[ElzarTheBam]

Thanks for the games, whoever i played with. Elzar, ZalinKrow, can't remember who else. Maybe we should play Halo 3 someday. EDIT i just remembered, i need some Halo Wars achievements (Legendary, Co-op ones, some MP ones too probably), anyone want to play someday?

Hahaha omg, Robbert is gonna be pissed! :P

Anyway good game's EMP, been a long time since we last met.

[heckfu]

Well, they tell you one thing.

Big fat fatties!

[Woorloog]

Hahaha omg, Robbert is gonna be pissed! :P Anyway good game EMP, been a long time since we last met.

Why would he? Oh, wait, i betrayed him didn't i?

As for long hiatues... well, i need to keep long breaks or i burn out (EDIT and i think i didn't have Gold for a couple months last autumn). And then there's BF3 and Halo CEA and Skyrim... Next, Mass Effect 3...

[bobs...onGaf]

Yeah, I think our terminology may be causing some confusion. When I use the term "rank" or "ranked", I'm using it in the sense of a competition, a ladder, in which everyone finds their place through their performance. This could be confused with the military-style labels that were used in Halo 3 and Reach, because in reality, many of these labels are actual military ranks. When I say the incentive system, I mean at the very least, what a player sees as a representation of their state, what kind of change takes place, and how the player reacts to those changes. In Halo 2, the only representation the player had was a number, specific to each playlist. Every player wanted to see that number increase, so they would search in these playlists and try to win. If a player saw the number go down, he might have been discouraged from playing that list. This is not a desired behavior. You want to stroke the player for playing in ranked playlists regardless of their progression on the ladder so they continue to stoke the population for the betterment of matchmaking. We should do this by rewarding them both for participation and for winning.

I think we are nearly in agreement! I would argue that a more competitive environment dictates that there has to be losers and winners. A softening blow can be dealt by the incentive system, but the skill system needs to reward winning and punish losing. Otherwise a lot of the tension of a ranked match would be lost.

In social Halo like most Reach playlists, I have no reason to win/ lose so I spend most of my games in a weird 'cant be bothered' zone. Thats not a bad thing! When I just want to relax, the last thing I want is for Halo to punish me, but when I am in the mood for competition, its ranked play that provides the most fun, because something is on the line. I am going to step up my game, and I would hope the opponent is.

If the incentive system exists, and paid well for participating in ranked matchmaking, people would still have reason to play, even if they lost. The super competitive wouldnt really care about the incentive system though, and its the rank system they would care about. I think that would be a very good balancing act, and I think thats what Bungie had in mind for Reach.

[ElzarTheBam]

Why would he? Oh, wait, i betrayed him didn't i? As for long hiatues... well, i need to keep long breaks or i burn out (EDIT and i think i didn't have Gold for a couple months last autumn). And then there's BF3 and Halo CEA and Skyrim... Next, Mass Effect 3...

I think you betrayed Xand, Don't worry about it, Robbert is just a drama queen anyway. :P

[HiredN00bs]

My problem with time based ranks is they tell me nothing about the kind of player I'm going against.

It tells you how much time they've played, which can be informative. K/D is more reliable in determining the skill, but even that can be misleading (looks at Tashi's K/D... 1.26). Arena ranks would be reliable, but people don't play it. The fix is get people to play ranked lists and stay in them. The Arena suffers because it does not give enough immediate feedback (i.e. ranking up after a few wins from n to n+1, and so on) to get players into it and it suffers from the fact that once players achieve a desired goal they're not motivated to continue playing in that list.

[Devolution]

It tells you how much time they've played, which can be informative. K/D is more reliable in determining the skill, but even that can be misleading (looks at Tashi's K/D... 1.26). Arena ranks would be reliable, but people don't play it. The fix is get people to play ranked lists and stay in them. The Arena suffers because it does not give enough immediate feedback (i.e. ranking up after a few wins from n to n+1, and so on) to get players into it.

It's not informative in the least bit because it doesn't even tell me what they played. Ever been with firefight farming inheritors? Yeah they sure know maps and how to play worth a damn.

[Woorloog]

I think you betrayed Xand, Don't worry about it, Robbert is just a drama queen anyway. :P

I don't worry. If he'd complain at me in voice chat, he'd get zero reaction from me. As you well know, i barely say anything while playing.

As for betrayals... It occured to me that i've probably betrayed every HaloGAFer i've played with at least once. Accidentally of course.

[Computron]

Introducing the GAF-rating! Everyone is terrible.

