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ThatCrazyGuy
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:30 PM)
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I want spooky to move to whatever service provides him best stream setup with the least technical problems. Free market baby.

I just want my streaming to be lag free with no hiccups as possible. Maybe smooth 720 with 60fps maybe??? :)

Go team spooky.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
(02-29-2012, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by FartOfWar

Aris isn't representative of the entire FGC. The one dumb article you can find on the story IS representative of games journalism. Mwoah TM.

*sniff* I miss the Brodeo. Stay awesome.

Arturo has been talking all week about Spooky's frustration with Twitch.tv and their unreliable metrics for revenue. A switch to a more transparent provider is more than welcome.
Last edited by Aruarian Reflection; 02-29-2012 at 08:37 PM.
IpKaiFung
Junior Member
(02-29-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyGuy

I want spooky to move to whatever service provides him best stream setup with the least technical problems. Free market baby.

I just want my streaming to be lag free with no hiccups as possible. Maybe smooth 720 with 60fps maybe??? :)

Go team spooky.

general internet upload speeds aren't good enough for 720p @ 60fps doesnt matter which streaming platform is used but like I said where ever spooky goes I will follow, doesnt matter to me which platform he chooses to use.
Conceited
mechaniphiliac
(02-29-2012, 08:41 PM)
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http://emlarr.tumblr.com/post/184803...crossing-lines

Great article by TS Emlarr.
enzo_gt
tagged by Blackace
(02-29-2012, 08:42 PM)
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The inkblot write up does nothing for me. It's very "it's not all that bad" and fails to address the situation directly so to speak.

Sp00ky has got the best write up by far and I hope someone gets this in the hands of the media. Thanks for your persistent hard work and dedication Sp00ky. I agree, you truly are one of the community's leaders.

Sp00ky for 2012.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:42 PM)
great, so "pressure" is to fighting game players as "alcohol" is to politicans and actors. a cheap and easy way to slide out from under the accidental exposure of your internal grossness to the public at large.
CountAntonius
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

great, so "pressure" is to fighting game players as "alcohol" is to politicans and actors. a cheap and easy way to slide out from under the accidental exposure of your internal grossness to the public at large.

What do people want from Aris? He owned up to his comments, he apologized to her, he apologized publicly, I'm pretty sure this is a life changing moment for him. Should he go to jail or something? Be ostracized for the rest of his life for saying something truly offensive and stupid? I think he's paying the price.
Lord-Audie
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:49 PM)
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The thing about the streams is that there's a fine line between being silly/entertaining and just being crass.

The scene maturing doesn't mean that it cannot be funny, entertaining and fun. It means that the ways to achieve that don't have to compromise a whole section of potential viewers, because the comments being made are just out of line.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:51 PM)

Originally Posted by CountAntonius

What do people want from Aris? He owned up to his comments, he apologized to her, he apologized publicly, I'm pretty sure this is a life changing moment for him. Should he go to jail or something? Be ostracized for the rest of his life for saying something truly offensive and stupid? I think he's paying the price.

i want for people to stop trying to explain away the situation with stupid-ass platitudes that flat out make no fucking sense at all. for example: if aris can't handle a little pressure without acting like a fucking clown, why is he in the uniquely stressful world of professional gaming? the whole thing doesn't hold water.

the gaming community as a whole (not just fighting gamers) has some deep-seeded problems with sexism, and the amount of obfuscating and hand-waving people do about the issue is starting to get irritating. it's great that he apologized, and i don't think aris deserves any special punishment. but that doesn't mean we can just keep ignoring the larger issue.
BronsonLee
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:51 PM)

Originally Posted by CountAntonius

What do people want from Aris? He owned up to his comments, he apologized to her, he apologized publicly, I'm pretty sure this is a life changing moment for him. Should he go to jail or something? Be ostracized for the rest of his life for saying something truly offensive and stupid? I think he's paying the price.

He needs to pay a lot more. And actually apologize.
I get what spooky is saying, but I must disagree. did he cave under pressure at Evo 2011, too? Or countless other times he's acted a fool and got a pass?

Whatever the price he's paying now, double it and you're getting somewhere. This shit is unacceptable. Period.
outunderthestars
He's not our sharpest knife.
(02-29-2012, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

What do people want from Aris? He owned up to his comments, he apologized to her, he apologized publicly, I'm pretty sure this is a life changing moment for him. Should he go to jail or something? Be ostracized for the rest of his life for saying something truly offensive and stupid? I think he's paying the price.

