[alphaNoid]

It succeeds as a tablet OS and fails as a desktop OS. It will give Apple more of a challenge in the tablet space (compared to Android), but nothing more than that.

I disagree, because the idea of a 'desktop' is ancient and won't be allow much longer I'm afraid. Thats a broad statement with room for exceptions but my point is that the 'desktop' as we all grew up using, is history.

Change never comes comfortably, I remember when people said similar things when MS moved away from DOS to a GUI interface. Same complaints, different generation... its not my first rodeo.

[Windu]

I disagree, because the idea of a 'desktop' is ancient and won't be allow much longer I'm afraid. Thats a broad statement with room for exceptions but my point is that the 'desktop' as we all grew up using, is history. Change never comes comfortably, I remember when people said similar things when MS moved away from DOS to a GUI interface. Same complaints, different generation... its not my first rodeo.

its going to take a long time before the desktop goes away completely. (well i doubt it will ever truly go away, but yeah its going to be awhile for all the apps to be rewritten).

[-Pyromaniac-]

It still has no chance against the iPad as a tablet OS until high quality hardware/aggressive pricing/quality and vast ecosystem all converge.

For some reason I doubt all of that will happen. But with that said, it looks a lot better than android on tablets to me. So it's definitely a step up in the competition.

[SCHUEY F1]

It still has no chance against the iPad as a tablet OS until high quality hardware/aggressive pricing/quality and vast ecosystem all converge. For some reason I doubt all of that will happen. But with that said, it looks a lot better than android on tablets to me. So it's definitely a step up in the competition.

The ecosystem should evolve very quickly. 1 million downloads in one day is pretty huge. Dev's will have a huge market to play with when the full version is released.

[Divvy]

Desktops won't go away until there is a properly implemented way to have several applications in view at once. Many professions right now require you to have multiple windows open. Two at a time won't cut it. If they can implement a good way of doing this, then I'm all for killing the desktop, my windows are maximized all the time anyways.

[-Pyromaniac-]

The ecosystem should evolve very quickly. 1 million downloads in one day is pretty huge. Dev's will have a huge market to play with when the full version is released.

we'll see. Android ecosystem (for phones, and especially tablets) is pretty shitty (in comparison to iOS, not in general) and that probably has a ton more going for it for a lot longer than windows 8 has. MS just needs to get on the ball, attract QUALITY developers to create a lot of content. It's all on them. Just sitting there and expecting everyone to fill it up probably won't work out well.

[rozay]

It still has no chance against the iPad as a tablet OS until high quality hardware/aggressive pricing/quality and vast ecosystem all converge. For some reason I doubt all of that will happen. But with that said, it looks a lot better than android on tablets to me. So it's definitely a step up in the competition.

It seems like everything is converging in microsoft's world, and there will be huge development opportunities as a result. WP7 hasn't been doing very well at all but I'm sure more people will pay attention when they can write an app that works on future WP8 phones and W8 itself (potentially even a future xbox?)

There are some pretty important issues that need to be fixed (in general, the learning curve for regular people who are used to windows 7 is big) before that becomes anything more than a pipe dream though.

[Windu]

It still has no chance against the iPad as a tablet OS until high quality hardware/aggressive pricing/quality and vast ecosystem all converge. For some reason I doubt all of that will happen. But with that said, it looks a lot better than android on tablets to me. So it's definitely a step up in the competition.

the hardware is already out there and i don't think microsoft will have a problem getting developer support. Vista was a "failure" and it sold over 200 million copies, there will be an incentive to get onboard. Not to mention one of Microsoft's biggest strengths is its developer community.

[-Pyromaniac-]

I've personally seen no reason at all to be as optimistic as you guys, but hey, I hope so too. I get bored of technology fast, sooner or later I'll want a break from the ipad and iOS and it will be nice to have an easy second option.

[Windu]

I've personally seen no reason at all to be as optimistic as you guys, but hey, I hope so too. I get bored of technology fast, sooner or later I'll want a break from the ipad and iOS and it will be nice to have an easy second option.

its going to be on a shit ton of tablets and will have the retail support. It will be successful just based on it being in everyone's faces when they walk into a store.

