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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!

Kikujiro

Member
So, uh, I'm actually pretty surprised after all the stuff that has gone down that Aris is still going to be at Final Round. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if Sp00ky lets him on the mic.

So what should they do, never speak to him again? Put a sign "Aris is not welcomed" outside the venue?
Sherry defended Aris despite his stupid acts against another woman. Maybe, and I mean maybe, Aris is not a demonic creature who lives to harass girls, but simply a man who said some stupid shit and now needs to demonstrate he learned from his mistakes.

Some of you seem to really enjoy a public lynching.
 
Jeff was less negative towards Aris, and he brought up some interesting parallels that help explain (but don't really excuse) the FGC's insular nature. But to put it into context, on SA Jeff felt the need to defend himself since people were accusing him of defending Aris, and had this to say:

i see, thanks for the rundown
 
professional athletes get fined/suspended for immature behavior all the time. if you want to be treated like a professional, be prepared to face punishment like a professional.

locking the dude out of one or two tournaments is not some fucking lifetime sentence, people.
 

obonicus

Member
So what should they do, never speak to him again? Put a sign "Aris is not welcomed" outside the venue?
Sherry defended Aris despite his stupid acts against another woman. Maybe, and I mean maybe, Aris is not a demonic creature who lives to harass girls, but simply a man who said some stupid shit and now needs to demonstrate he learned from his mistakes.

The issue is the FGC putting is money where its mouth is. It's great for them to say that they frown on Aris' speech, but anything less would paint them exactly as the band of scumbags they don't want to appear as. So there should be consequences. Oh, you agree that this this behavior is unacceptable? Please show us how.

Otherwise it seems that next time this happens, people will just get off with a stern talking-to, a forced apology and then we all pretend it's all business as usual.
 
professional athletes get fined/suspended for immature behavior all the time. if you want to be treated like a professional, be prepared to face punishment like a professional.

locking the dude out of one or two tournaments is not some fucking lifetime sentence, people.

You could have made your point without having to use that.

Seems like you and Aris have much in common. Using things on argument that don't help your point.
 

Doomshine

Member
I was surprisingly not that frustrated listening to the bombcast, something I usually am when they discuss controversies. The only thing that almost got me was the part where they suggested that the FGC was jealous of Starcraft's success.
 
So what should they do, never speak to him again? Put a sign "Aris is not welcomed" outside the venue?
Sherry defended Aris despite his stupid acts against another woman. Maybe, and I mean maybe, Aris is not a demonic creature who lives to harass girls, but simply a man who said some stupid shit and now needs to demonstrate he learned from his mistakes.

Let's review what he said.

I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone.
Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone

He's not sorry about being a complete fuckup of a human being. He's sorry he got caught being a complete fuckup of a human being. There's a big difference when you qualify statements in that way.
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
So, uh, I'm actually pretty surprised after all the stuff that has gone down that Aris is still going to be at Final Round. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if Sp00ky lets him on the mic.

What are they supposed to do, call the cops and have him removed if he shows up? Tell him he can't come? That is stupid. Aris is close friends with most of the people at FR, and still a part of the community, so he will no doubt be welcome there. Will he be allowed on the mic? Maybe just to address the issue, but other than that I doubt it. Acting like he shouldn't be "allowed" to attend a tournament as some kind of punishment is completely ridiculous.
 
Looks like your time discussing this issue is up.

ahem, mods? can we get some mods in here? some dumb baby in this thread expressed a sniveling, nonsensical exaggeration in response to a reasonable request and this other guy immediately called him on it. mods? WHERE ARE THE MODS?! CLEAN UP THIS MESS MODS!!
 

JudgeN

Member
If that's what it sounded like, why didn't you respond to that instead of making up a strawman about jail?

professional athletes get fined/suspended for immature behavior all the time. if you want to be treated like a professional, be prepared to face punishment like a professional.

locking the dude out of one or two tournaments is not some fucking lifetime sentence, people.


Because I already discussed this a 5 or so pages back about how each tournament is independent made up of mostly volunteers. There is no system in place to "ban him" besides why not give him a chance, maybe he's reevaluated himself.

Listened to the bombcast and it was pretty good discussion except one part, where they made it sound like women just hit his massive wall of harassment when they walk into the door. Certainly wasn't something Ive noticed with the couple of tournaments Ive went too.
 
Because I already discussed this a 5 or so pages back about how each tournament is independent made up of mostly volunteers. There is no system in place to "ban him" besides why not give him a chance, maybe he's reevaluated himself.

simple: you own the equipment, you don't accept his volunteer hours. is this really that hard? you really think there aren't other people in the community chomping at the bit to step up and prove they can handle commentating?
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
Because I already discussed this a 5 or so pages back about how each tournament is independent made up of mostly volunteers. There is no system in place to "ban him" besides why not give him a chance, maybe he's reevaluated himself.

