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WrikaWrek
Banned
(04-11-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

I can't tell if you like it or not. :lol


Did you get the sense from that scene that Loki is a mischievous, dangerous, intelligent demigod that is looking to conquer Earth?

I might obviously be blowing out of proportion but it looked like they were having a pretty calm moment considering the situation, intelligently talking about the ifs, no harm done, not feelings hurt.

Just rationally talking to each other, chillin.
Tobor
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(04-11-2012, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

Did you get the sense from that scene that Loki is a mischievous, dangerous, intelligent demigod that is looking to conquer Earth?

I might obviously be blowing out of proportion but it looked like they were having a pretty calm moment considering the situation, intelligently talking about the ifs, no harm done, not feelings hurt.

Just rationally talking to each other, chillin.

Loki is obviously bullshitting, that's why Stark puts that bracelet on before stepping out from the bar. It's obviously a super gadget of some sort.
WrikaWrek
Banned
(04-11-2012, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

Loki is obviously bullshitting, that's why Stark puts that bracelet on before stepping out from the bar. It's obviously a super gadget of some sort.

It's a face to face moment between the most dangerous threat the world has ever seen and the most intelligent man in the world.

Why do they sound so casual, and why is there zero tension, why why why
Kinyou
Member
(04-11-2012, 01:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by CaptYamato

The camera angle when they walk in front of the machine kills me. Looks cheap.

True. The generic music didn't help either.

Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

It's a face to face moment between the most dangerous threat the world has ever seen and the most intelligent man in the world.

Why do they sound so casual, and why is there zero tension, why why why

It actually seems like Stark is genuinely trying to convince Loki that he'd gain nothing from a battle.
Last edited by Kinyou; 04-11-2012 at 01:55 PM.
Tobor
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(04-11-2012, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

It's a face to face moment between the most dangerous threat the world has ever seen and the most intelligent man in the world.

Why do they sound so casual, and why is there zero tension, why why why

There was tension. And right after that clip ends, there is a lot more.
Hot Coldman
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(04-11-2012, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

It's a face to face moment between the most dangerous threat the world has ever seen and the most intelligent man in the world.

Why do they sound so casual, and why is there zero tension, why why why

Loki probably isn't actually there, he'll have teleported/projected himself into the Stark Tower to try and intimidate Stark, who- being Stark- is having none of it.
Secret_Riddle
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(04-11-2012, 01:57 PM)
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I liked the clip, but it seemed like an unimaginative way to stage the sequence.

Loki should be appearing in mirrors, and through other various illusory means. This sequence feels too ordinary, which makes it sort of absurd.

I did enjoy the dialogue though.
Pai Pai Master
Member
(04-11-2012, 02:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

It's a face to face moment between the most dangerous threat the world has ever seen and the most intelligent man in the world.

Why do they sound so casual, and why is there zero tension, why why why

Because they're also more full of themselves than any man in Asgard or on Earth. If this was a conversation between Loki and Fury or Cap I could see it being tense. When is Stark ever serious in these films?
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Secret_Riddle

I liked the clip, but it seemed like an unimaginative way to stage the sequence.

Loki should be appearing in mirrors, and through other various illusory means. This sequence feels too ordinary, which makes it sort of absurd.

I did enjoy the dialogue though.

Actually that does sound like it would be better.
Bit-Bit
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(04-11-2012, 02:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lemonz

New Clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=d6ASh6vVj0k

This actually adds more fuel to the fire of "everything looks tv".

There's that awkward shot of Loki standing in the middle of the room and Stark walking towards him. Loki is just framed weird in that shot. And the lighting.....let's not even mention it.

I'm still excited as shit for the movie seeing as how it's the mother fuckin Avengers on the big screen. But I can definitely understand the "tv" criticism.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
(04-11-2012, 02:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pai Pai Master

Because they're also more full of themselves than any man in Asgard or on Earth. If this was a conversation between Loki and Fury or Cap I could see it being tense. When is Stark ever serious in these films?

