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Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 08:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cabbie

Edit: Didn't mean to insinuate direct port. But it's not a paradigm shift either, at least in my humble opinion.

And that's a shame.

Despite the somewhat bland art, NSMB Wii was a great game and put NSMB DS to shame. Nice level design, plenty of challenge, the return of the Koopa Kids, new Airship stages, World 9 bonus, one of the best Bowser battles of all time (which if IIRC based on something Miyamoto hinted at in an interview was also a tribute to Giant Bowser battle from Yoshi's Island ), I could go on. Heck, it even redeemed Bowser Jr with the tight new Koopa Clown car battles. Sure it's not a game changer for the series but it's still a AAA sequel.
AzaK
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(04-05-2012, 08:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

Well that snippet you quoted states that there's is a performance benefit so that's a good thing IMO. The wii couldn't do any of the modern shader stuff, but Wii U will. That said it will all come down to whether developers put the effort in to use its unique features and I imagine if Nintendo are talking closely with Epic and Crytek that their engines at least will support the features.

In summary, I'm not worried....yet :)
Azure J
Member
(04-05-2012, 08:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

Shit just got real. *hyped*
BY2K
Membero Americo
(04-05-2012, 08:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by HylianTom

Nope.. he made a Wii U rumor parody thread. It was pretty deliberate. Damn shame.

Can I see that?
-Pyromaniac-
(04-05-2012, 08:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.
schuelma
Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
(04-05-2012, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.


Definitely makes sense. The proof will be in Nintendo's first part efforts at E3. Should be fun.
guek
Member
(04-05-2012, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

interresting. thanks for posting that :-)
BY2K
Membero Americo
(04-05-2012, 09:01 PM)
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Nevermind, found it.

He was brave to do that.
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

Despite the somewhat bland art, NSMB Wii was a great game and put NSMB DS to shame. Nice level design, plenty of challenge, the return of the Koopa Kids, new Airship stages, World 9 bonus, one of the best Bowser battles of all time (which if IIRC based on something Miyamoto hinted at in an interview was also a tribute to Giant Bowser battle from Yoshi's Island ), I could go on. Heck, it even redeemed Bowser Jr with the tight new Koopa Clown car battles. Sure it's not a game changer for the series but it's still a AAA sequel.

You are also right, objectively it is a great game. I'm just expressing my hope that things will be mixed up for Wii U.
Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cabbie

You are also right, objectively it is a great game. I'm just expressing my hope that things will be mixed up for Wii U.

I agree, it'd be nice if they changed it up and went with a more hand drawn SMW/YI style. Probably gonna be awhile though due to NSMB Mii.
BD1
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(04-05-2012, 09:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

I agree, it'd be nice if they changed it up and went with a more hand drawn SMW/YI style. Probably gonna be awhile though due to NSMB Mii.

I still hold out hope the rumor that Good Feel was working on a new Yoshi's Island is true.
ozfunghi
Member
(04-05-2012, 09:26 PM)
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So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

Nice certainly (I like the way GC games look), but possibly the weakest of the generation performance wise (bar the 1998 Dreamcast).

Well, everything we're hearing places Wuu either on a par with PS360, or below.

etc...
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 09:26 PM)
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Artoon did well on their second attempt at the IP. Largely due to using alot of the assets from the original, but it was still good.

Whoever makes it, I just want to see those colorful crayon visuals again. :)
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

Just like whatever site, they have good posters and bad posters.
I found that GC/Xbox/PS2 comparison illarious too.
Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by BD1

I still hold out hope the rumor that Good Feel was working on a new Yoshi's Island is true.

Yeah, I think it's been about a year since that rumour first floated and then it just kinda went nowhere and disappeared. IIRC it was supposed to be on 3DS, if it's true I hope it was delayed to be put on Wii U.
-Pyromaniac-
(04-05-2012, 09:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

etc...

b3D definitely has more knowledgeable posters than other forums, including here. A forum can't have idiots? I've yet to see one.
AceBandage
Banned
(04-05-2012, 09:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.

Yup. That was pretty much said earlier in the thread. Still don't know if I agree with it, but I'm sure that Nintendo is going to work much closer with many thrlird parties so that they understand how to use the system better. We'be already seen them do this with Ubisoft.
BD1
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(04-05-2012, 09:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

Yeah, I think it's been about a year since that rumour first floated and then it just kinda went nowhere and disappeared. IIRC it was supposed to be on 3DS, if it's true I hope it was delayed to be put on Wii U.