[-Pyromaniac-]

Being on a shitton of tablets and having retail support didn't help the Android tablet business. But of course MS holds more clout I guess.

[Windu]

Being on a shitton of tablets and having retail support didn't help the Android tablet business. But of course MS holds more clout I guess.

well those were shit and the ecosystem isn't too great, and if there is one thing that people can agree with windows 8, it works really well on a tablet. People want another option (especially retailers).

[MrBig]

we'll see. Android ecosystem (for phones, and especially tablets) is pretty shitty (in comparison to iOS, not in general) and that probably has a ton more going for it for a lot longer than windows 8 has. MS just needs to get on the ball, attract QUALITY developers to create a lot of content. It's all on them. Just sitting there and expecting everyone to fill it up probably won't work out well.

I agree with this point of yours at least. My experience with my android tablet in terms of its app environment is pretty shit. Hopefully MS's app submission process will weed out the junk.
Doesn't matter to me if they filter out specialized system control apps like apple does, because ARM W8 is a joke (for my needs) and when I get a tablet it will be x86.

[SCHUEY F1]

I agree with this point of yours at least. My experience with my android tablet in terms of its app environment is pretty shit. Hopefully MS's app submission process will weed out the junk. Doesn't matter to me if they filter out specialized system control apps like apple does, because ARM W8 is a joke (for my needs) and when I get a tablet it will be x86.

Trying to find good apps that are tailored for the tablet on android is not fun.

[jagowar]

Being on a shitton of tablets and having retail support didn't help the Android tablet business. But of course MS holds more clout I guess.

Android really never had the retail support in tablets (how often would you see retailers advertise android tablets).... sure you had all the tablet makers producing tablets but they did not have that price argument they had with the phone (which was a huge driver in androids adoption).

Windows can compete against anybody in the pc/price space as it is the standard there.... People are used to buying $500-1,000 laptops now and will be able to get a win8 device in that same price range. I expect to see Windows 8 being on a similar trajectory to android in the phone space compared to iphone.

[StudioTan]

Being on a shitton of tablets and having retail support didn't help the Android tablet business. But of course MS holds more clout I guess.

You're forgetting that any Win8 tablet already has millions of "apps" that will run on it, only back in my day we called them "programs".

The new OS is so far ahead of any previous Windows based tablet experience it's not even funny and I'm of the opinion that it's better than Android at this stage and at least equal to iOS. Many people will be happy to stay in Metro for basic tasks but the tablet will still be able to run any other software they already use on their work PCs. That fact alone will be enough to get them a lot of sales.

I've been using Win7 on my EP121 slate for a few months but Win8 just makes the whole thing a much better experience. If only Wacom would hurry up release new drivers so that I get pressure sensitivity back in PS I would be in heaven. For some reason the Win7 drivers worked in the Dev preview but not in this version.

[Doopliss]

Dual booting Win 7 and Win 8, how do I access the files in my user directory on the Win 7 partition? It says access denied or something.

[InaudibleWhispa]

Dual booting Win 7 and Win 8, how do I access the files in my user directory on the Win 7 partition? It says access denied or something.

It worked for me, it just said "You need permission to access this folder" and I clicked OK, and was granted access.

[Shogmaster]

I've been using Win7 on my EP121 slate for a few months but Win8 just makes the whole thing a much better experience. If only Wacom would hurry up release new drivers so that I get pressure sensitivity back in PS I would be in heaven. For some reason the Win7 drivers worked in the Dev preview but not in this version.

Now I'm scared to load up Wacom drivers in my 2740p...

[claviertekky]

That's weird.

Setting the power button to shut down does the full shutdown, not the one that uses hibernation file for fastboot.

In CMD, that would be equivalent to:

shutdown /s /t 0

I only got fastboot when I selected "shutdown" from the lock screen.

Why is that?