Not a good reason at all. I actually think Whedon wrote this part specifically in comic form and thought it would work on screen. The casual, tongue in cheek conversation would probably work on the page, especially with a decent artist. But it just comes off completely wrong on film. Where it's trying to be humorously casual, it instead comes off as being lazy and unimaginative.
Scullibundo
MEMBER
(04-11-2012, 02:28 PM)
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LOL. That was awful. Whedon needs to learn how to navigate a camera through space. Loki looks so fucking awkward standing in that pose in the middle of the room. That was also the only shot where he wasn't in a mid-shot. Why does Whedon love his flat mid-shots so much? This LOOKS like ass.
richiek
steals Justin Bieber DVDs
(04-11-2012, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

There was tension. And right after that clip ends, there is a lot more.

Like Loki throwing Stark out he window?
Blader
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(04-11-2012, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

Did you get the sense from that scene that Loki is a mischievous, dangerous, intelligent demigod that is looking to conquer Earth?

I might obviously be blowing out of proportion but it looked like they were having a pretty calm moment considering the situation, intelligently talking about the ifs, no harm done, not feelings hurt.

Just rationally talking to each other, chillin.

Perhaps just a bit.
Feature
Banned
(04-11-2012, 02:36 PM)
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Damn I'm glad I don't look into stuff like that. There would be hardly any movie I could enjoy. I don't care about some lighting effects or poses people take in which part of the room. That's probably the reason I'm going to love the fuck out of battleship later tonight... because it's just mindless action and I'm not fooling myself into believing it will be a masterpiece of cinema with the best dialogue and shots ever. Just like the avengers wont be.

Shaky cam hunger games level and bad CGI is what makes a movie suck for me. But haven't seen that in this movie.
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 02:38 PM)
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I still don't understand what the "TV look" is that you're all talking about.

I really like the look of this movie because it's so clean and everything is so easy to see in bright clear lighting. I hate movies that obscure all the action with blur and shaky cam or dark lighting.

This movie excites me because it's the one action movie these days that seems to be breaking the trend of low visual clarity.
okdakor
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(04-11-2012, 02:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

I might obviously be blowing out of proportion

Wait till you see the 3D conversion, and maybe Whedon could throw a little motion interpolation in it to nail the TV look
Escape Goat
(04-11-2012, 02:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zzoram

I still don't understand what the "TV look" is that you're all talking about.

I really like the look of this movie because it's so clean and everything is so easy to see in bright clear lighting. I hate movies that obscure all the action with blur and shaky cam or dark lighting.

This movie excites me because it's the one action movie these days that seems to be breaking the trend of low visual clarity.

its getting particular attention because Wheddon is from a TV background. I've never heard the criticism applied to a director before.
jett
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(04-11-2012, 02:44 PM)
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Visually it's not just Whedon's fault, the shit costumes, shit art direction and shit set design isn't helping.

Shit.

And honestly, Serenity looked completely different from Firefly.
Slayven
gimme some o dat God-crafted alabaster greatness
(04-11-2012, 02:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrikaWrek

Did you get the sense from that scene that Loki is a mischievous, dangerous, intelligent demigod that is looking to conquer Earth?

I might obviously be blowing out of proportion but it looked like they were having a pretty calm moment considering the situation, intelligently talking about the ifs, no harm done, not feelings hurt.

Just rationally talking to each other, chillin.

That's Stark.
Scullibundo
MEMBER
(04-11-2012, 02:47 PM)
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A lot of it IS the production design, which is fucking woeful. I mean, this movie has a $250m budget ffs. But when you have static shots and pans and an over reliance on shot reverse shot, it begins to look like you're filming a cheapass tv show.

I have no doubt that the action scenes, choreographed by the VFX supervisors will look much better. But the stuff that is being shot completely live looks shithouse.
richiek
steals Justin Bieber DVDs
(04-11-2012, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zzoram

I still don't understand what the "TV look" is that you're all talking about.

I really like the look of this movie because it's so clean and everything is so easy to see in bright clear lighting. I hate movies that obscure all the action with blur and shaky cam or dark lighting.