[HiredN00bs]

It's not informative in the least bit because it doesn't even tell me what they played. Ever been with firefight farming inheritors? Yeah they sure know maps and how to play worth a damn.

I don't get the feeling that there are a whole lot of those, but you make a valid point. The incentive system in Reach crossing the different modes diminishes our ability to infer from that little emblem. Now that I think about it, I don't really take much notice of the cR emblems of random players in Reach unless they're at one extreme or the other.

[Devolution]

I don't get the feeling that there are a whole lot of those, but you make a valid point. The incentive system in Reach crossing the different modes diminishes our ability to infer from that little emblem. Now that I think about it, I don't really take much notice of the cR emblems of random players in Reach unless they're at one extreme or the other.

Well obviously I was exaggerating to make a point but if the rank can be built up from SP and non-competitive multiplayer then it really says nothing about what kind of players I'm matching with all the more.

[ActiveRush]

I think this is the first time I'm actually more excited to to play the regular game then the MLG version. Every time I go over to their forums their always complaining about this and that. Just wait for the game to come out and we will always have options. This is not to say I don't like MLG anymore I still do.

[Ken]

This thread moves fast lol.

[Sai-kun]

Oops, forgot to post in this topic.

[GhaleonEB]

This thread moves fast lol.

Where did the other eight go?

[Woorloog]

This thread moves fast lol.

Over 800 posts over 22 hours, is that HaloGAF record?

EDIT HaloGAF is the most active NeoGAF community right?

[CyReN]

I think this is the first time I'm actually more excited to to play the regular game then the MLG version. Every time I go over to their forums their always complaining about this and that. Just wait for the game to come out and we will always have options. This is not to say I don't like MLG anymore I still do.

When going over there I'd check out the Official Halo Reach/4 thread, they do have some decent discussion about stuff, there is a lot of shit though in other parts. I think the problem too with some MLG players is they are taking the "competitive players in mind" comment from the new vidoc to heart thinking it's just them. MLG is a very small population compared to the overall numbers for Halo players. Didn't like some players and pros bitching about sprint personally.

[Ken]

Where did the other eight go?

?

[JonCha]

When going over there I'd check out the Official Halo Reach/4 thread, they do have some decent discussion about stuff, there is a lot of shit though in other parts though. I think the problem too with some MLG players is they are taking the "competitive players" comment from the new vidoc to heart thinking it's just them. MLG is a very small population compared to the overall numbers for Reach players. Didn't like some players and pros bitching about sprint personally.

Unfortunately, some want Halo 2 over and over again and that's it. We may have a lot of elements brought over from H2, but it won't be Halo 2.

And Sprint is fine as long as it's balanced, like anything really.

Incidentally, why does almost every playlist in Reach have the note 'Title updated' though bloom is still included? I thought bloom was part of the Title Update ( though I do like Super Slayer).

[Woorloog]

Incidentally, why does almost every playlist in Reach have the note 'Title updated' not bloom is still included? I thought bloom was part of the Title Update, though I do like Super Slayer.

Only ZB Slayer is bloomless. Otherwise it is 85% for TUd lists.

Speaking of Halo 2, we need remake of Earth City for Halo 4.

[Sai-kun]

?

100ppp :)

[CyReN]

Unfortunately, some want Halo 2 over and over again and that's it. We may have a lot of elements brought over from H2, but it won't be Halo 2. And Sprint is fine as long as it's balanced, like anything really.

Honestly most Halo 2 players don't compete anymore, they just want Halo 3 again hence them getting The Pit. I do like the idea of sprint in general, I think bloom played a big part of why sprint was hated because you couldn't finish of the person with it being random.

[Ken]

100ppp :)

Oh, hmm...

[Zeouterlimits]

...

[Slightly Live]

...

You are still in the chatroom? LOL!

[Sai-kun]

oh shit there's still a halogaf irc?

gimme deets

[Slightly Live]

oh shit there's still a halogaf irc? gimme deets

http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/halo-4-reveal-chatroom/

[Demoncarnotaur]

I agree the matchmaking ranking system needs as massive overhaul with Halo 4. Halo 2, 3 and Reach have all had their good sides and bad sides, but I feel 343 can utilize the best from each game while introducing something new. As others have suggested, mixing both ranked numbers with arena style status indicators may be the way to go, while still allowing a cR based ranking alongside the evident skill based system. The best of both worlds would probably keep people playing, theoretically, for skill based rank and cR based rank.

