[Foxy Fox 39]

Just gonna post this again. It would be nice if Realink, Kharv, Zoe ( -_-) and the other dude read it. Don't know how many more people are saying odd things in this thread, but I always enjoy Tims thoughts.


http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayv...ss-in-america/

[Imm0rt4l]

I'm sure they'll arrest him when they have a solid case. It seems pretty clear that both parties were scared of the situation that Zimmerman's paranoia created. If a struggle ensued and Martin got the upper hand and was then using unnecessary force to fend off his assailant... then what? Yes it's terrible that a paranoid coward was able to kill an innocent kid over a misunderstanding created by his own paranoia but if Martin became an actual threat to Zimmerman's life at some point then there might not be enough of a case. Zimmerman is a nut but I doubt he was looking for a way to kill a young black kid without reprisal from the law. He was being a paranoid idiot, and probably due to race confronted a kid he hadn't seen before, shit got really fucked up, and now Trayvon Martin is dead.

No, there would still most definitely be a case

[Cuban Legend]

I'm sure they'll arrest him when they have a solid case. It seems pretty clear that both parties were scared of the situation that Zimmerman's paranoia created. If a struggle ensued and Martin got the upper hand and was then using unnecessary force to fend off his assailant... then what? Yes it's terrible that a paranoid coward was able to kill an innocent kid over a misunderstanding created by his own paranoia but if Martin became an actual threat to Zimmerman's life at some point then there might not be enough of a case. Zimmerman is a nut but I doubt he was looking for a way to kill a young black kid without reprisal from the law. He was being a paranoid idiot, and probably due to race confronted a kid he hadn't seen before, shit got really fucked up, and now Trayvon Martin is dead.

Get the fuck outta here with that, bro...

The motherfucker ignored 911 dispachers telling him to not continue in pursuit. And by the way he sounded in the tape he was distraught from calling 911 many times over the last year and from the string of "supposed" robberies in his neighborhood.

It's safe to assume Zimmermean probably thought the kid was scoping out houses to rob... only he ended up becoming judge, jury, and executioner for him in some sort of misunderstood confrontation. Edit: BTW. Doesn't matter if Zimmerman isn't "White", I know plenty of racist hispanics that live in my area of South Florida who could easily pass as the stereotypical 'racist honky' everyone is familiar with.

[effzee]

lebron, wade and rest of the heat players showing their support: short article here: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...on-martin-case

That is fucking awesome!

[Ghost_Protocol]

That's straight bullshit. I've heard from people that because I wear a baseball cap I look like a gangster/thug. The problem is black men are automatically assumed to be up to no good in this country. It's been that way for decades. He could have been wearing khaki's and a polo, and Zimmerman would have still assumed he was up to no good.

Yup, can't wear backwards hats, loose- fitting clothing, black beanies, and now hoodies. It's bullshit. I've even heard people say that wearing a goddamn school bag after dark looks suspicious.

[Yoritomo]

If you are robbing someone and they pulled out a gun and you shot back is not self defense.

You can't start a fight and then claim self defense.

Then it's about who escalated the altercation that led to an eventual physical struggle. All signs point to Zimmerman based on his history of being a paranoid nutjob.

[Zoe]

Just gonna post this again. It would be nice if Realink, Kharv, Zoe ( -_-) and the other dude read it. Don't know how many more people are saying odd things in this thread, but I always enjoy Tims thoughts. http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayv...ss-in-america/

I stand by my stance that race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious.

[GhettoGamer]

lebron, wade and rest of the heat players showing their support:



short article here:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...on-martin-caseLook at those thugs /sarcasm

[CrazyDogg77]

I stand by my stance that race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious.

But it did here. Sorry but it did.

[aquavelva]

Yup, can't wear backwards hats, loose- fitting clothing, black beanies, and now hoodies. It's bullshit. I've even heard people say that wearing a goddamn school bag after dark looks suspicious.

