[Salazar]

If the size is comparable to the 360 controller, I'm going to have trouble reaching those waggle sticks =/

Time to go to Russia for a hand version of that surgery where they break your leg bones and reset them longer.

Urgh, uni.

[Jintor]

I no rite

[Choc]

im not saying the wii failed

what im saying is that Nintendo for the last few years has made mis-steps in terms of what you would call the traditional gamer

if they can back this Wii U up with consistently good titles and HD quality games, with all the features announced so far

they have a very good system

[Yagharek]

im not saying the wii failed what im saying is that Nintendo for the last few years has made mis-steps in terms of what you would call the traditional gamer if they can back this Wii U up with consistently good titles and HD quality games, with all the features announced so far they have a very good system

Traditional gamers failed. Thats why we have dlc, patch-reliant bugfests and broken hardware.

[Fredescu]

Traditional gamers failed. Thats why we have dlc, patch-reliant bugfests and broken hardware.

I also think it's <victim's> fault that <perceived problem>. Damn that <victim>!

[Yagharek]

Eh, I blame the people who came up with the ideas, but no-one really stopped supporting the bad practices either. Just look at any thread about day 1 preorder bonuses and people are getting the game at seven different shops.

Your use of the word "perceived" problem is odd though.

[reptilescorpio]

I love gaming at the moment. Voting with my wallet has worked well and any moral stands I take are usually balanced out by the waiting game (eventual PC or GOTY editions that drop the issues)

Man Driver San Fran will be a cult classic. So fucking brilliant. It's like the next generation Burnout I was hoping for! Thank Choc and Jintor for pimping it in the past!

Saturn dpad is still undefeated though.

Yup love the hell out of my USB Saturn pad. Just can't capture that magic feeling again for a fighting game on current consoles. Although Soul Blade sessions on an old beat up PSOne with the digital pads sends me flying through time and space too.

[EatChildren]

It was all Vooks fault.

Everybody knows that.

[Fredescu]

In this case, "supporting the practices" is "buying the games". The suggestion that people should entirely quit their favourite type of game because of some minor annoyances is ridiculous in the extreme.

Your use of the word "perceived" problem is odd though.

DLC isn't an inherent "problem". Every console has had major hardware problems this gen (except maybe the PSP?). Even unpatchable software can be buggy, and it's way more annoying when it is, like when you can brick entire DS carts for naming your save file the wrong thing.

[Box of Bunnies]

Failings with the Wii's software lineup are on the third party developers/publishers as much as they are with Nintendo. Resident Evil 4 sold over a million copies despite having already been released on three other platforms in the preceding couple of years and rather than following that up with some kind of Resident Evil 4-2 or whatever, some new adventure built off RE4, Capcom pumped out a couple of lightgun games.

There was a market there, people just failed to build on it.

[reptilescorpio]

PSP had ghosting and dead pixel issues that required several iterations to fix. Not as bad as the consoles problems though.

Plus NO GAEMS!

[Fredescu]

Dead pixel issues outside of what's normal for any LCD screen? I didn't own one until after the Vita was out so I don't know.

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Failings with the Wii's software lineup are on the third party developers/publishers as much as they are with Nintendo. Resident Evil 4 sold over a million copies despite having already been released on three other platforms in the preceding couple of years and rather than following that up with some kind of Resident Evil 4-2 or whatever, some new adventure built off RE4, Capcom pumped out a couple of lightgun games. There was a market there, people just failed to build on it.

Yep. Nintendo simply aren't prolific enough to carry a console on their own, so when third parties didn't come to the table with the content people wanted, those people moved on.

[hamchan]

Failings with the Wii's software lineup are on the third party developers/publishers as much as they are with Nintendo. Resident Evil 4 sold over a million copies despite having already been released on three other platforms in the preceding couple of years and rather than following that up with some kind of Resident Evil 4-2 or whatever, some new adventure built off RE4, Capcom pumped out a couple of lightgun games. There was a market there, people just failed to build on it.

It's everyone's fault but as the company running the thing it all ultimately falls on Nintendo.

At least they appear to be trying real hard with the Wii U in regards to the hardcore gamer, I'll give them that.