Exactly, tournaments are open and free to join by everyone. This isn't a regimented system like a professional sports team, and nobody is paying him.
 

obonicus

Member
Because I already discussed this a 5 or so pages back about how each tournament is independent made up of mostly volunteers. There is no system in place to "ban him" besides why not give him a chance, maybe he's reevaluated himself.

Major tournaments aren't hosted by nebulous entities we don't know about. With a bit of research you could probably name every single one. Evo organizers could reach out to them to try and establish a consensus, show a unified front that no, this is not acceptable behavior. Isn't that the point? That they're all upstanding and Aris is a bad apple? Or rather, he's not even a bad apple as much as he's misunderstood? Put your money where your mouth is.
 

Dylan

Member
The fighting game community on the whole has a chance to stand up and say "Hey, despite what everyone thinks, we are not just a bunch of socially inept rejects. We are mature professionals."

If the dwarf doesn't get kicked from the tournament I will personally no longer have any reason to respect that community.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
He's not sorry about being a complete fuckup of a human being. He's sorry he got caught being a complete fuckup of a human being. There's a big difference when you qualify statements in that way.

Basically

"sorry it pissed you off lol"

Instead of "I'm sorry I did what I did, said what I said, and I did not mean it."
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
The fighting game community on the whole has a chance to stand up and say "Hey, despite what everyone thinks, we are not just a bunch of socially inept rejects. We are mature professionals."

If the dwarf doesn't get kicked from the tournament I will personally no longer have any reason to respect that community.

OH GOD! what will we do now?!!?!?!?!

Is this guy for real? :lol
 

notworksafe

Member
The fighting game community on the whole has a chance to stand up and say "Hey, despite what everyone thinks, we are not just a bunch of socially inept rejects. We are mature professionals."

If the dwarf doesn't get kicked from the tournament I will personally no longer have any reason to respect that community.

lol @ the name calling. Keeping it mature and professional, eh?

Also good riddance. I think we'll be okay without the respect of someone who resorts to name calling with zero provocation.
 
Indeed!

This is a fun thread, a learning experience about not just the FGC, but the NeoGaf community as well

Where is the Aris defense force?

I'm seeing a bunch of people thinking it's more important to learn from this and steer the community in a more positive then continuously shitting on the same guy over and over and over again. How many times does it need to be said that he is an idiot who spoke offensively and deserves it being brought to light?

I don't see a single person defending him or what he said. It's just more important to focus on "what now" as a community.

Also "Dwarf" really dude?
 
For the people who have a chance, I hope that you guys actually attend a local or major tourney to take a look first hand how it all goes down.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
I had no idea about any of this until a friend of mine, who also happens to be a real-life friend of Miranda, clued me in.

Ugh. I love fighters, but I don't want to be associated with people like Aris in any way.
 

Threi

notag
ahem, mods? can we get some mods in here? some dumb baby in this thread expressed a sniveling, nonsensical exaggeration in response to a reasonable request and this other guy immediately called him on it. mods? WHERE ARE THE MODS?! CLEAN UP THIS MESS MODS!!

What in the hell is your problem?

Are you 12 years old?
 

Dylan

Member
lol @ the name calling. Keeping it mature and professional, eh?

Why should anyone be expected to show respect to the dude at this point?


A Microsoft Exec flubs a quote about online play at a press conference and GAF collectively assassinates his character without the least shred of censorship; meanwhile someone representing gamers makes a completely disgusting public showing, and we are supposed to show him respect?
 

alstein

Member
The fighting game community on the whole has a chance to stand up and say "Hey, despite what everyone thinks, we are not just a bunch of socially inept rejects. We are mature professionals."

If the dwarf doesn't get kicked from the tournament I will personally no longer have any reason to respect that community.

You can't just ban someone without a system and a reason.

Aris deserves at least one last chance to turn things around, and this is me saying that, and I consider his behavior completely unacceptable and I don't care if the FGC likes what I'm saying or not in this regard.

Feel free to disrespect the community though if it makes you feel better. I'd rather work on improving it.

That said, in future, I do think behavior of this sort should be punishable by bans from majors.
 

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
GAF is not one person.

Also, I don't think it's impossible Aris turns around. At least give him a shot. Geeze.
 

notworksafe

Member
For the people who have a chance, I hope that you guys actually attend a local or major tourney to take a look first hand how it all goes down.

Indeed. SRK has a nice "Regional Matchmaking" section that would be good to check for local tourneys or meetups. Local scenes are very chill and would be a good experience for anyone that is interested but unfamiliar.

Except EFL. Anyone in CO should just take a ride south to New Mexico instead. :p

Why should anyone be expected to show respect to the dude at this point?
I believe in showing respect to people even if they are jerks. If someone wanted to give Aris shit, there is plenty to go on with his actions without having to resort to childish and petty appearance-based garbage.
 
Where is the Aris defense force?