Exactly. I can wear the same clothing that the average white male in his 20s is wearing, but the fact that I'm outside when the street lights come on, most assume I'm a threat. I can't even tell you the number of times I've walked from my job to my car in business casual attire and have white women (and sometimes even white men) cross the streets, grab their purses, and look back to make sure I'm not planning an attempted rape/murder/robbery or whatever bigoted viewpoint they can come up with.

[Combine]

I read somewhere that Zimmerman was expelled from school "for his own safety".

EDIT: Found the actual quote:

“Due to the highly charged and high-profile controversy involving this student, Seminole State has taken the unusual but necessary step this week to withdraw Mr. Zimmerman from enrollment. [...] This decision is based solely on our responsibility to provide for the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman.”

[shuri]

Well..

When I walk alone at night during the summer, coming back from some place or whatever, I usually put my hoodie on; simply because it looks more threatening and I don't want to be fucked with by the random idiots that live in my area.

I'm not kidding.

People simply find hoodies more 'threatening' because they help to conseal the face and hide it using shadows and whats not.

[Zoe]

But it did here. Sorry but it did.

That wasn't what I was arguing.

[Yoritomo]

No, there would still most definitely be a case

Zimmerman stops and begins to talk with Martin. Martin attacks Zimmerman without provocation. He gains the upper hand and begins slamming Zimmerman's head against the concrete while on top of him. Zimmerman pulls gun and shoots Martin while this is happening.

This is most likely NOT what happened but if there is no evidence to preclude this series of events and Zimmerman sticks to his "guns" as it were, and no evidence can cast a different light on the situation then Zimmerman walks. Even without stand your ground, if he had no means to retreat and his life was in danger then he pulls the trigger, martin dies, and here we are.

[Foxy Fox 39]

I read somewhere that Zimmerman was expelled from school "for his own safety". EDIT: Found the actual quote:

from?

[Zoe]

Zimmerman stops and begins to talk with Martin. Martin attacks Zimmerman without provocation. He gains the upper hand and begins slamming Zimmerman's head against the concrete while on top of him. Zimmerman pulls gun and shoots Martin while this is happening. This is most likely NOT what happened but if there is no evidence to preclude this series of events and Zimmerman sticks to his "guns" as it were, and no evidence can cast a different light on the situation then Zimmerman walks. Even without stand your ground, if he had no means to retreat and his life was in danger then he pulls the trigger, martin dies, and here we are.

The defense is definitely going to try to create reasonable doubt by running scenarios like that.

[Combine]

from?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ml?ref=college

[soundscream]

Well.. When I walk alone at night during the summer, coming back from some place or whatever, I usually put my hoodie on; simply because it looks more threatening and I don't want to be fucked with by the random idiots that live in my area. I'm not kidding. People simply find hoodies more 'threatening' because they help to conseal the face and hide it using shadows and whats not.

[Combine]

The defense is definitely going to try to create reasonable doubt by running scenarios like that.

Indeed. It's all going to come down on whatever "reasonable doubt" scenario will be most convincing to a jury.

[Dreams-Visions]

I stand by my stance that race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious.

But it did here. Sorry but it did.

That wasn't what I was arguing.

then what's the point of talking about it in THIS thread?

Sure, as a general concept, race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious. It often IS, but it's certainly not an absolute, 100% of the time, no exceptions truth of some sort such that if you're xxx skin tone you won't be considered suspicious no matter how strange you look or are behaving. But for BLACK folk...often times skin our color causes people to subconsciously default to a state of tension/anxiety/worry/fear.

But in this thread, we're talking about a SPECIFIC circumstance where that tension/anxiety/worry/fear appears to have crept up on and gotten the better of one, Mr. Zimmerman.

Arguing macro concepts in a thread very much about a specific incident is...kinda unnecessary, no?

