[Yagharek]

I want to return the series to that sort of 'mysterious world' that you couldn't wait to explore ala Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and FF6. I'd keep Hamazau on the soundtrack or bring in Mitsuda. I'd get Nomura off the art. No more trenchcoat wearing prettyboys/dolls. I'd get amano in there or even Toriyama ala Chrono Trigger for the art direction. There'd be a lot less CG cutscenes. My key would be to focus on just the sense of exploration, to where players just can't wait to see what locale is next. I'd definitely take the series back to its 'fantasy' roots.

In an ideal world, this would happen. Hell, maybe the series needs a 3DS/PSV entry that dials it back a bit from a HD linear walk, and puts mire emphasis on the aspects you listed.

[ULTROS!]

I dunno but I had fun with XIII. Every FF has its problems.

[Meccanical]

Why are people complaining about "returning to roots" and not salivating over Bravely Default like they ought to be?

[Kagari]

I dunno but I had fun with XIII. Every FF has its problems.

Right, but it's time to move on.

[bangai-o]

does Square-Enix read this thread to know what to do next?

[Meccanical]

does Square-Enix read this thread to know what to do next?

Square Enix doesn't give a damn about us.

[bangai-o]

Square Enix doesn't give a damn about us.

about neogaf? or western audience?

[Meccanical]

about neogaf? or western audience?

NeoGAF.

They care about western audiences,hence their publishing habits.

[beelzebozo]

FF13 definitely moved the series forward












off a cliff

[RedSwirl]

I think my current suggestion would be... stop pushing FFXIII. It's been their focus for 6 years now and to be honest I'm tired of seeing the characters from those two games. Whether I'm alone in those thoughts is yet to be seen but I feel like they've really run those characters into the ground. They weren't even that interesting to begin with. Separate from the XIII name and stigma associated with it and I think fans will be more than happy to see what's next. The problem with creating a laundry list of ideas into a game is we end up with something like FFXIII-2, which while a decent game... still isn't anything all that amazing. It still feels empty to the point where playing it feels like checking off a list.

Didn't they plan for FFXIII to be a 10-year franchise or something? Back in 2006-08 they were really talking about it being a meta-franchise in its own right. Just looking back at that kind of magnifies how much they've fucked up the franchise at this point.

This leads into a bigger problem that they have a huge mindshare problem. It's not just 13 either but every man game since ten has some portion of the fanbase up in arms. X-2=Pretty princess dressup XI=MMO borefest. XII=Took far too long for a single player MMO. XIII=Took far too long to be, well, FF XIII Versus=What the hell is that? Type Zero= They make PSP games? (west) Oh, its that cellphone game (Japan) XIV=Take everything good about XI. Throw it away. Also plenty of will never play because its an MMO carryover. XIII-2= More XIII, yawn. I'm not saying there wasn't major bitching about the games pre ten but its nothing on this scale. The triple whammy of XIII, XIII-2 and XIV though might have really put the company in a bad bad place.

They just didn't know where to go after X. Even back then we all knew that X was gonna be the end of an era for Final Fantasy. I guess they just hadn't really come together and agreed upon where the franchise was gonna go after that.

Now if you ask a lot of people (including me) XII's mechanics should've become the framework for the franchise going forward, just like IV's basic systems became the framework for all the games up to IX.

[Seda]

I usually avoid threads like this.

I quite liked, to varying degrees, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12. I didn't care for XIII and it's sequel was better but never really asked for.

It's takes more than a recent pair of disappointing games to tell me the entire brand needs saving.

EDIT: I guess I neglected the MMOs, but I really know nothing about those.

[Kagari]

Didn't they plan for FFXIII to be a 10-year franchise or something? Back in 2006-08 they were really talking about it being a meta-franchise in its own right. Just looking back at that kind of magnifies how much they've fucked up the franchise at this point.

Yeah, but that included Versus and Agito iirc.
Somehow I don't think they imagined they'd be doing a 13-2 at that point OR that it would take three years just for FFXIII to even release.

[Esura]

I personally don't think the brand needs saving, its doing alright right now imo. Ready for FFXIII-3 after FFXIII-2 now.

[Meccanical]

It would help if older players realized they aren't the target demographic anymore methinks.