I'm seeing a bunch of people thinking it's more important to learn from this and steer the community in a more positive then continuously shitting on the same guy over and over and over again. How many times does it need to be said that he is an idiot who spoke offensively and deserves it being brought to light?

I don't see a single person defending him or what he said. It's just more important to focus on "what now" as a community and not continuing with a public beating.

Also "Dwarf" really dude?

the problem is that all attempts to "learn" and "steer the community" seem to involve pretending nothing ever happened. maybe he learned from his mistakes! why invoke punishment when there was so much stress? live and let live, gang!

the "what now" portion of the discussion needs to revolve on what exactly needs to be done to stop this from happening again. and as with racism or any other example of bigotry, what needs to be done is shame and consequences.

gaf seems pleased with a half-assed version of the former and completely opposed to the latter.
 

JudgeN

Member
Major tournaments aren't hosted by nebulous entities we don't know about. With a bit of research you could probably name every single one. Evo organizers could reach out to them to try and establish a consensus, show a unified front that no, this is not acceptable behavior. Isn't that the point? That they're all upstanding and Aris is a bad apple? Or rather, he's not even a bad apple as much as he's misunderstood? Put your money where your mouth is.

I'm talking about him being about to GO to the tournament, if spooky doesn't want to let him on the mic thats fine. But he should be allowed to be there and have a good time. Lets say Evo does reach out to Big E and says Aris is banned you aren't allow to let him in, how they going to enforce it? What happens if its he shows up? You think Evo going take away an tournament from Big E? Alot of this stuff is easy to say but its would be difficult in practice. Remember Evo points don't mean anything so taking them away is worthless.
 
Indeed. SRK has a nice "Regional Matchmaking" section that would be good to check for local tourneys or meetups. Local scenes are very chill and would be a good experience for anyone that is interested but unfamiliar.

Except EFL. Anyone in CO should just take a ride south to New Mexico instead. :p

We did and took all your moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy~!

Haha, that tourney was a blast. If you guys do some VF tourneys, I and a few others be down to make the drive =)
 

Mahonay

Banned
I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.
A fantastic post. Thanks for your input.
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
Why should anyone be expected to show respect to the dude at this point?


A Microsoft Exec flubs a quote about online play at a press conference and GAF collectively assassinates his character without the least shred of censorship; meanwhile someone representing gamers makes a completely disgusting public showing, and we are supposed to show him respect?

There is a difference between respect and basic human decency, something you and a few other people in this thread do not seem to understand.
 

obonicus

Member
Also, I don't think it's impossible Aris turns around. At least give him a shot. Geeze.

Honestly, I think the Kayo Police thing was his first shot. Also, a temporary ban would be temporary, obviously.

But what I'm hearing is either that getting the leaders in the FGC to cooperate is like herding cats, or that they're so disorganized and bushleague that any attempt to enforce a 'ban' would be pointless.
 
Also,

Rea: When I go to MSL or MLG and someone blows up a ghost [Starcraft], does someone go “Yeah, rape that bitch!”?

Yeah. In Starcraft II you get people who do that. They just don't do it at tournaments. You know why? Because if Idra at MLG acted like Idra on his stream they would ride him out of the tournament on a fucking rail. Epithets of homophobic and racial persuasions? Truly unsportsmanlike behaviour? He's got it all! And it's all over the non-pro levels of competition!

He needs to be barred from the pro level until he realizes what a complete fuckup of a person he is and apologizes unequivocally. Preferably until he loses his sense of USI.
 

notworksafe

Member
We did and took all your moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy~!

Haha, that tourney was a blast. If you guys do some VF tourneys, I and a few others be down to make the drive =)

NM so free. :( At least we made Jwong take 3rd in T6...so that's something.

I know we'll have another big event for SFxTK coming up...not sure what'll happen for VF. We'll do at least one tourney I'm sure. :)
 

alstein

Member
The degree of tolerance that GAF has displayed towards the sexually insolent dwarf is inexcusable. Where are the photoshops?

I think people realizie that photoshops would kinda diminish the argument about intolerance by showing the same intolerance.
 
What are they supposed to do, call the cops and have him removed if he shows up? Tell him he can't come? That is stupid. Aris is close friends with most of the people at FR, and still a part of the community, so he will no doubt be welcome there. Will he be allowed on the mic? Maybe just to address the issue, but other than that I doubt it. Acting like he shouldn't be "allowed" to attend a tournament as some kind of punishment is completely ridiculous.

To clarify, Valle tweeted that he was headed to Atlanta with Aris, which make me think that the plane tickets were likely on Capcom's dime for his role as Team Tekken coach.

I just figured after all that had happened they might actually quietly ask him not to be at the finale of the competition to let things simmer down a bit. But now that I think about it, the tickets were already bought so it probably didn't matter either way.

Obviously you can't (and shouldn't) forcibly keep the guy out of the building.
 
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