[soundscream]

Zimmerman stops and begins to talk with Martin. Martin attacks Zimmerman without provocation. He gains the upper hand and begins slamming Zimmerman's head against the concrete while on top of him. Zimmerman pulls gun and shoots Martin while this is happening. This is most likely NOT what happened but if there is no evidence to preclude this series of events and Zimmerman sticks to his "guns" as it were, and no evidence can cast a different light on the situation then Zimmerman walks. Even without stand your ground, if he had no means to retreat and his life was in danger then he pulls the trigger, martin dies, and here we are.

Except there is the 911 call where you hear Martin crying out for help before he is shot.

[Yoritomo]

It's just such a fucking terrible tragedy. I don't really even understand where people get the fear of black men from. White men are much much much more likely to be the victims of violence from other white men. Based on statistics people should fear the ones who look the most like they do.

Except there is the 911 call where you hear Martin crying out for help before he is shot.

Isn't the argument that that is Zimmerman crying for help? If it's Martin and they can confirm it's Martin then we're all probably discussing something that will resolve itself in the coming weeks, as Zimmerman will be in jail.

[Zoe]

then what's the point of talking about it in THIS thread? Sure, as a general concept, race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious. It often IS, but it's certainly not an absolute, 100% of the time, no exceptions truth of some sort such that if you're xxx skin tone you won't be considered suspicious no matter how strange you look or are behaving. But for BLACK folk...often times skin our color causes people to subconsciously default to a state of tension/anxiety/worry/fear. But in this thread, we're talking about a SPECIFIC circumstance where that tension/anxiety/worry/fear appears to have crept up on and gotten the better of one, Mr. Zimmerman. Arguing macro concepts in a thread very much about a specific incident is...kinda unnecessary, no?

Because a question was asked:

No, what I'm doing in taking the evidence into consideration. Why else would he be suspicious?

I've said several times that I believe Zimmerman would have done the same thing no matter who was walking on the street. He was just paranoid like that.

[Dreams-Visions]

Zimmerman stops and begins to talk with Martin. Martin attacks Zimmerman without provocation. He gains the upper hand and begins slamming Zimmerman's head against the concrete while on top of him. Zimmerman pulls gun and shoots Martin while this is happening.

It would be interesting to see what his original statement to police said, and how his injuries reflect said commentary.

Obviously, if he was getting his ass beat, I expect to see injuries that support an "ass kicking". A bloody nose and a busted lip don't cut it.

It's just such a fucking terrible tragedy. I don't really even understand where people get the fear of black men from. White men are much much much more likely to be the victims of violence from other white men. Based on statistics people should fear the ones who look the most like they do.

don't watch the news much, do ya? every other crime report shows a mug shot of a black man looking rough and scary.

or listen to that scary rap music?

[CrazyDogg77]

Well.. When I walk alone at night during the summer, coming back from some place or whatever, I usually put my hoodie on; simply because it looks more threatening and I don't want to be fucked with by the random idiots that live in my area. I'm not kidding. People simply find hoodies more 'threatening' because they help to conseal the face and hide it using shadows and whats not.

But Trayvon din't even put his hood up until he noticed Zimmerman was following him.

[Zoe]

Isn't the argument that that is Zimmerman crying for help? If it's Martin and they can confirm it's Martin then we're all probably discussing something that will resolve itself in the coming weeks, as Zimmerman will be in jail.

Without video evidence, the defense can argue that it wasn't Martin crying on the tape. All it takes is for one juror to doubt it was him.

[soundahfekz]

I stand by my stance that race does not have to be a factor for someone to be considered suspicious.

After your ridiculous and embarrassing "appropriate gear" comments including reflectors and lime green outwear, you'd probably be better off just standing by.

lebron, wade and rest of the heat players showing their support: short article here: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...on-martin-caseLook at those thugs /sarcasm

Not at fan of Lebron and the heat at all, but respect +10000000

[Dreams-Visions]

Without video evidence, the defense can argue that it wasn't Martin crying on the tape. All it takes is for one juror to doubt it was him.

wut?

kid's mother recognized her son's voice instantly when the family heard the tapes.

