[duckroll]

They only provided one video update though, that lousy Hard Drive segment. The stretch goals have been poorly articulated and sometimes poorly chosen, they just had the massive benefit of being able to promise Chris Avellone halfway through and that pretty much made the project unstoppable.

To be fair, DFA was part adventure game, part documentary series with a professional crew on board for the video stuff. It's not surprising that they had way more video updates and done in a much better way.

[Ignis Fatuus]

To be fair, DFA was part adventure game, part documentary series with a professional crew on board for the video stuff. It's not surprising that they had way more video updates and done in a much better way.

Yeah but it's only been a couple days and Shadowrun already has Wasteland 2 beaten in the video department, no professional crew required. Fargo has spent most of his time doing interviews with every outlet he can, which might be good for piquing the interest of new backers, but there simply hasn't been very good communication with the existing base.

[kswiston]

Doublefine brought Kickstarter to the attention of gamers, and showed developers that it can be a viable funding source, but Fargo and inXile started the Kick-it-Forward movement, and seem more interested in cultivating the crowd-sourced funding model.

The fact that Fargo pledged 5% of Wasteland 2's profits to other Kickstarters, and convinced many other projects to do the same, gets him more respect from me than what Doublefine did.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Doublefine brought Kickstarter to the attention of gamers, and showed developers that it can be a viable funding source, but Fargo and inXile started the Kick-it-Forward movement, and seem more interested in cultivating the crowd-sourced funding model. The fact that Fargo pledged 5% of Wasteland 2's profits to other Kickstarters, and convinced many other projects to do the same, gets him more respect from me than what Doublefine did.

We're talking about things that Obsidian should emulate for their Kickstarter.

[charlequin]

They only provided one video update though, that lousy Hard Drive segment.

That's... what I said?

The stretch goals have been poorly articulated and sometimes poorly chosen

That's also what I said! Although I think you're being overdramatic about this. Most of the stretch goals have been both straightforward and obviously appealing.

[Ignis Fatuus]

That's... what I said?

The one was in italics because it's really beyond minimalistic considering the lack of hard design details which, fair enough, may not yet exist. But that in itself can be problematic and I hope that Obsidian nails their design down before attempting their Kickstarter. A lot of other people have praised the clarity of the Shadowrun design pitch and a lot of people have also criticized the lack of communication for Wasteland 2. These are hardly novel observations.

I think you're being overdramatic about this.

I really don't get this. I'm not sure how this could possibly be construed as dramatic, I've simply outlined things about the inXile pitch that I don't want Obsidian to repeat. "Overdramatic" is a pretty extreme charge to level in the same thread where people were claiming to confuse Wasteland 2 with Modern Warfare 4.

[kswiston]

We're talking about things that Obsidian should emulate for their Kickstarter.

Honestly, I think the pedigree of the series/franchise/genre being pitched and the pedigree of the developer fronting the Kickstarter are the two largest determining factors of success. After that is the rewards. Then way down the list is stuff like the quality and frequency of your update videos.

I think the Kick-it-foward initiative and especially the addition of Avellone to the project brought them more funding than video updates would have.

[EviLore]

Oh, everything about the Wasteland 2 kickstarter and how it's been managed has felt like amateur hour to me. It's been successful due to the IP being resurrected, the idea of a hardcore isometric RPG with passion and talented individuals behind it, and most recently Chris Motherfuckin' Avellone jumping on board.

Everything else, from the kickstarter page itself, the video production, the vague updates coupled with detailed interviews given to obscure websites and not linked into the kickstarter, the hastily written backstory snippet, the "social" namedrop, the "WE'LL ADD MORE DEPTH GUYS MORE DEPTH" assertions for $500,000 milestone increments...none of it inspires confidence. But that's okay, because we still know that talented people are going to be passionately composing a new old school RPG, and ultimately that's all that matters.

It's just definitely not maximizing their Kickstarter revenue.

