[gunbo13]

It's never useful information if there's no cultural context. What does kun tell me? Jack shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Kun

A lot of foreign works require you to learn the culture. And this entire thread does it all the time even if you don't think you do. For normal name calling, there really isn't much issue. You expect parents to call their children without honorifics and such. But there are so many cases in manga where honorifics is a plot moment. Battle shounen readers might not see it often but it is important in other works. Senpai and kōhai are also not translatable but I find them important. It actually tells you who is the more experienced individual per context instead of figuring it out.

I'm not some adopt everything Japan weeaboo whatever. I'm simply willing to "learn" when it applies to reading works. And I know how honorifics work and it wasn't hard. Therefore, it is now better for "me" to have them remain since I gain information compared to otherwise.

Oh well. I still recommend checking it out when it's done and over with.

Most shoujo are shit though even if I rag on the hate. My list is usually like a dozen in count, which is not a lot.

[Glass Rebel]

You trippin son straight trippin

You haven't seen those karate hips and legs so just fall back and stop talking bout shit you dunno

[Kusagari]

Soifon > all in Bleach bois.

[Stat Flow]

Shaking my goddamn motherfucking head.

I ain't got nothing to say to this dumbass motherfucker right here...

Soifon > all in Bleach bois.

Shit I forgot about this one. She's hot.

YOU CAN MARK MY PENIS ANY DAY SOIFON.

[El Sloth]

Most shoujo are shit though even if I rag on the hate. My list is usually like a dozen in count, which is not a lot.

I usually drop most shoujo after the 1st chapter so it's not like I don't understand where the hate is coming from. I'm fully willing to admit I might just have shitty taste, but I really enjoy that series. It's a fun little thing to read.

[Glass Rebel]

Because you fuckin illiterate dumbshit

Good ass over errything

Shit I forgot about this one. She's hot. YOU CAN MARK MY PENIS ANY DAY SOIFON.

GUESS WHO COMIN BACK ON HIS KNEES LIKE USOPP NOW MOTHAFUCKA

[gunbo13]

I usually drop most shoujo after the 1st chapter so it's not like I don't understand where the hate is coming from. I'm fully willing to admit I might just have shitty taste, but I really enjoy that series. It's a fun little thing to read.

That's why we play victim and recommend the very few that are good. Like if anyone says Lovely Complex sucks we can take that shit outside.

[El Sloth]

Dresden was right.

A nest of perverts.

[Volodja]

I meant there should be shoujo manhwas branching off the manhwas mentioned often in the thread. Like a Breaker shoujo. It was a joke...

My bad, as a matter of fact I wasn't completely sure about what you meant with that post.

Finding good shoujo manga is so difficult. The vast majority of shoujo is just sooooo bad and it is a lot harder to gauge what is good or not based on the artwork/description.

Yeah, sometimes adventuring beyond the known authors can be pretty difficult.

The only things I can count on are awesome shoujo groups like Stiletto Heels and Hotcakes and authors I know are always good like Ryou Ikumi.

One can only hope that someday the scanlation of Cousin will be finished.

There are mountains of them. Including the best shoujo ever made.

Well, I was talking relatively speaking. Compared to the amount of japanese shoujos, the number is more limited but yes, as a whole they are quite numerous.
Princess has always been on my radar but between the hiatus (I try to read only completeld stuff) and some slight problems in availability I never managed to.
I also have some problems with the peculiarities of the drawing in manwhas and that always kind of holds me back when it comes to exploring that field completely.

[gunbo13]

My bad, as a matter of fact I wasn't completely sure about what you meant with that post.

I was trolling survivor cause he a hater.

Dresden was right.

More like lunatics.

[Zoramon089]

I wasn't joking man. Rukia and Tatsuki look like they have nice asses. Skinny girls who hide their asses underneath baggy clothes usually have the finest asses. I'm an ass-man. BALLA BALLA

This is pretty much never the case...

[Glass Rebel]

More like lunatics.

Says the guy using 50ppp.

This is pretty much never the case...

