[pigeon]

I tout it was kind of too dark for the product and emphasizing how much he lords over his creative types instead of joining in on the fun. Surprised other people were into it as much as Ginsberg's, I thought they were just gassing Don up.

Stan is always professionally unopinionated in front of Don. I think Peggy might've said something, but Ginsberg got in first with the nasty jab about Don not writing any more. Check the look Peggy gives him, after which she immediately tells Don it's great. Remember the end of The Suitcase -- sometimes Don wants a partner, but sometimes he just wants a mom. Don's idea is obviously supposed to be terrible -- we know it because Don himself says so when he's recording it.

I liked this episode, but Betty's last line really was a clunker. Honestly, I think the stuff people are criticizing for being obvious would've been much less noticeable if Betty's line had been trimmed.

Really kind of disappointed with how little Peggy has really had to do this season -- one-third of an episode devoted to her (awesome), several bits where she contrasts to the main focus of the episode (mostly Megan), and a lot of sitting around being pleased with her current lot. I hope this season ends with something happening for her -- honestly, everybody would benefit at this point if she was creative director and Don got kicked upstairs. And Dawn hasn't done anything either, now that I notice. I was hoping her arrival would mean more discussion of racism -- it's 1967, after all. Well, still a few episodes to come.

edit: crap, it's still '66. Well, here's hoping she gets more to do next year, I guess.

[Ignatz Mouse]

Did Henry correct Betty about that? I must have missed it.

IIRC, he said people didn't care about that sort of thing anymore.

Edit: pigeon, it's late 66.

[Gunloc]

Something I thought about before, but forgot to mention... Megan's friend is auditioning for Dark Shadows, right? (It was the episode title after all.) And if so, considering she got the part, is she supposed to be representing a real person?

[legend166]

I don't know, maybe I'm just misreading it. But if someone came out today with a product that was supposed to be 'family friendly' and appealing to the kids; and then based it around the adventures of the devil in hell, I think it would be a bit of a disaster. Like, think of 7/11 trying to sell slurpees by showing how it's cooling down the devil. :S

Also, Betty comforting Henry about his job was just about the nicest thing she's done in seasons. Too bad she's a horrible, horrible mother to go along with it. But it was nice to see the writers pull back on Betty in 100% bitch mode just for a minute or two.

[Klocker]

This show is damn lucky that the girl who plays Sally is actually a good actress. Since they likely casted her all those years ago for her cute face, I assume acting chops didn't really come into consideration until she had to tackle more significant scenes. It could've been as much of a disaster as Dexter's step-daughter's cringe-worthy performances in Season 5. Now interested to see what she does when she grows up. Hope she doesn't crash and burn like other child actors.

interview on ITAS said she has been on camera since she was 5mos old and was talented and mature beyond her years with other talents. so lucky yea, but good choosing as well.

[Wool]

I don't know, maybe I'm just misreading it. But if someone came out today with a product that was supposed to be 'family friendly' and appealing to the kids; and then based it around the adventures of the devil in hell, I think it would be a bit of a disaster. Like, think of 7/11 trying to sell slurpees by showing how it's cooling down the devil. :S Also, Betty comforting Henry about his job was just about the nicest thing she's done in seasons. Too bad she's a horrible, horrible mother to go along with it. But it was nice to see the writers pull back on Betty in 100% bitch mode just for a minute or two.

I think this is a great example of how it could work and be family friendly:


Anyways, I don't know why people are saying Don acted like a child in the elevator with Ginsburg. Don has years and years of excellent advertising campaigns under his belt. Ginsburg hasn't worked at the place for more than a couple months. To act superior and insubordinate to your direct boss that early in your career is a mistake no matter how you put it. Didn't he say "I feel bad for you" or something? That is a pretty open insult.