This is an interesting thought. Outside of an apology, what should the guy do?
GitarooMan
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by enzo_gt

Sp00ky has got the best write up by far and I hope someone gets this in the hands of the media. Thanks for your persistent hard work and dedication Sp00ky. I agree, you truly are one of the community's leaders.

I agree it was very even-handed and well thought out, although like someone else said, I question his phrasing that states that Miranda "cracked under pressure." I think that can be interpreted in many ways, some not so favorable.
Wallach
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

What do people want from Aris? He owned up to his comments, he apologized to her, he apologized publicly, I'm pretty sure this is a life changing moment for him. Should he go to jail or something? Be ostracized for the rest of his life for saying something truly offensive and stupid? I think he's paying the price.

What would be a lot more productive than trying to further demonize Aris would be an open statement of commitment from lots of important figures in the FGC to openly call out this kind of behavior in the future to actively try and stop it. And then actually following through with it.
Doomshine
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:55 PM)
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Every single person on the show has said that it's been incredibly stressful.
CountAntonius
Member
(02-29-2012, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

i want for people to stop trying to explain away the situation with stupid-ass platitudes that flat out make no fucking sense at all. for example: if aris can't handle a little pressure without acting like a fucking clown, why is he in the uniquely stressful world of professional gaming? the whole thing doesn't hold water.

the gaming community as a whole (not just fighting gamers) has some deep-seeded problems with sexism, and the amount of obfuscating and hand-waving people do about the issue is starting to get irritating. it's great that he apologized, and i don't think aris deserves any special punishment. but that doesn't mean we can just keep ignoring the larger issue.

It's not being ignored at all. Nor is anyone trying to explain the situation to sweep it under the rug. That is what happened and now he is suffering because of it and so is the scene. This is a game changer thanks to all the media attention. I think it's sobering and a wake up. Only time will tell what effect this has on the FGC, gaming and well the internet as a whole because it isn't an isolated issue.


Originally Posted by Wallach

What would be a lot more productive than trying to further demonize Aris would be an open statement of commitment from lots of important figures in the FGC to openly call out this kind of behavior in the future to actively try and stop it. And then actually following through with it.

This I can agree with 100%. This is how you turn a negative into a positive and learn from the entire ordeal.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(02-29-2012, 08:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

i want for people to stop trying to explain away the situation with stupid-ass platitudes that flat out make no fucking sense at all. for example: if aris can't handle a little pressure without acting like a fucking clown, why is he in the uniquely stressful world of professional gaming? the whole thing doesn't hold water.

the gaming community as a whole (not just fighting gamers) has some deep-seeded problems with sexism, and the amount of obfuscating and hand-waving people do about the issue is starting to get irritating. it's great that he apologized, and i don't think aris deserves any special punishment. but that doesn't mean we can just keep ignoring the larger issue.

Right. I'm detecting an undercurrent of people almost wanting to make Aris into a scapegoat and pointing out that he apologized and he was under intense pressure, the implication being that it's all over now and we should all move on to other things (this goes hand in hand with implications that the media are blowing this out of proportion). But it's a bigger issue than just him and this one thing. If it wasn't him, it might have been someone else. The problem isn't that Aris said those things, the problem is that a non-trivial number of people thought it was totally acceptable, if not expected, for him to say those things. And that's something that needs to be addressed head on.

In a way, the argument being used to defend Aris as if he were just the unwitting mouthpiece for the raging id of the stream monsters makes a little bit of sense. But, contrary to the way it's being presented, that makes the whole community look worse, not better.
Last edited by faceless007; 02-29-2012 at 09:01 PM.
CountAntonius
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by GitarooMan

I agree it was very even-handed and well thought out, although like someone else said, I question his phrasing that states that Miranda "cracked under pressure." I think that can be interpreted in many ways, some not so favorable.

Miranda had her own set of drama this week aside from the Aris thing.
Last edited by CountAntonius; 02-29-2012 at 09:03 PM.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:04 PM)

Originally Posted by CountAntonius

It's not being ignored at all. Nor is anyone trying to explain the situation to sweep it under the rug.

perhaps not sweep it under the rug, as that'd be impossible thanks to the net. but explain it away? that's certainly what spooky did. his post read like a corporate america complement (shit) sandwich. "he was stressed | what he did was wrong | but oh so much stress."

this is what we don't need. the dude fucked up, and he got called on it. we don't need an explanation or a convenient fiction to alleviate some of aris' guilt.

all that needed to happen was the admission of a mistake and an apology, and that's what happened. anything else only serves to mitigate the seriousness of what occurred, and i'll be god damned if gamers aren't the most skilled self-manipulators on the fucking planet when it comes to deflecting negative attention away from their hobby.
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by GitarooMan

I agree it was very even-handed and well thought out, although like someone else said, I question his phrasing that states that Miranda "cracked under pressure." I think that can be interpreted in many ways, some not so favorable.