You're seeing the wrong girls then

[neoanarch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Kun A lot of foreign works require you to learn the culture. And this entire thread does it all the time even if you don't think you do. For normal name calling, there really isn't much issue. You expect parents to call their children without honorifics and such. But there are so many cases in manga where honorifics is a plot moment. Battle shounen readers might not see it often but it is important in other works. Senpai and kōhai are also not translatable but I find them important. It actually tells you who is the more experienced individual per context instead of figuring it out. I'm not some adopt everything Japan weeaboo whatever. I'm simply willing to "learn" when it applies to reading works. And I know how honorifics work and it wasn't hard. Therefore, it is now better for "me" to have them remain since I gain information compared to otherwise. Most shoujo are shit though even if I rag on the hate. My list is usually like a dozen in count, which is not a lot.

Honorifics
No they aren't necessary at all. A good translator can make the point come across. So yes I'd rather most scanners leave them be since its easier for them. But in cases like 7-nin no Shakespeare leaving honorifics completely ruins the manga for me. I have no idea why anyone would leave honorifics in that manga. Its a British setting in the 16th century for gods sake.

There was maybe one instance in Naruto where it was necessary and that is the only example I can think of. I probably would just have had Naruto call Sasuke a coward; or a girl though.

[gunbo13]

Says the guy using 50ppp.

Iphone when I'm away from comp.

Honorifics No they aren't necessary at all. A good translator can make the point come across. So yes I'd rather most scanners leave them be since its easier for them. But in cases like 7-nin no Shakespeare leaving honorifics completely ruins the manga for me. I have no idea why anyone would leave honorifics in that manga. Its a British setting in the 16th century for gods sake. There was maybe one instance in Naruto where it was necessary and that is the only example I can think of. I probably would just have had Naruto call Sasuke a coward; or a girl though.

You just pointed out why that is wrong. It has very much to do with the series. And fucking Naruto is not a good example.

[Glass Rebel]

Iphone when I'm away from comp.

So do I, you just can't handle it.

[gunbo13]

So do I, you just can't handle it.

I can't count past 50. That's why I read harem manga.

[Glass Rebel]

I'll admit. That made me laugh.

[survivor]

Oh I missed that, The Breaker shoujo?

[Stat Flow]

50ppp even on my HDTV. Suck it haters.

100 straight posts of all of you guys and your mediocrity is mentally damaging.

[ElFly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Kun A lot of foreign works require you to learn the culture. And this entire thread does it all the time even if you don't think you do. For normal name calling, there really isn't much issue. You expect parents to call their children without honorifics and such. But there are so many cases in manga where honorifics is a plot moment. Battle shounen readers might not see it often but it is important in other works. Senpai and kōhai are also not translatable but I find them important. It actually tells you who is the more experienced individual per context instead of figuring it out.

Honorifics aren't necessary. It's easier to leave them for the amateur translator, but someone with a good mastery of the (translated-to) language should not need them.

I'm not some adopt everything Japan weeaboo whatever. I'm simply willing to "learn" when it applies to reading works. And I know how honorifics work and it wasn't hard. Therefore, it is now better for "me" to have them remain since I gain information compared to otherwise.

This is a silly attitude. By this logic, the more japanese you learn, the more parts of the manga you will demand to be left untranslated until you achieve fluency and can read in the original?

That shit wouldn't be allowed in a professional translation.

Either learn japanese or don't. This attitude of demanding that "some of the text is untranslatable" is stupid.

[Lain]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Kun A lot of foreign works require you to learn the culture. And this entire thread does it all the time even if you don't think you do. For normal name calling, there really isn't much issue. You expect parents to call their children without honorifics and such. But there are so many cases in manga where honorifics is a plot moment. Battle shounen readers might not see it often but it is important in other works. Senpai and kōhai are also not translatable but I find them important. It actually tells you who is the more experienced individual per context instead of figuring it out. I'm not some adopt everything Japan weeaboo whatever. I'm simply willing to "learn" when it applies to reading works. And I know how honorifics work and it wasn't hard. Therefore, it is now better for "me" to have them remain since I gain information compared to otherwise.

I think that it is the goal of a good translation to convey through the text and the way the characters interact, the type of relationships characters have and the way relationships change, not by leaving in words in a foreign language.
Frankly, I've never minded honorifics, but I've never seen them matter much in a work, or at the very least I can't remember a single case in which a change in honorifics underlined some important plot moments that the interactions between the characters didn't already show and explain.
Now, leave in oneechan, senpai, baka, and I'll start to rage.