[saunderez]

Anyways, I don't know why people are saying Don acted like a child in the elevator with Ginsburg. Don has years and years of excellent advertising campaigns under his belt. Ginsburg hasn't worked at the place for more than a couple months. To act superior and insubordinate to your direct boss that early in your career is a mistake no matter how you put it. Didn't he say "I feel bad for you" or something? That is a pretty open insult.

I agree, Don never took crap from Peggy when she cried about not getting recognition. Remember the "that's what the money is for!" speech? Ginsberg was being a dick.

[jaxword]

I don't know, maybe I'm just misreading it. But if someone came out today with a product that was supposed to be 'family friendly' and appealing to the kids; and then based it around the adventures of the devil in hell, I think it would be a bit of a disaster. Like, think of 7/11 trying to sell slurpees by showing how it's cooling down the devil. :S

This was a comic in the '50s:





It was in the '60s-'80s period that religious fanatics started to take over the government and spread into media.

Now, 30 years later, things somehow seem to be MORE conservative since everyone screams persecution and how offended their religious beliefs say they are.

[ghstwrld]

Anyways, I don't know why people are saying Don acted like a child in the elevator with Ginsburg. Don has years and years of excellent advertising campaigns under his belt. Ginsburg hasn't worked at the place for more than a couple months. To act superior and insubordinate to your direct boss that early in your career is a mistake no matter how you put it. Didn't he say "I feel bad for you" or something? That is a pretty open insult.

Well, you know, Don could have addressed it professionally, and admonished/reprimanded Ginsberg without resorting to a childish and snide comment, pretending as if he hasn't been pressed by him for days and working behind the scenes to outdo him and his work in front of their coworkers.

[Trent Strong]

Shit just got real this episode. Also, I swear that devil ad is based on a real ad.

[Foliorum Viridum]

I don't think it's any shock the worst episode of the season so far is one that is focused largely on Betty being on a diet. Yawn.

At least she conflicted some sort of conflict in the Draper house, which was interesting. Sally and Megan have an interesting relationship going on.

[Neverender]

Well, you know, Don could have addressed it professionally, and admonished/reprimanded Ginsberg without resorting to a childish and snide comment, pretending as if he hasn't been pressed by him for days and working behind the scenes to outdo him and his work in front of their coworkers.

Also he could have actually used the work that the team agreed was most suitable instead of selfishly swapping it for his own.

[Salvor.Hardin]

Anyways, I don't know why people are saying Don acted like a child in the elevator with Ginsburg. Don has years and years of excellent advertising campaigns under his belt. Ginsburg hasn't worked at the place for more than a couple months. To act superior and insubordinate to your direct boss that early in your career is a mistake no matter how you put it. Didn't he say "I feel bad for you" or something? That is a pretty open insult.

Yep. But at the same time I feel like Don isn't completely comfortable having done what he did, which is why he felt compelled to grace Ginsberg with a reply rather than sneer and fire him the next day. He hasn't adjusted to the role of an executive and still likes to be directly involved in the process, but anyone who has worked at a firm knows that a partner takes credit for his subordinate's work and rarely tries to cram his own into the pipe.

Which is why Roger's handling of Ginsberg was the perfect depiction of how an executive deals with his juniors and a good juxtaposition to Don. They both had essentially parallel stories this episode, and both got what they wanted, but Don pissed off Ginsberg, whereas Roger simply took the credit.

Love how this show can employ various layers to build its narrative.

[Bootaaay]

I love how they had me almost feeling sympathetic for Betty and her situation, the echo Henry's line about "backing the wrong horse" has on her past with Don, and then through her manipulations of Sally, any sympathy for the character is erased. It was wonderful to see her machinations blow up in her face. They did something similar with Pete this season too, and I think it's remarkable that the writers have managed to evoke sympathy from me towards my two most loathed characters, only to snatch that away when they remind us how petty, jealous and vindictive both can be.

[SickBoy]

The Don-Ginsberg exchange was one of the more interesting moments in the episode. Clearly, as many have pointed out, of course Don's been thinking about Ginsberg. And of course, Ginsberg is right that Don buried his work because Don wanted the client to use his.