Not at fan of Lebron and the heat at all, but respect +10000000

+1

And are you referring to me?

if you feel like he's talking to you, he probably was.

[KodMoS]

Just gonna post this again. It would be nice if Realink, Kharv, Zoe ( -_-) and the other dude read it. Don't know how many more people are saying odd things in this thread, but I always enjoy Tims thoughts. http://www.timwise.org/2012/03/trayv...ss-in-america/

And are you referring to me?

[soundscream]

Without video evidence, the defense can argue that it wasn't Martin crying on the tape. All it takes is for one juror to doubt it was him.

There are multiple witnesses who say it was Martin crying out for help, and if you hear the tape its obviously the voice of Martin because its higher pitched then Zimmerman's.

No need to play Devils Advocate just because you can.

[levious]

I've said several times that I believe Zimmerman would have done the same thing no matter who was walking on the street. He was just paranoid like that.

didn't his history of police calls show a pretty solid trend? Especially in recent months.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...plete-log.html


He even once reported a 7-9 year old black male as suspicious.

There are multiple witnesses who say it was Martin crying out for help, and if you hear the tape its obviously the voice of Martin because its higher pitched then Zimmerman's. No need to play Devils Advocate just because you can.

that audio haunted me for awhile. I don't know for sure who it was, but to me it sounded like a frightened child.

[Zoe]

There are multiple witnesses who say it was Martin crying out for help, and if you hear the tape its obviously the voice of Martin because its higher pitched then Zimmerman's. No need to play Devils Advocate just because you can.

Those witnesses had never met him.

And I thought discussing aspects of the case was why we're here.

[sangreal]

Zimmerman stops and begins to talk with Martin. Martin attacks Zimmerman without provocation. He gains the upper hand and begins slamming Zimmerman's head against the concrete while on top of him. Zimmerman pulls gun and shoots Martin while this is happening. This is most likely NOT what happened but if there is no evidence to preclude this series of events and Zimmerman sticks to his "guns" as it were, and no evidence can cast a different light on the situation then Zimmerman walks. Even without stand your ground, if he had no means to retreat and his life was in danger then he pulls the trigger, martin dies, and here we are.

Without stand your ground, he would have been obligated to attempt to remove himself from the situation rather than start a confrontation with Martin, whom he felt threatened by (as evidenced by the fact that he phoned the police).

I don't have much of an opinion on whether or not Zimmerman is guilty though, I just find the lack of an arrest/investigation baffling. If he argues self defense in court and a jury buys it, so be it. The police shouldn't be deciding that on the side of the road. Can I kill anyone in private and avoid arrest by claiming self defense?

[soundahfekz]

And are you referring to me?

If he isn't it definitely applies

[Deified Data]

Get the fuck outta here with that, bro... The motherfucker ignored 911 dispachers telling him to not continue in pursuit. And by the way he sounded in the tape he was distraught from calling 911 many times over the last year and from the string of "supposed" robberies in his neighborhood. It's safe to assume Zimmermean probably thought the kid was scoping out houses to rob... only he ended up becoming judge, jury, and executioner for him in some sort of misunderstood confrontation. Edit: BTW. Doesn't matter if Zimmerman isn't "White", I know plenty of racist hispanics that live in my area of South Florida who could easily pass as the stereotypical 'racist honky' everyone is familiar with.

lol, Zimmermean? Was that intentional?

[KodMoS]

If he isn't it definitely applies

And how is that?

[Dreams-Visions]

didn't his history of police calls show a pretty solid trend? http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...plete-log.html He even once reported a 7-9 year old black male as suspicious.

*spits out iced tea*

Those witnesses had never met him. And I thought discussing aspects of the case was why we're here.

HIS.
MOTHER.
RECOGNIZED.
HER.
SON'S.
SCREAMING.
VOICE.
ON.
THE.
RECORDING.