[subversus]

"the hastily written backstory snippet" is taken from the manual to Wasteland but whatever, I agree that it could be handled a bit better with some video updates at least.

[EviLore]

"the hastily written backstory snippet" is taken from the manual to Wasteland but whatever, I agree that it could be handled a bit better with some video updates at least.

I missed that, then, but with that context it would've been fine. Without that context, it came off as, "is Brian Fargo trying to write seriously here himself and failing, or what? Because it's not up to any sort of professional writing standard to be showing off to current and potential backers."

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

... Everything else, from the kickstarter page itself, the video production, the vague updates coupled with detailed interviews given to obscure websites and not linked into the kickstarter, the hastily written backstory snippet... It's just definitely not maximizing their Kickstarter revenue.

Also brings up the question of what was he pitching to the publishers, did he have no art, story out line, anything he could have put on line to drive up hype.

[Versipellis]

Oh, everything about the Wasteland 2 kickstarter and how it's been managed has felt like amateur hour to me.

This makes me think that maybe this slight inability to "sell" himself might had hurt Fargo's recent attempts to convince publisher to fund his games.
But, then again, I know nothing about this kind of programmer/publisher relationships.

[subversus]

Frankly speaking I have doubts that inXile will be able to produce something great in 18 months given their output but if we don't risk with our money we will never find out. Also great people are on board. I'm just worried that Fargo lost some momentum/mojo he had in 80-90s.

[DTKT]

Frankly speaking I have doubts that inXile will be able to produce something great in 18 months given their output but if we don't risk with our money we will never find out. Also great people are on board. I'm just worried that Fargo lost some momentum/mojo he had in 80-90s.

That's the inherent risk with Kickstarter.

The output with Wasteland/DFA/Shadowrun will probably shape the next wave of projects. If they fail, then there is a good chance that it will scare off a potential backers.

[charlequin]

I really don't get this.

Bad word choice on my part.

[subversus]

I'm sure that Double Fine will deliver because they have been doing it for the last 10 years. Also Shadowrun devs made a pretty good shooter even though it wasn't the game the fans wanted. InXile made a mediocre dungeon crawler with good production values and it's not encouraging. But I admit that this kind of game may not be what Fargo and his team do well.

[EviLore]

You just need good communication and presentation skills in front with anything like this. Throughout, it feels like Brian Fargo's just doing everything related to the kickstarter himself, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if he has a team backing him.

[Grayman]

I would expect the next wave of larger kick starters (obsidian?) to be planned out professionally and have a lot of videos and mockup screens ready to go at funding intervals.

[Corto]

I already said that yesterday but I think that this amateurish feel of inXile Kickstarter is mainly due to its great success. It feels that Fargo was honestly surprised by the extent of their success and had almost nothing prepared for that event. Avellone/Obsidian involvement even felt more incidental than planned.

[Lasthope106]

I keep repeating this over and over, but the best thing InXile can do is to post a 30 min interview with Brian and Chris talking about what makes CRPGs great. That's all they need at this point in the kickstarter.

The first piece of concept art is being criticized for being too brown, but to me it felt unique and cool. It has this "The Road" (the book - not the movie) feel to it. Fallout 3 was perhaps the most depressing game I've ever played, but it had this black comedy undertone beneath the skin. Wasteland should just go for bleak and depressing.

[DTKT]

I would expect the next wave of larger kick starters (obsidian?) to be planned out professionally and have a lot of videos and mockup screens ready to go at funding intervals.

Indeed. As studios figure out what exactly pushes funding, they might concentrate on that. I mean, even the concept art release did wonders for them.

One more video could also help.

[akira28]

Synergy. Fargo was always an exec more than a game guy. He's building the team and getting the tools together to make game magic. He's also been out of the game for a few seasons. So I wouldn't expect him to be on top of this whole social media promotion thing, which is fine because that's not why I'm here anyway. He just needs to keep his people on task and focused and try to help harness the spirit of their earlier creations. He needs to do some hiring for PR and marketing, and once they have some $$$ he can do that.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Bad word choice on my part.