But other than the sheer nastiness of the slam (which may have been appropriate given Ginsberg's behavior), Don never showed his hand. Because everything Don said had a ring of truth:
- Don't like to go in with two pitches, that makes some sense
- Client bought it and that's what matters, yup.

Even some of the power play comments made by Don (i.e: "it's a good thing you work for me, then") made sense against Ginsberg's petulance.

Of course, Ginsberg was right, and Don knew it just like the audience knew it. But it's not like Ginsberg has anything to go on other than his own beliefs -- no one else batted an eye.

[CrankyJay]

Of course, Ginsberg was right, and Don knew it just like the audience knew it. But it's not like Ginsberg has anything to go on other than his own beliefs -- no one else batted an eye.

Well, Peggy had a smile on her face because I think she imagined what Don did. Ginsberg had it coming to him, he wore his excitement of besting the great Don Draper on his sleeve.

And damn, Betty is just an awful person.

[DanteFox]

dang Ginsberg got manhandled by Don in that elevator scene.

[pigeon]

- Client bought it and that's what matters, yup.

This isn't true, though, and in previous episodes, they knew it. Making a sale is a matter of pleasing the client, but holding onto an account requires your campaign to work -- sales numbers come up over and over when account men are discussing clients. I half expect Sno Ball having lackluster results from the campaign to come up in a later episode.

[BertramCooper]

I dunno, she plays an unlikeable seemingly cold or detached character in everything I see her in. Actually, I think her lack of range actually makes her kinda perfect for Betty. Just my opinion though.

Again, go back and watch that final shot. Really incredible stuff by January Jones. It might be her single most impressive moment on the show.

And please, somebody GIF it. I don't gots the skillz.

[SickBoy]

This isn't true, though, and in previous episodes, they knew it. Making a sale is a matter of pleasing the client, but holding onto an account requires your campaign to work -- sales numbers come up over and over when account men are discussing clients. I half expect Sno Ball having lackluster results from the campaign to come up in a later episode.

Fair enough, but despite the apparent consensus of viewers' reactions, I don't think it's a stinker in the Mad Men world, where everyone outside of Ginsberg found it clever/amusing and apparently the client "loved it", too. It's not going to sink the brand. It would probably seem a little contrived to see it come back to bite them in terms of the campaign tanking (maybe someone else stealing the client, which is possible... would be funny if they were stolen with Ginsberg's very idea conceived by someone at another agency).

Ginsberg and his adversarial relationship with Don is no doubt going to amplify going forward. I'd forgotten about the shoe campaign that he "unwittingly" sold earlier in the season... (in that case, I think Don was right... tit for tat?).

Anyhow, I don't mean to keep posting about it. I just think this aspect of the show has a lot of potential. It'll be interesting to watch as he gets more experienced and presumably better/bolder.

That said, I think it's time to show some Peggy success... make it clear she's still got some game, 'cause it's been a lot of struggle and frustration for her this season and unlike corner-office Don, I think we would be well-served to see some evidence of production from her :)

[Awesome Animals]

You're allowed to keep discussing this point if you want this is a mad men discussion thread after all

[BertramCooper]

I think Lane died.

[anaron]

The amount of Megan screentime over characters that actually matter this season is pissing me off. That and her permanently growing teeth.

[Salvadora]

The amount of Megan screentime over characters that actually matter this season is pissing me off. That and her permanently growing teeth.

I'd take her any day over Betty.

[anaron]

I'd take her any day over Betty.

kay.

