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Nibel
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(04-05-2012, 07:36 PM)
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That next issue of Edge could be a goldmine for this thread
NateDrake
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(04-05-2012, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by BY2K

Some do.

Wasn't Duke Nukem Forever in its final form revealed at PAX?

Yes & LA Noire had a major presence at PAX East. Plus Gears of War 3 beta was at PAX East last yr.
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by DragonSworne

Have you actually playes NSMBWii???? I don't think you have.

Introduction of new game mechanics is not the end all be all for me in regards to what I consider a new experience. Take that however you like I suppose.
StevieP
Member
(04-05-2012, 07:39 PM)
I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

First off, this board is far too educated to presume that developing a console GPU is like shopping at Newegg. Or even determining current component prices, if it was AMD/ATI, Genyo Takeda (IR&D) would not have spent 2yrs.+ in the development process on the Wii U's graphics processor. I realize we are attempting to establish a power as well as an architectural baseline, but this will be an amalgamation of processor capabilities that will yield a very custom proprietary chip. Somewhat defying the current DX metric. (to a degree of course)

What I mean when I say that is this, we cannot assume because it's based off of, or similar to gpu architecture "X," that it is incapable of "Y." Y equaling effects such as tessellation, IBL, real-time GI, deferred rendering, etc. There are certain visual aspects, such as lighting, that are very important to Nintendo. I have heard that, much like the Flipper, Nintendo has incorporated at least partially a portion of the same design philosophies into the Wii U chipset. Features that “automagically” appear during shader code implementation.

You will see a marked performance difference in their proprietary engines, as well as close 3rd parties, & exclusive titles. (UbiSoft, Capcom, etc.) Also, ARM may also be providing their DSP component solution. The nameless devs that are claiming inferiority to the current generation of consoles are either inept, or working with middleware that is still yet unoptimized for the differing Wii U architecture.

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.
magash
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(04-05-2012, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

That is their problem then. If the 3rd party developers half arse their output they will be at a disadvantage.
DragonSworne
Satoru Iwata and his Trilateral Commission cronies are suppressing the truth about Retro. Wake up, sheeple!
(04-05-2012, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cabbie

Introduction of new game mechanics is not the end all be all for me in regards to what I consider a new experience. Take that however you like I suppose.

Fair enough, but your criticism ignores the fact NSMBWii game mechanics are different and more mature than the DS version.

But art style and simplicity of the NSMB is the trademark for the game series. You'll need to look at the 3D platforming mario's for advancements in those areas.
AzaK
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(04-05-2012, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

Interesting that Edge would tease a Miyamoto Mii.
I doubt its Tomadachi Collection so an interview is likely. And its not unreasonable to expect Wii U teases.

I bet if it is a miyamoto interview he will once again say not to expect miracles with the Wii U's power and everyone will take that to mean its P60 level and well start this madness all over again.
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 07:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

Pretty interesting post, thanks for sharing, do you have the link? I'm in the mood to follow some Wii U tech disscusion outside of GAF =P
HeySeuss
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(04-05-2012, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nibel

That next issue of Edge could be a goldmine for this thread

Between the investor meeting and PAX and that mag, this thread will be locked and the next one halfway to being locked by the end of the month. Then 30 days prior to e3 the thread will move so fast with leaks and rumors you won't be able to keep up. Can't wait.
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by DragonSworne

Fair enough, but your criticism ignores the fact NSMBWii game mechanics are different and more mature than the DS version.

But art style and simplicity of the NSMB is the trademark for the game series. You'll need to look at the 3D platforming mario's for advancements in those areas.

I realize that; there are restraints on every genre. I simply would like to see, like I mentioned before, a thematic change on the lines of the first Super Mario World to the second. My criticism is mostly on the art-style though, you're right.
magash
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(04-05-2012, 07:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

Pretty interesting post, thanks for sharing, do you have the link? I'm in the mood to follow some Wii U tech disscusion outside of GAF =P

Here you go
Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cabbie

Edit: Didn't mean to insinuate direct port. But it's not a paradigm shift either, at least in my humble opinion.

And that's a shame.