[brotkasten]

Dude, my HP 2740p I got on EBay for $800 pwns with 8. SOoooooooo good. It's got 160GB SSD, 8GB of DDR3, Core i7, capacitive multitouch, and WACOM BITCHES! Sure, it's not dainty light @ 4 lbs, but it's a desktop replacement running Photoshop at full speed. So many great Tablet PC deals on Ebay right now: This crazy guy is selling a 2740p w Core i5 w 160GB SSD, additional slice battery and dock for $840!

For 840 I can get an iPad 3 and that crappy windows tablet. It's the better deal, IMO. :P

[Ultratech]

I'm starting to understand the complaints where people mention where it's basically UI on top of another UI. That's about what Win8 is coming off as to me.

The lack of a visible Start button is gonna throw people off, and I think most people in general are gonna get lost by it, unless they've messed with Tablets or Phones with Windows.

What's funny is that almost every time MS tries to redesign their UI stuff to make it easier to access, it almost always gets more complicated for people.

[StudioTan]

Now I'm scared to load up Wacom drivers in my 2740p...

There isn't anything to scared of. When I go to install it it says "No tablet device found" or something like that. Someone on other forum said that an older version of the driver worked but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

On a related note I noticed that Wacom announced the Intuos5 yesterday with touch support. I was looking to upgrade my Intuos3 anyway and with Win8 this seems like a no brainer to snag one of these puppies in the next couple of weeks.

For 840 I can get an iPad 3 and that crappy windows tablet. It's the better deal, IMO. :P

It depends on what you're doing. A crappy windows tablet isn't going to run photoshop or other graphics software sufficiently.

[Shogmaster]

For 840 I can get an iPad 3 and that crappy windows tablet. It's the better deal, IMO. :P

Psssaw, dontcha know that the iPad 3 will be $8400? It's true! Ghost of Steve Jobs told me (he visits me every night).

On a related note I noticed that Wacom announced the Intuos5 yesterday with touch support. I was looking to upgrade my Intuos3 anyway and with Win8 this seems like a no brainer to snag one of these puppies in the next couple of weeks.

There are more exciting Wacom products coming this year that are perfect fit for Windows 8... STAY TUNED! :D

[StudioTan]

There are more exciting Wacom products coming this year that are perfect fit for Windows 8... STAY TUNED! :D

Oh? Anything you can mention?

Should I hold off on the Intuos5?

[brotkasten]

It depends on what you're doing. A crappy windows tablet isn't going to run photoshop or other graphics software sufficiently.

I want to use metro on a touch screen, nothing else. I really liked what i saw in the ipad vs windows 8 video on the verge. If windows could recognize the iPad as touch display (with apps like air display) I'd even use that.

[Damon Bennet]

man launch is so far away. I will buy a ~$600 windows 8 tablet with intel clovertrail and a dock and hope that it can run team fortress 2 (i dont care if i need to lower the settings to the minimum or something).

I wont try the consumer preview on my shitty laptop, I want the touch experience from the get go. but this takes so long :/

[Darkkn]

Installed this on my main pc and replaced win7, what could go wrong :)

First impressions are pretty positive except the fact that many of the live apps are not available outside US and bigger EU countries. There is definitely jarring feel when going from desktop to start menu and i still find some of the metro aspects a little confusing.

Hopefully they make the metro stuff more animated with subtle animated backgrounds way more tiles that are actually 'live' like they are supposed to.

[Doopliss]

It worked for me, it just said "You need permission to access this folder" and I clicked OK, and was granted access.

Ah, worked when I went to it via Windows Explorer. Previously I was trying to select a lock screen image from there using the Metro settings, which gave me no option to grant myself permission to access it.

I'm starting to understand the complaints where people mention where it's basically UI on top of another UI. That's about what Win8 is coming off as to me. The lack of a visible Start button is gonna throw people off, and I think most people in general are gonna get lost by it, unless they've messed with Tablets or Phones with Windows. What's funny is that almost every time MS tries to redesign their UI stuff to make it easier to access, it almost always gets more complicated for people.