If he hadn't also noted that the things that were done and said were incredibly hurtful to her then I could see it being a way to try to explain away her mental state without it being about what Aris did. But he both noted that Aris caused a lot of harm to her and that the pressure got to her. That, I think, is pretty fair.
trw
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Wallach

What would be a lot more productive than trying to further demonize Aris would be an open statement of commitment from lots of important figures in the FGC to openly call out this kind of behavior in the future to actively try and stop it. And then actually following through with it.

I agree with this and spookys general comments. What I don't like about what spooky said however is the excuses about both being under pressure and in a stressful situation. Sure this is more important than demonizing Aris and calling for a witchhunt but there should be no excuse made at all.

And also it's strange that this for some turns into a discussion about what happens when the FGC gets more exposure, it should not even factor in. The first thing that should be said is that sexual harassment is unacceptable and has no place anywhere, doesn't matter if it was in a capcom sponsored event or in an arcade. Then from there you can start making comments to move away from the things Aris did and look at it from a broader perspective.

That some in this thread even starts to argue about stuff like that she laughed on camera and other blaming the victim crap is sickening. I don't paint the FGC under a broad brush and know that it's the vocal minority that does this shit but the first thing I've seen both in the Cross Assault thread and here is people trying to downplaying it instead of accepting this happened and trying to do something about it. And the Aris comment about the situation is despicable. He not only doesn't address the harassment at all and tries to shift the focus to him just not articulating his opinions well. If the only issue was his comments this wouldn't have garnered media attention, his harassment did and until he apologizes for that I don't think anyone should try to defend him at all.
GitarooMan
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

Right. I'm detecting an undercurrent of people almost wanting to make Aris into a scapegoat and pointing out that he apologized and he was under intense pressure, the implication being that it's all over now and we should all move on to other things (this goes hand in hand with implications that the media are blowing this out of proportion). But it's a bigger issue than just him and this one thing. If it wasn't him, it might have been someone else. The problem isn't that Aris said those things, the problem is that a non-trivial number of people thought it was totally acceptable, if not expected, for him to say those things. And that's something that needs to be addressed head on.

Yeah, I think in the long term the specific incident, rightfully chastised as wrong and heavily criticized, is a good opening to a larger discussion about the community. The FGC is experiencing something no different than any other community when seeing a spike in popularity. In the late 90s into the early-mid 2000s, it was a pretty small group, everyone knew most everyone, and it was a pretty exclusive club. With the recent regrowth of the genre, the natural conflict of broader inclusion vs. the cache of exclusivity is growing and has to be addressed. There is certainly a comfort level in staying exclusive and exclusionary, but ultimately you miss out on a lot of interesting viewpoints, people, and diversity that expansion brings. It is ultimately for the better IMO, even if some of the old habits have to adjust to broader group of people.

NeoGAF basically has gone through the same thing, from its roots as a much narrower, exclusive group that was hard to crack, to a much more diverse and broader group as time as gone on. Certain attitudes and other more "exclusive" inside-joke stuff have changed, but overall the change is for the better as the variety of people and posts has exploded. The same will happen here in the end I think.
CountAntonius
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

perhaps not sweep it under the rug, as that'd be impossible thanks to the net. but explain it away? that's certainly what spooky did. his post read like a corporate america complement (shit) sandwich. "he was stressed | what he did was wrong | but oh so much stress."

this is what we don't need. the dude fucked up, and he got called on it. we don't need an explanation or a convenient fiction to alleviate some of aris' guilt.

all that needed to happen was the admission of a mistake and an apology, and that's what happened. anything else only serves to mitigate the seriousness of what occurred, and i'll be god damned if gamers aren't the most skilled self-manipulators on the fucking planet when it comes to deflecting negative attention away from their hobby.

I don't think the seriousness was downplayed as much as someone from the inside who spent the last 8 days with these people in the situation 24/7 gave an insider view of it all. If the media outlets can run stories based on twitter and twitchTV I think someone whom was has the right to say his piece.

Time and time again it has been said from people in the community including Sp00ky just now that what happened was a problem and should be dealt with. The negative attention is there now and we all have to deal with it the right way.
Last edited by CountAntonius; 02-29-2012 at 09:14 PM.
wolfmat
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by GitarooMan

NeoGAF basically has gone through the same thing, from its roots as a much narrower, exclusive group that was hard to crack, to a much more diverse and broader group as time as gone on. Certain attitudes and other more "exclusive" inside-joke stuff have changed, but overall the change is for the better as the variety of people and posts has exploded. The same will happen here in the end I think.