[neoanarch]

Iphone when I'm away from comp. You just pointed out why that is wrong. It has very much to do with the series. And fucking Naruto is not a good example.

Name one example where its absolutely necessary. Not every manga has to be a lesson in Japanese etiquette.

[scy]

Name one example where its absolutely necessary. Not every manga has to be a lesson in Japanese etiquette.

It's a bigger deal in mangas that make a big deal out of how characters interact, which is primarily down to honorifics use. I don't really like localization on them that gets nicknames involved so I like to side on the honorifics use there.

So basically 99% of shoujos.

[survivor]

To chime on this translation thing, the last few chapters of Ao no Futsumashi were pretty bad because everything is too Japanese, attacks, names, moves, locations. Shit is so confusing.

In general, I don't rage over the use of honorifics. I think they are lazy move by translators to leave them on but whatever. I'm not complaining much since most of the times I'm just happy the shit I want to read is getting translated.

[Freshmaker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#Kun A lot of foreign works require you to learn the culture. And this entire thread does it all the time even if you don't think you do. For normal name calling, there really isn't much issue. You expect parents to call their children without honorifics and such. But there are so many cases in manga where honorifics is a plot moment. Battle shounen readers might not see it often but it is important in other works.

When we're talking about a proper localization, this shouldn't ever, EVER be an issue.

In English, people are capable of inferring degrees of intimacy or formality without a tacked on garbage word to explain what's already perfectly apparent. It's not "untranslatable." It's implied.

Orihime likes Ichigo, and she's in his close circle of friends. I don't need her vomiting kuns every damn place to drive that point home. I'm not a shit covered moron.

Senpai and kōhai are also not translatable but I find them important. It actually tells you who is the more experienced individual per context instead of figuring it out.

Upperclassman/senior is untranslatable? The hell?

Again, it's usually implied in English. It doesn't need to be tattooed on my forehead for me to puzzle this out. It's shoehorning in a concept that the localization can convey relatively easily thanks to our cultural norms without resorting to code switching.

I'm not some adopt everything Japan weeaboo whatever. I'm simply willing to "learn" when it applies to reading works.

I studied Japanese. Doesn't mean I want it in a localization.

[Wiseblade]

Great, all this arguing reminded me of Funimation's use of honorifics in their dub of Ouran High School Host Club...

Honorifics in an amateur manga translation: Meh

Honorifics in a professional anime dub: Unacceptable

[chickdigger802]

Did tsubasa reservoir chronicles end strong?

I remember it getting super confusing with vampires and clones and what not.

[Haly]

Did tsubasa reservoir chronicles end strong?

No.

[Dedication Through Light]

Did tsubasa reservoir chronicles end strong? I remember it getting super confusing with vampires and clones and what not.

Well if you could differentiate between the clones and was alright with an open ended ending then I guess it ended strong, stronger than the anime at least. I was pleased though it felt so abrupt, they could have easily had it last way longer and emphasized some plot points more, fai and kurogane for one, and the time witch yoko...

But the art and character design in that final arc was so awesome and gorgeous. My second favorite finished manga.

[Infinite Justice]

Did tsubasa reservoir chronicles end strong? I remember it getting super confusing with vampires and clones and what not.

I highly doubt that lol


The one thing Bleach and OP fans could possibly(?) agree on is that their authors loves those big boobed women :P

[survivor]

I highly doubt that lol The one thing Bleach and OP fans could possibly(?) agree on is that their authors loves those big boobed women :P

Good thing Kishimoto has class and isn't a horny artist.

[Dedication Through Light]

Good thing Kishimoto has class and isn't a horny artist.

Lady Tsunade? The people pervy sage would spy on? Naruto's Sexy Jutsu, and Konohamaru's reverse of it?

[Infinite Justice]

He's like a blonde Kenichi.

Yea the hairstyle and his weapon really does make make it look like that.

Shoujo will never catch on here. C'mon, I just ate. It also does sound that way. Shame on you Stat Flow.

Yea it was pretty jarring seeing Stat post like that.

Good thing Kishimoto has class and isn't a horny artist.