Most awkward thing for me is how the desktop programs are only in the taskbar and the metro apps are only in the task switcher. Alt-Tab has a combined list, I think it should be like that in all three places if you're meant to be able to move between the desktop and metro easily.

[scogoth]

I am starting to feel the OS. I spend most of my time on the desktop and I haven't found myself wanting anything changed back to the way it was in Windows 7. To me, it feels like Windows 7+. I have the start screen divided up into four parts with 'glance and go info' and 'desktop applications' greeting me every time I boot. Following those, I have general Metro applications and Games. It would be nice to be able to change the tiles for desktop applications to just a giant logo for, say, Steam or Media Center. The start screen is nice for when I want to quickly check some things but I can't say I find myself using it that much. I can see myself using the metro apps next to the desktop pretty often when the quality of the apps improves. I haven't come across any that will replace desktop alternatives, but I hope they'll come. I like the corner use for mouse, but the charms need to come up faster. Everything else pops up relatively immediately, but the charms take their time. I hope they address the power button. I don't see why I have to dig for it and it makes me hate the charms even more for taking their time. It should be an option when you right click the area formerly inhabited by the start button. Running on a HTPC with M&KB.

I see it as Win7-

MKB controls are terrible for this.

[StudioTan]

Most awkward thing for me is how the desktop programs are only in the taskbar and the metro apps are only in the task switcher. Alt-Tab has a combined list, I think it should be like that in all three places if you're meant to be able to move between the desktop and metro easily.

Yeah, I agree with this. I would prefer it if metro apps showed up on the taskbar so that when I'm on the desktop it's only 1 click to get back to them.

[ivedoneyourmom]

You're forgetting that any Win8 tablet already has millions of "apps" that will run on it, only back in my day we called them "programs". The new OS is so far ahead of any previous Windows based tablet experience it's not even funny and I'm of the opinion that it's better than Android at this stage and at least equal to iOS. Many people will be happy to stay in Metro for basic tasks but the tablet will still be able to run any other software they already use on their work PCs. That fact alone will be enough to get them a lot of sales. I've been using Win7 on my EP121 slate for a few months but Win8 just makes the whole thing a much better experience. If only Wacom would hurry up release new drivers so that I get pressure sensitivity back in PS I would be in heaven. For some reason the Win7 drivers worked in the Dev preview but not in this version.

This is not true. Some Win8 tablets will be WoA, which will be unable to run "programs", only "apps" (WinRT to be specific). So no, not any.

At the moment, there are 72 apps that are capable of running on WoA, and millions on x86 tablets.

[Shogmaster]

Oh? Anything you can mention? Should I hold off on the Intuos5?

I can't mention it but you should be able to figure out by my clue. ;)

[eurenainb4]

I just installed it and i'm liking it, but google music beta doesn't seem to work. Can someone confirm this?

[a secret-boss]

Wacom tablet. Gimme :p
it can recognize pinch to zoom, but without recognizing my touch as brush

[Windu]

At the moment, there are 72 apps that are capable of running on WoA, and millions on x86 tablets.

pretty good for a beta. Anyway, Windows will sell on traditional PCs and since they use the same UI as tablets, there will be apps for it. I think people are going to be surprised on how many are in the store on day 1. It will probably be the fastest growing store of its kind ever.

[Steelyuhas]

How do you guys have your start screen set up right now?

Here's mine:

Scroll to the right:

[Paradoxal_Utopia]

I disagree, because the idea of a 'desktop' is ancient and won't be allow much longer I'm afraid. Thats a broad statement with room for exceptions but my point is that the 'desktop' as we all grew up using, is history. Change never comes comfortably, I remember when people said similar things when MS moved away from DOS to a GUI interface. Same complaints, different generation... its not my first rodeo.

I honestly think Apple's approach makes more sense. They got bashed to hell and back when they went with iOS and not OSX for the iPad OS- but they realized that the OS has to match the interaction paradigm. It's why they're not shoe-horning iOS on the desktop- it just doesn't make any sense. They're melding the two in the sense of seamless data sharing, syncing, etc. What Microsoft is essentially doing is throwing a touch layer on top of Windows 7 and hoping it works out, while keeping the old. The UI works great on tablets and phones. On the desktop without touch, it's presently a mess.