This movie excites me because it's the one action movie these days that seems to be breaking the trend of low visual clarity.

I thInk you just answered your own question. Unimaginative and static camera shots and flat lighting is not something you want to see in a blockbuster action film you're paying 12 bucks for.
Blader
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(04-11-2012, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

Loki is obviously bullshitting, that's why Stark puts that bracelet on before stepping out from the bar. It's obviously a super gadget of some sort.

Think it's the other way around: Stark's bullshitting, which is why he puts on the bracelet (guessing it's a remote for one of his armors).
Scullibundo
MEMBER
(04-11-2012, 02:54 PM)
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Why is Loki chilling in a penthouse apartment anyway? I'm guessing it is Tony's.
richiek
steals Justin Bieber DVDs
(04-11-2012, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by jett

Visually it's not just Whedon's fault, the shit costumes, shit art direction and shit set design isn't helping.

Shit.

And honestly, Serenity looked completely different from Firefly.

Well as the director, it's his responsibility to oversee the production design and costuming of the film.

Wasn't it Joss's idea to change Cap's costume to the garish version in the first place?
DoctorWho
BOSS
(04-11-2012, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by richiek

I thInk you just answered your own question. Unimaginative and static camera shots and flat lighting is not something you want to see in a blockbuster action film you're paying 12 bucks for.

I agree, everything in this film looks flat and it's disappointing, but I'll take it over shaky, close-up highly stylized shots that take me out of the moment.
Slayven
gimme some o dat God-crafted alabaster greatness
(04-11-2012, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Scullibundo

Why is Loki chilling in a penthouse apartment anyway? I'm guessing it is Tony's.

Doing villainy boasting probably.
Scullibundo
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(04-11-2012, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by richiek

Well as the director, it's his responsibility to oversee the production design and costuming of the film.

Wasn't it Joss's idea to change Cap's costume to the garish version in the first place?

You get it. There seems to be a lot of people here who think all a director does is work with the actors and occasionally decide where to put the camera.
Tobor
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(04-11-2012, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blader5489

Think it's the other way around: Stark's bullshitting, which is why he puts on the bracelet (guessing it's a remote for one of his armors).

I should have said they both were. Loki is feigning indifference, trying to feel Stark out, while Stark is pretending he doesn't give a shit.

I don't see how anyone could say there's no tension, regardless.
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by richiek

I thInk you just answered your own question. Unimaginative and static camera shots and flat lighting is not something you want to see in a blockbuster action film you're paying 12 bucks for.

I disagree. I prefer visual clarity. If I'm paying to see a movie I want to be able to see what's going on clearly.
Mikasangelos
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(04-11-2012, 02:58 PM)
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like the scene. Love the tension. You can tell Stark is nervous.
Blader
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(04-11-2012, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Scullibundo

You get it. There seems to be a lot of people here who think all a director does is work with the actors and occasionally decide where to put the camera.

Doesn't the director also storyboard and oversee the FX sequences too?
DoctorWho
BOSS
(04-11-2012, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blader5489

Doesn't the director also storyboard and oversee the FX sequences too?

Not all directors storyboard AFAIK. The best ones storyboard everything.
Scullibundo
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(04-11-2012, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blader5489

Doesn't the director also storyboard and oversee the FX sequences too?

Not all directors storyboard. But yes, of course he will oversee the effects sequences.
Blader
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(04-11-2012, 03:06 PM)
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I know, I was going to make a counterpoint to your giving credit for the action scenes to ILM rather than Whedon...but apparently Whedon didn't storyboard the setpieces, so nevermind :lol
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 03:34 PM)
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Although Thor was the weakest of the 5 Marvel movies, I really did enjoy Loki. The problem was that Thor had no real villain to challenge him. The Destroyer was a push over once he got his powers back. Even Loki was no match for him. The most fun action scene in that whole movie was his battle against the Frost Giants near the beginning, and even there he seemed to just outclass them.

Thor's problem is that he's Superman without Kryptonite. He's too strong and without a villain to be his equal, his story is not very exciting since he never even appears to be in danger during combat.