It was definitely a part of the big Pre-TGS rumor list, where most everything ended up true. Yoshi's Island was one of the few that didn't surface, sadly.
StevieP
Member
(04-05-2012, 09:37 PM)

Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

b3D definitely has more knowledgeable posters than other forums, including here. A forum can't have idiots? I've yet to see one.

There are a lot of cross-posters here and there as well (specialguy/Rangers, French/french toast, bg, wsippel, me lol etc) but I was quoting a person that has reliably leaked things in the past. It matches what wsippel and bg have speculated, so it might mean something.
Rösti
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(04-05-2012, 09:41 PM)
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A bit more on the exhibitor site, these have been added:

http://www.mapyourshow.com/shows/index.cfm?Show_ID=E312

Action - Nintendo Wii U

TECMO KOEI AMERICA Corporation

Most likely Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, nothing interesting really.

Peripherals - Nintendo Wii U

ViviTouch - Feel The Game

Now this is rather interesting, seeing what Artificial Muscle's ViviTouch technology is.

Utilizing a revolutionary new component, ViviTouch™ is the first product to intensify the experience of mobile gaming by evolving it: No longer just a pretty picture frame, a ViviTouch™-enabled device allows you to feel explosions, aerial battles and uppercuts like you were meant to.

To summarize, it's haptics. Nothing truly revolutionary but could give the Wii U Remote a nice boost. G4 has an article and a video from CES 2012 about this: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...ure-of-rumble/

http://www.vivitouch.com/technology.php

Racing - Nintendo Wii U

Maximum Family Games LLC

Maximum Family Games is, as probably heard on the name, a budget developer similar to Game Factory. For Wii, they've developed the following titles:
  • Burger Bot
  • Canada Hunt
  • Kart Racer
  • Maximum Racing: Crash Car Racer
  • Maximum Racing: Drag & Stock Racer
  • Maximum Racing: GP Classic Racing
  • Sprint Cars
  • Truck Racer
  • Veggy World
They are also behind Hello Kitty Online Premium Edition for PC. As for Wii U, it is most likely a Wii port, I don't see them putting any greater attention to anything developed especially for Wii U, seeing how graphics appear to be no priority in the games they developed for Wii.

http://www.maximumfamilygames.com/
Christine
(04-05-2012, 09:45 PM)
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what what what haptics?
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 09:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

A bit more on the exhibitor site, these have been added:

http://www.mapyourshow.com/shows/index.cfm?Show_ID=E312

Action - Nintendo Wii U

TECMO KOEI AMERICA Corporation

Most likely Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, nothing interesting really.

Peripherals - Nintendo Wii U

ViviTouch - Feel The Game

Now this is rather interesting, seeing what Artificial Muscle's ViviTouch technology is.



To summarize, it's haptics. Nothing truly revolutionary but could give the Wii U Remote a nice boost. G4 has an article and a video from CES 2012 about this: [

Rosti, you are quickly becoming a favourite of mine. Thanks for this.

You are all awesome, though. ;) <3
guek
Member
(04-05-2012, 09:47 PM)
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I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 09:48 PM)
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Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.
neeksleep
Junior Member
(04-05-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Utilizing a revolutionary new component, ViviTouch™ is the first product to intensify the experience of mobile gaming by evolving it: No longer just a pretty picture frame, a ViviTouch™-enabled device allows you to feel explosions, aerial battles and uppercuts like you were meant to.

Huh...
wonderdung
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(04-05-2012, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.
nordique
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(04-05-2012, 09:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.


Good post, I hope this doesn't go unnoticed :P

Some key insight there, especially the notion of a similar design philosophy to flipper. That is hugely exciting.
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(04-05-2012, 09:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by wonderdung

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.

So it's NeoGaf?
walking fiend
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(04-05-2012, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.

I can't think of anything else:
http://www.vivitouch.com/demos.php
Oddduck
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(04-05-2012, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.

Maybe Nintendo is realizing that the touchscreen controller idea isn't interesting enough to sell to casuals so they will try to spice it up a bit.
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 09:58 PM)
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This haptic thing must be expensive...?
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(04-05-2012, 09:58 PM)
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Vitality Haptics
AlStrong
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(04-05-2012, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by wonderdung

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.