S'cool.

He needs to do some hiring for PR and marketing, and once they have some $$$ he can do that.

Wouldn't hold my breath:

One thing you will notice in that list of potential jobs above is that nowhere in that list do you see ‘Marketing Lady’ or ‘PR Guy’. That is because we don’t have these positions, nor do we plan to hire them. We want to spend the money on the game, and only the game.

[akira28]

That's coo. I can understand that marketing as it exists today and PR has left a foul taste in his mouth. Like expired hobodogs left out in the sun.

But he will need to ask someone to do double duty at some point in time. It's not his strong suit, and it does need to be done. Maybe just on a lower scale than normal.

[DiscoJer]

Synergy. Fargo was always an exec more than a game guy. He's building the team and getting the tools together to make game magic. He's also been out of the game for a few seasons. So I wouldn't expect him to be on top of this whole social media promotion thing, which is fine because that's not why I'm here anyway. He just needs to keep his people on task and focused and try to help harness the spirit of their earlier creations. He needs to do some hiring for PR and marketing, and once they have some $$$ he can do that.

Why do they?

He wanted $900,000 to make the game. He's got $2.2 million, probably will end up at $2.5 million or so. He doesn't even seem to be sure what to do with money past that.

This place has a habit of turning everything into a popularity contest. The whole point of this was to make a very niche and specific sort of game for a specific audience (old school RPG fans) by getting them to fund it ahead of time. And he's succeeded, even if it ended today.

[akira28]

Image and success. I want the game to do better than just well. That's just me. Many of us already have our game coming to us, but after all that hard work, it would be nice to have some decent ads like you'd see in Computer Gaming World, some good pimping of the new game when it's done to the mags and sites, a good pitch. It doesn't need to be on par with the AAA people with the 'all marketing and no game' approach. But if there's going to be a Wasteland 3, or a new resurgence of this game genre or even just uncorrupted non-corporate throwback development, this game would have to do well. An appropriate public relations program would help it go beyond.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

You just need good communication and presentation skills in front with anything like this. Throughout, it feels like Brian Fargo's just doing everything related to the kickstarter himself, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if he has a team backing him.

Weisman explaining what Shadowrun would look like was fantastic to me.

Also:

$2,250,154.

[Pachterballs]

We're talking about things that Obsidian should emulate for their Kickstarter.

that should go to its own thread thank.

I keep repeating this over and over, but the best thing InXile can do is to post a 30 min interview with Brian and Chris talking about what makes CRPGs great. That's all they need at this point in the kickstarter.

yup agreed. but the art is a great thing too. It can be plastered on the net + twittered etc el.

so yeah

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Why do they? He wanted $900,000 to make the game. He's got $2.2 million, probably will end up at $2.5 million or so. He doesn't even seem to be sure what to do with money past that. This place has a habit of turning everything into a popularity contest. The whole point of this was to make a very niche and specific sort of game for a specific audience (old school RPG fans) by getting them to fund it ahead of time. And he's succeeded, even if it ended today.

One of the biggest upsides to these KS projects is that the Devs will keep almost all of the money from sales, this is much better then the current situation for them (look at how Obsidian got fucked w/ New Vegas).

So healthy sales of these games would be the a further enactment of change that KS has hinting towards, and while you might think niche means the people who care will find and buy it themselves that not really the case, you still need to advertise niche products, just in a more careful way then blockbuster games do.

[zkylon]

Obsidian could do themselves some good by preparing some art and design work prior to the Kickstarter, then uploading it as it goes. Mockups, concept art, all of that should be pretty light cost...

[Ignis Fatuus]

Obsidian could do themselves some good by preparing some art and design work prior to the Kickstarter, then uploading it as it goes. Mockups, concept art, all of that should be pretty light cost...