[FINALBOSS]

I want an amazing world that I WANT to explore every nook and cranny of.

[Entwain]

It would help if older players realized they aren't the target demographic anymore methinks.

A thousand times this. Bought xiii-2 on a bestbuy $15 sale and didn't stop till I platinumed it, very fun with the monster system and good (but pricey) dlc.

The FF series really only needs to remove the hub system and release an open explorable world add in a good amount of sidequests to make us want to explore said world, and maybe go back to letting characters be individuals instead of everyone can do every job but has different limits (ala ff12) or just different weapons with slightly different stats (13-2).

[ZombiePlatypus]

Either: [list][*]Cel-shaded game based completely off Yoshitaka Amano (who would oversee all art assets)

I love Nomura's artstyle and will ardently defend him when he gets all kinds of crazy hate, but I would be all over an Amano style game.

[beelzebozo]

It would help if older players realized they aren't the target demographic anymore methinks.

that reads like a backhanded, cheap way of saying the only way to reach a young audience is to be juvenile and angsty to the point of obnoxiousness. a lot of games and television and film and books do a good job of appealing to a young audience without expressly "dumbing it down" or pandering.

[Meccanical]

that reads like a backhanded, cheap way of saying the only way to reach a young audience is to be juvenile and angsty to the point of obnoxiousness. a lot of games and television and film and books do a good job of appealing to a young audience without expressly "dumbing it down" or pandering.

And what does it matter to Square Enix?

They still make a lot of money last I heard, they don't have to change anything.

Not too mention remakes serve as a great pacifier for old fans anyway.

[beelzebozo]

And what does it matter to Square Enix? They still make a lot of money last I heard, they don't have to change anything.

i guess because the model that actively sloughs off large demographics who want desperately to like your games doesn't exactly ensure the future health of the company.

[Lightning]

\XII=Took far too long for a single player MMO.

Don't agree. This game was awesome and is one of my favourite games of the PS2 era. The only complaint I could have is the battle system/gambit system and the story but those are minor. The amount of enjoyment I got out of this game exceeded my expectations and it's post game especially should be what RPG's strive for. None of the current gen FF games have matched this game, imo.

[Kagari]

It would help if older players realized they aren't the target demographic anymore methinks.

The problem with that is that their "target audience" hasn't really expanded to compensate for their older fans.

[Esura]

The problem with that is that their "target audience" hasn't really expanded to compensate for their older fans.

But the older fanbase (myself included) want too much different stuff out of the franchise from other older fans so I doubt everyone can be pleased. It seems like a lose/lose for Square regardless and someone isn't going to be happy no matter what Square does.

[Meccanical]

But the older fanbase (myself included) want too much different stuff out of the franchise from other older fans so I doubt everyone can be pleased. It seems like a lose/lose for Square regardless and someone isn't going to be happy no matter what Square does.

Which means they should really go back to the roots of all roots, do whatever the hell they want because its their game. if people like it great, if they don't oh well.

[Kagari]

But the older fanbase (myself included) want too much different stuff out of the franchise from other older fans so I doubt everyone can be pleased. It seems like a lose/lose for Square regardless and someone isn't going to be happy no matter what Square does.

Yeah... they're in a really odd situation.

[Esura]

Which means they should really go back to the roots of all roots, do whatever the hell they want because its your game. if people like it great, if they don't oh well.

This is pretty much the only way to go about it.

Yeah... they're in a really odd situation.

All they can do is try to appeal to many people as they possibly can. I would prefer that they do something they are passionate about and not focus test or rely on too much outside input. They seem to have enough development issues as is.

[spirity]

It would help if older players realized they aren't the target demographic anymore methinks.

Fashionista's with a penchant for golf shoes is FF's target demographic.

[Etrian Oddity]

And what does it matter to Square Enix? They still make a lot of money last I heard, they don't have to change anything. Not too mention remakes serve as a great pacifier for old fans anyway.

Certainly not from this "new demographic" or Fabula Nova Crystalis. Not nearly as much as they expected, at the very least.

[Freshmaker]

The franchise need to go back to its roots, aka high fantasy. I'm fucking tired of robots and sci-fi shit in the newest games.

You fought a mech that shot nukes at you for the final boss of FF1. The roots don't support your vision.