Loki was good though because I actually felt sorry for Loki. He just wanted to be favored by his father over the idiot Thor, but could never win favor because he was an adopted son. His whole plot was to destroy the Frost Giants out of self-loathing and in an attempt to impress Odin, but he never understood that Odin didn't want to destroy them, just peace.

Coming out of the movie, I felt more sympathetic towards Loki than the entitled brat born with all the luck Thor. My concern with The Avengers is that now he's just full of rage and will no longer be primarily motivated by the need to prove himself better than Thor.
Last edited by Zzoram; 04-11-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Hot Coldman
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(04-11-2012, 03:45 PM)
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Well, Loki just seemed like a gigantic douche. Marvel has always made the Asgardians a bit grey morally, with Odin often being painted as a less-than-ideal father, but Loki still comes off as a massive prat, mainly due to the whole killing and such. Unfortunately, they forgot to make it clear why Thor was different from the other Asgardians in the film. If anything, the Warriors Three and Syph seemed more obviously heroic. Thor and Loki both have plenty of brattishness- the problem is, on the character level, the story shouldn't be this standard good/evil plot because the "hero" and "villain" aren't too far removed from each other- both have daddy issues, which they both attempt to overcome in very uneffective ways, mostly involving clobbering Frost Giants- but the story was written as the standard good vs evil trope, so it really doesn't work.

I still enjoyed Thor greatly, but looking back the characters are definitely a square peg that's been rammed into a circular hole.
Veelk
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(04-11-2012, 03:57 PM)
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I'd say that Captain America was the weakest of the movies. There is not a single good fight scene in there, just a bunch of crappy montages. The videogame enemies that were the opposing army were especially bad.

For me, the movies go:

1. Iron Man
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Thor
4. Iron Man 2
5. Captain America
Last edited by Veelk; 04-11-2012 at 04:04 PM.
DieH@rd
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(04-11-2012, 03:59 PM)
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I really enjoyed Thor.
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Generic

I'd say that Captain America was the weakest of the movies. There is not a single good fight scene in there, just a bunch of crappy montages. The videogame enemies that were the opposing army were especially bad.

For me, the movies go:

1. Iron Man
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Thor
4. Iron Man 2
5. Captain America

I actually liked Iron Man 2 more than everything but Iron Man 1. RDJr elevates the movie, and any scene with Iron Man typically has better action than any other Marvel movie.

I liked all the movies though.
Sentry
Still Alive
(04-11-2012, 04:21 PM)
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For me it goes like;
  1. Iron Man
  2. Iron Man 2
  3. Thor
  4. The Incredible Hulk
  5. Captain America

Captain America was still pretty fun IMO, just dragged on a bit too much and the ending could have been executed MUCH better in a more satisfying way. IM2 was also fun, despite some shortcomings.

I don't remember enjoying Hulk that much, though i'm not sure if it's better than Thor or not... Thor was fun to watch, and all I remember from Hulk is the sort of dumb love thing and horrible looking Hulk.

Iron Man 1 was wonderful because it's up there with Spider-Man 1 in terms of hero origins and all that. Watching the evolution of Tony and the IM tech is a blast.
Secret_Riddle
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(04-11-2012, 04:38 PM)
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Since everyone is doing it,

1) Iron Man

2) The Incredible Hulk

3) Iron Man 2 (not as good as the original, but in some ways I'd rather watch it if given the choice between the two. Love all the element creation stuff, Sam Rockwell, the race track sequence, the final confrontation, plus the Walt Disney style Stark Expo. On the other hand, I HATE the party sequence. If they had done that scene differently, the entire film would have been remembered a lot more fondly.)

4) TIE: Thor & Captain America. Thor is a more visually interesting film (except for the town stuff), and they captured Loki perfectly. On the other hand, Captain America is a well-executed love letter to 80's Spielberg, plus a decent throwback to the old serial type adventures. I think it's Joe Johnston's best film, as well. It's also a better film than Thor structurally speaking (may actually be the best structured of the entire lot). At the same time, because it feels so familiar and nostalgic, I don't really think the material itself manages to ascend on its own merits. Bottom line: I don't think either are particularly great (although I enjoy them both), and each excels in its own area. I also typically associate them with one another thanks to their release dates being so close together. Finally, considering everyone expected them to be horribad, I think Marvel did very well with both of them.

