e.g. Louis C.K., Jimmy Norton)

That crap aside, 20 year olds do have a lot of baggage which they will carry with them anywhere they go. Obviously it is a lot easier to have them check it at the door if what they say will be used against them (in other words expectations are put into place). The alternative would be getting rid of things you don't like in all cultures and sub-cultures as a whole which might influence them, like sexism commonly found in rap. Not likely to happen.
Last edited by Riposte; 02-29-2012 at 01:10 PM.
19 & 21
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Have you read inkblots article?

I most definitely did and its an enjoyable read, but its not enough to tackle the issue. Change comes from within a group like this. When people do or say things that are unacceptable, it needs to be said while its happening. By everyone. But that's just my opinion, that's the only way I've seen things like this turn around.

I'll look into the rest you mentioned when I have more time.
TheOGB
Shots Shots Shots
(02-29-2012, 01:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

The alternative would be getting rid of things you don't like in all cultures and sub-cultures as a whole which might influence them, like sexism commonly found in rap. Not likely to happen.

Christian rap is the wave of the future
Sho_Nuff82
(02-29-2012, 01:14 PM)
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Shit like this makes me embarrassed to be a gamer, period. Grow the fuck up.
Firemind
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by EasyTGT

That's exactly what I mean, and what I was trying to say is that grey area has to be decided upon/acceptable to the people inside the group (aka the people in the stream).. not to people outside the group (aka GAF).

Here's an idea: grow the fuck up and stop being immature twats. It might have been acceptable when we were 12, but we're adults now and we should act like mature human beings with common human decency. Notable figures in the community should not enable these kinds of behaviour by instigating the stream with inappropriate comments. They should be role models. There isn't a competitive environment where making disparaging remarks is acceptable. The FGC is not the exception of the rule.

This isn't just one individual. There are numerous posts in this very thread that suggest the FGC is an insular group of people. 'You can't make an informed opinion if you're not part of the community' or 'this thing will blow over in due time and everything will be back to normal.' If this is how you want to perpetrate a healthy community, then fine, but don't act like you can get away with offensive language when it's being broadcasted by all to see, read or hear. These people have a social responsibility.

Either be insular and keep being twats or stop being twats and help the community grow into something more than just a pastime. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
alstein
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say

http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back...ond-the-drama/

There are also a lot more of the well known members of the FGC that have spoken out against this and in support of Super Yan but there is so much to list. LI Joe, the guys at Empire Arcadia, the Wake up SRK podcast, Fanatiq and more all had streams condemning that kind of behavior. Besides that there have been made tweets against this kind of stuff as well. More will be said in due time.

In the end I don't really believe Aris is that bad of a guy. He really does think this is just shit and giggles. I don't think he will change nor does he really needs to when he's around friends and people he knows. But hopefully he can tone it down when around woman, children or people he's not familiar with.

And I honestly don't think that is enough. EVO and SRK in particular, have to make sure there are consequences for acting like that level of an asshat. If people start getting thrown out of the scene, or tournies for a few weeks, for acting in ways disruptive to the community, then those folks will change or quit. That will trickle down and help the scene down the road. That article really smacks of whitewashing and hoping this goes away.

SRK is afraid to do this though, understandably so, but I think they need to take the courageous step here for the good of the community as a whole. There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.

The FGC has a lot of great people in it. That's proof that the asshat behavior isn't needed to have a productive FGC. It's not a defense of the FGC the way it is.

Aris may not be a bad person in his heart of hearts, but that doesn't excuse his behavior one bit.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by alstein

And I honestly don't think that is enough. EVO and SRK in particular, have to make sure there are consequences for acting like that level of an asshat. If people start getting thrown out of the scene, or tournies for a few weeks, for acting in ways disruptive to the community, then those folks will change or quit. That will trickle down and help the scene down the road. That article really smacks of whitewashing and hoping this goes away.

SRK is afraid to do this though, understandably so, but I think they need to take the courageous step here for the good of the community as a whole. There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.

Aris may not be a bad person in his heart of hearts, but that doesn't excuse his behavior one bit.

100% guaranteed that Aris will not go even close to the mic at EVO or any other major really which to me is really cool since i never enjoyed his commentary.
ElFly
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say

http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back...ond-the-drama/

There are also a lot more of the well known members of the FGC that have spoken out against this and in support of Super Yan but there is so much to list. LI Joe, the guys at Empire Arcadia, the Wake up SRK podcast, Fanatiq and more all had streams condemning that kind of behavior. Besides that there have been made tweets against this kind of stuff as well. More will be said in due time.