[pigeon]

Ginsberg and his adversarial relationship with Don is no doubt going to amplify going forward. I'd forgotten about the shoe campaign that he "unwittingly" sold earlier in the season... (in that case, I think Don was right... tit for tat?). Anyhow, I don't mean to keep posting about it. I just think this aspect of the show has a lot of potential. It'll be interesting to watch as he gets more experienced and presumably better/bolder. That said, I think it's time to show some Peggy success... make it clear she's still got some game, 'cause it's been a lot of struggle and frustration for her this season and unlike corner-office Don, I think we would be well-served to see some evidence of production from her :)

Totally agree with all of this. Honestly, my biggest concern (from a purely selfish "which characters do I want to succeed" perspective) is that Ginsberg is going to overshadow Peggy -- the scene where Don notices that Peggy's name is only on one of the campaigns and Ginsberg's name is on all the rest suggests conflict to come.

[anaron]

bb Peg is being setup to quit.

[hamchan]

Ginsberg has only been exposed to this new, weak Don instead of the angry Don of old. Maybe that's why he had the balls to say "I feel bad for you" in the elevator. I was pretty surprised that he talked to his boss like that.

[Dominican Power]

I'm about to watch the Mad Men Inside The Actors Studio episode.

[Dominican Power]

I can see why John Hamm can exude sadness so well. He was very intimate with it growing up.

[Dominican Power]

The grim reality that cast divulges about filming an episode of the show is awe-inspiring.

[Socreges]

Ginsberg has only been exposed to this new, weak Don instead of the angry Don of old. Maybe that's why he had the balls to say "I feel bad for you" in the elevator. I was pretty surprised that he talked to his boss like that.

Ginsberg just doesn't give a shit. That's how he was introduced. He'd actually tamed since then, but they gave him his balls back last episode.

[Sofo]

Really enjoyed the elevator scene. Of course Don also showed his own insecurities with his Devil campaign, by leaving it in the cab, but after all he's the boss. Ginsberg acting all entitled didn't annoy me, since it was obvious it was the best ad. If I was him I'd be flattered to feel that "Big Don" thinks of me as a competitor.

Loved the line "I don't think about you at all".

Also, watching this with my partner, what's up with losing half a pound? They're not even trying! I lose half a pound by simply skipping a light dinner... What the hell?

Forgot to add, even as much as I love Megan, I laughed when Sally made fun of her about "making herself cry", haha. That was a nasty one, a true mini-Betty! I am hoping Sally will come closer to her dad's character, though, and it certainly feels that way.

[Ignatz Mouse]

This isn't true, though, and in previous episodes, they knew it. Making a sale is a matter of pleasing the client, but holding onto an account requires your campaign to work -- sales numbers come up over and over when account men are discussing clients. I half expect Sno Ball having lackluster results from the campaign to come up in a later episode.

Thios post got me thinking-- I never ever heard of this drink before. Clearly it failed. So even if Don's idea is a winner, the brand isn't.

It will be interesting if this becomes a plot point.

[LuchaShaq]

Ginsberg is such a turd in the punchbowl for this show. His presence is consistently annoying as hell.

I would have cared infinitely more if Peggy was the one with good ideas pushing Don.

Ginsberg is so annoying that I actually was happy that Don left his shit in the cab, anything that pisses off Ginsberg is fine with me.

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ginsberg is such a turd in the punchbowl for this show. His presence is consistently annoying as hell. I would have cared infinitely more if Peggy was the one with good ideas pushing Don. Ginsberg is so annoying that I actually was happy that Don left his shit in the cab, anything that pisses off Ginsberg is fine with me.

I get the feeling he won't be around for next season.

[Awesome Animals]

Thios post got me thinking-- I never ever heard of this drink before. Clearly it failed. So even if Don's idea is a winner, the brand isn't. It will be interesting if this becomes a plot point.

I've only ever seen them at concession stands. I think it is the same thing as a Slush Puppie. Hell, a rebranding could have occurred and it is the same product.

[dead souls]

I get the feeling he won't be around for next season.

I hope you're wrong. He's bringing some much needed vitality to the show.

[Ignatz Mouse]

I hope you're wrong. He's bringing some much needed vitality to the show.

I like him, but if he declares war on Don Draper he won't last.

[dead souls]

I like him, but if he declares war on Don Draper he won't last.