You sound like you were banned from there.


I keed. :p
Bagu
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(04-05-2012, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics.

Take New Love Plus to its logical extreme.
Last edited by Bagu; 04-05-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Hoo-doo
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(04-05-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElTopo

It would allow (in theory) to make it easier for the player to distinguish digital buttons, imagine a FPS where you have various digital buttons (e.g. for different weapons), so haptic feedback could make it easier for the player to find the right button without looking at the screen.

I don't see it happen though.

I thought that was what it was, but I think this Vivitouch is a completely different technology.
It's basically a more advanced rumble, that can accurately mimic certain movements and vibrations, more precise than the simple vibrating motors found in phones and other console controllers.

The haptic tech that was rumored to go in the next iPad for example, created by Senseg, was designed to make the touchscreen feel like any texture, so indeed buttons, or rough surfaces like parchment or stone.
Last edited by Hoo-doo; 04-05-2012 at 10:04 PM.
walking fiend
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(04-05-2012, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

This haptic thing must be expensive...?

Yes;

but now I guess there's really no reason for it to be used 'integrated' in the controller:
http://www.amazon.com/Mophie-Pulse-G.../dp/B004S0SIXO

It maybe just that it is compatible with the Utab

Bought this to share among three iPods for my 3 kids. May need to get another 2!
The hardware is well designed and built (handy little on/off switch on the back is nice) and battery status indicator is welcome.
Seems to have pretty long battery life - so far battery life on Pulse is as long as iPod battery life.
Effects work through sound output so it can be distracting with certain games that have background music - if you can turn the music off it is better.
Works best with games with sound effects that mimic the action.
Pros: Not buzzy like some built-in effects from iPod motor and provides much more "solid" response - really feels like something moving.
Cons: limited by game design. Needs to have more effects built into games, instead of just sound output.

It is really noticeable when you turn if off and play the same game without it - feels like you've lost a sense! This should be built into every touch device!

Forsaken82
(04-05-2012, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.

Why complain about something that would only enhance the experience? I can't really see Haptic putting a damper on anything so it would seem only natural to be excited about something like this.
Thraktor
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(04-05-2012, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

The GPU shouldn't need any fixed-function units to handle BC, as a sufficiently capable programmable shader architecture shouldn't have much trouble emulating the TEVs.

Furthermore, fixed functionality does not necessarily equal bad. When you put fixed function hardware on a GPU, you're trading off versatility for efficiency. That fixed function unit is going to do whatever is does much more effectively than a fully programmable unit, but of course do everything else a whole lot worse (if at all). Hence, fixed function hardware makes a lot of sense for things which pretty much every game does, like lighting (which I had also suggested earlier as a good use of fixed function hardware).
D_prOdigy
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(04-05-2012, 10:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Forsaken82

Why complain about something that would only enhance the experience? I can't really see Haptic putting a damper on anything so it would seem only natural to be excited about something like this.

Because it sounds, prima facie, like the sort of expensive (to the consumer) feature that is shoe-horned into the pad at a late stage just to try and get some edge over competitors.

Though let's not be hasty.
StevieP
Member
(04-05-2012, 10:10 PM)

Originally Posted by Thraktor

The GPU shouldn't need any fixed-function units to handle BC, as a sufficiently capable programmable shader architecture shouldn't have much trouble emulating the TEVs.

Furthermore, fixed functionality does not necessarily equal bad. When you put fixed function hardware on a GPU, you're trading off versatility for efficiency. That fixed function unit is going to do whatever is does much more effectively than a fully programmable unit, but of course do everything else a whole lot worse (if at all). Hence, fixed function hardware makes a lot of sense for things which pretty much every game does, like lighting (which I had also suggested earlier as a good use of fixed function hardware).

Fair enough. But my point about third parties and middleware makers (like Epic) not giving a damn are probably still spot on.

They're going to use whatever programmable hardware it has and call it a day. And it seems that programmable hardware isn't necessarily going to go far beyond what we already have in consoles. There weren't many developers that took any real advantage of the GC/Wii's GPU, outside Nintendo, Factor 5, and maybe Capcom.
Father_Brain
Samus made me a Widower :(
(04-05-2012, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Thraktor

The GPU shouldn't need any fixed-function units to handle BC, as a sufficiently capable programmable shader architecture shouldn't have much trouble emulating the TEVs.