[hateradio]

I personally don't think the brand needs saving, its doing alright right now imo. Ready for FFXIII-3 after FFXIII-2 now.

Eh. I'd say otherwise.

Versus isn't out yet, FFXIV was a failure, and the next console FF will probably be FFXIII-esque, too.

Maybe they'll hand over the franchise to Eidos, at least they've shown that they can do an RPG.

[Kagari]

A XIII-3 would be one of the worst things they could do imo. Sales across all regions were poor for XIII-2 and a third one would likely be even lower.

The idea of direct sequels is to sell even more. SE has gone backward in that regard.

[Esura]

Eh. I'd say otherwise. Versus isn't out yet, FFXIV was a failure, and the next console FF will probably be FFXIII-esque, too. Maybe they'll hand over the franchise to Eidos, at least they've shown that they can do an RPG.

I'd probably quit the series if they hand it off to Eidos. Not that I dislike them or anything but I don't want them touching a mainline FF game under any circumstances.

A XIII-3 would be one of the worst things they could do imo. Sales across all regions were poor for XIII-2 and a third one would likely be even lower. The idea of direct sequels is to sell even more. SE has gone backward in that regard.

That is odd, how their direct sequels seem to always perform worse. Maybe its because of the dumb numbering of direct sequels. Should just give them a subtitle or something.

If not a FFXIII-3, at least some sort of extended DLC. They can't leave FFXIII-2 like it is can they?

[Kagari]

I'd probably quit the series if they hand it off to Eidos. Not that I dislike them or anything but I don't want them touching a mainline FF game under any circumstances. That is odd, how their direct sequels seem to always perform worse. Maybe its because of the dumb numbering of direct sequels. Should just give them a subtitle or something. If not a FFXIII-3, at least some sort of extended DLC. They can't leave FFXIII-2 like it is can they?

The final story DLC is due out in May and it supposed to answer the 'To be continued.' So we'll see.

And I think part of the issue is the "sequels" or spin-offs or whatever just aren't of the same quality combined with the reality that SE really has done too many of them over the years. There is an impression among fans that their sequels are automatically inferior products.

[hateradio]

I'd probably quit the series if they hand it off to Eidos. Not that I dislike them or anything but I don't want them touching a mainline FF game under any circumstances. That is odd, how their direct sequels seem to always perform worse. Maybe its because of the dumb numbering of direct sequels. Should just give them a subtitle or something. If not a FFXIII-3, at least some sort of extended DLC. They can't leave FFXIII-2 like it is can they?

"To Be Continued" pretty much ensures some kind of continuation, so DLC or a third game are possible. I guess DLC would sell more at this point. :P

I have no intention in playing XIII-2 or 3, so In a way I've already given up on Square. I had far more fun with DEHR than XIII.

[Ether_Snake]

Only Matsuno knows how to make a good FF now.

For me the series is dead, FFXII is the last one I played and I loved it.

I bet Wada will just see his superstitious beliefs reinforced: the number 13 is bad luck!

edit: If they can't please everyone, they could make two different FF branches. Maybe one will be made in the west, one in Japan. But it probably won't mean anything anymore anyway.

[Phat Michael]

To me, square have talent, but the FF series has lost its direction. I would give the series a total reboot, even though it would piss a lot of people off. Notes as follows:

- Call it "Final Fantasy"
- Cyberpunk setting, similar to original SNES shadowrun. Have mages, shaman, hackers etc.
- Combat system should be real time, very similar to dark souls
- Completely adult themes and context - adult characters who look like real people in a much darker setting. No moogles, spikey haired teenagers or anything like this.
- combination of technology and magic is fine. No stupid massive sword gun hybrids.

I think if they stuck to these points going forward you could have a really interesting game, the only problem is that it would not be a "traditional" final fantasy...

[Meccanical]

To me, square have talent, but the FF series has lost its direction. I would give the series a total reboot, even though it would piss a lot of people off. Notes as follows: - Call it "Final Fantasy" - Cyberpunk setting, similar to original SNES shadowrun. Have mages, shaman, hackers etc. - Combat system should be real time, very similar to dark souls - Completely adult themes and context - adult characters who look like real people in a much darker setting. No moogles, spikey haired teenagers or anything like this. - combination of technology and magic is fine. No stupid massive sword gun hybrids. I think if they stuck to these points going forward you could have a really interesting game, the only problem is that it would not be a "traditional" final fantasy...