Well he did do Tsunade, but shes like 60.....

i'm so confused now

[scy]

Upperclassman/senior is untranslatable? The hell?

It translates pretty well but doesn't flow as well. But perhaps that's just years of listening to it that has me used to hearing/reading it.

To each their own.

[PK Gaming]

Great, all this arguing reminded me of Funimation's use of honorifics in their dub of Ouran High School Host Club... Honorifics in an amateur manga translation: Meh Honorifics in a professional anime dub: Unacceptable

Sakura in Street Fighter X Tekken uses honorifics in cutscenes.

"Hey Jimmy-san!" and "Hibiki-san!"

It's vomit inducing.

[Big One]

I think survivor is joking guys...I mean he might as well have been the first of the big three to do big tittaes.

[survivor]

Lady Tsunade? The people pervy sage would spy on? Naruto's Sexy Jutsu, and Konohamaru's reverse of it?

None of them are main characters

Sakura in Street Fighter X Tekken uses honorifics in cutscenes. "Hey Jimmy-san!" and "Hibiki-san!" It's vomit inducing.

That's what you get for buying that piece of trash

[Haly]

We should use honorifics in mangaf.

[ColossalLazy]

Well he did do Tsunade, but shes like 60..... i'm so confused now

Hinata growth post skip is pretty great, there is the Mizukage, Anko(lol).

As for the dubs, is pretty weird hearing horifics in English.

[Freshmaker]

It translates pretty well but doesn't flow as well. But perhaps that's just years of listening to it that has me used to hearing/reading it. To each their own.

It doesn't flow because people never talk like that in English. You know someone's an upperclassman, and that's it.

"Oh, 8th grader Johnson!"
"How are you lower classman Bessemier?"
"Just fine 8th grader Johnson!"

[Infinite Justice]

None of them are main characters

Thats pretty low man

Hinata growth post skip is pretty great, there is the Mizukage, Anko(lol). As for the dubs, is pretty weird hearing horifics in English.

Forgot about Hinata (i can imagine the rage when Naruto does jack shit LOLOLOL) and the other 2 can pass.

As the dub topic leave off the honorifics in dubs please (or at least translate them and use when necessary).

[scy]

It doesn't flow because people never talk like that in English. You know someone's an upperclassman, and that's it. "Oh, 8th grader Johnson!" "How are you lower classman Bessemier?" "Just fine 8th grader Johnson!"

I was going to edit it in but you responded already. I'd just rather it be left out than translated since it's so damn ridiculous in English. The same for localizing honorifics; leave them out as they sound weird most the time.

Edit: But as far as scans, I don't really mind reading the -kuns, -sans, senpais, etc. etc. if it's somehow plot relevant. Which, again, a lot of shoujo tends to do the whole big deal of how names are used. Otherwise, doesn't matter too much to me.

[ColossalLazy]

Magi 80

*giant monster appears*

Sindria people :D :D :D

LOL at the fencing guy cutting the monster.

[El Sloth]

It doesn't flow because people never talk like that in English. You know someone's an upperclassman, and that's it. "Oh, 8th grader Johnson!" "How are you lower classman Bessemier?" "Just fine 8th grader Johnson!"

This right here. It's the difference between simply translating something and localizing it.

We should use honorifics in mangaf.

Haly-kun~

[Haly]

El Slothnii-sama~~

[Steroyd]

Yeah, I don't think something like Sanji's Robin-chwaaaaan~ and Nami-swaaaaaaan~, would be as effective if it were translated to Robwiiiin and Namwiiiiii.

[ColossalLazy]

El Slothnii-sama~~

creeeeepy

[survivor]

Yeah, I don't think something like Sanji's Robin-chwaaaaan~ and Nami-swaaaaaaan~, would be as effective if it were translated to Robwiiiin and Namwiiiiii.

Is this an anime thing only or does it actually happen in the manga?

[Infinite Justice]

Is this an anime thing only or does it actually happen in the manga?

I think some translators do it in the manga as well (?).

[Griffith]

Dragon Head

It would have been nice to have a proper ending instead of it just stopping like it did, but it didn't really bother me that much.

Even after everything I think my favourite part might still be the first couple volumes with the three kids trapped in the tunnel.