Yeah. It doesn't have to be like The Banner Saga but it helps if you have a clearly articulated vision and something to show. I assume that Obsidian will be going for a new IP, it makes the most sense for them financially. Either that or Torment 2.

[Durante]

Why do they? He wanted $900,000 to make the game. He's got $2.2 million, probably will end up at $2.5 million or so. He doesn't even seem to be sure what to do with money past that. This place has a habit of turning everything into a popularity contest. The whole point of this was to make a very niche and specific sort of game for a specific audience (old school RPG fans) by getting them to fund it ahead of time. And he's succeeded, even if it ended today.

I agree. I don't see why these projects should have to exceed their goals by more than 100%, and I don't really want to see my money spent on marketing or PR.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I agree. I don't see why these projects should have to exceed their goals by more than 100%, and I don't really want to see my money spent on marketing or PR.

Because if these games do well the profit goes right to the Devs.

[Durante]

Because if these games do well the profit goes right to the Devs.

Then the devs should pay for marketing, if they think it is necessary. We pay to get the game made.

[Joseph Merrick]

Image and success. I want the game to do better than just well. That's just me. Many of us already have our game coming to us, but after all that hard work, it would be nice to have some decent ads like you'd see in Computer Gaming World, some good pimping of the new game when it's done to the mags and sites, a good pitch. It doesn't need to be on par with the AAA people with the 'all marketing and no game' approach. But if there's going to be a Wasteland 3, or a new resurgence of this game genre or even just uncorrupted non-corporate throwback development, this game would have to do well. An appropriate public relations program would help it go beyond.

what in the world? we're not helping them sell a game, we're helping them make a game.

Then the devs should pay for marketing, if they think it is necessary. We pay to get the game made.

yep. I couldn't give less of a fuck how well this game sells. it's been funded. and if they don't sell a single copy above the 46k they've already sold, that's their problem not mine.

I would pull my money from this immediatly if fargo started talking about hiring pr people and selling the game.

[akira28]

what in the world? we're not helping them sell a game, we're helping them make a game. yep. I couldn't give less of a fuck how well this game sells. it's been funded. and if they don't sell a single copy above the 46k they've already sold, that's their problem not mine. I would pull my money from this immediatly if fargo started talking about hiring pr people and selling the game.

That's all you. I wouldn't pull my money for anything. I'm in it for the long haul, and I want this to be as successful as possible. I don't just want a "game" out of this. I want the old school to come back. That's why they can have my money. And if that means they give someone $20K to figure out a proper advertising strategy to help increase exposure and to boost sales and to ultimately make the major game publishers look like shit with mud in their eyes, fuck yes. Do it. It's not a full time job, and it's not a lot of money for a lot of output.

You don't give a fuck? I do. I want those assholes to pay. I want them to regret not giving this game a chance and I want them to feel the sting for making the computer game industry come to this point. I want them to hurt for not making this game and for not making other games because they didn't fit their modern market strategy, even though they knew it's what their customers wanted.

[Lancehead]

I wouldn't mind if some of the kickstarter money went towards marketing. If the game is addressed exclusively towards 'old school gamers' who have funded, then there wouldn't be much need for marketing, because there'd be direct communication channels. But I want this game to be introduced to the wider audience, who have no previous experience with games like these, to help expand the fanbase.

[MightyHedgehog]

The first piece of concept art is being criticized for being too brown, but to me it felt unique and cool. It has this "The Road" (the book - not the movie) feel to it. Fallout 3 was perhaps the most depressing game I've ever played, but it had this black comedy undertone beneath the skin. Wasteland should just go for bleak and depressing.

It's funny that you say this, as I feel that the original Wasteland is actually far more funny than anything in Fallout 3 (or any of the Fallouts). Fallout really gets its best bits, and especially its black humor, from Wasteland.