[Yagharek]

In this case, "supporting the practices" is "buying the games". The suggestion that people should entirely quit their favourite type of game because of some minor annoyances is ridiculous in the extreme.

There are plenty of alternatives to games that have the worst practices going for them. That doesnt seem to have stopped them selling successors to the horse armour scheme though. Not to say bethesda are the worst at dlc - they actually did some great packs that are on par with GTA4 add ons. I'm talking more about EA golf course unlocks and fifa ultimate team stuff, namco are another serial offender in this case.

Aside from map packs, Activision have actually been really good this gen. Even if you dont like the games, at least CoD is free to play, 60fps, supported by a community for years and never has an online pass. EA's MoH/BF games are the polar opposite of this and still sell for some baffling reason.

DLC isn't an inherent "problem". Every console has had major hardware problems this gen (except maybe the PSP?). Even unpatchable software can be buggy, and it's way more annoying when it is.

Every console has had problems, but none of the scale of RROD which was exceeding 30% rates in the first 3 years. YLOD was a longer fuse but not much better. Wii didnt exceed normal target rates of 5%.

Patching methods are essential - granted. But some games are inherently unpatchable even with the mechanism to do so. Fallout 3 on ps3 proves this. Even the goty edition was fundamentally broken, unlike the 360/pc versions which in the latter case could at least be fixed by the community kind of like vampire the masquerade was.

[Fredescu]

Failings with the Wii's software lineup are on the third party developers/publishers as much as they are with Nintendo.

Don't think I agree with "as much". It really is Nintendo's responsibility to court third parties and provide them with good tools and arrangements and by all accounts they're very bad at this.

[Omi]

I always get the feeling with Vince's post is that Bethesda (+others) burnt him hard one day and he has never forgiven them.

Fair enough if true I guess. But I am pretty sure we have been over this ground so many times.

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Dead pixel issues outside of what's normal for any LCD screen? I didn't own one until after the Vita was out so I don't know.

It wasn't so much the dead pixel frequency that made everyone mad, but Sony's obtuse policy toward fixing the problem. Their position at first was that if you had less than (I think) three dead pixels, your unit was not defective and could not be exchanged after purchase.

If they had just done right by their customers in the first place, everyone would have forgotten the issue by now.

[evlcookie]

Don't think I agree with "as much". It really is Nintendo's responsibility to court third parties and provide them with good tools and arrangements and by all accounts they're very bad at this.

And they used to be so good back in the nes/snes days. Hell that's all I played on Nintendo systems back then. Never cared for Zelda or metroid.

The lack of power in the system is why I feel like they won't get the third party support. If the ps4 and 720 are that much more powerful what company wants to spend time and money on downgrading a game. Unless your ea or activision, no one.

[Fredescu]

I'm talking more about EA course unlocks and fifa ultimate team stuff.

What "ultimate team stuff"?

Every console has had problems, but none of the scale of RROD which was exceeding 30% rates in the first 3 years. YLOD was a longer fuse but not much better. Wii didnt exceed normal target rates of 5%.

RROD is obviously the low hanging fruit. What are the numbers on YLOD? I doubt they approached RROD numbers. A lot of launch Wii's had the faulty GPU problem, which they rectified quickly enough in subsequent revisions. The fact that the Wii sold so many in the early years helps the percentage look a lot better.

Fallout 3 on ps3 proves this.

Traditional gamers fault again?

[viciouskillersquirrel]

And they used to be so good back in the nes/snes days. Hell that's all I played on Nintendo systems back then. Never cared for Zelda or metroid.

That's sarcasm, right? They abused their virtual monopoly power back in the day, which is what made it so easy for all those publishers to jump ship when Sony came along promising more freedom, lower licensing fees and ponies for everyone.

[Yagharek]

Don't think I agree with "as much". It really is Nintendo's responsibility to court third parties and provide them with good tools and arrangements and by all accounts they're very bad at this.

I wonder how much of it is a case of third parties betting the bank on HD assets and dumping all their old engine licenses? Wii could have kept the old renderware ecosystem going, but obviously that ship had long since sailed so even convenient ports were probably unviable by 2008/9.