NeoGAF: The shining leader into a new world of internet.
Doomshine
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(02-29-2012, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by trw

And the Aris comment about the situation is despicable. He not only doesn't address the harassment at all and tries to shift the focus to him just not articulating his opinions well. If the only issue was his comments this wouldn't have garnered media attention, his harassment did and until he apologizes for that I don't think anyone should try to defend him at all.

A lot of the articles focused on the sexual harassment comment during the Jared conversation and that's what he was addressing with his tweet, several people have confirmed that he apologized to her in person, multiple times according to Spooky.
marathonfool
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:28 PM)
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What Spooky wrote was a measured response. I'm taking it at face value because the streamers help set the collective tone of the broadcast. From the camera angle, who gets to speak on the mic, and chat moderation policies.

I understand in this particular case, Capcom choose the participants. In the larger scope of the FGC and how it is perceived, the gate keeper are the streamers. If the greater FGC truly believes the comments by Aris are a minority, then don't put guys like Aris on the mic in the future. If it's not possible, then I guess it is what it is.
Riposte
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:29 PM)
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The recent bombcast handled this very well. Better than Patrick's "only the facts" article.

Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

great, so "pressure" is to fighting game players as "alcohol" is to politicans and actors. a cheap and easy way to slide out from under the accidental exposure of your internal grossness to the public at large.

Dude. It is the same for everyone. That's apart of playing the game. How many times a year do we hear a celebrity apologize and check him/herself into rehab? Aris seems like he meant it, since he still has to hang around most of these dudes.
Last edited by Riposte; 02-29-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Riposte

The recent bombcast handled this very well. Better than Patrick's "only the facts" article.

uhh, i haven't listened to the bombcast (like, ever), but from this description i can only conclude that their analysis was fucked.

in what shitty warped universe are less facts conducive to a good analysis?
Riposte
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

uhh, i haven't listened to the bombcast (like, ever), but from this description i can only conclude that their analysis was fucked.

in what shitty warped universe are less facts conducive to a good analysis?

" "
enzo_gt
tagged by Blackace
(02-29-2012, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

The recent bombcast handled this very well. Better than Patrick's "only the facts" article.



Dude. It is the same for everyone. That's apart of playing the game. How many times a year do we hear a celebrity apologize and check him/herself into rehab? Aris seems like he meant it, since he still has to hang around most of these dudes.

Is there a way for me to listen to it on my iPhone, on-the-go? Currently at school.
Chavelo
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

uhh, i haven't listened to the bombcast (like, ever), but from this description i can only conclude that their analysis was fucked.

in what shitty warped universe are less facts conducive to a good analysis?

Did you happen to read Patrick's article?

Serious question.
Judderman
drawer by drawer
(02-29-2012, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

uhh, i haven't listened to the bombcast (like, ever), but from this description i can only conclude that their analysis was fucked.

in what shitty warped universe are less facts conducive to a good analysis?

How about you just go listen to it? Discussion starts @ 1h30m.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Riposte

Dude. It is the same for everyone. That's apart of playing the game. How many times a year do we hear a celebrity apologize and check him/herself into rehab?

congrats on discovering the sarcasm in my post, i guess?
Amagon
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:36 PM)
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Can I get the link of Spooky's article?
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Chavelo

Did you happen to read Patrick's article?

Serious question.

yes. what's the problem?
Chavelo
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

yes. what's the problem?

Okay, how about the podcast?
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:40 PM)
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So, uh, I'm actually pretty surprised after all the stuff that has gone down that Aris is still going to be at Final Round. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if Sp00ky lets him on the mic.
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:44 PM)

Originally Posted by Chavelo

Okay, how about the podcast?

What he meant with "just the facts" article, he didn't really meant an article with just facts...

open and honest, i don't care enough about games to sit around for an hour listening to people chat about them. my point was simply that his description of the podcast made it sound like it was significantly less factual than the article, which seemed to me to be the opposite of what you'd want in an analysis.

maybe that isn't the case? maybe i read his description wrong? maybe none of this matters? i don't know. pointless derail everyone, sorry.
JudgeN
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

So, uh, I'm actually pretty surprised after all the stuff that has gone down that Aris is still going to be at Final Round. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if Sp00ky lets him on the mic.

Yea should probably put him in jail or something.........
2San
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Conceited

http://emlarr.tumblr.com/post/184803...crossing-lines

Great article by TS Emlarr.