Despite the somewhat bland art, NSMB Wii was a great game and put NSMB DS to shame. Nice level design, plenty of challenge, the return of the Koopa Kids, new Airship stages, World 9 bonus, one of the best Bowser battles of all time (which if IIRC based on something Miyamoto hinted at in an interview was also a tribute to Giant Bowser battle from Yoshi's Island ), I could go on. Heck, it even redeemed Bowser Jr with the tight new Koopa Clown car battles. Sure it's not a game changer for the series but it's still a AAA sequel.
AzaK
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(04-05-2012, 07:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

Well that snippet you quoted states that there's is a performance benefit so that's a good thing IMO. The wii couldn't do any of the modern shader stuff, but Wii U will. That said it will all come down to whether developers put the effort in to use its unique features and I imagine if Nintendo are talking closely with Epic and Crytek that their engines at least will support the features.

In summary, I'm not worried....yet :)
Azure J
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(04-05-2012, 07:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

Shit just got real. *hyped*
BY2K
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(04-05-2012, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by HylianTom

Nope.. he made a Wii U rumor parody thread. It was pretty deliberate. Damn shame.

Can I see that?
-Pyromaniac-
(04-05-2012, 07:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.
schuelma
Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
(04-05-2012, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.


Definitely makes sense. The proof will be in Nintendo's first part efforts at E3. Should be fun.
guek
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(04-05-2012, 08:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

interresting. thanks for posting that :-)
BY2K
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(04-05-2012, 08:01 PM)
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Nevermind, found it.

He was brave to do that.
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 08:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

Despite the somewhat bland art, NSMB Wii was a great game and put NSMB DS to shame. Nice level design, plenty of challenge, the return of the Koopa Kids, new Airship stages, World 9 bonus, one of the best Bowser battles of all time (which if IIRC based on something Miyamoto hinted at in an interview was also a tribute to Giant Bowser battle from Yoshi's Island ), I could go on. Heck, it even redeemed Bowser Jr with the tight new Koopa Clown car battles. Sure it's not a game changer for the series but it's still a AAA sequel.

You are also right, objectively it is a great game. I'm just expressing my hope that things will be mixed up for Wii U.
Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 08:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cabbie

You are also right, objectively it is a great game. I'm just expressing my hope that things will be mixed up for Wii U.

I agree, it'd be nice if they changed it up and went with a more hand drawn SMW/YI style. Probably gonna be awhile though due to NSMB Mii.
BD1
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(04-05-2012, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

I agree, it'd be nice if they changed it up and went with a more hand drawn SMW/YI style. Probably gonna be awhile though due to NSMB Mii.

I still hold out hope the rumor that Good Feel was working on a new Yoshi's Island is true.
ozfunghi
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(04-05-2012, 08:26 PM)
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So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

Nice certainly (I like the way GC games look), but possibly the weakest of the generation performance wise (bar the 1998 Dreamcast).

Well, everything we're hearing places Wuu either on a par with PS360, or below.

etc...
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Artoon did well on their second attempt at the IP. Largely due to using alot of the assets from the original, but it was still good.

Whoever makes it, I just want to see those colorful crayon visuals again. :)
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

Just like whatever site, they have good posters and bad posters.
I found that GC/Xbox/PS2 comparison illarious too.
Agent Unknown
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(04-05-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by BD1

I still hold out hope the rumor that Good Feel was working on a new Yoshi's Island is true.

Yeah, I think it's been about a year since that rumour first floated and then it just kinda went nowhere and disappeared. IIRC it was supposed to be on 3DS, if it's true I hope it was delayed to be put on Wii U.
-Pyromaniac-
(04-05-2012, 08:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

etc...

b3D definitely has more knowledgeable posters than other forums, including here. A forum can't have idiots? I've yet to see one.
AceBandage
Banned
(04-05-2012, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

once again no different than what was being said by the more knowledgeable users here like BG and wsippel and whatnot.

but good to see more knowledge on it.

Yup. That was pretty much said earlier in the thread. Still don't know if I agree with it, but I'm sure that Nintendo is going to work much closer with many thrlird parties so that they understand how to use the system better. We'be already seen them do this with Ubisoft.
BD1
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(04-05-2012, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

Yeah, I think it's been about a year since that rumour first floated and then it just kinda went nowhere and disappeared. IIRC it was supposed to be on 3DS, if it's true I hope it was delayed to be put on Wii U.