Speaking of cR, if it returns, which I imagine it will, it needs to be more relevant, giving you more options to spend on. Basically, expand the armory to include more customization options, such as starting gun skins(?), armor texture and other strictly visual options. With Reach, most people ran out of things to buy fairly quickly, and there wasn't a constant reward from the cR. Also, I hope not all armor pieces are cR based, and that some have to be earned from doing things such as achievements, skulls, etc as it was in Halo 3. I honestly had a lot more fun unlocking armor than buying it, so I hope they find a way to merge both systems into the game.

[Tashi]

How big of a deal was boosting to you guys in Halo 3?

[Computron]

[CyReN]

How big of a deal was boosting to you guys in Halo 3?

I didn't see it too much, the only thing I had a problem is with selling 50's if that's even under the same category.

[Zeouterlimits]

How big of a deal was boosting to you guys in Halo 3?

*shrugs* It was quite frustrating.

Just want people to remember, we bitched a lot about the ranking system in H3 back then.
The arbitrary win 6 matches, don't go up, lose 1 match and go down a level, etc.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/srbAV.jpg[IMG] [IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibbIeklaucE3nD.png[IMG]

24? That's depressing. So many hours spent there. So many.

[Woorloog]

*shrugs* It was quite frustrating. Just want people to remember, we bitched a lot about the ranking system in H3 back then. The arbitrary win 6 matches, don't go up, lose 1 match and go down a level, etc.

Don't remind me... Especially in Lone Wolves. 40-45 (the rank where i stuck) was difficult enough, with this... urgh.

[Plywood]

Decided to do a side-by-side comparison of Chief and the Spartan IV's.




Also Barrow Roll, I didn't see any other helmets mang.

[Devolution]

Cross posting from the Halo 4 thread but this is how I feel.

Credit should still be in there as a way to accumulate visual perks on your armor. There should never be a system in place where you can only get stuff through competitive rank. That being said credits should not effect rank in order for rank to actually mean something.

To me, honestly, I would prefer different ranks in different playlists again. People who farm or boost are just gonna do that but honestly the matchmaking was that much better for the majority of players. You hit a certain number, plateau but your games are much more competitive and opponents are much more similar across the board.

[bobs...onGaf]

How big of a deal was boosting to you guys in Halo 3?

Didn't affect me much. It did give me some slightly easier matches at the higher ends of some playlists. :P

I would imagine it gave some people harder matches at the lower ends of matchmaking (which sucks) and to be fair it did suck when you lost to people who were apparently 'lower' to you, despite certainly being on par or better. Hopefully matchmaking will be 'smarter' in terms of the ranking system next time round though. The Halo 4 model doesnt need to work in the exact same way so hopefully can be implimented in a way which negates most of the effects of boosting.

[Steelyuhas]

Nice to see the update go out. The majority of the maps submitted seem to have made it in for Heavies, so there's a mix of new FW maps and variants of DLC and disc maps. I think at least one person from all the communities got a map in.

Just new maps in Big Team?

Just entered BTB, I assume the DLC required is already fixed because I've entered two games and no DLC.

Also, it appears that Heavies is just Slayer, and it appears in the second slot of voting, so that makes first slot of voting always Slayer and second slot of voting always Slayer. 343 undoing Jeremiah's work/completely removing objective gametypes from MM one update at a time.

[FyreWulff]

Just new maps in Big Team? Just entered BTB, I assume the DLC required is already fixed because I've entered two games and no DLC. Also, it appears that Heavies is just Slayer, and it appears in the second slot of voting, so that makes first slot of voting always Slayer and second slot of voting always Slayer. 343 undoing Jeremiah's work/completely removing objective gametypes from MM one update at a time.

Unfortunate. Yes, Heavies is Slayer only for right now. My map (Cragmire) doesn't even support any Objectives mode, because I didn't want to waste precious Forgin' time setting up the other modes. The plan here, I think, is that like how Classic and Premium started out Slayer only, it's Slayer-centric first to get the maximum potential population and data, then objectives Heavy will come in later depending on how Heavies is received.

The only new maps are for Heavies, although the majority of Living Dead maps got updated, a couple have significant overhauls. Current focus is Team Slayer and Invasion.

[op_ivy]

Decided to do a side-by-side comparison of Chief and the Spartan IV's. Also Barrow Roll, I didn't see any other helmets mang.

nice job, didnt realize just how similar the 2 are

[orznge]

the Spartan IVs look so cool

[Steelyuhas]

Unfortunate. Yes, Heavies is Slayer only for right now. My map (Cragmire) doesn't even support any Objectives mode, because I didn't want to waste precious Forgin' time setting up the other modes. The plan here, I think, is that like how Classic and Premium started out Slayer only, it's Slayer-centric first to get the maximum potential population and data, then objectives Heavy will come in later depending on how Heavies is received. The only new maps are for Heavies, although the majority of Living Dead maps got updated, a couple have significant overhauls. Current focus is Team Slayer and Invasion.