I always get the feeling with Vince's post is that Bethesda (+others) burnt him hard one day and he has never forgiven them. Fair enough if true I guess. But I am pretty sure we have been over this ground so many times.

Bethesda are just a convenient example for lots of good and bad trends. I'll give them credit for mod-tool support, large content add ons, and large games to begin with.
I dislike them due to buggy ports and QA, for horse armour (they started the trend but didnt continue it at least), and for deception/manipulation of the review process.

They didnt burn me badly; both times I bought their games I got full refunds in short order. But I genuinely havent been less impressed with any other game than oblivion/fo3 (ps3) since the old EA games on ps1 like lost world and nfs2.

[Fredescu]

And they used to be so good back in the nes/snes days.

I thought they were worse at it then. It was just sheer numbers that got them a lot of support.

[markot]

What I hope is that Nintendo says 'Screw you third parties!' and just builds like 20 more studios to pump out all the pflumf crap people want.

[Box of Bunnies]

It really is Nintendo's responsibility to court third parties and provide them with good tools and arrangements and by all accounts they're very bad at this.

Certainly, but examples like Capcom's handling of Resident Evil just completely baffle me. I mean sure, making a lightgun spinoff makes sense, the system was good at them and I own a few of them for it mysef. But how can you sell nearly two million copies of a game that had already sold three and a half million elsewhere and not properly follow up on that?

[Fredescu]

Everything Capcom does is baffling.

[Choc]

Aside from map packs, Activision have actually been really good this gen. Even if you dont like the games, at least CoD is free to play, 60fps, supported by a community for years and never has an online pass. EA's MoH/BF games are the polar opposite of this and still sell for some baffling reason. .

just wait and see what this year brings

[Yagharek]

What "ultimate team stuff"? RROD is obviously the low hanging fruit. What are the numbers on YLOD? I doubt they approached RROD numbers. A lot of launch Wii's had the faulty GPU problem, which they rectified quickly enough in subsequent revisions. The fact that the Wii sold so many in the early years helps the percentage look a lot better.

Ultimate team was the carrot that enabled/encouraged all the xbl hacks a few months back.

No idea on hard ylod numbers, but anecdotally every one of my mates who has a ps3 original build has had one, myself included. Same as every 360 owner I know has had rrods. The only difference is ps3s usually failed after an extra year or two on 360s.

Traditional gamers fault again?

I really dont know how you got that out of my last post. FO3 was inherently unpatchable on ps3 either due to the way it was coded or the ps3 architecture.

I'm not blaming traditional gamers for Fo3 on ps3 - I blame bethesda (or sony) for that. But I do blame the "traditional gamer" ecosystem of publisher -> review outlet hype (esp kotaku types dancing with hyped games) -> traditional gamer credulity for enabling this kind of incident to continue. Skyrim showed that no lessons were learnt whatsoever.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me etc etc

[hamchan]

just wait and see what this year brings

Oh ho, do you know something?

[Yagharek]

What I hope is that Nintendo says 'Screw you third parties!' and just builds like 20 more studios to pump out all the pflumf crap people want.

Wat?

just wait and see what this year brings

Wednesdayton.

[reptilescorpio]

All my friends 360s have died. None of my friends PS3s have died. Anecdotal but seems like the YLOD has been less than the RROD. One factor could be that the PS3 didn't start selling high numbers until a few revisions and price drops which lessened the burned.

[Fredescu]

Ultimate team was the carrot that enabled/encouraged all the xbl hacks a few months back.

By giving packs away and being useful and valuable. I don't think it's fair to blame EA for that. Wasn't it only XBL accounts getting hacked anyway? Ultimate team is on at least three systems.

No idea on hard ylod numbers, but anecdotally

So it's a bit much to say "not much better" than RROD, right? It could be "not much worse" than Wii GPU issues.

[EatChildren]

Nintendo's arm can only stretch so far. They're responsible for some of the third party failings of the Wii (and others), but not the whole situation. The onus is on third parties to make use of an existing market. It was there, they ignored it, and it died.