It was definitely a part of the big Pre-TGS rumor list, where most everything ended up true. Yoshi's Island was one of the few that didn't surface, sadly.
StevieP
Member
(04-05-2012, 08:37 PM)

Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

b3D definitely has more knowledgeable posters than other forums, including here. A forum can't have idiots? I've yet to see one.

There are a lot of cross-posters here and there as well (specialguy/Rangers, French/french toast, bg, wsippel, me lol etc) but I was quoting a person that has reliably leaked things in the past. It matches what wsippel and bg have speculated, so it might mean something.
Rösti
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(04-05-2012, 08:41 PM)
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A bit more on the exhibitor site, these have been added:

http://www.mapyourshow.com/shows/index.cfm?Show_ID=E312

Action - Nintendo Wii U

TECMO KOEI AMERICA Corporation

Most likely Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, nothing interesting really.

Peripherals - Nintendo Wii U

ViviTouch - Feel The Game

Now this is rather interesting, seeing what Artificial Muscle's ViviTouch technology is.

Utilizing a revolutionary new component, ViviTouch™ is the first product to intensify the experience of mobile gaming by evolving it: No longer just a pretty picture frame, a ViviTouch™-enabled device allows you to feel explosions, aerial battles and uppercuts like you were meant to.

To summarize, it's haptics. Nothing truly revolutionary but could give the Wii U Remote a nice boost. G4 has an article and a video from CES 2012 about this: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...ure-of-rumble/

http://www.vivitouch.com/technology.php

Racing - Nintendo Wii U

Maximum Family Games LLC

Maximum Family Games is, as probably heard on the name, a budget developer similar to Game Factory. For Wii, they've developed the following titles:
  • Burger Bot
  • Canada Hunt
  • Kart Racer
  • Maximum Racing: Crash Car Racer
  • Maximum Racing: Drag & Stock Racer
  • Maximum Racing: GP Classic Racing
  • Sprint Cars
  • Truck Racer
  • Veggy World
They are also behind Hello Kitty Online Premium Edition for PC. As for Wii U, it is most likely a Wii port, I don't see them putting any greater attention to anything developed especially for Wii U, seeing how graphics appear to be no priority in the games they developed for Wii.

http://www.maximumfamilygames.com/
Christine
(04-05-2012, 08:45 PM)
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what what what haptics?
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-05-2012, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

A bit more on the exhibitor site, these have been added:

http://www.mapyourshow.com/shows/index.cfm?Show_ID=E312

Action - Nintendo Wii U

TECMO KOEI AMERICA Corporation

Most likely Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, nothing interesting really.

Peripherals - Nintendo Wii U

ViviTouch - Feel The Game

Now this is rather interesting, seeing what Artificial Muscle's ViviTouch technology is.



To summarize, it's haptics. Nothing truly revolutionary but could give the Wii U Remote a nice boost. G4 has an article and a video from CES 2012 about this: [

Rosti, you are quickly becoming a favourite of mine. Thanks for this.

You are all awesome, though. ;) <3
guek
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(04-05-2012, 08:47 PM)
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I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 08:48 PM)
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Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.
neeksleep
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(04-05-2012, 08:49 PM)
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Utilizing a revolutionary new component, ViviTouch™ is the first product to intensify the experience of mobile gaming by evolving it: No longer just a pretty picture frame, a ViviTouch™-enabled device allows you to feel explosions, aerial battles and uppercuts like you were meant to.

Huh...
wonderdung
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(04-05-2012, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

So, these guys on B3D... they're basically no better than Gfaqs posters but just pretend to know what they're talking about?

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.
nordique
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(04-05-2012, 08:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I'm not sure if it's been stated already (since this thread moves way too fast) but what wsippel has been saying about fixed function units in addition to your standard modern GPU hardware seems to be true here, if a reputable B3D poster is to be believed:



I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.


Good post, I hope this doesn't go unnoticed :P

Some key insight there, especially the notion of a similar design philosophy to flipper. That is hugely exciting.
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(04-05-2012, 08:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by wonderdung

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.

So it's NeoGaf?
walking fiend
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(04-05-2012, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

Wii U having haptic feedback, maybe that's the secret feature.