Twas a nice read, I think most people will agree with what is said.
Lord-Audie
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by JudgeN

Yea should probably put him in jail or something.........

Just the off the mike is ok... you know, some consequence for his actions...
Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:48 PM)

Originally Posted by JudgeN

Yea should probably put him in jail or something.........

removing mic privileges from the guy proven to be incapable of handling them with respect and sanity = incarceration.

you fucking cretin
h3ro
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

So, uh, I'm actually pretty surprised after all the stuff that has gone down that Aris is still going to be at Final Round. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if Sp00ky lets him on the mic.

I think he should be allowed to stay a visible part of the community and given the opportunity to change his ways. Shunning him doesn't help. I think he should be afforded the chance to apologize on air and commentate some matches.

Before all this nonsense, and even before him and Kayo Police's fantastic Evo segment, Aris had us all in stitches with his jokes. It wasn't always PC but it wasn't hate filled or misogynistic either.
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(02-29-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins


you fucking cretin

Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
(02-29-2012, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by FallingEdge

Out of curiosity, how many of you guys participated in local/major tourneys and have you ever felt uncomfortable?

I've been to two major tournaments by myself as a complete nobody and felt extremely comfortable and welcome. Sure, you'll see people popping off, feeling themselves, and getting hype, but it's nothing different from what you see at any sports arena in the country. So if you can't handle what you hear at a baseball game, maybe going to a tourney isn't the best idea.

People whose only experience with the FGC is through watching streams have a skewed perception of what these events are like. I am a scrub and not a single person at the venue knows who I am, but I got plenty of advice from strangers watching my matches after going 0-2 in both tournaments. The first night going to a tournament, I went out for dinner with GamerBee, ChocoBlanka, and Momochi. Plus it seems to be a tradition to have giant post-tournament dinners together. So the 2nd night, I was having pizza with Mike Ross, Gootecks, Markman, Justin Wong, Chris Hu, you name it.

Before I went to that first tournament, I was very intimidated, not just because I'm a bad player, but also because I had this perception from watching streams that tournaments were aggressive and unwelcoming. That is far from the case and my experiences have been very positive.
Last edited by Aruarian Reflection; 02-29-2012 at 09:55 PM.
Lord-Audie
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by h3ro

I think he should be allowed to stay a visible part of the community and given the opportunity to change his ways. Shunning him doesn't help. I think he should be afforded the chance to apologize on air and commentate some matches.

Before all this nonsense, and even before him and Kayo Police's fantastic Evo segment, Aris had us all in stitches with his jokes. It wasn't always PC but it wasn't hate filled or misogynistic either.

There's plenty of space between shunning and not being on the mike for a while.
Chavelo
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

removing mic privileges from the guy proven to be incapable of handling them with respect and sanity = incarceration.

you fucking cretin

JudgeN
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

removing mic privileges from the guy proven to be incapable of handling them with respect and sanity = incarceration.

you fucking cretin

really? smh

The post I quote made it sound like he shouldn't even be at the event period.
obonicus
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Neato_Jinkins

uhh, i haven't listened to the bombcast (like, ever), but from this description i can only conclude that their analysis was fucked.

in what shitty warped universe are less facts conducive to a good analysis?

Jeff was less negative towards Aris, and he brought up some interesting parallels that help explain (but don't really excuse) the FGC's insular nature. But to put it into context, on SA Jeff felt the need to defend himself since people were accusing him of defending Aris, and had this to say:

So... you're probably right about that, it comes off a bit weird. I think the discussion probably would have made a bit more sense if we had started with the "yeah, fuck that guy" part of the conversation and worked into what I was getting at. Instead we went at it the other way around because we had already spent the hour or so before recording the podcast talking about how fucked up everything that came out of the dude's mouth was. So I think I was already into trying to understand how in the fuck that guy thought that was an OK attitude to take, because we had already had the "obviously, this guy is a piece of shit" part of the conversation off-mic.

I thought about making some heavy edits to that section but after listening back to the whole thing today, I decided against it. Just know that I'm not trying to defend that idiot.

Neato_Jinkins
Member
(02-29-2012, 09:53 PM)
we really gonna pretend like that wasn't a profoundly childish equivalence fallacy?

send me a crayon drawing of the words "Yea should probably put him in jail or something........." and i'll tape it to my fucking fridge if it'll make you feel better
Dylan
Banned
(02-29-2012, 09:53 PM)
The degree of tolerance that GAF has displayed towards the sexually insolent dwarf is inexcusable. Where are the photoshops?

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