Alright thanks.

The first one I played is actually one of the better forge BTB maps I've played (Delta Facility), but the second was horrid (Asphalt).

What is 343 requesting for Invasion?

Also, playing to 200 is a bit much IMO.

[Plywood]

nice job, didnt realize just how similar the 2 are

I just swapped out the pic you quoted for one with a sharpen filter since it was kinda blurry.

[Zeouterlimits]

I just swapped out the pic you quoted for one with a sharpen filter since it was kinda blurry.

Wow, that made a huge difference.

Can't say I'm a fan of SIVs, but it's probably illogical.

[Demoncarnotaur]

Decided to do a side-by-side comparison of Chief and the Spartan IV's. Also Barrow Roll, I didn't see any other helmets mang.

I just realized something, the Spartan IV doesn't have the white stripes seen in the other bits of MP footage, I wonder if that is the way the will appear in SP when they inevitably show up. MP pic for comparison-

[GhaleonEB]

Alright thanks. The first one I played is actually one of the better forge BTB maps I've played (Delta Facility), but the second was horrid (Asphalt). What is 343 requesting for Invasion? Also, playing to 200 is a bit much IMO.

Heavies has a special bonus point added for certain kill types, which makes getting to 200 a bit faster (while still making it a longer game than normal BTB Slayer). From the Bulletin:

This game type has a score limit of 200 with bonus points awarded for headshots, beat downs, assassinations, splatters, and sticks.

FWIW, I think this is exactly the kind of thing 343 should NOT be doing with Reach, because the game has no way to message these rules to players. They gun b confused. If (ohpleaseohplease) Halo 4 has a way for players to check the rules before and during the game, then these are the kinds of rules I'd love to see incorporated.

[Ryaaan14]

I will definitely be hitting up Halo 3 later for whoever wants to join. Will probably be getting on around midnight EST. GT is the same as my username.

I just realized something, the Spartan IV doesn't have the white stripes seen in the other bits of MP footage, I wonder if that is the way the will appear in SP when they inevitably show up. MP pic for comparison-

Would be VERY interesting if you are actually able to select from some paint themes for your armor in MP. Wishful thinking, but awesome to think about.

[Steelyuhas]

Heavies has a special bonus point added for certain kill types, which makes getting to 200 a bit faster (while still making it a longer game than normal BTB Slayer). From the Bulletin: This game type has a score limit of 200 with bonus points awarded for headshots, beat downs, assassinations, splatters, and sticks. FWIW, I think this is exactly the kind of thing 343 should NOT be doing with Reach, because the game has no way to message these rules to players. They gun b confused. If (ohpleaseohplease) Halo 4 has a way for players to check the rules before and during the game, then these are the kinds of rules I'd love to see incorporated.

Oh wow, didn't know that.

[Woorloog]

Decided to do a side-by-side comparison of Chief and the Spartan IV's. [IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibg3QXLYClAsuT.jpg[IMG] Also Barrow Roll, I didn't see any other helmets mang.

I really hoped 343i would give Halo a new direction in Halo 4. The said they would but i was sceptical, not really believing that.
Watching these... They really did it. This new Mjolnir has different feel to it. It looks agile, dangerous, not so tank-like as Bungie's Mjolnir Mark VI. This is still recognizably Mjolnir.
Yet i cannot but feel a sense of loss... Odd that. Never thought i'd grow so attached.

I noticed that Halo 4's style is more futuristic, at least seems to be, from what little we've seen. Pretty much every weapon and car and house and whatever from previous Halos could have been made today. Look at BR55 HBSR from Halo 3. And then look at Halo 4 BR.

[HigherLevel]

The Spartan IVs look sick. I'm glad they look nothing like the terrible Spartans in Reach.

[Rickenslacker]

The Spartan IVs look sick. I'm glad they look nothing like the terrible Spartans in Reach.

True that. Other than the helmet, I think the IVs look even better than the Chief!

This new Mjolnir has different feel to it. It looks agile, dangerous, not so tank-like as Bungie's Mjolnir Mark VI. This is still recognizably Mjolnir. Yet i cannot but feel a sense of loss... Odd that. Never thought i'd grow so attached.

People keep saying this but I just don't see it. If anything this new stuff ends up looking more tank-like, VI was pretty thin, hell it looks like BMX gear. This new armour is a lot thicker looking, especially the chest.