Honestly, the only really great film they've done is Iron Man, and even then, I've always found that it has some unfortunate third act issues. The Incredible Hulk was very interesting too. At the same time, I actually feel like if they had retained a couple of the more philosophical elements of Ang Lee's film, it could've had a shot at being one of the best films in the entire genre. Don't get me wrong though, nearly every element of TIH is an improvement over HULK.

Cap and Thor are fun adventures that achieve the dual task of building the Avengers roster, while still being decent and entertaining in their own right. Marvel did well by maintaining the creative integrity of the people who worked on these films, while still making the adaptations feel like actual filmic representations of the comic books they're based on. The degree to which they've captured the way those comic books actually feel (in my limited experience), is what makes this collection of films unique. Still, without The Avengers coming out this summer, I'm not quite sure they'd feel entirely relevant in the way films like Iron Man and Spider-Man do; that's probably not a fair criticism.
Last edited by Secret_Riddle; 04-11-2012 at 04:53 PM.
Expendable.
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(04-11-2012, 04:40 PM)
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The first junket screenings are tonight, maybe some reactions will come out.
Solo
he got what he thought he wanted, but lost that which was most important
(04-11-2012, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by omnomis

Bill Pope.

Bill Pope only shot the Spidey sequels, not the first film.
LosDaddie
keeping Americuh safe
(04-11-2012, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Secret_Riddle

Since everyone is doing it,.

I would make a list too, but I've enjoyed them all pretty much equally. Well except for IM2, which is the only Avengers movie I don't own on blu-ray. The rest I own.



Originally Posted by Zzoram

I still don't understand what the "TV look" is that you're all talking about..

Something for the Concern Trolls to latch onto. I don't understand it either. Movie looks fine to me.


Originally Posted by Expendable.

The first junket screenings are tonight, maybe some reactions will come out.

When do you get to see it?
richiek
steals Justin Bieber DVDs
(04-11-2012, 05:04 PM)
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An interview with Joss Whedon in the New York Times:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...f-his-career/#

Q.
What would be an example of something you didnít figure out until later in the process?

A.
One of the best scenes that I wrote was the beautiful and poignant scene between Steve and Peggy [Carter] that takes place in the present. And I was the one who was like, Guys, we need to lose this. It was killing the rhythm of the thing. And we did have a lot of Cap, because he really was the in for me. I really do feel a sense of loss about whatís happening in our culture, loss of the idea of community, loss of health care and welfare and all sorts of things. I was spending a lot of time having him say it, and then I cut that.

Doesn't he mean Sharon Carter, since Peggy would be long dead? Still, pretty interesting.
Zzoram
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(04-11-2012, 05:13 PM)
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After rewatching all the official trailers, The Avengers trailer seems to be the best one to me. Hopefully that means the film will be the best film.
Blader
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(04-11-2012, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by richiek

Doesn't he mean Sharon Carter, since Peggy would be long dead? Still, pretty interesting.

No to both
Bit-Bit
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(04-11-2012, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by richiek

An interview with Joss Whedon in the New York Times:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...f-his-career/#



Doesn't he mean Sharon Carter, since Peggy would be long dead? Still, pretty interesting.

He could be talking to her grave.
Secret_Riddle
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(04-11-2012, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zzoram

After rewatching all the official trailers, The Avengers trailer seems to be the best one to me. Hopefully that means the film will be the best film.

None of the films have had particularly great ad-campaigns. That's why my faith in Marvel usually extends beyond their trailers; especially post-Iron Man. I remember thinking Iron Man looked terrible. A lot of people did, actually. That film was a huge surprise! I think The Avengers is a pretty safe-bet in terms of quality, but I suppose we'll find out in the next few days once the impressions start coming in.

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