I can't think of anything else:
http://www.vivitouch.com/demos.php
Oddduck
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(04-05-2012, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.

Maybe Nintendo is realizing that the touchscreen controller idea isn't interesting enough to sell to casuals so they will try to spice it up a bit.
El Chupacabra
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(04-05-2012, 08:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.

It would allow (in theory) to make it easier for the player to distinguish digital buttons, imagine a FPS where you have various digital buttons (e.g. for different weapons), so haptic feedback could make it easier for the player to find the right button without looking at the screen.

I don't see it happen though.

Edit:

Originally Posted by TunaLover

This haptic thing must be expensive...?

I think it was expensive, but I'm not so sure anymore. Doesn't Samsung have cell phones with haptic touch (somewhere in Asia) already (and there've been others earlier) ? Anyone know the price of those ?
Last edited by El Chupacabra; 04-05-2012 at 09:02 PM.
TunaLover
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(04-05-2012, 08:58 PM)
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This haptic thing must be expensive...?
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(04-05-2012, 08:58 PM)
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Vitality Haptics
AlStrong
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(04-05-2012, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by wonderdung

B3D is basically the armchair quarterbacks of the game industry along with a sprinkling of people who know what they're talking about and no way to tell the difference between which type of poster is which.

You sound like you were banned from there.


I keed. :p
Bagu
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(04-05-2012, 09:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics.

Take New Love Plus to its logical extreme.
Last edited by Bagu; 04-05-2012 at 09:10 PM.
Hoo-doo
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(04-05-2012, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElTopo

It would allow (in theory) to make it easier for the player to distinguish digital buttons, imagine a FPS where you have various digital buttons (e.g. for different weapons), so haptic feedback could make it easier for the player to find the right button without looking at the screen.

I don't see it happen though.

I thought that was what it was, but I think this Vivitouch is a completely different technology.
It's basically a more advanced rumble, that can accurately mimic certain movements and vibrations, more precise than the simple vibrating motors found in phones and other console controllers.

The haptic tech that was rumored to go in the next iPad for example, created by Senseg, was designed to make the touchscreen feel like any texture, so indeed buttons, or rough surfaces like parchment or stone.
Last edited by Hoo-doo; 04-05-2012 at 09:04 PM.
walking fiend
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(04-05-2012, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

This haptic thing must be expensive...?

Yes;

but now I guess there's really no reason for it to be used 'integrated' in the controller:
http://www.amazon.com/Mophie-Pulse-G.../dp/B004S0SIXO

It maybe just that it is compatible with the Utab

Bought this to share among three iPods for my 3 kids. May need to get another 2!
The hardware is well designed and built (handy little on/off switch on the back is nice) and battery status indicator is welcome.
Seems to have pretty long battery life - so far battery life on Pulse is as long as iPod battery life.
Effects work through sound output so it can be distracting with certain games that have background music - if you can turn the music off it is better.
Works best with games with sound effects that mimic the action.
Pros: Not buzzy like some built-in effects from iPod motor and provides much more "solid" response - really feels like something moving.
Cons: limited by game design. Needs to have more effects built into games, instead of just sound output.

It is really noticeable when you turn if off and play the same game without it - feels like you've lost a sense! This should be built into every touch device!

Forsaken82
(04-05-2012, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

I don't understand the appeal of haptics. It's neat, but not something I'm clamoring for.

Why complain about something that would only enhance the experience? I can't really see Haptic putting a damper on anything so it would seem only natural to be excited about something like this.
Thraktor
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(04-05-2012, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

I understand it's probably being done to remain backward compatible with Wii (and GC, through digital download emulation) TEVs but a mistake in my opinion - third parties and middleware makers likely won't give a damn.

The GPU shouldn't need any fixed-function units to handle BC, as a sufficiently capable programmable shader architecture shouldn't have much trouble emulating the TEVs.

Furthermore, fixed functionality does not necessarily equal bad. When you put fixed function hardware on a GPU, you're trading off versatility for efficiency. That fixed function unit is going to do whatever is does much more effectively than a fully programmable unit, but of course do everything else a whole lot worse (if at all). Hence, fixed function hardware makes a lot of sense for things which pretty much every game does, like lighting (which I had also suggested earlier as a good use of fixed function hardware).

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