Condemning it is one thing, but actually doing something about it is way a different issue, and it doesn't seem they have the drive to do it cause

a lot of it is just crass behavior that you would not get away with outside of our male-dominated boy’s club. This is way too big of a topic for this article, but it’s something that I think we need to face and address.

yeah whatever, actually fixing it will have to wait until another article, hopefully after the media forgets about it.

This article is sad cause it is all about trying to make people forget about the problem and feel good about the community, instead of fixing the root cause of the problem.
Last edited by ElFly; 02-29-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
(02-29-2012, 01:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by alstein

There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.

If you're talking about that whole esports nonsense, there's a lot more to it besides etiquette/attitude. That's a conversation for a different thread though.
Last edited by Sixfortyfive; 02-29-2012 at 01:37 PM.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-29-2012, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElFly

Condemning it is one thing, but actually doing something about it is way a different issue, and it doesn't seem they have the drive to do it cause



yeah whatever, actually fixing it will have to wait until another article, hopefully after the media forgets about it.

This article is sad cause it is all about trying to make people forget about the problem and feel good about the community, instead of fixing the root cause of the problem.

What do you propose they do? The best they can do at this point is to condemn it. Evo is the Wrestlemania of fighting games no doubt, but SRK doesn't have any real power over how most other tournaments are run since tournaments are largely independent efforts.
ROBOKITTYZILLA
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:42 PM)
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I am absolutely disgusted by this but not surprised at all. My wife is into gaming as much as I am (she's also on NeoGAF) and we play games together all the time, and she's subjected to this kind of behavior on a pretty regular basis. She shrugs it off most of the time but it has genuinely hurt her feelings on a few occasions and made her feel like shit.

Smelling her and asking her cup size? If he was harassing my wife like that in real life, I would beat the ever loving shit out of that guy. Aris's behavior, attitude, and poor sportsmanship are entirely unacceptable and a poor reflection of the community. I hope something is done about this but I'm not holding my breath.
Row
Banned
(02-29-2012, 01:47 PM)

Originally Posted by SamVimes

What? Look at all the players that place consistently in majors: they're mostly personalities in the community and not a single one of them is known for this kind of behavior.

fchamp says "hi" (and throws a few homophobic slurs in just for good measure)

and he's far, far from the only one
obonicus
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say

I take what inkblot says with a grain of salt because he's one of the people who thinks the way the FGC currently behaves is integral to its community in a 'boys will be boys' way, as opposed to it being about people playing fighting games at the highest level. And I think his approach to this is a bit of him sticking his head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge any real issues.

Originally Posted by Lost Fragment

What do you propose they do? The best they can do at this point is to condemn it. Evo is the Wrestlemania of fighting games no doubt, but SRK doesn't have any real power over how most other tournaments are run since tournaments are largely independent efforts.

They can decide that a given offending tournament won't offer Evo seed points, and they can ban players from Evo. Not sure how far that'll go, but it'd be a start.
Last edited by obonicus; 02-29-2012 at 01:50 PM.
JudgeN
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by alstein

And I honestly don't think that is enough. EVO and SRK in particular, have to make sure there are consequences for acting like that level of an asshat. If people start getting thrown out of the scene, or tournies for a few weeks, for acting in ways disruptive to the community, then those folks will change or quit. That will trickle down and help the scene down the road. That article really smacks of whitewashing and hoping this goes away.

SRK is afraid to do this though, understandably so, but I think they need to take the courageous step here for the good of the community as a whole. There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.

The FGC has a lot of great people in it. That's proof that the asshat behavior isn't needed to have a productive FGC. It's not a defense of the FGC the way it is.

Aris may not be a bad person in his heart of hearts, but that doesn't excuse his behavior one bit.

What your saying doesn't work with how the current community is run. There are no leagues in the FGC that you can be banned from this isn't MLG. Because like the post Lost Fragment says the smaller road to Evo tournaments are run independently and in the case of Aris he isn't going to show up to any East coast tournaments so you can't really "Ban him for 2 weeks". SRK is just a central website is has no real power. Thinking about it kind of amazing how the fighting game is run almost completely internally except for the companies that rely on community for money ie Madcats, focus attack, broken tier, Capcom, and etc. Change needs to happen on an each individual basis, we have alot of people coming out saying this is wrong and I think thats all they can really do.

Which why the whole Esports thing is a big subject because it would mean a lot of change within the community possible moving into a more league based structure.
Last edited by JudgeN; 02-29-2012 at 01:57 PM.
SamVimes
Member
(02-29-2012, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Row

fchamp says "hi" (and throws a few homophobic slurs in just for good measure)

and he's far, far from the only one

Yes, and he lives with Ricky Ortiz. Next?

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