Furthermore, fixed functionality does not necessarily equal bad. When you put fixed function hardware on a GPU, you're trading off versatility for efficiency. That fixed function unit is going to do whatever is does much more effectively than a fully programmable unit, but of course do everything else a whole lot worse (if at all). Hence, fixed function hardware makes a lot of sense for things which pretty much every game does, like lighting (which I had also suggested earlier as a good use of fixed function hardware).

Would it make UE4 support less likely, though? Epic has made little secret of its unwillingness to adapt UE to fixed function hardware like 3DS' PICA200, though I don't know nearly enough to say how comparable that situation is.
GameplayWhore
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(04-05-2012, 10:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

ViviTouch - Feel The Game

Originally Posted by TunaLover

Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.

GIVE IT TO ME YOU MAGNIFICENT ASSHOLES!

*cough*

Erm… I mean, I would like this. I would actually buy a Nintendogs game if I could feel the fur as I petted the doggies.

Yes, I realize how that last sentence sounds.

Now if only I could think of a compelling use of the feature (I believe there should be a bunch) that would make games more interesting and/or fun. But I got nothing so far.
Hoo-doo
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(04-05-2012, 10:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

GIVE IT TO ME YOU MAGNIFICENT ASSHOLES!

*cough*

Erm… I mean, I would like this. I would actually buy a Nintendogs game if I could feel the fur as I petted the doggies.

Yes, I realize how that last sentence sounds.

Now if only I could think of a compelling use of the feature (I believe there should be a bunch) that would make games more interesting and/or fun. But I got nothing so far.

What you are talking about is Senseg haptic touch, not Vivitouch.

Here's a video from Gamespot explaining about the tech. They do say they have been talking to big companies, and are expected to launch their first haptic product at the end of 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA
Oddduck
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(04-05-2012, 10:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoo-doo

What you are talking about is Senseg haptic touch, not Vivitouch.

Here's a video from Gamespot explaining about the tech. They do say they have been talking to big companies, and are expected to launch their first haptic product at the end of 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA

Oh jeez. Now the conspiracy theories can begin lol.
jump_button
Banned
(04-05-2012, 10:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.

was that not a 3DS rumor?
D_prOdigy
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(04-05-2012, 10:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by jump_button

was that not a 3DS rumor?

I remember there being a rumour about some sort of haptic stylus. That might have been an actual Nintendo patent, IIRC.
nluckett
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(04-05-2012, 10:23 PM)
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Forgive me if Im a little ignorant on this, but what kind of AA can we expect on the Wii U? I loved the look of that Zelda demo, but it was still very jaggy.

Is AA a software thing or a hardware thing? I thought a big part of the N64 was that it did AA on the hardware.
wonderdung
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(04-05-2012, 10:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by AlStrong

You sound like you were banned from there.


I keed. :p

Not banned. I did make an account just because reading so much quasi-information was frustrating but correct, semi-correct, and incorrect all get lost in the noise.

(Half the stuff I'd want to talk about is under NDAs anyway... something that more generally works against tech-centered subforums like B3D's Console Technology.)
Last edited by wonderdung; 04-05-2012 at 10:30 PM.
GameplayWhore
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(04-05-2012, 10:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoo-doo

What you are talking about is Senseg haptic touch, not Vivitouch.

Here's a video from Gamespot explaining about the tech. They do say they have been talking to big companies, and are expected to launch their first haptic product at the end of 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA

Surely, I will take a closer look at the Vivitouch page. A cursory glance seemed to suggest that it emulates feeling on screens, but I cannot view the videos which go in more detail here at work. The dev page give way too vague an explanation. Almost sounds like it's a rumble pack from how they describe it. :|
AceBandage
Banned
(04-05-2012, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by nluckett

Forgive me if Im a little ignorant on this, but what kind of AA can we expect on the Wii U? I loved the look of that Zelda demo, but it was still very jaggy.

Is AA a software thing or a hardware thing? I thought a big part of the N64 was that it did AA on the hardware.

It's a bit of both. The system should be able to run some AA, especially if the 32MB eDRAM is true.

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