I don't really give a shit about third party ports on the Wii U, unless they're console exclusive games. I'm only really interested in exclusives and unique titles. If Nintendo's presser is bloated with multi-platform ports I'm going to be bummed.

[Choc]

two 360s and a ps3 have gone on me

[markot]

Wat? Wednesdayton.

flumpf - rubbish / superficial: They want some- some, sort of - flumpf telly, that they don't have to think about.

[Yagharek]

By giving packs away and being useful and valuable. I don't think it's fair to blame EA for that. Wasn't it only XBL accounts getting hacked anyway? Ultimate team is on at least three systems.

Some people were hacked on ps3 I think, but trivial numbers compared to 360 for sure. But I guess that detracts from what I was originaly ranting about which was their DLC ecosystem where especially in tiger woods games you need to spend spacebucks to get the most out of it.

So it's a bit much to say "not much better" than RROD, right? It could be "not much worse" than Wii GPU issues.

The relative size of the GAF "my <insert system name> broke and I <status of living> to tell the story" threads indicates otherwise.

Also, all accounts on the level of customer service seem to paint sony in a less than favourable light compared to the other two.

[Choc]

i doubt microsoft will take a rrod risk again

it cost them 3 billion dollars

[Omi]

My PC is still going strong after 4 years. Best platform confirmed.

[Fredescu]

Also, all accounts on the level of customer service seem to paint sony in a less than favourable light compared to the other two.

That's probably true. I still dislike the fact that I have to send Nintendo hardware interstate at my expense to have it fixed. At least Microsoft sent me a connote and it was local to me. I've never had to deal with Sony. LG were awesome fwiw.

[reptilescorpio]

I remember sending my ps2 away for free repair with a supplied postage thing when I dropped it and the dude I called up felt sorry for me. I was probably crying though since I was halfway through Final Fantasy X.

[markot]

I remember sending my ps2 away for free repair with a supplied postage thing when I dropped it and the dude I called up felt sorry for me. I was probably crying though since I was halfway through Final Fantasy X.

Yeah, it was a pretty awful game.

[Omi]

My wife loves that game. I just snort and turn my nose up mumbling about FF7.

[evlcookie]

That's sarcasm, right? They abused their virtual monopoly power back in the day, which is what made it so easy for all those publishers to jump ship when Sony came along promising more freedom, lower licensing fees and ponies for everyone.

No, Why would it be? It worked for them back in the day and made them, to me, the number 1 console to own. These days they don't mean much at all.

If they had the 3rd party support, no matter how they went about it, why does it matter?

Everyone is throwing around money now for exclusivity so it's certainly nothing new.

[reptilescorpio]

My wife loves that game. I just snort and turn my nose up mumbling about FF7.

Heh, I love both games for different reasons thankfully. Blitzball ate up soooooooooo many of my hours!

[Box of Bunnies]

VII's not even the best PS1 FF.

[FallbackPants]

All my friends 360s have died. None of my friends PS3s have died. Anecdotal but seems like the YLOD has been less than the RROD. One factor could be that the PS3 didn't start selling high numbers until a few revisions and price drops which lessened the burned.

You know I don't think I've had a single friend lose their 360. Mine's gone twice (I had it fixed by Microsoft once and a random dude the second time when it was out of warranty) but off the top of my head I've never had a mate tell me their's has gone. That can't be normal. None of my friend's PS3s have gone either

[Clipper]

That's probably true. I still dislike the fact that I have to send Nintendo hardware interstate at my expense to have it fixed. At least Microsoft sent me a connote and it was local to me. I've never had to deal with Sony. LG were awesome fwiw.

I had to send my 3DS internationally at my expense to get it fixed (which is fair enough because I knew the risks of importation)... and they cancelled my Club Nintendo account too because I asked whether it was possible to ship it back to an Aussie address instead of the US one!

Incidentally though, the US service has an option where they give you the label to print and put on the box, making shipping both ways free. I'm surprised NAL doesn't do that.

[Choc]

so laura from gamespot is hosting gamespot live

aussies ftw

[Omi]

Hi.

[evlcookie]

The mug sums up how I feel about that picture.