[teh_pwn]

How do you organize metro tile sections? I'm installing stuff for work and it takes a dump on metro.

Also, how do I lock tiles? I don't want moving a tile in a group to fuck with tiles like IE, weather, calendar, desktop

I see it as Win7- MKB controls are terrible for this.

Eh, it's easy with MKB. You just sling shot at the corners to activate charms or use Win+C. Both become muscle memory. And if I could fix certain metro tiles, visual memory + spacial memory. Visual part of the brain rapes text, so I could see this being very powerful.

[Gattsu25]

I honestly think Apple's approach makes more sense. They got bashed to hell and back when they went with iOS and not OSX for the iPad OS- but they realized that the OS has to match the interaction paradigm. It's why they're not shoe-horning iOS on the desktop- it just doesn't make any sense.

So what was this?

[Windu]

How do you guys have your start screen set up right now? Here's mine: Scroll to the right:

.

[ivedoneyourmom]

pretty good for a beta. Anyway, Windows will sell on traditional PCs and since they use the same UI as tablets, there will be apps for it. I think people are going to be surprised on how many are in the store on day 1. It will probably be the fastest growing store of its kind ever.

I don't think it is bad, just not the claimed millions. I figured that I should point out the discrepancy.

I'm glad MS is trying to step up their tablet game. Google wasn't doing a very good job at competing with Apple, so hopefully MS will help drive the market and competition. I don't know how successful they will be, and I don't know what kind of backlash they are going to get for their new approach, and I think they should do more to integrate the desktop and metro, but I can appreciate some of its ideas MS is trying to introduce, and commend them for the it.

[claviertekky]

How do I organize groups in the metro menu?

[DayShallCome]

I am starting to feel the OS. I spend most of my time on the desktop and I haven't found myself wanting anything changed back to the way it was in Windows 7. To me, it feels like Windows 7+. I have the start screen divided up into four parts with 'glance and go info' and 'desktop applications' greeting me every time I boot. Following those, I have general Metro applications and Games. It would be nice to be able to change the tiles for desktop applications to just a giant logo for, say, Steam or Media Center. The start screen is nice for when I want to quickly check some things but I can't say I find myself using it that much. I can see myself using the metro apps next to the desktop pretty often when the quality of the apps improves. I haven't come across any that will replace desktop alternatives, but I hope they'll come. I like the corner use for mouse, but the charms need to come up faster. Everything else pops up relatively immediately, but the charms take their time. I hope they address the power button. I don't see why I have to dig for it and it makes me hate the charms even more for taking their time. It should be an option when you right click the area formerly inhabited by the start button. Running on a HTPC with M&KB.

I have similar thoughts as you. I've been using Win8 for a long time now (full disclosure, I work for Microsoft on Windows, but without any direct input on UI decisions), and I generally have a hard time going back to Win7.

Really enjoying everyone's thoughts on the Beta.

[SCHUEY F1]

How do you guys have your start screen set up right now? Here's mine: Scroll to the right:

Mine is pretty close to yours, except I has some people and websites pinned.

[teh_pwn]

How do I organize groups in a the metro menu?

Yes, this. I would like to know too.

[Windu]

How do I organize groups in a the metro menu?

crtl + scroll wheel (or touch the magnifier in the bottom right) and right click the sections.

[claviertekky]

crtl + scroll wheel (or touch the magnifier in the bottom right) and right click the sections.

Thank you.

I'm considering upgrading my current Windows 7 desktop installation to this Beta and forgoing the dual-boot.

I may hold off until RC though.

[Windu]

here is my full view:

lol @ my huge block at the end. Haven't gone through all of those yet, just decided to download everything.

[Brettison]

My shit is all jumbled together icon wise. I feel like I did something to jumble it all together, but I don't know what.