Agreed, but I'll miss him.

[Jeff-DSA]

Ginsberg is such a turd in the punchbowl for this show. His presence is consistently annoying as hell. I would have cared infinitely more if Peggy was the one with good ideas pushing Don. Ginsberg is so annoying that I actually was happy that Don left his shit in the cab, anything that pisses off Ginsberg is fine with me.

I think it's intentional. He's representative of the newer generation coming up that knows that they have talent but is impatient and borderline disrespectful with their ambitions. The established generation isn't quite ready for his approach or ideas, however exciting and forward thinking they may be. It's the older generation that owns the businesses and pulls the strings, and Don is making the point that you need to sell to them still.

[Dominican Power]

http://gothamist.com/2009/11/24/smog.php#photo-4

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Don will throw Ginsberg out the window.


IT'S DESTINY, DAMMIT!

[Leona Lewis]

Jimmy Barrett on SVU right now. Playing a creepy doctor.

[BertramCooper]

Season 4 is on sale for $18 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0038M...23993960_pe_b2

[AngryMoth]

Just wrapped up season 1 on Netflix. Have to say the first 5 or so episodes I really didn't get it. I can handle slow pace but this felt like no pace. Nothing was happening, I didn't really like any of the characters and just couldn't find anything interesting about the show beyond the lure of the (extremely well realised) period. But I persevered as all I've heard is praise and people standing it up next to breaking bad as one of the best shows on tv. And boy am I glad I did. About half way though the season something just clicked. I feel like I'm in almost a zen like state when I watch it. Everything aspect is just so consistently phenomenal; writing, directing, acting, you name it. And it all comes together to make an even greater sum than it's parts. The charcters are just so compelling to watch, and the dialogue is so fantastic. I don't know how I would even begin to write an episode of this show, I'm in shear admiration. It's so exciting knowing I still have 3 whole seasons to look forward to.

[psykomyko]

Just wrapped up season 1 on Netflix. Have to say the first 5 or so episodes I really didn't get it. I can handle slow pace but this felt like no pace. Nothing was happening, I didn't really like any of the characters and just couldn't find anything interesting about the show beyond the lure of the (extremely well realised) period. But I persevered as all I've heard is praise and people standing it up next to breaking bad as one of the best shows on tv. And boy am I glad I did. About half way though the season something just clicked. I feel like I'm in almost a zen like state when I watch it. Everything aspect is just so consistently phenomenal; writing, directing, acting, you name it. And it all comes together to make an even greater sum than it's parts. The charcters are just so compelling to watch, and the dialogue is so fantastic. I don't know how I would even begin to write an episode of this show, I'm in shear admiration. It's so exciting knowing I still have 3 whole seasons to look forward to.

Same here, even though I felt there was something there even at the beginning, it just didn't click. Once it started to reveal a little bit of Don's past, that's when it clicked for me.

[Krogan]

Roger sure is going through his money this season.

[Awesome Animals]

Just wrapped up season 1 on Netflix. Have to say the first 5 or so episodes I really didn't get it. I can handle slow pace but this felt like no pace. Nothing was happening, I didn't really like any of the characters and just couldn't find anything interesting about the show beyond the lure of the (extremely well realised) period. But I persevered as all I've heard is praise and people standing it up next to breaking bad as one of the best shows on tv. And boy am I glad I did. About half way though the season something just clicked. I feel like I'm in almost a zen like state when I watch it. Everything aspect is just so consistently phenomenal; writing, directing, acting, you name it. And it all comes together to make an even greater sum than it's parts. The charcters are just so compelling to watch, and the dialogue is so fantastic. I don't know how I would even begin to write an episode of this show, I'm in shear admiration. It's so exciting knowing I still have 3 whole seasons to look forward to.

four if you consider that season 5 will be done before you finish season 4!

[Foliorum Viridum]

Roger sure is going through his money this season.

Loved his quip about not carrying around so much cash.