As for the last leg of the KS, I think they'll go for a video and such. Sure, they could have handled things so much better than they have, but this is early days for this sort of thing and I'm sure there's a lot of spinning plates balancing right now, even before the KS pledging period is done. Point is, they've done a great job on their KS that has quickly been done better by others following on their heels, just as they've evolved and refined how DF handled theirs.

[Acidote]

I finally did my job and backed it, there's no reason to wait for the last day.

[duckroll]

It's funny that you say this, as I feel that the original Wasteland is actually far more funny than anything in Fallout 3 (or any of the Fallouts). Fallout really gets its best bits, and especially its black humor, from Wasteland. As for the last leg of the KS, I think they'll go for a video and such. Sure, they could have handled things so much better than they have, but this is early days for this sort of thing and I'm sure there's a lot of spinning plates balancing right now, even before the KS pledging period is done. Point is, they've done a great job on their KS that has quickly been done better by others following on their heels, just as they've evolved and refined how DF handled theirs.

Yeah I think it's pretty telling when Avellone does a homage in Fallout NV to Wasteland, what we got was Old World Blues. The comedy aspects is definitely one of things Wasteland is known for, as opposed to just bleakness.

[fizzelopeguss]

making a robot orgasm was certainly mindfuck worthy.

[Miletius]

Just chipped in $ 50. I am looking forward to my premium, boxed copy.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I want those assholes to pay.

... for what? For not greenlighting a game you want? That's hardly revenge-worthy.

yep. I couldn't give less of a fuck how well this game sells. it's been funded. and if they don't sell a single copy above the 46k they've already sold, that's their problem not mine.

Have fun complaining about how nobody makes games for you anymore when it doesn't sell.

This is the apathetic attitude that leads nobody to take gaming or gamers seriously.

I would pull my money from this immediatly if fargo started talking about hiring pr people and selling the game.

Because then he has totally sold out to The Man, am I right?

[Aselith]

... for what? For not greenlighting a game you want? That's hardly revenge-worthy. Have fun complaining about how nobody makes games for you anymore when it doesn't sell.

They never were before that so what would be lost?

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

They never were before that so what would be lost?

A possible resurgence, a new model of game creation and distribution that sits between the big budget and the tiny indy scene.

[Zeliard]

I agree. I don't see why these projects should have to exceed their goals by more than 100%, and I don't really want to see my money spent on marketing or PR.

It has nothing to do with what a project "has" to do or not do, but rather small things they could easily be doing to maximize the money they're getting in, which will only benefit everybody in the long run.

And it doesn't really have anything to do with hiring a marketing or PR team, as akira and others have been saying. Some of the stuff they could have done are just fairly basic things that you don't exactly need a degree in marketing for. There are smaller Kickstarters with smaller teams that have communicated their vision more effectively.

[zkylon]

If anyone wants to wallpaperize the concept art, they uploaded a bunch of sizes here: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/press

[GuitarAtomik]

what in the world? we're not helping them sell a game, we're helping them make a game. yep. I couldn't give less of a fuck how well this game sells. it's been funded. and if they don't sell a single copy above the 46k they've already sold, that's their problem not mine. I would pull my money from this immediatly if fargo started talking about hiring pr people and selling the game.

They never were before that so what would be lost?

Do you want to see more of these types of games or not? Because if they're successful (sales-wise) you will. If they're not you won't. Simple as that.

[Aselith]

A possible resurgence, a new model of game creation and distribution that sits between the big budget and the tiny indy scene.

I just want the game so that's what I funded. If the devs want to make it a call to arms, they're going to have to take a little risk.

And GuitarAtomik, no I don't want them to put my money into getting profits. That part is where they have to start taking a little risk.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

A possible resurgence, a new model of game creation and distribution that sits between the big budget and the tiny indy scene.

It really frightens me that some gamers don't think the Kickstarter fad will die off if the Gamestarters don't do well.

Actually, it frightens me in general that some gamers don't care about if their favorite dev makes money or not.