If you think a jury is going to buy Zimmerman claiming that's HIS voice over a teary-eyed mother who'd heard her son's voice for 17 years...sheeeeeyit.

[CrazyDogg77]

Those witnesses had never met him. And I thought discussing aspects of the case was why we're here.

But what about his mother shouldn't she be able to identify her son's voice.

[Jangocube]

Odd this story is still being played out. Everything seems to be in motion for him to be prosecuted eventually. Why is this still front page news everywhere I turn?

Seems like most people agree that the guy is guilty...

[soundscream]

Those witnesses had never met him. And I thought discussing aspects of the case was why we're here.

Are you fucking with me.

They were there and said they heard him screaming not Zimmerman even when the police were trying to get them to say it was Zimmerman.

And your not discussing aspects of the case your bringing up unsubstantiated hypotheses to support your stance. Where the rest of us are going off of the evidence that has come out.

[Gordon Shumway]

After your ridiculous and embarrassing "appropriate gear" comments including reflectors and lime green outwear , you'd probably be better off just standing by.

Oh! Thought orange was ok..will order now.

[Dreams-Visions]

Odd this story is still being played out. Everything seems to be in motion for him to be prosecuted eventually. Why is this still front page news everywhere I turn? Seems like most people agree that the guy is guilty...

because the story is generating web traffic and money. business (news websites and stations) will cover it so long as people keep tuning in.

[soundahfekz]

And how is that?

Because the core details including some of the racially charged elements are pretty objective thus far, with the discrepancies only determining the degree to which Zimmerman is charged. Yet, there is a contingent of people who despite national condemnation, law experts, and those far more qualified to form an assertion of doubt (if there were one about whether he should be under arrest or not), that persist.

I strongly believe, whether admitted/realized or not that race is playing a STRONG role in the persistence of those who continue to essentially attempt swimming upstream in a torrent of evidence flowing in the opposite direction.

[Yoritomo]

It would be interesting to see what his original statement to police said, and how his injuries reflect said commentary. Obviously, if he was getting his ass beat, I expect to see injuries that support an "ass kicking". A bloody nose and a busted lip don't cut it. don't watch the news much, do ya? every other crime report shows a mug shot of a black man looking rough and scary. or listen to that scary rap music?

The news, especially local news is complete shit. I typically listen to BBC feeds or NPR. "You're doing something that could kill you right now! We'll tell you what that something is after the break."

I think I might be weird in that I assume that most people are good people trying to live life the best way they know how. Television and news reflects our absolute worst and inspires fear and paranoia where none need exist. The worst part is this fear and paranoia inspired by media screaming and shouting might actively mask very valuable fear that could save our lives in legitimate situations.

Then funny part is that I think my kids understand this more than most adults.

[PhoenixPause]

Odd this story is still being played out. Everything seems to be in motion for him to be prosecuted eventually. Why is this still front page news everywhere I turn? Seems like most people agree that the guy is guilty...

I'd be shocked if he's found guilty of anything. He's going to walk, and heads will roll

[DY_nasty]

I'd be shocked if he's found guilty of anything. He's going to walk, and heads will roll

Thats how I feel

Especially after Troy Davis

[CrazyDogg77]

I'd be shocked if he's found guilty of anything. He's going to walk, and heads will roll

If he walks things are gonna get crazy.

[Cuban Legend]

lol, Zimmermean? Was that intentional?

Tyop, Nice catch, lol.

[Yoritomo]

I'd be shocked if he's found guilty of anything. He's going to walk, and heads will roll

That would indicate a level of institutionalized racism that is just completely frankly disturbing. Then again, the "drug war" is still happening. If Martin didn't die, somebody would have found a way to slap a Felony conviction for possession on him even if he was clean as a whistle.

This thread is depressing.

[ffdgh]

I'd be shocked if he's found guilty of anything. He's going to walk, and heads will roll

No good will come if that were to happen.