When people say they want traditional FF, they really mean "the one I like", the best thing they could do for themselves is STOP listening to the fans.

New and old. All great FFs were not born from fan feedback, they were born from inspiration and the desire to turn vision into reality.

[hateradio]

I still want another steampunk FF game. :(

When people say they want traditional FF, they really mean "the one I like", the best thing they could do for themselves is STOP listening to the fans. New and old. All great FFs were not born from fan feedback, they were born from inspiration and the desire to turn vision into reality.

How could they stop listening to the fans when they're practically all fanboys in that company.

They obviously haven't been listening to anyone, which is why they're selling to no one.

[Meccanical]

I still want another steampunk FF game. :( How could they stop listening to the fans when they're practically all fanboys in that company. They obviously haven't been listening to anyone, which is why they're selling to no one.

What are you even talking about.

[Kagari]

The result of listening to the fans is FFXIII-2 ;)

[Vamphuntr]

Only Matsuno knows how to make a good FF now. For me the series is dead, FFXII is the last one I played and I loved it. I bet Wada will just see his superstitious beliefs reinforced: the number 13 is bad luck! edit: If they can't please everyone, they could make two different FF branches. Maybe one will be made in the west, one in Japan. But it probably won't mean anything anymore anyway.

I also loved XII a lot (one of my favorite FF) but at the same time it's a bit ironic isn't it because Matsuno actually failed to complete the game.

[hateradio]

What are you even talking about.

The sales thing may have been hyperbole, but the previous part should make sense.

Wada is a Lightning fanboy. :3

I also loved XII a lot (one of my favorite FF) but at the same time it's a bit ironic isn't it because Matsuno actually failed to complete the game.

He got mysteriously ill. I'm sure someone poisoned his food.

[encephalon]

True... less sci-fi and more 'fantasy' or at least modern fantasy.

I love when Final Fantasy does sci fi. The most creative designs seem to come out of it.

[Vane_MagicCity]

I love when Final Fantasy does sci fi. The most creative designs seem to come out of it.

Yeah, I think after TES and Dragon Age, I don't want more medieval stuff and Final Fantasy does sci-fi very well.

[sponk]

my 2 cents:

- proper atb-like battle system
- proper 3D overworld
- rendered HD towns/dungeons
- likeable characters, good story

[MikeE21286]

I personally don't think the brand needs saving, its doing alright right now imo. Ready for FFXIII-3 after FFXIII-2 now.

[encephalon]

Yeah, I think after TES and Dragon Age, I don't want more medieval stuff and Final Fantasy does sci-fi very well.

Medieval can be done well, but it's typically the "default" design in RPGs.

[odd_morsel]

They don't really need to save the brand. It's just different from what it was when I was growing up and that's fine when there are other games to take its place.

[TruePrime]

Only Matsuno knows how to make a good FF now. For me the series is dead, FFXII is the last one I played and I loved it. I bet Wada will just see his superstitious beliefs reinforced: the number 13 is bad luck! edit: If they can't please everyone, they could make two different FF branches. Maybe one will be made in the west, one in Japan. But it probably won't mean anything anymore anyway.

What the hell?

You didn't even play XIII and you are saying shit like this? This mindset is just annoying. It's because of this kinda shit that millions missed out on XII because they simply didn't give it a chance.

Also, why would sending it to the west do shit to fix this? It would only serve to destroy shrinking faith in the Japanese audience and it wouldn't please either type of current FF fanboy as it is.

[state_vector_collapse]

To me, square have talent, but the FF series has lost its direction. I would give the series a total reboot, even though it would piss a lot of people off. Notes as follows: - Combat system should be real time, very similar to dark souls I think if they stuck to these points going forward you could have a really interesting game, the only problem is that it would not be a "traditional" final fantasy...

But then it isn't Final Fantasy? I have never understood why people always want Final Fantasy to change things like the battle system. It is the single thing to completely turn me off the latest games.

I don't think I ever see people saying Zelda needs to change its battle system, or Tales games. Why does FF need to change what fundamentally made it FF in the first place? By all means make games like Demon Souls if they want. Just don't call it FF.